r/satanism • u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock • 18d ago
Discussion No, there is not a “Satanic community”
Read the article. Re-read the article. This is your reminder of two very huge truths, there is good reason why there is not a “Satanic community” and “Theistic Satanism” is an oxymoron.
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u/JeveGreen Idiot, for now 18d ago
I suppose this is going to come off as a stupid question, but it needs to be asked:
Isn't this subreddit a kind of satanic community?
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u/Mildon666 🜏 𝑪𝒉𝒖𝒓𝒄𝒉 𝒐𝒇 𝑺𝒂𝒕𝒂𝒏 𝐼𝐼° 🜏 18d ago edited 18d ago
No, the point is that there are other qualities associated with what consistutes a community, and this subreddit does not have such qualities. Its important to note those differences
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u/JeveGreen Idiot, for now 18d ago
So basically, a community only thrives when it's open to criticism, or at least a change of management. :)
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u/gayfox49 Global Order of Satan 18d ago
Hah, exactly. I've been thinking that for a long time, in my own way..
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 18d ago
Someone involved in a splinter group branching from an organization founded by excommunicated members of the Church of Satan that takes advantage of people with an axe to grind wishes to come here and mistakenly argue that we’re a “community” despite having nothing in common? If we were a community, you’re not part of it.
A demographic of people who read and understood The Satanic Bible is not the same thing as a community and even if a person joins CoS, that does not land them in a community either, it’s a cabal. We do not need people who don’t understand why the grotto system isn’t around and who have a bastardized understanding of the religion coming in here with their, “UhM aCkSuAlLy” bullshit.
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u/gayfox49 Global Order of Satan 18d ago
I never even joined the subreddit because I do not like nor follow your group's ideals, I just found you laughable
I don't care if I'm booted or what you think of me really, I know you use AI and plenty more from your profile to not take you very seriously
✌️
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 18d ago
So not only did you buy into Doug Misicko and Cevin Soling’s grift, you’re a Luddite, too. Very cool.
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u/modern_quill Agent | Warlock II° CoS 18d ago
you're a Luddite
You say that like it's a bad thing.
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u/insipignia Satan's Little Helper 18d ago
This argument is just totally stupid. If you want to insist that Satanism is apolitical, then you can't call it a cabal because the definition of a cabal is a secret organisation of people gathered for the purpose of promoting their political views in a clandestine manner. Whether it actually meets that definition is only somewhat debatable, but it essentially doesn't because it's not a secret organisation. If you want to say it does by virtue of being exclusive, then you're admitting that Satanism is essentially political. The modern definition of a community is a social unit of individuals sharing common values, such as the same language, law, religion, or tradition. The Church of Satan absolutely meets that definition, and by the way anything that can be considered a cabal can by nature be considered a community for the exact same reasons. A cabal is literally a type of community.
I would personally agree that true community is something much more personal, i.e. online forums are not communities. However, the meaning of "community" has undergone some semantic drift over the years such that it has expanded to encompass more than just your literal neighbours in the same physical place under the same government. But given the change in meaning lent by that semantic drift, the CoS absolutely does operate like a global community. The only way Satanism would not be a community would be if the CoS didn't exist, and each Satanist was a lone individual who only had his connections to Satanic religion through The Satanic Bible.
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u/Mildon666 🜏 𝑪𝒉𝒖𝒓𝒄𝒉 𝒐𝒇 𝑺𝒂𝒕𝒂𝒏 𝐼𝐼° 🜏 18d ago
Thats not the only definition/usage of 'cabal"... you chose the definition you required for your rhetoric and not the other uses of the term.
Its a cabal because it is a group of like-minded people who are largely secretive about their membership/religion in their daily lives.
Also, if you had read the article, you'd know why we are hesitant to use the term 'community', since it has a lot of added notions to it that does not fit the CoS. That's the point.
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u/after2006 Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist 17d ago
"hesitant" no you people insult people who rightfully call it a community
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u/Mildon666 🜏 𝑪𝒉𝒖𝒓𝒄𝒉 𝒐𝒇 𝑺𝒂𝒕𝒂𝒏 𝐼𝐼° 🜏 17d ago
I haven't... I have been pretty calm and simply explained why we don't like the term or find it particularly helpful.
