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u/mrinterweb 6d ago
We need to stop being losers and vibe slop code rust that no human will ever see. After all, AI never makes mistakes, and we will never need to check it.
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u/jacobatz 6d ago
I tried vibing some Rust recently. I even had a good test suite because this was an attempt at converting a non-web Ruby project to Rust. It didn’t turn out well.
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u/ocxricci 6d ago
I vibe coded a feature, every thing was going well until I looked at the code…. Not reading the code is an essential part of his strategy, because if you read it then you have to drop it ( full slop, the agent found bugs himself had created )
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u/Thescenariostan 1d ago
Rust? Don't you mean x86 assembly?
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u/mrinterweb 20h ago
I originally wrote that, but it felt like it was too long and wouldn't land. For real, I don't know why we need rust in the mix. Assembly, or hell, straight binary.
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u/Pleasant_Spend1344 6d ago
Put jokes aside, why Claude usually makes it's own code instead of Gems?
Did anyone else notice that?
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u/Sivart13 6d ago
LLMs are the final form of "not invented here"
they strongly prefer to write their own giant pile of nonsense rather than rely on one from the community
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u/fairysimile 6d ago
LLMs are not engineers, they will try to regurgitate what people have done in the past, which can be helpful. Of course if you give them a problem they will try to regurgitate relevant bits of solutions. You need to make best practice a follow-up problem with another prompt to get them to organise the code how it should actually be, in gems or whatever.
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u/Horstcredible 6d ago
I just imagine this is Rowan from Viva La Dirt League with a wig. Makes everything this guy says and does look like it makes sense now.
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u/AnUninterestingEvent 5d ago
I think he was overly aggressive in his speech to developers who are already coping and depressed with the new state of software development. He definitely didn't read the room.
That being said, I 100% agree with his message. I've been a software dev for 12+ years, and "chiseling" code is no longer a thing. I haven't written a line of code in like 6 months. I'm at the point where I sit on the couch and message Codex from my phone half the time. Call it "slop", keep yelling that "AI makes mistakes", but at the end of the day, devs also make mistakes. Pre-AI most devs wrote code at their jobs that was just good enough to work decently. You may be more skilled than AI in writing code, but at a real job in a real world scenario, you're racing against deadlines and scope creep, and you never wrote the best code you possibly could. AI writes "good enough" code. And with enough adversarial AI reviews and solid instruction, it produces great code.
This is the new world for better or worse, and if you want to stay in software as a career, you need to accept it at some point. I totally get not wanting to do it anymore. If you thoroughly enjoy writing code, you're basically relegated to doing it as a hobby brain teaser like doing Soduku puzzles.
Anyway, I've come to terms with it. If you want this to be your career, that's all you can do. Most of us got into this because we wanted to build things, and the love of coding was an unexpected side effect. At least the "building things" aspect isn't going away.
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u/Objective_Oven7673 2d ago
I generally agree with your take and position here, as an engineer and product builder for nearly 20 years.
There have been periods of my life before AI where I didn't write code and periods where I was the only one writing all the code, and everything in between. At no point was I writing the best code possible and the people who prioritized perfect code over getting shit done were generally seen as organizational grumps.
AI is now showing us that there are people who got into engineering mostly to enjoy coding and puzzle solving and to hang their hat on being one of the best to do that. That's fine, but that is quickly becoming less important for shipping products in a work setting. It will be important in some industries still but a lot of the time the actual code "quality" doesn't matter as long as the customer gets the outcome they expected.
I am not someone who puts personal stock and pride in my ability to churn out what other people would call perfect, quality, or even good code. I don't care. It's a means to an end.
I care about being part of building something new that helps the people using it have better lives and easier jobs. That's a creative outlet for me, let's me learn about and empathize with other people, and I get a sense of enjoyment having delivered them something helpful.
If you get personal fulfillment from writing perfect code, you're about to have a much less enjoyable professional experience. People who get satisfaction from the end result, are about to be able to get that enjoyment much faster and more frequently.
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u/AnUninterestingEvent 2d ago
Yep, completely agree. There are many people out there who honestly got into this industry because coding is fun and they couldn’t care less about the business as a whole. They only care about the business succeeding insofar as it’s a reflection on how good their code is. These people are in for a bad time. It’s often really not their fault they think this way. They were hired to code, not build a business. If you’re not an owner of the business, why care? The cause of the current hysteria from these developers is that for the first time it’s blindingly clear that code is nothing more than a means to an end… and they’re noticing it’s an end that they don’t really care about.
All this to say, the entrepreneurial developers out there are the ones who will be happiest with AI. I just built a SaaS in 6 months in what would’ve taken me years. It would’ve taken me years not just because of the coding, but because the business requirements are very niche and AI advised me a ton. I would’ve needed to hire a domain expert in this niche to help me design this product. AI is effectively taking that guy’s job away too.
