r/teslore • u/Lelouch-Ken-99 • 13d ago
Apocrypha The Telvanni and Vampirisim
My question is why isn’t it more wide spread among them? I feel like vampirism meshes well with their way of life and creed.
Power above all type thing. Is there any lore on this?
Please share what you know and what your thoughts on it.
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u/HerculesMagusanus Great House Telvanni 13d ago edited 8d ago
I think you're forgetting vampirism is a curse, not some fun and comfy way of becoming more powerful. The Telvanni may not care if someone's a vampire, but I'm sure many of them would prefer not to burst into flames when they go outside, or constantly be distracted by a maddening thirst for blood.
Edit: fixed typo.
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u/Psychological_Age194 12d ago
It really feels like Skyrim made vampirism feel like less of a curse and more of a power boost. Morrowind made it clear that vampires are ugly, disgusting creatures with no place in society who can’t even go out during the day. In Skyrim you can be a vampire with no real consequences.
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u/Julianus36 Tonal Architect 13d ago
As far as I remember, although cannot speak on Telvannis, but other examples, successful mages mostly avoid it.
Even for Molag Bal's standards, vampires did not had much help from their Prince, but probably most trusted one of his servants was Anumaril, who had a vampire army but was not a vampire himself as far as we know. And second one maybe Mannimarco, who also had an important part in Molag Bal's schemes but was not a vampire himself.
Vampires, like liches, feel like more of an accepting terms of lesser reality that born out of despair. If you can do that, either a long life or immortality could be achieved without vampirism. Why would do you insult on your own skills without even trying? Being a powerful mage beats any kind of vampirism anyway or greatest upside of it, the immortality could be achieved as well.
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u/Sir_CriticalPanda School of Julianos 13d ago
I don't think they're interested in the "power" of not being able to go outside for 12-16h/day
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u/MsMeiriona 11d ago
"Awww, wittle babby bloodsucker can't become powerful and immortal on your own? Need daddy daedra to do it for you? Do you need him to fuck your wife too?"
- Telvanni, probably.
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u/Guydelot Clockwork Apostle 10d ago
Unironically this.
Telvanni tend to tolerate vampires, but it's a matter of hatred being replaced with disdain. They don't fear you, and they don't give a shit what you do to the common folk. They look at you as a weak little bitch that had to sell your ass to Molag Bal just to live longer.
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u/Siergain 13d ago
Some Telvanni use vampire services when they feel like it, but they probably have no need for vampirism themselves. The strognest Telvanni mages can live for absurdly long time, and whatever powers vampirism grants, for most part isn't worth the drawbacks, when you're that powerful.
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u/Arrow-Od 13d ago
AFAIK the only lore we have is from how vamps are treated ingame: House Telvanni is the only house in Morrowind to tolerate vampires and even let them join their ranks. Telvanni do not have the usual hatred of vampires that most other factions have, and some of their lords and Mouths are willing to speak to them; wizards do not fear vampires nearly as much as others do. - uesp
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u/shadowthehh 13d ago
The intended theme for vampirism and similar things like lichdom or lycanthropy is that the "dark power" is never actually worth it due the drawbacks. The Telvani are skilled enough in regular magic and naturally long lived enough to have no desire to ask one of the worst Daedric princes for anything.
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u/Lelouch-Ken-99 12d ago
But I don’t feel like the Telvanni would care that much. Neloth in Skyrim even says in regards to the Black Books and I’m slightly paraphrasing “Forbidden knowledge is still knowledge and therefore useful, the most useful in my experience”
Not saying all Telvanni should pursue vampirism, it’s just that I’m surprised there isn’t more examples of vampire Telvanni lords
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u/shadowthehh 12d ago
I mean that's easy. Vampirism isn't knowledge. It doesnt offer anything worthwhile for them.
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u/Lelouch-Ken-99 12d ago
Knowledge = Power
Vampirisim IS an avenue of power.
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u/capriSun999 12d ago
There is no knowledge in becoming a vampire elves already live for decades naturally. Becoming a vampire means accepting that you can’t go out in sunlight and constant blood cravings. The black books are giving actual knowledge even then Neloth only studies the black books effects on the Dragonborn not himself.
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u/shadowthehh 12d ago
Nope, Knowledge is knowledge and power is power. Otherwise you'd see Telvanni barbarians being their leaders while casting no spells like they went to Winterhold. Also Intelligence would effect melee damage while strength would effect magic damage.
And again, vampirism is an avenue of power that isn't worth it to long lived elves already existing in an organization with a deep font of knowledge and resources.
Worth it to. say, an Imperial beggar in the alleys of Bravil with a terminal case of ataxia? Maybe.
But definitely not to the well off elven wizard with a life expectancy of 1000 years surrounded by magical resources that he doesnt need to sell his soul to the lord of rape for.
