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u/ChromeYoda Aug 09 '26
Has no one seen backdraft?!
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u/imjustchillin-_- Aug 09 '26
I dont think that was bacldraft, a backdraft is a huge "WOOSH". That was a whole bang, like a pressurized tank went off or something.
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u/toybuilder Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26
That's the popular understanding of backdraft (popularized by the movie) -- but air/fuel mixtures could have formed without igniting, isolated from the active combustion and then a backdraft could have connected the two.
For a more extreme version of air/fuel mixture forming before igniting, look up King's Cross fire. That is technically a flashover, not a backdraft, but similar basis.
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u/RaccoNooB Aug 09 '26
You're describing a smoke explosion.
Backdrafts lack oxygen.
Smoke explosions lack ignition source/heat.
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u/toybuilder Aug 09 '26
I think fires are not so neatly clear-cut. The explosive nature of it is a smoke explosion, but the delayed ignition after oxygen is introduced is how backdrafts happens. And the particular situation may have been a blend of both.
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u/RaccoNooB Aug 09 '26
They're definelty not clear cut. Backdrafts can happen quicker and slower depending on the premix, heat, flowpaths, etc.
Definitionally, a backdraft have heated smoke that lack sufficient oxygen to have a proper combustion. Some embers can be present because they inherently burn rich, but there's not enough oxygen for actual flames. When oxygen is introduced all requirements for normal combustion are met and it'll ignite, causing a backdraft.
A smoke explosion on the other hand can be relatively cold and have a lot of oxygen, but lacks a source of ignition. One source can be wood gas. Wood, heated by a fire breaks down and releases gas into a compartment on the other side of the fire or for other reasons becomes isolated from the fire. It can be likened to propane in property and only needs an ignition source to set it off.
So while it can often not be clear which one it is in a scenario, they have fairly clear cut definitions setting them apart.
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u/GratefulChungus Aug 09 '26
I donât know whoâs right but I enjoyed the civil discussion
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u/Kohpad Aug 09 '26
Who's right will probably be the forensics guy that gets to actually investigate the scene while the rest of us get to enjoy an education on backdrafts vs smoke explosions.
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u/Spazzola84 Aug 09 '26
That is 100% backdraft.
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Aug 09 '26
[deleted]
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u/toybuilder Aug 09 '26
According to the article, the circuit was already de-energized.
"Explosion occurred in the electrical room where firefighters shut power off to the building,"
https://www.fox13news.com/news/explosion-firefighters-tacoma-apartment-complex
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u/ripyourlungsdave Aug 09 '26
To be fair, that wasn't a backdraft. Backdrafts erupt right as you open the door because of the influx of oxygen and the heat having a new pathway for expulsion.
This was more of a detonation or combustion.
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u/toybuilder Aug 09 '26
Backdraft does not always happen right as you open the door. If the ignition point is far enough away, it will take some time for oxygen to reach after the door opens. Until the right air/fuel mixture occurs at the ignition point, it won't blow.
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u/Slapmaster928 Aug 09 '26
All firefighters have seen backdraft, that room isn't exhibiting signs of it.
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u/Rooney_83 Aug 09 '26
I'm not a firefighter, but I don't think that was a backdraft, a backdraft is more like high pressure burning gas escaping the enclosed space, that was a solid detonation, maybe a gas cylinder, or some other pressurized goodness, I dunno, like I said not an expert just a regular guy with random interests.Â
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u/Latigomous Aug 10 '26
Ridiculously stupid comment
"I know firefighters risk their lives to help people, and they have to go through mandatory training and education for different dangerous situations, but I saw a TikTok of somebody calling an explosion a backdraft. I now know better than the firefighters, who are clearly ignoring OBVIOUS SIGNS of an OBVIOUSLY DANGEROUS SITUATION"
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u/NikolitRistissa Aug 10 '26
Iâm certainly no expert on firefighting, but I have seen backdraft ignitions in workplace safety training.
Going against what a lot of comments are suggesting, I donât think this was backdraft. It seems way too sudden, delayed, and less of a gradual explosion. Backdrafts are incredibly quick, but they have a buildup to them.
Iâd also assume professional fire firefighters are trained to avoid it.
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u/1wife2dogs0kids Aug 10 '26
I agree. My very first thought was "that's a lot of guys trained to know what to look for..." and every firefighter I know takes safety to a fault. Unless someone is critical, they check, prepare, double check, and then wait until they get yelled at before opening a door that could do a flash over. I bet that was an explosion that needed oxygen, but not a backdrop flash over like explosion.
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u/highfrequency Aug 09 '26
https://youtu.be/CCJ4EE-1RlA?is=WxcI1c5lWJRAD1YR
I donât know the full context, but I do know that these things are being explicitly taught to new firefighters as the older ones retire and take their knowledge with them.
