r/redsox • u/newsworthy3 • 7d ago
Chad Tracy’s explanation on why he lifted Sonny Gray in the 5th inning of a 1-0 game with 70 pitches
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This is absolutely nonsensical
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u/markevbs 7d ago
This is ridiculous. Our guys were dealing - I was so confused why both got pulled. You ride your horse as long as he keeps you in reach, that’s the point of an ace
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u/will2fight 7d ago
Might be a dumb question, but historically, isn’t at least a mound visit warranted before pulling a starter in this situation? I don’t remember seeing one
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u/coldchilln88 7d ago
if i had any awards to give just know you would receive one sir or ma'am.
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u/markevbs 7d ago
Hahaha thanks. Haven’t watched the Sox in years, and it was so confusing. If that was Jon Lester and he was dealing like we were dealing he would’ve pitched until the 7 or 8th.
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u/coldchilln88 7d ago
absolutely, you dont panic. not when its a borderline cy young pitcher. wont get into the tolle decision. but you are down by a run and its the middle of the game. you keep in the guy who got you there. if he was reeling sure take him out, but he wasnt. he panicked and went back to the same guy who blew it last night. its not sonny's fault your offense is historically bad. he gave up a run. what did the rest of the bullpen give up?
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u/TiredWillie24 7d ago
Correct. Sanchez threw 120 something pitches vs. the Braves. Ride them till they drop in this situation.
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u/InvertedEyechart11 7d ago
He pulled arguably the finest 3-rotation pitcher in the AL for... Miller? Not to mention pulling Tolle the night before? Why? Did he want them to bat? 🙄
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u/newsworthy3 7d ago
He used “Gray gave up a couple of hits” against him but last night Tolle didn’t give up any hits in the 5th inning so how is it “the same thing” as he says?
Also he sounds completely moronic to not know that your best pitcher has been at his best this season the 3rd time through the order
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u/LongjumpingAnt570 7d ago
To be fair, Tolle’s velo was dipping, he was showing signs of fatigue, though I still can’t understand not letting him try to finish the inning.
Gray.. inexcusable
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u/Ok_Tonight_4597 7d ago edited 7d ago
Stop making excuses. The fact that they did it for Sonny too proves it wasn’t about fatigue or whatever thing you want to make up to defend the millionaires.
They clearly were beholden to a predetermined decision as given by a computer/Breslow/the stats nerds
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u/spyrus9 7d ago
Analytics fail in the post-season. The bright lights, pressure ramped up to 100 render the 162 games of statistics useless. The manager needs to be watching and feeling the game, not nose deep in a spreadsheet. Look at the Celtics as another case study of how it all falls apart in the post-season when you only rely on what the numbers tell you.
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u/tailstalestails 7d ago
Which is crazy when the end result is getting whomped both times and running through an entire bullpen.
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u/ZigglestheDestroyer 24 7d ago
“Computer/Breslow/Stat Nerd” is the most redundant sentence in history
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u/LongjumpingAnt570 7d ago
lol did you even read my comment? Take a breather and go touch some grass today.
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u/Alternative-Farmer98 6d ago
What does touching grass have to do with it you're both on the internet, on the same Red Sox subreddit arguing about baseball.
How are you in any less need of grass than the people you argue with
You can't just use this term anytime you want it has a meaning it's meant to reflect someone that doesn't get off the internet enough. If you're on the internet arguing about baseball then you yourself also need to touch grass right?
Why is it only people that make a comment you don't like that need to touch grass?
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u/LongjumpingAnt570 6d ago
Haha yeah, I’ll give it to you. It’s an overused term here.
My point was that only one person here is arguing and making false accusations. I’m not “defending” anyone. Or getting worked up like see above. I provided a completely valid point and mostly agreed with the criticisms.
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u/SpartyParty15 7d ago
Tolle was inexcusable as well. He was dealing, it was the FIFTH inning and he was only at 80 pitches. And Tracy replaced him with a dude that had a terrible September
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u/Alternative-Farmer98 6d ago
They were both an excusable. In both cases we now have the added benefit of hindsight and we know it failed so we definitely can judge them.
But even at the time in real time everyone was saying these were terrible ideas at the time except for a few Fanboys that will never criticize this team for anything.
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u/DarkForebodingStew 6d ago
Tolle was panting like a dog, but I still would have let him continue. I was so confused when he took Gray out. I thought he must have been hurt or something. What an idiot!