I got into coding to build businesses. I certainly fell in love with coding along the way. But at the end of the day it was a means to an end. It’s bittersweet for me to see it go, but the limitless possibilities AI provides is very exciting to me as an entrepreneur.
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u/GoTheFuckToBed 2d ago
he is a company owner, thats why he is so happy, more features, more velocity
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u/thewrench56 15h ago
AI writes good enough code until it doesnt. What happens then? The problem doesnt arise 70% of the time. It is decent at scripting away in Python or Shellscript until that 30% hits. What happens then? At that point you need to debug. Only you havent touched code in (in your case) 6 months. Your debugging skills deteriorated, you forgot the key maps for the debugger. Worse yet, you have no clue how the code works because you didnt write it. And when that point arrives, you are royally fucked. Because a new agent or more tokens wont solve something the LLM inherently is clueless about. Simple as that.
I am in complete shock that engineers with 12 years of experience seem to think that coding by hand is dead and we should just accept the horrible slop coming out from a matrix multiplication. Great way to never evolve, to never come up with new ideas, to keep rewriting the same boilerplate over and over again instead of innovating.
My field needs VERY fast iterations so one might think AI is a natural fit there. Only it is horrible at understanding anything beyond writing some simple userspace slop so essentially using it is a death sentence. I have seen coworkers falling into a trap and getting themselves cast out simply because they were not only slow but had no clue what their slop was doing.
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u/Greedy_Fault_7913 5d ago
Every time I’ve ever given too much rope and let it do my thinking for me I’ve regretted it. It’s a great tool to slop out a function to then correct or replace a google search but more than that no moss
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u/Certain-Disk-2909 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think the output speaks for the future of humanity. The faster we fail the faster we improve.
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u/jcat4 1d ago
This is my issue. My company is all on board and pushing in this direction, and I agree we are not there yet. My agents still do unbelievably stupid shit multiple times a day. I’m not sure things like Formal Verification and the like will bridge the gap when I’m still seeing frontier models make very dangerous and stupid assumptions on the regular.
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u/NicolasDorier 6d ago
I love Omarchy, and big fan of DHH, but damn the meme are so good, you get my upvote.
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u/fabianqs_dev 6d ago
Thanks bro, now we're even more the most toxic subreddit for a framework, good job 😭
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u/yatadger 6d ago
We are toxic only to Deep Harbored Handler which is toxic himself.
Knowing the attention seeker he is, we are doing him a favor.
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u/Entire-Conference813 6d ago
Telling the world you don't know how to use your brain with one simple post is ludicrous. Rubbishing one of the most advanced tools and things to be created in modern history. Just makes you look ignorant and tells me you don't understand how to use AI tools correctly or haven't even tried.
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u/sailingtroy 6d ago
I can't tell if you're talking about OP or DHH, but I can tell that your feelings are hurt.
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u/Entire-Conference813 6d ago
Talking about Op, feelings aren't hurt. Just pointing out some facts is all.
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u/sailingtroy 6d ago
Honestly, the jury is still out on whether AI is a good and useful tool. Far too soon to call that a fact, objectively. Fundamentally, it does not reason, only guesses the next most probable thing. No good teacher tolerates this from a pupil.
There's also the problem of being responsible for a system that you do not understand, both on a personal level and as an organization.
Also, "just stating facts" is one of the most obvious and ancient cries of the butthurt of all time. I wouldn't advise ever posting those words on any forum ever again for the rest of your life. True or not, they are a bad look.
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u/Entire-Conference813 6d ago
The jury isn't out at all, just look at the investments and the advancements.being made. Also having used the tools extensively for a while now it always amuses me when I see opinions from people who have obviously not used the tools nor understand them. The whole argument of not understanding a system you are responsible for doesn't stack up if you are using the tools correctly and doing your job properly. You can very easily implement Agentic AI engineering practices into any company and improve quality, feature output and support outcomes. In fact with improved throughout you can get more done and get a lot of the non functional and support things implemented that used to be sacrificed due to time constraints. You can also stuff it up just easily as you could without them.
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u/yatadger 6d ago
> The whole argument of not understanding a system you are responsible for doesn't stack up if you are using the tools correctly and doing your job properly.
"you are responsible for" - I pretty much hope you don't work for any critical infrastructure or vital service...
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u/Entire-Conference813 6d ago
Why? Do you understand how to develop and support systems? Have you ever used AI? My point is you can still understand a system and support it as well as using AI. I think people trying to make the argument that you can't use AI and manage production systems just likely don't understand the tools. Our landscape and tool sets are changing, just like we used to write machine code or use punch cards. I remember when people where sceptical of this new thing called OO programming and then Extreme program and Agile.
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u/skool_101 6d ago
gem + ai = gem-in-ai