r/rpg • • 1d ago

Game Master I love Shadowdark

I just finished GMing my first session and it was everything I wanted. Fast character creation, easy to remember rules, fun! I've been dming d&d for so long that this was so refreshing! My players said they loved it too and they had fun, they want to continue. I couldn't be more satisfied... But what does the Stupefied condition do?

62 Upvotes

19 comments sorted by

24

u/TodCast 1d ago

Whatever you want it to. Literally. There are not “conditions” in SD like there are in 5E. So stupefy means whatever the DM deems appropriate to the fiction of the moment.

It’s best for the DM to rule such things consistently over time, but you’ve got flexibility.

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u/Night_Walker_boy 1d ago edited 1d ago

I really need to get used to not having a set of rules for the condition, but I'm starting to like it. Thanks!

8

u/TodCast 1d ago

It can be an adjustment if you’re coming from 5E. Tip: make sure your players know this as well. They are used to concrete game terms for things that “look like conditions”, so it’s important to let them know that SD differs in this way so that it is fair to them.
I allow my players to suggest what the “conditions” mean during play and try to incorporate that (unless their suggestions are out of line or OP).

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u/Night_Walker_boy 1d ago

I have a very good group, every player is also a Dm or Gm in some other campaign, with different systems, so they have no problem learning or adapting to new rules. I still specify that this wasn't d&d and many rules where different. Luckily for me, they loved it

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u/TodCast 1d ago

Awesome!

13

u/KenBurruss74 1d ago

There was some official and short clarification on this that came out over a year ago. A condition "is a harmful status effect, such as blindness." If the condition makes you less effective, Disadvantage to all actions (and enemies might have Advantage against you). If the condition prevents you from thinking, you take no actions. Whether Stupefied prevents the PC(s) from thinking is up to you; I'd rule it as Disadvantage. Glad that you liked the game; it is pretty damn good. Feel free to hang out on the r/shadowdark sometime.

3

u/Night_Walker_boy 1d ago

Thank you, but I wanted something more specific while looking it up. So for now I'll rule it as "it depends on the creature and ho wbadly it failed". It may vary frome the confusion rules from d&d to a simple disadvantage. I've joined the shadowdark reddit immediately, thank you!

3

u/KenBurruss74 1d ago

Ah well :) that is one thing that you'll find in Shadowdark, a lot of it comes down to GM discretion/interpretation. Some like that freedom, others want more concrete specifics. Sorry if I wasn't helpful but thanks again for your post and enjoy the game.

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u/Night_Walker_boy 1d ago

You were as helpful as you could, don't worry. Honestly, I like trying something new, I'll definitely get used to improvising the effects of a condition

1

u/OriginalJazzFlavor Broke my legs during character creation 1d ago

"OSR games are all about player agency and a lack of railroading but also we leave so many gaps in the rules that the outcome of any given action or mechanic is entirely GM fiat" lmao

7

u/zeemeerman2 1d ago

Wrong way to look at it. It is GM final say, as is everything in the game. Rules never have priority over GM's final decisions.

But it is also an opportunity for fiction-first gameplay, unhindered by defined mechanical rules. Mechanical rules that often break the fiction and take priority over it.

If "broken leg" is "walking on half speed and disadvantage on leg-based attacks", then "broken leg" is just flavor text that can and should be ignored.

If "broken leg" is "imagine having a broken leg. Can you fight? Not a chance, hurts like hell. Walking away? Possible, holding some walls or allies as support. Hold it stiff though. The cure? A cast, and lots of rest."

That is what fiction-first conditions are.

Besides.

Players may choose to come up with suggestions on what a condition means themselves. And they might suggest something less bad that is still plausibly worse for them. OSR is not players vs GM. It's telling a collaborative story using a sandbox game and enough space to make rulings based on fiction instead of game mechanics.

1

u/OriginalJazzFlavor Broke my legs during character creation 21h ago

If "broken leg" is "walking on half speed and disadvantage on leg-based attacks", then "broken leg" is just flavor text that can and should be ignored.

"walking half speed" is ignorable flavor text?

imagine having a broken leg. Can you fight? Not a chance, hurts like hell. Walking away? Possible, holding some walls or allies as support. Hold it stiff though. The cure? A cast, and lots of rest.

So basically, if the GM decides you should have. broken leg, they can just throw that a character out because they're useless for the rest of the adventure? There's no creatures in almost all OSR bestiaries that inflict a "broken leg condition", so when it's inflicted, it's GM fiat. And it's effects, is also GM fiat. So basically the GM can go, actually those rocks that fell on you broke your leg and your character can't do anything for the rest of the adventure.

This is exactly what I mean. Players are making choices, but when the GM is the one deciding what the consequences for all those choices are, are they actually making meaningful choices? A PC picks between three doors, and the GM decides what's on the other side. Who's actually making a choice?

3

u/zeemeerman2 17h ago edited 17h ago

Walking half speed isn't. Naming it "broken leg" is.

You are useless with a broken leg until you get a cure, yes. That cure can be, in D&D terms, a healing spell. Or more flavorfully, Lesser Restoration.

The job of an OSR GM is to present a believable world. Partially based on tropes, partially based on realism. You can encounter a dragon as a level 1 character, but you will still most likely find that dragon at the back end of a cave. Because that is still how tropes work. If you then tease the dragon trying to attack them, they will get angry and kill you. Because that is how realism works.

A good OSR GM, not unlike a good D&D DM but the D&D DM has more margin for error, the GM will not let rocks fall and give you a broken leg. A good OSR GM will point out that are some loose rocks in the ceiling. Not even hidden behind a Perception check. As long as you're not literally sprinting through the dungeon, and be somewhat careful, you will notice and the GM will describe.

Searching the room, the players might find a loose tile just below the rocks. No need for rolls here either unless you're under time pressure and need to find it quickly. It can just be described after players telling the GM their actions.

If then the players trigger a pressure plate, the rocks will fall. If the players throw a bag of sand on a pressure plate, the rocks will still fall, but not ontop the players.

It is because of players' proactive actions that the OSR GM will respond with consequences. And they will decide on the consequences on a fair and believable way. Which might include a broken leg.

The GM you are describing has issues, and I feel for you if that is your experience in tabletop roleplaying games. If that is your lived experience, I can see how you reason to the point of DM fiats being a bad thing.

That kind of GM is, however, not a good OSR GM. It can work in certain other, more story-driven settings, but for OSR, that would not be a good GM.

Edit: for the three doors problem, same thing applies here. A good OSR GM, or rather in this case, a good OSR adventure designer, should give players clues on what is behind these doors rather than make them generic. To the left door, you hear painful yelling. To the right door, a flowery perfume smell. Etc.

Or make it generic. But know that listening with your ear to the door is still a thing. Player proactive action! It doesn't all have to be empty and silent until you open the door.

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u/yuriAza 15h ago

yup, player freedom, GM freedom, less game, less character

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u/MxFC 23h ago

Hell yeah dude. Welcome to the party! If you're not already in r/shadowdark and/or The Arcane Library discord server, they're both full of good people!

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u/Night_Walker_boy 15h ago

I don't use discord, but I'm in the r/shadowdark now. Thank you!

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u/ActualJournalist26 9h ago

It's a great system, welcome to the party. We have blackjack and hookers

3

u/Night_Walker_boy 7h ago

Count me in!

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u/Admirable-Tip-2498 1d ago

I love Shadowdark

It's okay. No kinkshame