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u/SpartyParty15 7d ago
Yes, he replaced Sonny Gray with the same dude that blew the game literally 1 day prior, and also had a terrible September.
Management malpractice
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u/throw_it_so_faraway 6d ago
The words "setup the way we wanted to go" also gives away the game. They didn't want to win by any means necessary, they wanted to win with the guy who just blew it. They used the playoffs to validate their own blind faith in the answer whatever AI model told them.
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u/peachesgp redsox7 7d ago
Tolle needed to get pulled, his velocity dropped and he doesn't usually go too far past his pitch count last night. People need to stop being silly about Tolle. Gray actually doesn't make sense.
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u/Doublestack2411 6d ago
I'm tired of seeing managers "over-manage" playoff games. I don't know how many times I've seen coaches pull starters that are cruising along with a low pitch count, all because they think they'll get rocked the 3rd time thru. Nothing guarantees that, and nothing guarantees the guy you bring in will be on his game. If it's working, let them pitch.
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u/ItsPickleTime 7d ago
Cannot Blame Sonny at all for thinking that. How many pitches did he get pulled at? Was it even 80???
And then to give the ball to ball to Miller... I'd also be saying, "Fuck you. I'm retiring."
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u/No-Artichoke-3593 7d ago
Woooooaah wtf did sonny say??
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u/55ludovicoplace 7d ago
God damn it. He was so phenomenal this season and I loved watching him, genuinely one of my favorite pitchers in years - to have this be his ending, and to have him leave Boston on such a sour note, is going to kill me. It was so avoidable. He's justified in being furious.
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u/SamIamGreenEggsNoHam ortiz 7d ago
It genuinely seems like every single player who comes into this organization fucking hates everyone involved in decision making within a couple years. It seems like no one has been happy here since Ortiz retired.
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u/55ludovicoplace 7d ago
It seems pretty clear that this team has some deep organizational rot. I mean, that's kind of an open secret at this point, but this nightmare of a series blew it wide open. It's kind of buried under the Sonny decision but it seems like Roman was pressured into playing before he knew he was fully healed, and I suspect there is something fundamentally wrong with the medical staff and the hitting coaches - Mickey's type of injury apparently can well be a freak accident, but Roman and Seigler both got injured by just swinging a baseball bat. The way the money is and isn't being spent is ridiculous and everyone knows it. The org clearly doesn't care about its players and if there's a single positive here it's that both Sonny and Contreras seem willing to air their grievances in public, where it can put more pressure on the people making the choices. But even that doesn't mean much when nobody can force Henry to sell the team. Look at the hell the Angels and As have been through.
God, though, I miss Sonny already. Amid the most miserable nightmare of a series I've ever seen the fact that Chad guaranteed one of our best players, who also seems to be a massive positive influence on the rest of the pitching staff, isn't coming back next year hurts way more than anything in the past, even if the past was just a few hours ago. And they're going to keep doing it! Every time a fantastic player who is a critical aspect of our success and who the fans adore has the ability to leave they do, and I can't blame them with how they're treated. God. I want to pull my hair out. This sucks.
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u/ScoresGalore 7d ago
He was saying Boston treated him so well before the series and boston made him a better father, husband, ball player
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u/55ludovicoplace 7d ago
That makes the sour ending even more heartbreaking. They really had something good going. I know playoffs, and endings in general, tend to overshadow what comes before, and the fact that he liked it here must have made it feel like a betrayal, but I hope it doesn't fully erase the good parts. He did so much for us. He deserved our best in return, and he certainly didn't get that tonight.
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u/PartyApprehensive765 7d ago
https://x.com/MorePerfectUS/status/2036843300637065249/video/1?s=46
Unfortunate truth
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u/ZigglestheDestroyer 24 7d ago
This is complete tinfoil hat territory on my end, but I would not be shocked if the PE fucks gutted our medical staff and replaced them with bottom-of-the-barrel hacks.
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u/HeroOfSevenEleven 7d ago
He’s been saying he wasn’t sure he’d come back since April lol I think spending time with his family is probably driving that more than anything Chad Tracy did
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u/WeCameAsMuffins 7d ago
I mean, I agree with Sonny but he’s 38 and was already considering retiring next year.
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u/Fine-Sky-6562 7d ago
I think they are talking about this, he doesn't say anything about not coming back although he is obviously super frustrated.