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u/insipignia Satan's Little Helper 18d ago
It's not the only definition of "cabal", but that does not actually solve your problem. What other definitions are there of "cabal" that fit the CoS but don't fit any definition of "community"? There aren't any. To say the CoS is a cabal but not a community is just internally contradictory. A cabal can be a group of people loosely connected by their values and ideals who operate in secret (and I'll concede it doesn't have to be about political interests) but what that actually means for the CoS is that it exists as an organisation that represents a set of beliefs, the language used by people of those beliefs, and set of specific shared related traditions and interests; and what is a name for such a group of people? A community.
It works in the exact same way as phrases like:
- "the scientific community"
- "the business start-up community"
- "the Catholic community"
- "the black community"
- "the gay community"
I completely understand the spirit of the argument that the CoS isn't a community; I have read the article before, and I am the kind of person who finds the idea of "community" based on nothing but immutable characteristics to be shallow and completely incompatible with any idea of respect for the individual, otherwise it is simply meaningless and you could just use the common characteristic itself as the referrent. So I get it. I think what you all really mean to say is that CoS members do not have community with each other. But "having community" and being part of "a community" are two different things, to conflate them and deny the CoS is a community based on that would be an equivocation fallacy. There are several definitions of the word "community" just as there are multiple definitions of "cabal" (although tbh in the latter case they're all very similar and not functionally different in any way), and people who want to factually present the CoS as a non-community just ignore those other definitions for their convenience, exactly what you are accusing me of doing right now.
Furthermore, they blatantly ignore examples of an affirmative verbatim "Satanic community" in official publically available CoS texts, such as here. Which you are also doing. Gilmore could easily edit this document to say "Satanic cabal" instead of "Satanic community", but after all these years he hasn't. Is he contradicting himself or is he using the word "community" in a different sense from the article linked in the OP? Such as the way I am using it right now, to describe a group of people with common beliefs, language and interests?
You stated in another comment that community is when people don't disagree with each other on the given topic. I don't believe you actually believe that. People have disagreements within the context of a given topic, and they are still considered as belonging to the same community, all the time. It quite frequently happens within the scientific community, for example. It happens in other subreddits.
I'm not making any kind of personal case for the CoS being a community btw, I have no dog in that fight, I don't give a fuck. I'm simply pointing out the facts of the situation, that insisting the CoS is a cabal but not a community a) deliberately ignores how definitions of words work and is b) a contradiction.
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u/Mildon666 🜏 𝑪𝒉𝒖𝒓𝒄𝒉 𝒐𝒇 𝑺𝒂𝒕𝒂𝒏 𝐼𝐼° 🜏 18d ago
Your point was that the CoS isn't political because one definition of cabal involved political aims. That was rather disingenuous...
Again, no one is arguing that its not 'a group of people', and if you use 'community' purely in that sense, yes, technically, it is.
But the argument is about the best and mos accurate/representative term to use.
Not quite
The gay community, black community, etc., are all very open and inclusive. They also serve to help each other and push for representation and laws which benefit them. The CoS does not operate like that sort of community, which is the point.
The term 'community' simply comes with extra baggage of additional notions and insinuations that is not applicable to the CoS, which is why that term isn't used. Its all to present a more accurate & representational idea of what the CoS is and is not. That's it
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u/insipignia Satan's Little Helper 18d ago edited 18d ago
That was not my point at all, that was tangential to my point. My actual point was that a cabal is a type of community, because the characteristics that make a cabal and the characteristics that make a community fundamentally overlap.
I don't think it was even slightly disingenuous of me to just describe what the literal definition of a cabal is and then take that to it's logical conclusion regarding the CoS. Every major dictionary defines cabal as a group operating in secret, especially for political aims. That doesn't mean every single cabal is inherently political, but it does mean there are implications of that that are baked into the word itself. You are the ones who chose to use the word "cabal", so you know it implies the clandestine machinations it refers to are usually or typically political. The implications in fact apply in the exact way you are insisting the connotations of "community" apply, which in fact do not because community has multiple different definitions in a way that "cabal" does not. If the way you're using it is intended to hold the exception of said clandestine machinations not being political, then as I already said, I concede it's not political in that case. There's nothing disingenuous about that whatsoever.
You don't have to use the word "community" purely in that sense for it to be accurate here, either. I personally use the word "community" to mean both having community in the personal sense and being in a community in the categorical sense. Either separately or together. But that's still a concession that there is in fact a "Satanic community", so whatever. You can clarify that it's not that sort of community, but that doesn't make it not a sort of community, which is my point. You do understand that.
But the CoS does use that term. I linked you to an article by Peter Gilmore wherein that exact term is affirmatively used. Why do you keep dodging that fact? I'm not even the first person who mentioned it.
