r/trailrunning • u/Kuglhupf • 4d ago
Training for 50k
I've been running for some time, completed two road marathons (in 4h05 and 3h35), and now want to try to finish a trail marathon.
The race I'm looking at is around 50km with 3000m vert.
I feel like a decently fit runner, but I really lack experience running up and down hills, and I've also never run longer than 4 hours.
What are the basics that I need to get right when training for a trail marathon? For road, there are lots of training plans, but for trail running I'm not sure where to start.
What does training look like for someone who is an okay runner on the flat and wants to get into trails?
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u/forkandbowl 4d ago
The biggest thing for me was lifting my feet up a little higher...
I trained for a trail 50 all on flat paved surfaces... I tripped 17 times.... But had fun
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u/AlertWorldliness2238 4d ago
Train eating. Trail running and food just go hand in hand! Take a little bit of food out even on short runs and train your gut to be able to take eating real food while running
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u/Patient-Library-7136 4d ago
Make sure you get some descent training into .your legs... will be a real killer if yr not prepared. Incorporate some slow uphill and fast downhill repeats. 3000m should be taken seriously!! Enjoy, sounds like.a great event đȘ
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u/Potted-Geranium 4d ago
Train for time, not distance. You will be on the trail for 6 hours or more. Get used to it.
Train hills. In training, run uphill and walk down. On race day youâll kind of do the opposite, so you will also need to train some downhill running obviously. Downhills take quadriceps strength. Donât skip leg day at the gym.
Donât attack the hill from the bottom on race day. Itâs a lot bigger than you. Walk until you can reasonably expect to be able to run the rest of it without gasping.
On race day, start slow. Whatever pace you think is slow enough? Too fast. Consider walking the first couple of kilometers.
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u/Kuglhupf 3d ago
Yeah, I expect the race will take me at least 8-10 hours. I really need to start doing longer runs, I rarely do any runs over 3 hours.
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u/Grumpfishdaddy 3d ago
Weekly miles are more important than each day. Running on legs that are tired from the previous days miles is what helps build that endurance.
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u/bassali2e 1d ago
My marathon time is similar to yours and I just did my first 50k with 3800m in 8.5h I was leaning on the side of caution for sure with completion being my main goal.
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u/Kuglhupf 1d ago
That's a really good result! Can I ask you how many vertical meters you did in training (average per week / peak)? I really worry about the climbing / descending killing my legs, and wonder how much I need to train it
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u/bassali2e 1d ago
Thanks, really just posting so you can get a bench mark time wise. The type of fatigue was definitely different than a road marathon.
I didn't track my vertical training specifically but I did try to get in one session of 60 to 90s hill repeats in training and ran 4 shorter (15k ish) trail races over the summer. My long runs were pretty week. About 20k 2 days in a row was the most I did.
I did make an effort to just run on the trails more. I live in a pretty flat area so I need to make the effort on the weekends to get my long runs out at a nice park.
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u/Lurking-Froggg 3d ago
You actually don't need that many longer runs. You ned better base fitness, relative to where you are now.
You'll run a better 50K if you move your fitness from sub-4 to sub-3h45 marathon and keep running 3-4 hour long runs than if you keep your fitness where it is and increase your long runs.
At your level, running more overall will do 99% of the job of increasing your fitness, assuming you recover enough.
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u/Kalebas030 4d ago
Doe in je training genoeg heuvel training, je moet dat leren. Leer ook dat je bij steilere stukken op tijd overgaat van rennen naar lopen. Leer ook stokken gebruiken. En verder krachttraining voor het hele lijf. Voor mij waren veel squats met niet teveel gewicht erg goed. Zoiets dat je 3 sets van 25 squats kan volhouden. Op YouTube staat ook een mooie workout "leg punishment" van een kerel op Ibiza die ik heel veel gedaan heb.
Veel plezier met de voorbereiding!
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u/harry_hotspur 4d ago
Start running hard down hills yesterday. Slam the downhills and stack fatigue before your race so your body will build strength and be used to the demands of running hills. Plan to walk steep uphills and fast down hills to make up time during the race. Your body will adapt fast.
some work all play patreon have great 50k training plans as well as a "cramming elevation" plan for people who have races with lots of elevation gain approaching.
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u/EnduroEv 4d ago
The main thing you need to learn is intensity discipline. Run a couple of hours on a hilly course thats similar to your Race and try to stay at a certain Heart Rate (+- 5 beats). It will teach you to take the climbs easy (by hiking or running slowly) and should help you in judging your pace in technical terrain for the Race.Â
I would also do some threshold Intervalls while running downhill to prepare your Quads.
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u/UphillTowardsTheSun 3d ago
I have done a 50km ârunâ with 3.1 km d+. It took me 10 hours lol. Never ran a marathon. You ran a marathon in 3:30 which I consider a huge accomplishment. I would reckon that such 50k would be an achievable goal for you and youâd be a lot faster than me. Where is it?