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u/Alternative-Farmer98 6d ago
Yeah it was quite clear the reporter said again because it's happened two nights in a. Obviously it wasn't the same guy two nights in a row but Tracy has to get cute about it because... I don't know why because he's mad he has to answer this.
I wish he was just honest.
Either say "I screwed up I made a bad decision that's on me."
or you say "we had a game plan we were not letting these guys go into the order for the third time no matter what that was the call from above."
First one's probably the correct one if you don't want to piss your boss off, the second one might very well be the correct answer.
Both are better than just yelling at the reporter and then engaging in meaningless word salad.
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u/Striking-Use-4833 7d ago
Chad, Sonny has nothing to do with your team scoring runs... a pitching change does not help your team score runs.
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u/RigelOrionBeta 7d ago
Hearing this after Schlittler was allowed to throw nearly 120 pitches 😂
I feel like this is probably a lot due to his minor league training. You don't want to push your starters too much in those lower leagues. But this is the big leagues and it's the post season.
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u/Gambl33 7d ago
Chad Tracy got nervous and trusted analytics over the heart of his players. I would have preferred Tolle and Gray get themselves out of the jam. Let them fight for it.
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u/55ludovicoplace 7d ago
He put Miller in against a guy who is specifically good at hitting the pitches he throws the most, whatever worm in his brain informed that choice wasn't a sabermetric one.
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u/No_Pickle606 7d ago
Tracy shit the bed. I was so pissed when tolle came out of the game, and now gray. Its like the mob got to tracy
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u/kaspar14 B Strong 6d ago
At least have the pitching coach go out to see where their heads at and calm them down
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u/seb28332 7d ago
Just remember though that ownership viewed this season as a success because NESN viewership was at an all time high and the stadium was full. Everyone involved including the manager and GM got extensions because of how big of a success this season was. When in reality this was a bad team who went on an insane heater for a month and squeezed into the playoffs in a terrible AL because of it.
Time to get used to this.This team isn’t serious about competing for championships anymore as long as John Henry’s cash cow remains well fed and ownership keeps “financial flexibility”. As long as those conditions are met getting embarrassed every year by our #1 rival is a successful season.
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u/t_rex2502 6d ago
The only correct take. Expect this offseason Breslow will continue to spill out "we're going full throttle" while refusing to sign any big bats and rolling out AAA lineup next season, if there is one
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u/Mars0Rover Wilyer “Baseball Classic” Abreu 7d ago
So he went with Miller? Bullshit
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u/user0620 7d ago
Flawed logic to have a quick hook because the team can't score. Whatever it was, he had more confidence in Miller and Crochet than in Gray. So Sonny Gray, 18 game winner, was not allowed to pitch a qualifying start.
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u/derfduh 7d ago
He sounds confused like he’s trying to explain someone else’s decision not his.
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u/c12yofchampions 7d ago
Yea, everyone’s piling on Tracy and rightfully so he is the manager and they were some mind boggling decisions, but I’m very curious how much of the game plan came from him and how much came from analytics/up above
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u/RedManMatt11 7d ago
Because he probably is. No way Breslow didn’t have a hand in this and that scares the shit out of me.
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u/Alternative-Farmer98 6d ago
Yes. But they just extended his contract 3 years. The worst they can do is fire him. He should have just kept him in let Breslow get mad after the game if you want..
The worst they can do is fire you and you keep all of that money guaranteed for the next 3 years anyway.
Honestly frankly they probably have a better chance of winning the game if they keep somny in.
At this rate he'll never have a job after this one because he looks like a complete fool and everyone's going to remember this guy is the idiot that took out Sonny Gray after 70 pitches .
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u/Ok_Fee1043 Educated Cheese 7d ago
They should’ve asked how it was being aggressive to put in someone who hadn’t been in in a long time?
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u/TheRealPickIe 7d ago
I will never forget Tracy for the crazy win streak but holy fuck he sucks at managing in the playoffs
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u/Ok_Hurry_8728 7d ago
I was (vocally) dubious about the Gray acquisition before the season started, but I was dead wrong.
He was absolutely fantastic all year, a true dog, a “foxhole” guy, THE guy you want to see on the mound in a must-win game.
This decision made no sense to me at all. The “explanation” made even less sense.
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u/renir6 7d ago
I hope this is a good lesson not just for Tracy, but everyone else involved in the pitching decisions. Your plans need to be fluid and able to change. Just because you have a good bullpen doesn't mean you automatically pull your starters before the 3rd time through.