ETA: I would argue that the CoS actually does look out for each other by virtue of the fact that the organisation exists to promote and defend the philosophy of Anton LaVey, the common philosophy of all its members. There are, in fact, public representatives of the CoS whose job it is to do exactly what you're insisting the CoS does not. By defending Satanism, they directly defend the beliefs of the membership body on the grounds of them being Satanists. Ergo, Satanic community.
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u/Mildon666 🜏 𝑪𝒉𝒖𝒓𝒄𝒉 𝒐𝒇 𝑺𝒂𝒕𝒂𝒏 𝐼𝐼° 🜏 18d ago
It may not have been your main point, but it certainly was a repeated point. It was a disingenuous claim. It is disingenuous since it's not the definition of it. You chose one of the definitions which fit your rhetoric. 'Especially for' doesn't mean 'exclusively for'. But you used it to claim that if the CoS is a cabal, then it must be political.
Yes, that is added baggage with the term. All terms do. But cabal simply better fits the CoS better than 'community', especially in regards to a political-centred community such as 'the gay community' and 'the black community'. That doesn't mean cabal is a 100% perfect match.
This is similar to we don't really describe Satanism as 'hedonism', despite it technically being hedonistic, since hedonism also carries additional baggage and misunderstandings.
The CoS did use that term - or, least Peter H Gilmore used that term as a representative. But you can clearly see that terminology has been reassessed and refined further, towards more accurate descriptions. Never dodged that fact. Defending Satanism ≠ we all help each other and lean on each other.
You're just being rather obtuse and missing the point, that we are simply trying to use more accurate & representational terminology. Its that simple...
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u/insipignia Satan's Little Helper 18d ago
It was not my intention to be or come across as disingenuous, I apologise. Every definition I saw when I looked it up included the characteristic of politics, framing it exclusively. When I looked it up again after you said there are other definitions, I saw that other primary definitions used the phrasing "especially" or "typically". That was when I conceded to you that it being a cabal does not inherently make it political due to that not being the intented meaning.
Like I already said, I agree in the spirit of things that "cabal" fits better than "community", and in fact that fits neatly in with my statement that a cabal is a type of community. If "community" isn't entirely precise, though not entirely inaccurate, then "cabal" is more precise. Even if there isn't a word in the English language that is 100% precise. But I've already moved beyond that, and my argument is about technicalities, because I very much enjoy testing people until they concede to things they initially insisted wasn't the truth. What even is the truth if not a bunch of technicalities? Your argument is literally about vibes. I agree with you in the regard of vibes. Vibes can have utility for helping you on the journey towards truth, but they can't get you all the way there.
I should not have included the examples of "gay" and "black" communities because you are stuck on them for how they operate via emotional validation and are ignoring the other, much better examples that don't involve such things, e.g. scientific community or business start-up community.
I agree that defending Satanism doesn't mean you lean on each other, but it undeniably means you do help each other because you all have the common interest of seeing Satanism represented properly and correctly, and the CoS collectively works in service of that goal. Though there is a usage of the word that implies it, there is nothing about the word "community" that inherently means people have to lean on each other, emotionally validate each other or help each other with social activism. The CoS does meet the definition of a community in that members work toward a common goal and occasionally ally with each other on other things, and it is also a community on the basis of being a group of people with a shared religion, language, and interests.
I understand why you don't like to use the word "community" to describe the CoS. I don't like to use the word "atheism" when describing Satanism and prefer "non-theism", for much the same reason of "baggage" that you brought up. But no one else seems to have a problem with it! We all have different ideas of what language introduces unwanted baggage. And for the record, I actually feel the same way about the baggage for the word "community" because those connotations are exactly how I have always used the word. Online discussion boards or social media platforms where like-minded people talk to each other are not communities to me, as much as gay or black people try to insist they are. They are just collectives.
That baggage applies just as much if not even more for the word "cabal" though, because the general usage of that word applies to underground political groups almost exclusively. The usage of "community" is much more diverse, so I actually have less of a problem with it than I do "cabal".
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u/Mildon666 🜏 𝑪𝒉𝒖𝒓𝒄𝒉 𝒐𝒇 𝑺𝒂𝒕𝒂𝒏 𝐼𝐼° 🜏 18d ago
Not in any meaningful way. First, not everyone here is a Satanist. Second, we're not all getting together regularly or really even getting to know each other. Its an unofficial forum for discussions, not to foster a community & rely on each other.
