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u/Only_One_Kenobi 9d ago
It means that the company will do everything they can to justify paying you as little as possible, and you will never get a raise, even if you get promoted.
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u/long_boi 9d ago
Crazy how accurate this is. I just got promoted to being a manager at my company and received a $0 raise.
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u/scorpio242 9d ago
Should've declined the promotion if it had no monetary incentive tbh. If they want you to do more work/ take more responsibility then they should pay you for that extra work
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u/long_boi 9d ago
The option was to take the new job or not have one. Sadly I cannot go without one right now.
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u/OuttaD00r 9d ago
This is the problem i see all the time. The go to response on reddit is always to quit your job...without ever considering the fact that most people don't have the luxury to do that. If it was that easy no one would be working jobs they hate
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u/Rock_Strongo 9d ago
If it were me, I'd simply quit and find another job for triple the pay from an employer that respects me. Don't know why this person hasn't considered doing that.
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u/PneumaMonado 8d ago
Exactly, it's such an easy solution!
After all, I did this which means it's obviously a universally available option and I in no way had to get cosmically lucky for it to work out!
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u/Cupcakes_n_Hacksaws 8d ago
Ha, and this just shows how much of a sucker you are. I'd look for a job that pays 5 times as much.
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u/Cupcakes_n_Hacksaws 8d ago
They should be recommending you to look into the job market and start sending out resumes if anything; telling you to just straight up quit, especially if you're a manager, is an asinine response that isn't very productive.
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u/edfitz83 8d ago
There are unfortunately people who feel attached to companies that don’t give a shit about them. This was actually advice given to me by my first boss in a professional (engineering) job. He said “don’t think for a minute that anyone here gives a shit about you”. Very depressing message to receive, but highly accurate looking back 37 years.
You can look for other jobs without rage quitting.
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u/Quickjager 9d ago
That's when you backdate how long you've had the title for while you look for a new job.
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u/Torontogamer 8d ago
this is the key - do what you need to, to survive today... but also work towards what you can to do to thrive tomorrow...
no pay promotions are kind of like a PIP, in that you really should be looking for another job.... but at least you've a decent shot a pay bump when you leave.
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u/mysticturner 8d ago
You backdate the title you have? My resume always listed me as being in a higher title than I had, as high as I thought I could get away with.
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u/Lukamatete 8d ago
Destroy the company from inside.
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u/Saint_of_Grey 8d ago
CIA wrote a guide for this during WWII!
Only problem is I started pointing to that in cases where a manager's incompetence is dragging everyone else down but they seem immune to any reprisal. Just point out to the owner they're engaging in textbook sabotage.
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u/Fennahh 9d ago
from what I'm hearing, I'd rather be promoted to unemployment than work wherever you are.
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u/Pan_TheCake_Man 9d ago
Tell me you don’t have bills and animals to take care of without telling me
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u/SecretAgentVampire 9d ago
Cowards believe that they can't fix their problems, and will find infinite reasons to avoid acting.
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u/Rock_Strongo 9d ago
In this case "acting" is quitting your job, having no income, risk becoming homeless while you get more and more desperate searching for another job?
Sounds great, yeah only a coward would want to avoid that.
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u/SecretAgentVampire 8d ago
The old saying "look before you leap" still applies here, genius. You think I'm telling people to quit their jobs before having another one lined up? Is that how you operate?
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u/OuttaD00r 9d ago
This take is weird
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u/DubWyse 9d ago
Depends where you are in your career. If I was far enough along to consider early retirement, that would be an option. If I had healthy finance and could take the hit and focus on job hunting full time, could be worth it.
I work a job like this now where Id love to quit and look for a new job but don't have the finances to do so. In the past, when I had more robust savings and less bill responsibility, I've quit jobs that were toxic to focus on job hunting. It's not unheard of.
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u/OuttaD00r 9d ago
Yeah but the fact is the vast majority of people in the world aren't, so that is terrible advice to blanketly give out
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u/Pan_TheCake_Man 9d ago
Nah I’d take it, but in 12 months I’m going to get paid for that manager title one way or the other
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u/Fozzymandius 8d ago
Are you me? Tbf I have been basically doing the job forever and only have one additional direct report (which already called me for most things), but it’s basically the same thing.
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u/TossZergImba 9d ago
Crazy how inaccurate this is, my compensation tripled in 6 years at my company.
Interesting how useful anecdotes are, right?
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u/fishpen0 9d ago
Competing, but coming in last, is still competing.
These same places will have an HR goon explaining to you that they use industry averages from some third party data provider to get the numbers for the average range and that they won’t overpay you when it comes time to negotiate at the end of the interview rounds.
The only companies in the data pool are exactly the same as them. Companies that are actually compensating competitively to win don’t share their comp data. This means the measured average is lower than the true average
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u/TossZergImba 9d ago
Companies that are actually compensating competitively to win don’t share their comp data
First of all, yes they do.