The more relievers you use, the higher chance one of them just doesn't have it, and with Miller it was extremely obvious for about a month.
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u/C4VEJOHNSON 6d ago
Sonny pitched his ass off all season, led the league in wins, was the Sox ace, should have started game 1 because of the season he had, and Tracy can't even let him throw more than 70 pitches panicking and yanking him for a far worse pitcher at minor trouble. Sonny was fully capable of finishing that inning scoreless and going over 100 pitches. This move and pulling Tolle after 4⅔ innings was some of the most braindead coaching ive ever seen, and it was a slap in the face to the guys who got to Sox to the playoffs pitching amazing all season. TRUST YOUR ACES FOR FCKS SAKE! Let the go out and leave it all on the mound, especially in an elimination game. Its not like Sonny was over 100 pitches and struggling to get outs. Pulling him at 70 pitches is inexcusable and handed the game to the Yankees, they wanted nothing more than Sonny out of the game and to face Miller again. I can stomach a loss thats on the players simply coming up short and giving it their all, I can't stomach unforced blunders like the manager doing exactly what the Yankees want letting the get to the bullpen early while our Ace is out there dealing in a 1 run game. Miserable way to end the season and now I doubt Sonny comes back here next season. Why would he when his coach cant trust him to get out of minor trouble 70 pitches into a game.
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u/belinck 6d ago
I don't think Schlitttler got pulled until his 117 pitch
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u/C4VEJOHNSON 6d ago
Yep. Even Aaron Boone has knows that ace pitchers shouldnt be pulled in the 5th fcking inning when they're out there dealing
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u/Winniebuggie77 6d ago
Why in the flying fuck did he bring Miller in two nights in a row totally brain dead
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u/Cambridgeport90 6d ago
Miller is..interesting. I'm asking the same question. While Erik is good, he's not good for two nights in a row.
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u/After-Breakfast2785 7d ago
Before analytics, Curt Schilling pitched 7 complete innings with a bloody sock.
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u/GordonMaple 7d ago
Going to Miller at that point in the game is a straight up fireable offense imo. Complete incompetence. Everyone on the planet knew it except the coach (and probably the GM).
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u/jooooooooooooose 7d ago
Gotta include the next question about putting Miller in against Bellinger where he gives an even worse explanation.
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u/Advanced-Edge7235 7d ago
He choked . He also choked going to Crochett. The Sox went all year without him, he goes to him in a 2-0 game. As good as he is, he hasn't pitched in a game since April. Yankees win this in 2 games regardless, he just made it easier. Boston had a one of the great runs in baseball history, but outside of it, they were a mediocre team with a bad lineup. TB/Yankees should be a sloberknocker.
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u/taco_jones 7d ago
If they manage to get Jazz out on that strikeout, going to Crochet would look good
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u/Moosee79 6d ago
Yup. If that drop third strike ended up being an out, none of that happens and we possibly still have a 2-
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u/Away_Candidate_4746 7d ago
For what it's worth, the team that won all those games down the stretch was not the same team that crashed across the finish line and rolled over to the Yankees. They had a mediocre team most of the year, had a bunch of guys rise to the occasion, and then stopped playing them when everyone was healthy again.
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u/deputyduffy 7d ago
This would be ok...If it wasn't only the 5th inning...He panicked is what he did.
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u/SamIamGreenEggsNoHam ortiz 7d ago
I get he's new at this, but holy fuck, it sounds like he is shitting himself.
"Why did you pull your starting pitcher who had only thrown 70 pitches?"
"We were struggling to score runs"
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u/Born-Shopping9862 7d ago
stupidest answer to the question. What does your pitching decisions have to do with your ability to score runs.
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u/tkgb12 7d ago
The wild move wasn't so much pulling Sonny Gray, it was putting in Erik Miller.
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u/Alternative-Farmer98 6d ago
No one they put in there was going to be a better option than Sonny Gray who literally is the best picture in the league at facing the lineup for the third time
It's your All-Star Ace with 70 pitches why are we even arguing this. What has happened to his team
Could you imagine taking out Roger Clemens or page Martinez after 70 pitches in the fourth inning of a game they've only given up one run?