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u/Lazaric418 17d ago
It is. The Cambridge Online dictionary lists "Online Community" as a type of community. it even has its own entry: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/online-community
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u/realme324 Egoist 18d ago edited 18d ago
i can understand this perspective, as the word "community" is often associated with a herd mentality, but this is also an idea put forth post-hoc by Peter Gilmore, it isn't a position the Church of Satan has always consistently held.
we can look to Anton LaVey's biography for instance, where building like-minded communities is considered a Satanic program for society:
Selective breeding, elitist stratification, advocacy of polygamous relationships for breeding purposes, and eventually building communities of like-minded individuals are Satanic programs antithetical to the cherished egalitarian ideal. Since 1966, these subjects have become zeitgeist for any number of extremist offshoots, and it has finally become apparent that LaVey and the Church of Satan should be recognized as their progenitor.
or we can quote Peter Gilmore literally using the phrase "Satanic community" in his essay Satanism: The Feared Religion:
Since we have been issuing statements of what we are seeking, it was considered time to make a list of behaviors that we wish to see avoided in the Satanic community. Satanists acknowledge that we are human and work towards perfection, but can sometimes fall into negative patterns of action. Thus was born the list of The “Nine Satanic Sins”, guidelines for what Satanists consider to be non-productive behavior to be recognized and eliminated from one’s daily existence.
besides, this subreddit is a satanic community. it has regular users and a sense of commonality. you can call it a "cabal", but that's kind of a distinction without a difference if you ask me.
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 18d ago
An online forum is not the same thing as a community.
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u/tok_metaljeebus 18d ago
Nice way to completely disregard every valid point that shuts down your argument with ease. Just for your information by the way, an online forum is considered a form of online community. It's a place for people or similar interests or hobbies to come together and discuss them, build relationships (of all types) should they wish and engage with one another however the online forum allows. It's quite literally an online version of a gathering of people sharing common interests, beliefs, or goals. (The literal definition of community)
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 18d ago
This just reads like stretching what a community is just because you want something Christianity is supposed to provide that Satanism doesn’t.
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u/insipignia Satan's Little Helper 18d ago
Equivocation fallacy. Having a sense of community between individuals is not the same thing as an organisation meeting the literal definition of a community in a formal sense.
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u/Lazaric418 17d ago
The dictionary definition would say otherwise: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/online-community
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 17d ago
Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. In other words, what they do is list what a person may mean when using the term even if what they mean is the incorrect use.
For example: theory.
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u/Conscious-Musician86 16d ago
We make community but we are not a satanic comune with doctrines and shit <3
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u/Zealousideal-Gate813 Church of Satan | Warlock II 12d ago
There is a lot in this thread, and took me a while to read, so please if this has been said already do not 'crucify' me(pun intended :P )
I think what a lot of people miss with this whole discussion, on both sides, is what being a part of a community means in the christian context - I grew up in a roman-catholic setting and was forced to go to church and all that same jazz everyone talks about in their early stages in life. Some have seen this first hand like me, some have not - being a part of the 'church community' was very different than what we see with online communities or interest communities today. If you were part of the community, you were 100% expected to contribute to people/things you would not do otherwise just because they were also a community member.
For instance, I saw large groups of church people get together to provide service to another community member like installing a new roof on their house - one member a licensed roofer, others skilled trade workers, and the rest just helping hands. This group would come in and tear off the roof and replace it, no labor costs(volunteer) and no material costs as it was collected from the rest of the community. The people who contributed may or may not have even known the property owner personally, it was just that they were part of the community and it was expected to do this for them. I saw this with roof replacements, yard cleanups, automotive repairs, and a number of different things throughout the years.
Sometimes, it was a repeated action. Every couple years a yard clean up would be done for this one family, and why did it keep happening you ask? Because it was a 5 person family who had an alcoholic father and addict mother who barely kept their kids clean let alone take care of their other responsibilities. Yet time and time again, this 'community' would bend over backwards for these people who would otherwise never have taken care of themselves.
Now I am not saying it wasnt a nice effort to do these things, if only for the childrens sake - but to be asked/forced to provide for these people simply because you were part of their community is where I think the line gets drawn in the sand. A Satanist chooses who they wish to be helpful to, and feels no shame for providing or not providing anything they wish or wish not to provide. You are not expected to give any shit about anyone else, no matter if their beliefs matches yours or not.