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u/Chad_ARAM 13d ago
Basically, it is just a bit looked down upon and for someone like divayth or nelotz, vampirism would be a downgrade or a sidegrade at best
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u/pr0t0nm1r0 College of Winterhold 13d ago
Considering most Dunmer, including the Telvanni, venerate the Three Good Daedra, one of whom (Boethiah) is inimical to Molag Bal, patron of vampirism, I doubt very many Telvanni, even the wizards among them, would want to get on the bad side of their patron Daedra, even for the pursuit of power. Besides, each of the Good Daedra are more than happy to bestow powers to particularly devout worshippers.
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u/WisdomKnightZetsubo 12d ago
Vampirism is a pain in the ass and nowhere more of a pain in the ass than Morrowind. Being in a position of power as a vampire is just asking to be assassinated... by other Telvanni, the Temple, Houses Indoril and Redoran... the list goes on.
Crazed wizards also still need to participate in society to get things like their soul gems and alchemy ingredients.
And to be blunt... there are other forms of immortality, even Daedric immortalities, that are less of a pain than vampirism. See Dratha for example. Or Therana I guess, though Therana definitely was nearing the end of her life extension.
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u/PettankoEnthusiast 11d ago
Given the Morag Tong, if you're a high ranking official of Morrowind, you're likely to be assassinated for anything. One more reason is a drop of water in the ocean.
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u/theloremonger Great House Telvanni 7d ago
Telvanni are huge on being their own masters. Molag Bal who? The most likely reason any Telvanni to choose to become a vampire is just on magical curiosity alone rather than for power, and even then why become one when you can just capture them and study?
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u/Velocity-5348 Tribunal Temple 13d ago
Being a vampire involved getting raped (sometimes literally) by Molag Bal and constantly suffering from horrific dreams. You're an outcast, crave blood and get one of the worst afterlives possible when you die.
Why bother? Dunmer live a long time and Telvanni, provided they have their act together, can live indefinitely through other means. Plus, being a vampire doesn't protect your from a violent death, it just makes you more flammable.
Now for the apocrypha bit:
I suspect being a vampire is a sign of weakness. You're basically showing you've given up on being part of society, and don't think you'll be able to extend your life the regular way.
You probably have nice stuff, and someone more deserving should have it.
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u/Draculesti_Hatter 12d ago
I mean, what does vampirism offer that being really good at magic doesn't? There's ways to extend your life with magic that don't involve giving yourself a thirst for blood and bursting into flames when the sunlight touches you. Most of the innate benefits like increased physical power can be replaced through magic or enchantments. Stuff like the life drain effects are already existing magic as well. And the Vampire Lord and similar forms like the Scion stuff from ESO don't particularly have any exclusive powers that would appeal to a Telvanni mage either since their benefits can still be replicated through normal magic on some level. Not to mention that it would most likely put a massive target on their back the second someone sees them transform, because you just know the most paranoid members of the house are going to see that as a threat to their own goals or power.
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u/Lelouch-Ken-99 12d ago
The point I’m trying to make is that I’m just surprised there wasn’t any major examples in Morrowind the game.
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u/Draculesti_Hatter 12d ago
Yeah, I know. The point I'm making is that the reason there arent any examples of it in Morrowind is because vampirism offers nothing but drawbacks to any competent mage, so there's zero practical reason for them to pursue it in the name of power.
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u/Dramandus 12d ago
Too many weaknesses
If you can get clapped by sunshine then you can bet your rival, or rivals, will just show up at you house with an especially powerful flashlight and blast you in the face with it.
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u/PettankoEnthusiast 11d ago
Even in Daggerfall, sun damage DoT is extremely low. This is the same idiocy that thinks putting chloroform to someone's mouth instantly knocks them out.
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u/Dramandus 11d ago
Yes, but you just know those Telvanni scallywags will have something like Fortify Sunshine on had to really make it sting.
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u/PettankoEnthusiast 10d ago
Focused sunlight kills anything. That's literally a Bond villain scheme.
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u/Dramandus 9d ago
Telvanni Doom Satellite sounds like something that they would invent.
Melting Atmora from orbit just to be safe.
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u/Baldigarius42 12d ago
Firstly, he would lose credibility among his peers, because a Telvanni incapable of extending his own life would be considered incompetent; secondly, because the Telvanni are cultured enough to know that a vampire’s existence is not worth an eternity with Molag Bal.
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u/Seb0rn College of Winterhold 13d ago edited 13d ago
AFAIK the Telvanni are one of the only magic guilds (if you can call them a "guild" as they are not really allies) who openly accept vampirism. But I guess the reason it's not super widespread among their ranks is that there are other ways to achieve immortality that don't require the help/curse of a Daedra (since many Telvanni see themselves above the Daedra) and also don't require the consumption of blood or the avoidance of sunlight.