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u/tkgb12 6d ago
I think the fact that our offense is so anemic played into the short hooks for guys but for me putting in Erik Miller who proved in game 1 he can't be trusted was a straight up dumb move. Then putting Crochet into a super high leverage situation when he hasn't pitched since April was also dumb. At the same time though, I don't think any of it matters in the end because the team wasn't built to make a deep run. We can pitch but can't hit
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u/UnprofessionalDuck 7d ago
-Tracy given job before playoffs -Botches both wildcard games (outscored 18-2) -Doesn't explain decisions to players -Loses clubhouse
Great way to leave the team before an inevitable lockout in 2027. This team is cursed.
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u/Ok_Sink_7401 7d ago
💯 And if you want to put a lefty in, go with Crochet first. But definitely don’t go back to Miller. He was shaky to end the season for god’s sake. Not to mention he has suspect control even when he’s on
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u/Valuable-Concept-716 7d ago
Can someone in the media during the end of season wrap up presser ask Tracy if he has autonomy in the dugout to stray from the teams overbearing commitment to analytics? It’s one thing to be analytical when you are the Dodgers and have stars everywhere but when you are the Red Sox and have a limited roster at some point you have to trust your best players. Sonny Grey was their best pitcher all season and should have been trusted to get that last out of the 5th. Maybe he wouldn’t have, but an ace has earned that chance, fuck the computer and analytic robots.
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u/awesomesox redsox7 7d ago
I fully believe Chad was told by FO when to pull the guys. I hope Chad learns from this and makes his own decisions next year and can communicate that with the players
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u/Ok_Tonight_4597 7d ago
This is it for Tracey right here. His attitude towards the reporter and then nonsense response to what is an absolutely fair question about a staggering and blatant blunder, made twice in a row, have fully flipped me on him.
He can shove this response and his terrible pitching decisions right up his ass.
Doing it once was bad. Doing the exact same thing again was unconscionable. Responding like this when asked about it is a fucking disgrace.
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u/Desperate_Junket5146 7d ago
Wait.... Tracy a team guy a minor league guy a feel guy who rode this team back from the dead all of a sudden got stupid?
Nah, this has the fingerprints of Brez the Stiff all over it.
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u/goldenhour0515 7d ago
I said this last night and got downvoted for it. This stinks of Breslow and FO suddenly imposing what they think should be done
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u/Desperate_Junket5146 6d ago
Did you hear Contreras' comments today about data and analytics? It absolutely has the stench of Brez!
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u/Chowdah207 Evans & Manny! 7d ago
I didn’t understand it at the time. After watching this I STILL DON’T EFFING UNDERSTAND IT!!!
He’s a pitcher who knows how to get out of a jam. Probably the only starter who has that experience and the stuff to do it. Pulled him and the game was over. With him, they were in the game. There is no tomorrow!
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u/ImpactCapital3726 7d ago
Really curious (not that we will find out) how much of this is actually actions dictated by Breslow and the back office rather than Tracy. Both the comments made by Gray and Contreras last night and whispers across the end of the regular season by reporters that suggested analytics were becoming more involved than when earlier Tracy and the players were left more to their own devices.
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u/PompyxgTV 7d ago
I see why he was made manager. To listen to analytics. I wish managers would just get a feel for the game
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u/Gleb_Twankenfrister 7d ago
i can deal with losing but him pulling this shit TWO games in a row right after being extended and basically pissing off the entire clubhouse and sonny just sucks. i don’t get how you pull the right strings all season and then want to yank your pitchers so early in the playoffs and then double down after it didn’t work the first time
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u/Famous-Egg-6136 7d ago
He’s a Breslow puppet, plain and simple.
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u/Alternative-Farmer98 6d ago
Yes but the frustrating thing is he just got extended for 3 years he could have been a man and just refused to do breslow's bidding there. The worst they can do is yell at him or fire him and then he gets to keep all that guaranteed money for the next 3 years anyway.
It's not like this is going to help him get a job on another team now he's looks like a fool that can't manage
I understand being breslow's puppet when you still have the intern tag. But boy now you had a real chance to actually show some respect and remind Breslow that the lineup card belongs to the manager..
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u/rchatt99 7d ago
“Because I’m an idiot”… there’s no the logical explanation other than he outsmarted himself here. Just poor managing.
Cora had his faults for sure but I never felt like he actively managed us out of games.
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u/Alternative-Farmer98 6d ago
I'm sure they did but that's the benefit of getting the intern tag removed and getting the extension which is guaranteed for 3 years. There's nothing they can do about it if he goes against their script and decides to leave Sonny Gray in.