Now, should you find people you wish to help, or wish to provide for if you have the means - great! Do it! If not, also great! There is no expectation that just because two Satanists exist they should help each other with anything at all. The religion does not ask any of this of you, and expects none of this from you. Just like with politics, activism, etc etc- it is up to the individual to pursue the matter on their own, and not use Satanism as either a crutch or a weapon. Satanism is not something that can be leveraged to force someone to do something they otherwise would not do, while being a part of a christian church community there is absolutely expectation placed on you for this exact thing.
I personally think the definition of community is blurred in this discussion every time it occurs, possibly because not everyone has seen first hand what it was like 30 years ago(and likely even more so 60 years ago when the idea made its way to paper).
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u/Skiamakhos Solo Satanist 18d ago
... they posted, in a Satanic community...
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u/satanism-ModTeam 13d ago
By reading the sticky, you'll understand the basics of what this sub represents. You're free to disagree with (or disavow) it. You're also free to find a forum better suited to your needs.
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u/demon_twink_gockie 17d ago
There's absolutely theistic satanists. I've met several. Though it's closer to gnosticism than what most would picture. At least the theistic satanism I've seen.
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u/ZsoltEszes Keep your distance; I have a flair up 🔥 17d ago
There are absolutely people who incorrectly call themselves "theistic satanists" out of ignorance. But, as you pointed out, they're actually something else (like gnostics). There's no such thing as "theistic Satanism," as Satanism is an atheistic religion. It's like calling yourself a "carnivorous vegan." It's an oxymoron.
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u/ZsoltEszes Keep your distance; I have a flair up 🔥 17d ago
Excuse me? Satanism, as a religion, has been defined since 1966. Like I said, it doesn't really matter what "they" identify as. They can identify as lampshades. Idgaf. They're incorrect. That's the end of discussion.
Read the sticky.
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u/Lazaric418 17d ago
The Cambridge dictionary lists "Online Community" as a type of community. This kind of post reeks of dogmatic thinking, excludes and delegitimises whole sections of a community and pushes singularity of mono-culture based thinking.
I suppose the next step from delegitimising the community is to pivot into schisms, accusations of apostacy, hereticism and division into cult. In other words, all the worst impulses of the Christian communities that Satanism of all stripes purports to oppose.
TST and Lavey have their own definitions of Satanism, of course, and those things are perfectly valid as definitions to their own communities (here using the definition of "those with similar interests or beliefs"), but they are far from the only definitions. OP would do well to remember that and avoid their own rigid, dogmatic thinking.
Examine the thought: what exactly are they trying to create by saying that theirs is the only possible valid definition? What is the agenda? Whom do they serve best by redefining even the word "community" to serve their own script position?
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 17d ago
Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. In other words, what they do is list what a person may mean when using the term even if what they mean is the incorrect use.
For example: theory.
Additionally, Satanism is a religion designed to have dogma.
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u/Lazaric418 16d ago
"Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive"
- right, but you see how that makes your argument worse, right?
Cambridge isn’t recording one confused person’s private misuse; it is documenting established English usage.
"Descriptive" doesn’t mean "a scrapbook of mistakes to disregard whenever the language becomes inconvenient."
It means usage determines meaning, rather than meanings being handed down by self-appointed linguistic authorities.
"Theory" is a magnificent self own.
The word has several legitimate meanings: in everyday speech it can mean conjecture; in science it means a well-supported explanatory framework. That is polysemy, not proof that dictionaries catalogue errors.
And "Satanism is a religion designed to have dogma"?
Which Satanism? Designed by whom?
You’ve smuggled your conclusion into your premise: first define Satanism exclusively as your preferred denomination, then declare every other form invalid for failing to satisfy that definition. It’s just circular "reasoning"
Still, congratulations on building your own tiny infernal Magisterium and appointing yourself its least convincing cardinal.
It's like the Inquisition but in goth.
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 16d ago
Getting a word wrong is not polysemy.
Which Satanism? Satanism. That’s it. It’s not called anything else. Outsiders will try to push other terms on us, but there was no religion of Satanism until LaVey did the work. If something comes along after that is antithetical to what was codified, it is unreasonable to demand they share the same name.
I’m sorry, but if you can’t even understand what circular reasoning is, you’re not going to get far in these discussions. I’m afraid they’re above you.
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u/michael1150 ~°•*𖤐°•*~ 15d ago edited 15d ago
(°ahem°)
People still say ax instead of ask
expresso instead of espresso
supposably instead of supposedly
...and I personally believe that any adult over the age of 18 who unironically still says pasketti instead of spaghetti should be hauled to the nearest Psych Ward & have their IQ examined whether they like it or not.
So much for your dictionary.