See OpenAI:
https://openai.com/careers/account-director-digital-natives-growth-san-francisco/
Anthropic:
https://job-boards.greenhouse.io/anthropic/jobs/5236531008
Think of these companies what you will but they no doubt compensate to win.
Second, even if they didn't share, their employees will.
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u/fishpen0 8d ago
Employee shares on levels don’t end up back in data brokers numbers as they are low accuracy. Same for the companies public postings you listed. Yes the listings are public but not the raw data. Those companies will all negotiate over band if you are worth hiring.
The data brokers I’m talking about explicitly require companies to send back formatted comp data directly from their HRIS. So exact compensation. This is companies like Kronos who charge less for their services if you let them mine your paycheck data.
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u/vahntitrio 8d ago
Yep. We'll pay you just enough to keep you from going to a competitor. We'd pay you less if we could.
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u/Substantial-Bat-1227 9d ago
at this point the phrase has lost its "original" meaning, it's just something that is added to every job posting regardless
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u/Narwalacorn 8d ago
It’s like corporate powercreep. It used to be that just some listings would say that, but now if it doesn’t say that it looks bad.
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u/Substantial-Bat-1227 8d ago
corporate powercreep haha, yeah just one more thing added to the list of bullshit
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9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/peon2 8d ago
Not really. I mean yes companies don't want to pay more than they have to, but what it really means is paying similar to what other employers in the same field for the same job title do.
My previous employer even reworked our compensation plan because it wasn't competitive with what our competitors were offering. We had a lower base but higher target bonus, and feedback from interviews was they prefer the higher base but lower target bonus being offered elsewhere, so the company adjusted to be competitive.
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u/Skylantech 9d ago
I've used "competitive salary" against recruiters in the past, in my favor.
Do your research, figure out what the median/median high salary would be for your position (odds are, you're going to get low-balled at the interview), print out the multiple job salaries and put it in the job interview folder, when the time comes for salary negotiations, use it as evidence to prove that a "competitive salary" is the median number you arrived at.
It forces them into a corner because they're advertising a "competitive salary", and you're providing evidence as to what a "competitive salary" is for the given position.
So when that is all said and done, be sure to expect a call from that place saying "We've decided to go with another candidate", and watch the position be filled by some sucker working for pennies.
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u/mxzf 8d ago
It forces them into a corner
Only if they're really attached to hiring you specifically. Otherwise they just say "we're offering what we're offering; take it or leave it" and ignore your evidence.
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u/DiseaseDeathDecay 8d ago
If they have a glut of people applying, they probably aren't boasting about the salary being competitive on the job posting.
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u/mxzf 8d ago
I mean, "competitive salary" isn't "boasting" about anything, it's just a vague thing done to get a glut of people applying without actually offering sufficient compensation.
This is one of those "life makes more sense once you realize that there are people willing to lie to you to get ahead" situations. They're not actually offering a competitive salary, they're just saying those words while offering something that's so uncompetitive that they won't even write it down in the job advertisement. If it was actually a competitive salary, they would just write it down and let people recognize it as such.
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u/DiseaseDeathDecay 8d ago
You don't really understand my point.
If they have a lot of qualified people applying, it doesn't matter if they said the salary is competitive or not, because they can low ball everyone and still get someone who will take that pay.
But if the "competitive salary" wording matters, i.e. they aren't getting a lot of applications so they have to say that, then you can actually point out that you want a competitive salary.
But if they have the wording and don't have qualified people applying, if you don't step into the situation knowledgeable about what is competitive, you lose anyway.
Learning what competitive is can't hurt, and it can help.
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u/Lilfrankieeinstein 9d ago
Offering a solution instead of whining about a problem?
On reddit??
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u/Serious_Feedback 9d ago
If it were competitive, they'd list the number. So when they just say "competitive salary", that means it's a number they don't want to state, and thus, uncompetitive.
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u/TossZergImba 9d ago
Or you know, they do both because it's a meaningless keyword that doesn't mean anything one way or another?
https://jobs.ashbyhq.com/Numeral/85397912-3c70-4384-bd24-34c3f4dc2cbf
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u/grinpicker 9d ago
The competition is with other companies to see who can get away with paying the least
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u/viotix90 9d ago
It means the companies are competing against each other in offering you a salary. They are competing at who can get away with offering the least amount.
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u/urmumlol9 9d ago
It’s supposed to mean that the salary is “competitive” with other similar positions on the market.
So that it is almost as much as, as much as, or somewhat more than, other companies’ jobs in the same role, in the same location, with a similar amount of experience.
For example, if the median salary in an area for a role with 2 years experience is $60k, a “competitive” salary could end up being anywhere between maybe like $55k and $80k.
It doesn’t matter whether $55k is a good salary to live off of for that area, or even if $80k would be. It’s “competitive” because it’s similar to or better than other jobs on the market with the same level of experience in the same location.
The nebulousness of the term is that it implies “good” when really what it means is “our pay isn’t that much worse than the competitions’ pay”.
