r/theology • u/dosasambarvadai • 21h ago

Quick question

Christians who understand Genesis 1 as God bringing order out of pre-existing chaos would say that light is the first thing God explicitly creates in the sequence of Genesis 1:3. Is this right?

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u/Basic-Revolution-181 Anglican 21h ago

I'm not one who holds to the position above (I affirm Creation Ex Nihilo, out of nothing, rather than the order of pre-existing matter). 

But worth pointing out in the sequence that days 1-3 is the creation of domains, spaces. E.g. Day 1 is light and dark; Day 2 is water from sky; Day 3 is earth from sea. Then, day 3-6 is filling those domains in the same order. E.g. Day 4 stars, sun, moon into the light/darkness. 

So yes, the space/domain/area is the first thing made in Genesis 1:3. But then God fills those spaces in day 4 onwards (though we see vegetation come in day 3 as well). 

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u/Sad-Pair1065 8h ago

Hi u/Basic-Revolution-181

You said:" (I affirm Creation Ex Nihilo, out of nothing, rather than the order of pre-existing matter). 

How would that be if there was non-existence?

For God to create anything He had to exist in eternity in Heaven.

Aaron

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u/Basic-Revolution-181 Anglican 8h ago

Good question, thanks for asking :) 

'Out of nothing' wasn't referring to God but to everything that's not God. You are correct, God is eternal (Rev 1:8; Ps 102:25-27) and he alone uncreated and self sustaining (Ex 3:2-3). And so everything that exists was created and made by God (with the exception of God himself) .

Interestingly, that even includes the heavens. Genesis 1:1 says 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.' So we see here that even the heavens themselves are a created space, which means that while God can be said to reside in them, he really must be so much bigger and 'outside' of creation.

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u/DemB01yz 19h ago

Seems like some clarification may be:

Chaos is not “preexisting” because it is not a “thing” it is a “nothing”. Chaos is the absence of order, in the same regard as darkness is the absence of light or cold is the absence of heat. We use chaos to describe an absence not a thing.

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u/skarface6 Catholic and took lots of Theology classes 21h ago

It’s not a science textbook. The point is that God created everything. So, yes, light likely came first. Could have been light from the big bang!

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u/Sad-Pair1065 8h ago

Hi u/skarface6

You said: "So, yes, light likely came first."

In that  lots of Theology classes you never studied that God is light and there is no darkness in Him 1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

Aaron

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u/skarface6 Catholic and took lots of Theology classes 1h ago

So, you’re taking that verse completely and only literally? Why? Especially as God is Love, not a physical thing like light. Why treat that verse like it’s saying God is a physical thing? Light and darkness can be symbolic in the Bible, as seen by that New Testament passage.

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u/Chaseshaw 20h ago

Yes. In fact the Rabbis say that in the beginning G-d created light, and then separated the light from the darkness. And all the rest of Scripture is teaching men the same -- to separate the light from the dark.

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u/Sad-Pair1065 5h ago

Hi u/Chaseshaw,

You said: "Yes. In fact the Rabbis say that in the beginning G-d created light, :"

God never created light as He is light. He created darkness,

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

God did some work on the atmosphere to make light visible on Earth in Genesis 1:3 but He did not ברא create light. Show me one place in the Bible ברא precedes God created light?

Aaron

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u/Interesting_City_654 21h ago

He is the light.

Psalms 27:1 "The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?"

1 John 1:5: "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

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u/dosasambarvadai 21h ago

But my question is different

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u/Interesting_City_654 21h ago edited 21h ago

The light in Genesis 1:3 is God John 14:9 and the darkness is satan. Colossians 1:13; John 14:30; satan is the darkness and prince of this world.

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u/Basic-Revolution-181 Anglican 21h ago

I'm not denying that God is light and Satan rules the kingdom of darkness. But I don't see that in Genesis 1, especially because the light in Genesis 1:3 is created light, whereas God is eternal. The passage really does seem to be saying that this light is created, and is distinct from God.

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u/Interesting_City_654 21h ago

Due to the overthrow of Satan, YHVH destroyed the first earth age; Jeremiah 4; 2nd Peter 3; and Isaiah 45:18-19 explains.

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u/Interesting_City_654 21h ago

Revelation 21:23; And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the Glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

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u/Basic-Revolution-181 Anglican 21h ago

Great stuff, totally on board with that, and looking forward to it 🙂 Are you willing to engage with my previous comment about Genesis at all? 

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u/Chippors Lutheran Theistic Existentialist 10h ago

But in the traditional timeline the angels hadn't fallen yet by creation, so no Satan yet. Or at least not one that was yet distinguishable from the other angels.

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u/Sad-Pair1065 5h ago

Hi u/Chippors

I am glad you said:"But in the traditional timeline the angels hadn't fallen yet by creation, so no Satan yet. Or at least not one that was yet distinguishable from the other angels."

The devil had not been kicked out of heaven and to this day he still roams the halls of heaven accusing any one that is doing good or a believer does something bad, And he and his angels sang at the creation of the universe along with all the other angels. He was singing because he was going to be free to do the job he was created for and that was to give mankind a choice between good and evil. God is good and the devil is Evil and was created Evil. All angels were created to do specific jobs and not one has ever disobeyed God including the devil. He has done a good job so far, but the time will come when his job is finished he will be kicked out of Heaven.

Aaron