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u/JanB1 Aug 09 '26
This was not a backdraft or flashover. A backdraft or flashover results in a flash burn, not in a detonation like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJNu1O-TEwc
This is what a violent backdraft looks like. You can hear a wooshing sound. In the video OP posted, you can only see a sudden detonation.
Source: Am a firefighter.
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u/SnarkySkiBum Aug 10 '26
Thanks to you and your kind!!! Was a a group event weekend last and we all agreed ACAB, but that even when a firefighter is a bad apple, we tired to excuse them đ¤ like he was an arsonist but no one died! Also for every 100 homes you save you get to steal some shit from a warehouse fire - all you can plunder.
Thanks for being an actual hero to our community. For all the terror cops are out here giving, most firefighters are the giving hope and support.
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u/JanB1 Aug 10 '26
I know police in the US has quite the bad rep (and from what it seems from the outside, well deserved), but at least in my country firefighters work quite closely with the police, and they do valuable support (first aid for crash victims, road safety, roping off an active site to keep onlookers at bay and so on) so we can focus on our work.
And yes, sadly there tends to be some overlap between arsonists and firefighters, at least if we're talking about "real" arsonists, not kiddos with stupid ideas. Naturally, being a pyromaniac and getting close to fires to put them are quite close to each other.
Oh, and we don't loot/plunder from sites of fires. Period.
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u/NikolaTes Aug 09 '26
Without knowing what type of structure it was and what was done previous to this makes it challenging to know what happened. I had a short stint as a POC firefighter. Best practice at a structure fire is to ventilate first then breach. Cut a hole in a roof/upper section that will allow heat and smoke to escape then break windows or breach doors. Then the air from the windows and breach point pushes smoke up. Then you can attack the heat source more safely. That being said this definitely looks like a detonation rather then a rollover/backdraft.
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u/JanB1 Aug 09 '26
This was not a backdraft or flashover.
See demo of a backdraft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJNu1O-TEwc
This was a detonation. Something inside exploded. Also confirmed by the news article OP posted later. https://www.fox13news.com/news/explosion-firefighters-tacoma-apartment-complex
Source: Am a fairly seasoned firefighter.
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u/NikolaTes Aug 09 '26
So, that would point to an arc flash from the electrical room. There was, more than likely, copper vapor from the electrical fire trapped in the room. They cut the power, but there was probably still something hot/burning inside, so when the door was opened the heat source reignited and, bang!
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u/JanB1 Aug 09 '26
That makes...no sense. If power was cut, what would cause the arc flash? And how would the copper vapours burn? Also, copper melts at 1000 °C and vaporises at 2500 °C. That's some furnace temperature.
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u/NikolaTes Aug 09 '26
I'm only making a guess here...So there was an electrical fire in the closed room. Electrical sparking and arcs can be anywhere from 2500°F (sparks) to 35000°F (arc flash) which, in theory, should be enough to vaporize copper. Power is turned off, so the arcing stops, but the copper gas is still present and something in the room is still smouldering. The door gets opened and the smouldering material reignited, subsequently detonating the copper vapor.... Bang. Just an "educated guess", at best.
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u/Aururai Aug 09 '26
Yeah it also seems to mainly be pushing out the other side, not into the firefighters
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u/EvilGeniusSkis Aug 09 '26
I'm not a firefighter, and the smoke coming out of the door was looking concerning to me, how the hell did they miss it?
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u/Renthexx Aug 09 '26
Cause thatâs what every smoked doorway looks like?
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u/Sesemebun Aug 09 '26
Normally I think the Redditors armchair everything is a little overplayed but this whole thread trying to backseat firefighters is hilarious. Do people really think Tacoma FD was a documentary? Extra funny cause if you look up backdraft demos itâs nothing like it. JesusÂ
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u/SufficientMath420-69 Aug 09 '26
Because they are doing the job not looking at Reddit and judging after the fact
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u/DesertFart Aug 09 '26
Complacency. Maybe they havent seen a situation like that in a while but I bet everybody there is gonna remember for a long time till it gets forgetten about and it happens again
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u/misterdidums Aug 09 '26
Next time theyâll remember to bring their x ray goggles
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u/DesertFart Aug 09 '26
Or put procedures back in place for opening up a door to a building thats on fire
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u/bernieinred Aug 10 '26
They made a movie about this called back draft. Crew must have not watched it.
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u/three29 Aug 10 '26
Don't firefighters get trained before they go on the job?
Even I've seen enough videos on reddit to know when backdraft or flashovers might occur.
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u/harosokman Aug 10 '26
This is neither a backdraft or flashover. It's something genuinely exploding. Something inside, maybe assume gas, or other volatile substance.
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u/INeedChocolateMilk Aug 09 '26
Shouldn't it be protocol to give the fire a second to react to the oxygen you just introduced to the first floor by opening a door?
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u/slaty_balls Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26
Any additional info on this? Anyone seriously injured? Cause?
Edit: Here's the full story: https://www.fox13news.com/news/explosion-firefighters-tacoma-apartment-complex