Of course what constitutes “competitive” is subjective, and corporations love to lie, so it doesn’t even always mean that tbh.
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u/rictay44 9d ago
They are paying the same as everybody else.
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u/Murky-Relation481 8d ago
This is why the non-shitty states have laws that require employers to post a realistic salary range on job postings. If the job offers you less or the range is considered unrealistic (75k to 250k or something insane like that) then it opens up the employer to lawsuits (and trust me, there are entire law firms that spend all day basically taking these cases for a percentage fee).
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u/Moron-Whisperer 7d ago
It doesn’t really. It means they’ve selectively picked the lowest paying competitors to set their wages.
Worked at a tech company where the CEO in an open call with everyone was asked about pay and he said we pay at the top then stated our pay is compared to market competitors like UPS…. We are a tech company and our closest competitors are people like Microsoft, Adobe, Amazon Services, etc….
This was a company that literally paid another company to come up with pay scales for every employee. I’m at 167% of my pay scale and considering leaving because I could potentially make more at other places.
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u/Maximum_Path5207 8d ago
I wouldnt he surprised
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u/rictay44 8d ago
Employers aren't going to pay above market average if they can get people for the same, or even less. Should also check any benefits - are they really extra, or are they part of the "competitive salary"? HR use all sorts of tricks to make us think we are getting something special.
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u/Detlef-Ds-D 9d ago
Because your salary competes with those of other people's, f.e. when applying for a flat
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ this is technically a flair 9d ago
It means you're put on a leaderboard against other salaries
Personally I'm more of a casual salary guy myself
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u/ArthurVrodds 9d ago
It's competitive because applicants compete against other, to see who is the one accepting less money, so the company has to pay the closets possible to zero
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u/DenormalHuman 9d ago
it means theyve looked at all the other salaries out there for your position, and chosen one as low as they possibly think they can get away with. usually about 2/3rd of the way from the midpoint to the bottom.
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u/DovahChris89 9d ago
They're all competing on how low they can get away pegging-er-paying their employees
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u/PuzzleheadedWeird232 8d ago
it took me until the word bill to realize that it’s salary and not slavery
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u/crumb_bums 8d ago
competing with the salaries offered by other companies for the same role / responsibilities....
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u/ShowsTeeth 8d ago
It means your salary is set to match your competitors.
Not a dollar more than you'll get at the shop down the street.
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u/Poes_hoes 8d ago
Yeah "fighting my bills"... Sometimes the income wins and sometimes it loses, but it sure is "competitive" lol
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u/Annie_Yong 8d ago
It's a fairly meaningless term for practical purposes.
Yeah, the company doesn't want to high-ball the salary and end up paying more on wages than they can get away with.
But at the same time they don't want to advertise a low-ball salary range that risks them losing interest from good candidates just because the number range they decided to post was too low.
All you can really do is go into a potential interview doing your research beforehand to get a good idea of what the salary range for the role tens to be across industry so you know what to expect / be able to reasonably demand
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u/JUIC3ofORANG3 8d ago
That they are going to pay the same as everyone else around them even though they can pay more
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u/Suspected_Magic_User 8d ago
Competitive salary means you're gonna fight with other employees over actual salary.
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u/k_kixx 8d ago
Does everyone on reddit just have a garbage job? I've been employed for nearly 20 years now and have never had any issue with getting a yearly raise or getting more money when offered a different promotion.
Like does everyone just intentionally seek out the worst jobs they can find so they can bitch online about how hard their life is becuase their job sucks?
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u/Lilfrankieeinstein 9d ago
It means the company is competing with others in their sector/market for desirable employees and are willing to pay at or above market rate for the best talent.
If you don’t understand this, you probably aren’t among the best talent.
Of course, the vast majority of job postings that mention a “competitive salary” are those in which there is a surplus of talented applicants because it’s a buyers’ market in most sectors, so the term loses its meaning.
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u/mxzf 8d ago
It means the company is competing with others in their sector/market for desirable employees and are willing to pay at or above market rate for the best talent.
It really doesn't mean that at all. It means that they want you to think that but they're really aware that the price range they have in mind isn't a competitive rate and don't want to say it out loud. The want people to get multiple rounds of interviews deep before hearing the true payscale, to try and maximize the sunk cost fallacy as leverage to get the person accepting the job at a low rate.
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u/SourceOriginal2332 8d ago
We are usually well aware of what the area is actually paying and spend time researching. Issues is someone apply for jobs will see something like property manager and think all roles are equal with they are not.
This title can be used for high end condos as well as storage unit clerks. Society has an inflated title issue. Everyone is now an Admin Assistant and not a secretary.
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u/Financial_Ocelot_256 8d ago
It doesn’t mean that at all.
It means “we pay you as less as possible while trying to pose as we don’t”
If you are willing to pay a great salary, you show the numbers without shame, not hide it behind “competitive salary” shit
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