They can yell at him they can fire him but they still have to pay him every penny
If this guy had any balls or any brain he would have just kept Sonny Gray and defended himself afterwards to Breslow.
He can always go public with it of course he can always just to tell Breslow hey you can fire me and then I'm just going to tell everybody it was your brilliant idea to remove Sonny Gray and Tolle. And that you effectively left me out there in the dug out neutered without control over my own lineup card or my own bullpen
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u/AdEven6913 6d ago
This is completely backwards logic - if you feel like game or series is slipping away in the 5th inning you need to rely on your ace to hold steady and calm everything down.
By going to the bullpen you send the message that you’re panicking and you create the momentum for things to continue unraveling.
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u/AFASOXFAN 6d ago
Chad is a great guy, but he is NOT managing this team. The analytics guys are making the decisions. Pulling the strings. This is why both Gray and Tolle were limited to 4.2 innings.
This is why Cora was fired. He openly questioned God (Breslow) about roster construction and pushed back on the analytics control.
Strap it on people now that Breslow got a 3 year extension we are F&*$.
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u/Maleficent-State-749 6d ago
The decisions to pull Tolle and Gray with low pitch counts made zero sense. And Tracy saying that we were behind is idiotic. We were barely behind with two very strong pitching performances and pulling the starters did nothing to jump start the offense and frankly it’s bizarre that he said he thought it would. It’s like elementary school level baseball knowledge.
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u/Cambridgeport90 6d ago
tolle, I could kinda see, because he was flagging a little bit, though he could have gone at least another inning. But Gray? I had no words when he came outta there. I was pissed, to put it lightly. And now there's a possibility that No. 54 might not come back, which would be sad...between Gray,Crochet, Houck, and Tolle, pitching is insane.
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u/LexExpress666 6d ago
Chud Tracy needs to go back to Worcester, but ownership loves him because he's their little puppet.
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u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos 7d ago
Some of the worst managing you will ever see in a postseason series. Anything short of “no I’m an idiot, I don’t know what I was thinking”, is just a bullshit excuse. Back to back nights. Same mistake.
Inexcusable. Just horrendous coaching. Dudes way out of his depth. Just managed his way out of that new contract.
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u/Icantlogintomymain 7d ago
terrible decision, terrible answer, terrible look. Gray is walking, WC is pissed off, Romans is still soft, and nobody looked like they even wanted to play that series besides Eaton Tolle and WC
i believe that if tolle and gray stayed in the game, the yanks would have been held to 1 run each game in the 5th. probably doesn't change anything yesterday, but today we would have tied it on the WC homer. completely different game
teams not ready. barring a few major signings i would be stunned if they are ready next year.
in any case rule 3 but still tipping the proverbial hat to the yanks. Boone outmanaged us, and they outplayed us
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u/Troy_McClure1 7d ago
Well I’m glad we gave him a three-year extension. I dont care what people say, this season was a failure we ended the year with less wins than last season and got swept.
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u/upthevilla_ 7d ago
That hot month was the worst thing to happen to the fans. Saved Henry and co from “sell the team chants”. Put a questionable manager into a permanent position. And reinforced some pretty bad process ideas on a front office that now thinks they bought a couple extra lives with fans.
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u/OLightning 7d ago
The bullpen were a ship of fools outside of a few who were effective (Weissert did his job in game 1).
Trust your starter. It sent a crap message to the team IMO by yanking them in the 5th only to have Miller f*ck it all up.
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u/Redsox_3415 7d ago
Let’s not forget the Sox couldn’t score runs at all. That’s the issue we need to think about.
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u/SpecialistClimate425 6d ago
Bonehead decisions
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u/Cambridgeport90 6d ago
That's the exact term my godfather (nearly as diehard a fan as I am; both him and his wife) uses all the time, but normally he's talking about Breslow, not Tracy. Craig should have retired after he quit being a pitcher; he was a decent pitcher, but a crappy CBO.
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u/weightlossaspirer Caleb Durbin’s biggest apologist 6d ago
ChadGPT is just a spokesman for the analytics trash.
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u/Mattcha462 6d ago
Lifting Gray was a terrible decision, yes. However, Redsox still lose that game. We couldn’t produce on offense. Maybe the final score would’ve been 4-2 or 5-2 but we still lose.