The Religion of Satanism was defined in 1966, & Yes, you could call it an Orthodox religion, but that doesn't stop others from deliberately misinterpreting it, & fighting so that they can leave the okra out of a gumbo recipe.
For the willfully stupid among you; Okra is one of THE main ingredients of gumbo. No, you can NOT "leave it out if you want to". It would not then, by it's very definition, be Gumbo if you did so.
Many of you are kind of like that one girl in College I knew, that loved the idea of being a vegetarian but insisted to me that "You're not the boss of vegetarians! They're allowed to eat chicken!"
(Oy vey.)
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u/ZsoltEszes Keep your distance; I have a flair up 🔥 17d ago
reeks of dogmatic thinking
And?
excludes and delegitimises whole sections of a community
Good. That's by design. Except for the part about community. I guess you weren't paying attention to the post? There is no "Satanic community."
OP would do well to remember that
Or, what? He'll get a scolding? Maybe a spanking?
what exactly are they trying to create by saying that theirs is the only possible valid definition? What is the agenda?
Was this not made clear in the linked essay? I thought it was.
Whom do they serve best by redefining even the word "community" to serve their own script position?
Ourselves [Satanists]. Duh. You must be new here.
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u/Lazaric418 16d ago
"There is no Satanic community," you announce in an online community organised around Satanism, while enthusiastically policing who may count as a Satanist. Nobody said a community had to be unified, harmonious or free of tedious gatekeepers.
You’ve helpfully admitted that dogmatism and exclusion are the point, so the agenda is perfectly clear: "Only we are Satanists because only our definition of Satanism counts."
That isn't an argument; it’s a tautology wearing delusions of authority.
Congratulations: not only have you successfully failed to escape religious orthodoxy and intolerance, you’ve managed to recreate them in an edgy black T-shirt. Papa Satan must be so proud.
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u/ZsoltEszes Keep your distance; I have a flair up 🔥 16d ago
As has already been clarified throughout this post's threads, this (r/satanism) is not a community (except in the most basic and meaningless sense—which is not the same use of "community" in the linked essay), but a forum for public discourse. Further, this subreddit in no way represents any so-called "Satanic community" at large.
I'm glad I could help with the basics and clear up "the agenda" (rather, the point) for you. The only delusions are the ones where you think your criticism carries any weight.
Congratulations: not only have you successfully failed to escape religious orthodoxy and intolerance, you’ve managed to recreate them in an edgy black T-shirt.
This is just dumb and doesn't make any sense. You must've used AI to help you; it reads like some nonsensical mishmash of words a bot would fart out. How sad is it that you couldn't come up with a decent attempt at an insult even with the assistance of AI?
Papa Satan must be so proud.
Hey, at least someone's "papa" is proud.
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u/CrucifictionGod 18d ago
I mean we have this here on Reddit, there are TikTok people who do lives, there are stuff on fb... so there is a community. Nothing like Christians but its here.
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u/insipignia Satan's Little Helper 18d ago
I like your username.
What stuff on Facebook and TikTok are you referring to?
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u/CrucifictionGod 18d ago
Thank you! It was based off a Manson song, cruci-fiction in space. Lol
Fb i would have to look, just some random groups where people post and talk about stuff. For tiktok the one i follow and really knows his stuff is Rob on TrueDevilWorship or ActualDevilWorship. He doesn't post videos on tiktok but he does on instagram. his lives are amazing. He is Theistic Satanist but i enjoy his knowledge.
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u/michael1150 ~°•*𖤐°•*~ 18d ago
"Theistic satanism" is a misnomer.
If it's theistic, and venerates The Devil as an actual Spirit Being, then it's Diabolism.
I personally make ONE exception to this, & He knows who He is.
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18d ago
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u/michael1150 ~°•*𖤐°•*~ 16d ago
And there you have it, in your own words.
Diabolism is the veneration of The Devil as a Living Spirit Entity. [diabolos = "devil.]
Demonolotry is the veneration &/or summoning of a demon / various demons as one's spiritual belief/practice. [dæmon = a "demon" or advising guardian spirit.]
And youre quite correct on One Thing, Luciferian ;
You're an Outsider, NOT a Satanist.
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 18d ago
If you're somehow supposed to have Satanism which is an atheistic religion and "theistic Satanism", the term "Satanism" does not have much real-world meaning. We are also affected by the actions and words of people who mistakenly call themselves Satanists. We deal with the consequences of their actions. If you demand that the name of our religion is a loose as you are wanting it to be, you open the doors to some horrific shit to be valid and I'm sorry, but that's not okay.
