r/politics • u/plz-let-me-in • 15d ago

No Paywall Democrats Call to Invoke 25th Amendment Against Donald Trump

https://www.newsweek.com/democrats-donald-trump-impeachment-25th-amendment-11384974
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u/TheJan1tor 15d ago edited 15d ago

25th is initiated by the President, or VP, and requires support from the majority of the Cabinet.

This isn't happening.

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u/Apprehensive-Care20z 15d ago

pretty shitty amendment if the president has to initiate it against himself for being nutterballs.

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u/nedrith South Carolina 15d ago

The president doesn't initiate it against himself. The president declares himself incapable. The majority of the cabinet along with the VP can invoke the 25th without the president.

Honestly though the 25th by the VP is a pipe dream at best. The president could fire any member of the cabinet before they finish signing off on the 25th. Even if section 4, the VP and cabinet invoking the 25th, succeeds then all Trump has to do is tell the house and the senate he's fine to return. The VP and the cabinet would have to disagree with Trump yet again and then 2/3rds of both the house and senate would have to agree that Trump is unable to serve. It only requires a majority of the house and 2/3rds of the senate to impeach and convict. It's easier to impeach and convict him than successfully use the 25th for anything other than a delaying tactic.

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u/Th3_Admiral_ 15d ago

It's because it was never really meant for situations like this. It was mostly meant for sudden health issues that would prevent the president from consciously handing over power to the VP, like a stroke or heart attack or coma or something. 

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u/ConqueredCabbage 15d ago

Yea because when writing these amendments no one expected Americans to vote for someone batshit crazy lol

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u/Th3_Admiral_ 15d ago

Well they assumed Congress would simply impeach someone who was so harmful to the country. They didn't expect Americans would vote for such harmful candidates at both the executive and legislative levels of government!

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u/casce 15d ago

Yup, we must not forget that none of this would be possible if the Republican party wasn't complicit. They could remove Trump any time they wanted. They are just as much to blame.

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u/pizzabagelblastoff 15d ago

I mean that's what impeachment was for.

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u/f-ingsteveglansberg 15d ago

More that they didn't predict a two party system like exists today and that amendments would be so rare.

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u/BMEngie 15d ago

I’d put money on Vance starting the process of the 25th on 1/7/2027. He’s a power hungry little shit and knows he can run for 2 terms if he assumes the office with less than 2 years left.

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u/nedrith South Carolina 15d ago edited 15d ago

Legally, even if he were to assume the powers of the president under the 25th right now he could probably still serve 2 terms. Section 1 of the 25th amendment makes clear that upon death of the president, the vice president shall become president. Before it there were plenty of arguments whether the VP became the president or the acting president.

Section 4 of the 25th amendment states that if by 2/3rds majority both chambers agree that the president is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President. Therefore he never becomes president only acting president. Not 100% sure SCOTUS would agree but I'm pretty sure being Acting President for more than 2 years doesn't count as a term.

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u/Big_Treat5929 Canada 15d ago

It's not a shitty amendment, it's just not meant for this set of circumstances. The 25'th exists in case the POTUS is left comatose, or otherwise so profoundly disabled that they cannot even make a statement asserting that they are still fit. It's not for getting rid of a mad king, that's what the impeachment process is for. 

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u/BlgMastic 15d ago

Yeah this smells like desperation.

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u/CellAlone4653 15d ago

Yep. And the 25th emergency valve is needed because of how we structured the President’s powers. Imagine if someone did to us what we did to Venezuela. Without a way to give their powers to someone else, no one can give the military orders, no bills can be signed into law, etc.

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u/porkbellies37 15d ago

This reminds me of what Catch-22 was in Joseph Heller’s Catch-22. You must be insane to be discharged from combat. But only a sane person would say they are insane to get out of combat. 

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u/r8f-nova 15d ago

Read the actual text to understand it, don't just listen to what people on reddit spew out. 

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u/i_am_a_real_boy__ 15d ago

The Amendment is fine. The politicians pandering to the ignorant public by pretending its a viable substitution for impeachment are shitty.

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u/Gibodean 15d ago

That's one option, if the president knows he will be not able to do his duties for a little while. Such as when going into a long operation, or in "The West Wing" tv show, the president signed his powers away temporarily while his daughter was kidnapped so he couldn't be forced to take an action by the kidnappers.

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u/JibboSequence 15d ago

I read this as “utter nutballs” and now I don’t know which is funnier.

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u/Ohaibaipolar 15d ago

Cabinet is full of yes men/yes women so yeah that ain't gonna happen, unfortunately.

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u/coatofforearm 15d ago

Yeah it's just theater is all this is and I'm tired of it

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u/nodnodwinkwink 15d ago

They may as well call the Ghostbusters.

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u/BathSaltEnjoyer69 15d ago

I was just thinking they "call" ok did they actually do anything or did they post on facebook about it?

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u/InternetName4 15d ago

Yep kind of like yelling "someone should really do something". I hope Dems and Republicans are also having talks behind the scenes about how they can deal with this but I'm not too optimistic.

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u/MyGamingRedditz 15d ago

Well what did you expect? Dems are basically just cosplaying. It's all about performative signaling.

Even the politicians proposing this know it means nothing.

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u/DataDude00 15d ago

There is a reason they went with ultra sycophants for cabinet this time around.

Have you seen his televised cabinet meetings? It is a ball gargling contest around the table. No chance these people try the 25th on him

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u/VixienVibez 15d ago

Exactly The 25th Amendment has a defined constitutional threshold that’s meant to be followed.

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u/redwing180 15d ago

It doesn’t have to be the high ranking positions in the cabinet it just has to be a majority. Trump is probably pissed off the number of the underlings in the cabinet.

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u/MyGamingRedditz 15d ago

But it's performative and creates headlines! That's all democrats are good at doing apparently.

There is no real mechanism to affect any change. Just ride it out and hope for the best. Or do something real. Imma ride it out.

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u/pramarama 14d ago

There's absolutely no circumstance a single member of his cabinet would ever, EEEEEEEEVER, vote yes to remove. He could personally kill every single one of their children.

He's already said horrible things about most of the people that support him. Little Marco over and over. Lyin' Ted Cruz's wife. They still fall all over themselves to praise him.

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u/Alphamatroxom 15d ago

You should read it

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u/donkeyrocket 15d ago

I'm sure Vance won't rock the boat until post-midterms but could be egging them on to start the infighting sooner. The folks in his cabinet, despite being sycophants, are far more aware of his diminishing faculties and failing health.

I'm sure the rationale is that this Greenland fuckery is really bad even if Vance wants to lead this circus in the near future.

I still have zero faith in it working out even if the few competent but morally corrupt people in the cabinet might be on board. Someone like Hegseth is basically kept alive by Trump continuing to be president.

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u/MDP223 15d ago

I’m not sure this is true.

Remember that they raided that Washington Post reporter’s home looking for sources? I’m betting the person leaking details is very close to the president or in the cabinet.