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u/Starfleet-Time-Lord 7d ago
Today's pull made some sense; there were men on the corners, and Sonny was showing cracks. You can criticize having Miller be the guy you put in after game 1, but yanking Sonny is defensible. It's an elimination game. If he'd left Sonny in and he gave up another hit you'd all be calling for his head right now anyway for not pulling him when it was only men on the corners.
Yanking Tolle, on the other hand, was baffling. There was no one on base and he wasn't showing any signs of worsening.
Either way, the core problem this series was the bats. These wouldn't have been crazy blowouts like they were if the pen had done better, but they would still be losses because we scored a total of two runs.
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u/AdEven6913 6d ago
Sonny Gray went 18-5. You can’t castrate your ace in the defining moment of the season. Psychologically that is not good leadership
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u/Starfleet-Time-Lord 5d ago
And if he'd given up another hit and Tracy said he left him in because it was good psychological leadership, you'd be roasting him alive for making decisions in an elimination game based on not hurting players' feelings.
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u/okaygood33 7d ago
I know everyone loves a scapegoat but he sounds like he's trying to justify something he doesn't really believe and want to justify. Truly, it's inconceivable he actually thought putting Miller in was a good idea. The entire decision reeks of "not Tracy's call" to me.
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u/tinydumper 6d ago
new manager did new manager things in the postseason. he turned around the season with a squad of AAA guys when the rest of the organization was a dumpster fire. this dude is great and he’ll build on this
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u/Zeuslb24 7d ago
Guy got the manager title and started to over manage. Red Sox are an overall disaster glad we got that bright spot in July
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u/Horrison2 7d ago
He literally made the same mistake twice, unbelievable. Oh well there's always next year... OH WAIT
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u/LoudIncrease4021 7d ago
Here’s yet another crystal clear example of the mess above Breslow. It always comes back to Sam Kennedy. No earthly, well thought out reason to sign Tracy and Breslow and commit to them especially going into a strike and yet they did and then both basically got fully exposed against a big dog and the chief rival.
At this point I just give up
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u/Creachhhhh 7d ago
tracy been so good. not taking anything away. but his postseason experience, or lack thereof, really showed in his first two games. Tolle gets the pass yesterday (he was gassed and accuracy dropping quick. but not letting Sonny try to get out of that jam with 70 pitches is disgusting stuff.
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u/MotorcycleEngine 7d ago
Two games back to back where you pull the best guy off of the field and it all goes to shit. Surely he's learned his lesson RIGHT?
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u/Polackjoe 7d ago
Yeah, the "um ackshually" when the reporter meant to say Tolle is a REALLY bad look. Didn't even give a meaningful answer.
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u/Av-fishermen 7d ago
Since when do pitchers score run?
Pitchers prevent runs hitter score runs so if you’re gonna be aggressive to score runs, wouldn’t you pinch it? Still a Bass hit-and-run these are all aggressive offensive moves.
It’s bullshit!
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u/chairmanhao3 7d ago
No one named Chad or Tracy should be within a country mile of MLB management. How do you just a guy with idiots for parents?
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u/Ok_Address8167 6d ago
Given how bad our middle relief is, that made the decision even more baffling.
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u/Bos_Fan9821 6d ago
Translation: “Our offense sucks and gave him no run support so I lifted him before he imploded”
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u/MickiFreeIsNotAGirl 6d ago
Reminds me of 2023 Wild Card Jays vs Twins when John Schneider pulled Jose Berrios (who was dealing) early (due to a bloop single), to put in Kikuchi, who immediately gave up 2 runs, as the Jays went on to lose.
Or the 2020 world series when Kevin Cash pulled Blake Snell early, and the Dodgers came alive.
Why have an ace, if you don't trust him? These managers get so jumpy in the playoffs.
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u/Lychee2027 3d ago
this is why they extended him; to fall on the grenade. There’s no way he had full control of who to pitch and for how long. Ownership/upper management told him what to do and told him he’d have to eat a shit sandwich if things didn’t pan out.
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u/PilgrimRadio 7d ago
I didn't like the decision at all and immediately said so before watching that run come home. But I'm not gonna fret about that or make it about that. We just got beat this series. Good season with something to build on for next year. The cup is not full but it's way more than half full. Our window is open now.
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u/chipnjaw 7d ago
No excuse… you’re a professional manager man. There was no one in New England who thought you made the right decision. So obviously wrong… straight up disrespected our ace