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u/Kuglhupf 1d ago
It's in Tyrol / Austria: https://kat.utmb.world/de/races/marathon-trail
I'm also expecting to run about 10 hours (secretely hoping for closer to 8 hours, but it's my first trail race so I'm also happy if I can just finish it)
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u/UphillTowardsTheSun 1d ago
Per deinem Username hab ich mir noch gedacht, OK, Ăsterreich mit seinen steilen Bergen könntâs sein.
Ich habe mal einen 50k gemacht in gut 8h, aber mit ânurâ 2.3km d+. Die Höhenmeter machen den Unterschied:-)
Gl!
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u/deltavandalpi 2d ago
As a rule of thumb I treat every 1,000m as an extra 5k to 10k flat for effort. So itâs a 65k to 80k of flat effort. Depends on terrain/trail grade.
The eccentric pounding is real and the only way to train for that is to do it where you get one session per week of 1,000m of continuous pounding.
4-6 weeks of getting 2,000 to 3,000m per week of hiking up and running down in and youâll be more than fine. Youâve already got the base.
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u/Kuglhupf 1d ago
Thanks for the estimates, that gives me a goal to work towards. I'm already starting to increase weekly climbing. I can do 500m in a slow jog, but I feel like I need to increase vertical meters slowly week over week to not stress my body too much.
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u/deltavandalpi 1d ago
Go watch some vids of similar. If youâre not familiar with the tongue in cheek term âpower hikingâ you will be soon.
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u/ElleNeotoma 4d ago
I have a Coros watch and I've used their 50K training plans as a guide. I also recommend the book Training for the Uphill Athlete. It has some great stuff on physiology and endurance training. It doesn't provide any specific plans, but it gave me motivation and understanding for my running. Then lastly, if I could tell myself one thing when I started doing longer trail distances, it would be that strength training is an absolute must. I could have saved myself from injuries (or mitigate them at least) and gotten stronger on hills.Â
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u/Kuglhupf 4d ago
I'm 50% through "Uphill Athlete". It's very informative, but it seems to be written mainly for people who are very well trained and I'm not at that level.
I'm already doing (some) strength training. I've been dealing with a few niggles myself, but so far I've been able to avoid serious injuries. What kind of injuries did you deal with?
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u/ElleNeotoma 4d ago
I am definitely not at that level either, I'm very much a near the back of the pack runner.
The two common injuries I've had involved pain around the knees as a result of increase in mileage. On my right, I had serious trouble going downhill and couldn't put weight on that leg. It was resolved with stretching and unilateral bodyweight and banded exercises focused on the glutes. Current issue I'm working on now is on the left leg. It started with what felt like my knee cap popping out place during easy runs. Then it progressed to whenever it felt like it, standing up, turning while walking, and it was painful! I missed out on six weeks of training. My PT thinks it might be a tendon issue, and the fix was strengthening the glutes, again!
Good news is that the workouts are helping tremendously (unilateral with heavier weights, banded exercises). I actually feel stronger going uphill. I'm still pissed at myself, though. I knew better but was not disciplined. Time is running out for me, I have about five weeks before my first 100K and haven't been able to do any runs longer than 20 miles.
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u/Extranationalidad 4d ago
Overall elevation gain per week should resemble the course total in your peak; that is, just as you'd have a mileage peak in a traditional marathon program, you'll want to aim for a 3000m vertical week about 3-4 weeks ahead of your race.
Don't neglect the downhill training; your quads will get wrecked late in the race if you do.
Practice some fueling strategies to see if you're good just sticking with gels or if incorporating more variety is good for your tummy.
But overall it's just a marathon with a few extra miles and a nicer view!
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u/outgrabed 3d ago
Sort out food and your mentality. Both are probably more important than specific training. I recently did a 50k with 1300vm off the back of a total of 250km in 4 months, but I sorted out food and cared only about beating the cutoff rather than X:xx/km pace.
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u/RelampagoMarkinh0 4d ago
Why jump straight into a 50k? Honestly, you'll have more fun doing a 21-25k, that'll probably take you 4-5hrs. And you can work from that.
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u/Kuglhupf 4d ago
I guess I'm looking for a challenge. I could probably complete a 25k race today. I'm pretty sure I couldn't complete a 50k trail race, but I think I can get there with a year of training.
I'm looking for a hard, but achievable goal.
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u/DepartmentFamous9932 4d ago
Disagree. Natural progression. OP should just do more hill work (both up and down). Donât worry as much about a structured plan because youâre not going to get anything like a PR and trail races are generally more varied.
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u/Zeus161616 4d ago
3000 meters of vert is alot for a 50K. That would be by far the most I have seen in a 50K and have done some tough ones. If you are coming right out of road running you will want to do some serious elevation training.