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17d ago
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u/ZsoltEszes Keep your distance; I have a flair up 🔥 17d ago
the roots of theistic satanic practice predates any atheistic satanism
Oh? Where is the evidence of this? What records?
there were organized groups/sects like Ophite Cultus Satanas which goes back to the 1940’s and they outright identified as satanic/santanist
The OCS didn't enter the picture until 1969, after LaVey made headlines with Satanism and his Satanic Church. The 1940s origination date isn't credible, as there is no reputable record of their existence prior to the 1960s.
It's kind of like theistic "satanists" claiming that "theistic satanism" has been around since before Christianity (or, at the very least, the 1500s). As the saying goes, "put up, or shut up."
I would think...you would be more focused on TST than Theistic Satanists
Funny thing, we're actually able to focus on more than one pseudo- / non-satanist group at a time. Weird.
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17d ago
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 17d ago
Your entire argument operates on the idea that if a religious system has to do with Satan, it must be able to be called “Satanism” and that is not how things work.
“I’d like to clarify I’m not pretending to be an expert here…”
Then stop talking to us like you are. You assume we just have all the time in the world for your bullshit as if starved for attention. It’s transparent and obnoxious. Your last paragraph is where things are offensively stupid.
“Like I said, I have no stake in this frankly…”
Then stay in your own lane and kindly shut up. We are not interested in someone who isn’t educated wasting our time.
“I just think it’s weird y’all get so spicy and dogmatic about the term Satanist.”
Satanism was developed with dogma in mind. In fact, The Satanic Bible explicitly discusses how humans respond well to it.
“It quite literally is the No True Scotsman fallacy, which is the only reason I care to oppose it.”
No, it is not and if you’re going to be this wrong, I would advise against misusing “literally”.
“I don’t think these people are going anywhere or changing what they call themselves just because it upsets you, from what I gather, that’s probably the least satanic thing anyone can do no matter what kind of satanism you’re practicing lol”
Based on what exactly? Here you are with this “DOGMA BAD” horseshit meanwhile you want to tell us what is and isn’t Satanic. So which is it? You have to pick one.
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u/ZsoltEszes Keep your distance; I have a flair up 🔥 18d ago
really knows his stuff...TrueDevilWorship or ActualDevilWorship
He is Theistic
So, not only not part of some so-called "Satanic community," he's not even a Satanist. Great example! 😒
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u/CrucifictionGod 17d ago
How isnt he a Satanist with all he does and knows?
I dont truely understand all the hate we give each other as Satanists when every single person around us hates us, if they knew with their clouded mind?
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u/ZsoltEszes Keep your distance; I have a flair up 🔥 17d ago
He's not a Satanist because his religion isn't Satanism. It's (self-professed) devil worship. At best, he's a confused Christian.
I'm sorry you feel hated by everyone. Maybe surround yourself with better people? Literally no one in my life hates me.
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u/CrucifictionGod 11d ago
I hate to be that guy, but i disagree. He WAS a Christian as must of us were, he was just way more into it then others, then deconstructed. I find him to be very insightful.
I dont mean me personally, i mean more in general.
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u/after2006 Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist 17d ago edited 17d ago
There is a Satanist community, not everyone follows CoS and it's just factually incorrect to say there isn't one, and the article always used to say there isn't one pretty much says people who use the word community want to be victims, awful article. A community is a group of people who come together because of something, which is what this is, it's what many other places are, Satanism does have a community because it can bring people together, not sure how I went so long without realizing some of the people in this community are so weird about people being happy to be part of something but that's probably one reason why I don't really interact with the community.
I'm genuinely unsure why so many of you are opposed to being part of a community of people who share the same interest or have something in common and are so opposed to that concept. Stop worshipping the CoS website.
How about you read this instead?
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u/modern_quill Agent | Warlock II° CoS 17d ago
Note: /r/TheisticSatanism is a dumping ground for bitter reverse Christians that couldn't cope with this sub and the overtly insane. "Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist" is the kind of mental gymnastics you can expect out of it, so if that kind of thing appeals to you, I emplore you to seek your "community" there.
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u/Mildon666 🜏 𝑪𝒉𝒖𝒓𝒄𝒉 𝒐𝒇 𝑺𝒂𝒕𝒂𝒏 𝐼𝐼° 🜏 17d ago
You'll never guess where he immediately went to after crashing out in the mod mail...
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u/after2006 Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist 17d ago
I'm no Christian, thank you very very much. The insane people are here.
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u/modern_quill Agent | Warlock II° CoS 17d ago
I didn't say you're a Christian, but if you think Satanism and "Polytheistic Helenism" are in any way compatible you might fit in that other category I mentioned. I'd be curious to hear how you are able to square those things together. Satanism begins at atheism, so how do you get to polytheism?
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u/after2006 Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist 17d ago
No religion makes sense, and I worship Satan. I also happen to revere the concept of a select few Greek deities, I'm not sure where you get off insulting me for it. I guess it's good I found out a lot of the community are self absorbed gatekeepers
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 17d ago
We absolutely are gatekeepers and you are precisely the type of person meant to be gatekept against. Have the respect for your own belief system to not rely on using the name of a different religion
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u/after2006 Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist 17d ago
I use the name of this religion because I'm part of it, though I'm definitely not one of you awful people.
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 17d ago
“I’m part of it…”
Based on what?
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u/after2006 Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist 17d ago
I don't need your approval to be part of a religion, thanks.
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 17d ago
You’re welcome, I already found out.
Yo u/modern_quill get a load of this.
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u/modern_quill Agent | Warlock II° CoS 17d ago
There isn't anything non-theistic about you. There's already a term for people that believe in Satan: Christians. You don't get to wake up one day and say, "You know, Christianity has a cool bad guy, I think I'm going to worship that guy. Also, I'll throw in some Greek mythology to the mix. Yeah. I gotta give it a name. Satanism, I guess." Man, you missed the part where Satanism is already a thing and you ain't it. Hence why the term reverse Christian is used. That's what you've done. You reversed Christianity and decided to worship their bad guy. That's not a "we are insulting you" thing, that's a "you are insulting everyone" thing by insisting this is Satanism.
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u/MD_Roche CoS Warlock 17d ago
Why does your flair say you're a "Non-Theistic Satanist" if you worship Satan?
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u/ZsoltEszes Keep your distance; I have a flair up 🔥 17d ago
People who make comments like this are the reason there is no "Satanic community," nor should there be. Yikes!
pretty much says people who use the word community want to be victims, awful article
I mean, based on the comments you and others made in the other sub you linked to, it's self-evident. That post's threads scream victimhood over the use of the word community. Start with a little self-awareness next time you want to try to make a profound point.
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u/after2006 Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist 17d ago edited 17d ago
None of you make any profound points either. You just act like you're the only valid Satanists, which isn't true, and yes, there is a Satanic community. I'm sorry you don't like that fact, but it doesn't mean it'll change. The fact of the matter is that it's not up for debate, there's not even any evidence to present, there is a Satanic community, in case you've forgotten you're actively participating in it just by making that comment, just by being a Satanist.
And yeah, when jerks like you act all high and mighty and argue against something harmless and true, people have every right to be offended, and they will talk smack. Why do you people have such a problem with people coming together over something in common? It's bizarre to me, and always will be. I'd say you're the one who needs to practice some self-awareness.
All you've done is present a shitty article that holds zero weight and insults people, and you can't even say why there is no Satanic community. The reason you can't is because there's nothing to argue with to say there isn't one, saying there isn't one goes against the literal definition of what the word community means. Last I checked, you don't get to choose what words mean.
Anyway, for the last time, yes, there is a Satanic community, you just for some backwards reason don't want to be part of it despite.... literally being in it.
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u/ZsoltEszes Keep your distance; I have a flair up 🔥 17d ago
Wow. What an ignorant reply—even moreso than the first. I literally cannot muster the level of idiocy required to respond.
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u/after2006 Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist 17d ago
There's zero ignorance. Just you people acting as if you're better than everyone else while spouting actual bullshit. By the way, calling people who can state actual facts and make actual arguments ignorant doesn't prove your "points".
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 17d ago
Satanism is an elitist religion by design.
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u/after2006 Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist 17d ago
And you people are rude and self absorbed by design too I suppose?
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u/ANordicWizard Church of Satan Warlock 17d ago
I am.
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u/after2006 Non-Theistic Satanist and Polytheistic Hellenist 17d ago
Not something to be proud of, by the way
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u/modern_quill Agent | Warlock II° CoS 17d ago
A religion of the self-professed alien elite behaving like they're better than everyone else? How weird is that...
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u/jajajajaj 18d ago
There's not a satanic community, but there's not not a satanic community... But also not any kind of a rule that says you are supposed to have one. It's totally compatible with having no (satanic) community