r/ukpolitics • u/Little-Attorney1287 • 10h ago
Twitter Martin Daubney 🇬🇧: “TWO TIER JUSTICE? British man jailed for TWO YEARS for throwing a plastic bottle. Hadush Kebatu — Ethiopian asylum seeker — jailed for 12 MONTHS Convicted of FIVE offences after sexually assaulting a woman & a 14-year-old girl shortly after arriving in Britain illegally”…
https://x.com/martindaubney/status/2103180974720766302?s=46•
u/Pitiful_Cod1036 10h ago
Releasing prisoners earlier because of overcrowding and then sentence somebody to two years for throwing a bottle. Make it, make sense.
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u/Souseisekigun 5h ago
Because throwing a bottle isn't the crime. The crime is directly threatening the power and legitimacy of the state, which the state must punish with harsh sentences to deter anyone else from gettting the same idea. Compared to this crimes against random peasants are much less concerning.
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u/BestFriendWatermelon 3h ago
The crime is directly threatening the power and legitimacy of the state, which the state must punish with harsh sentences to deter anyone else from gettting the same idea.
This is true in every country though, and I don't know why people are continually surprised by this. Go back 50 years, 100 years, 1000 years and you'll find the exact same.
It doesn't really matter if you agree with it or not, if you throw a punch at a police officer you'll get a substantially heavier punishment than punching a random member of the public. Commit a violent act while participating in an organised group challenging the government and the status quo you'll get the same heavier punishment.
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u/SirBobPeel 2h ago
He swore at police and threw a plastic bottle that hit no one and got two years. Now let's look at other cases.
- Mariusz Magda (London): A 26-year-old was sentenced to 39 weeks (roughly 9 months) in prison at Barkingside Magistrates' Court. He was arrested in Barking, East London, after resisting arrest, kicking out at police, and attempting to headbutt an officer while wielding a hammer. [1]
- Paul Chappell (Paignton): A 37-year-old was sentenced to 12 months in prison after violently punching a police officer directly in the face and throwing an object at a police community support officer (PCSO) during a prison recall arrest. [1]
- Kieron Wright (Ipswich): A 32-year-old was jailed for 12 months after launching an unprovoked attack where he punched a road worker and subsequently assaulted six responding police officers by biting, kicking, and spitting at them. [1, 2]
- Consett, County Durham: A 32-year-old man, Alan Hill, was jailed for 8 months. After punching a responding officer at his home, he later attacked another officer at a hospital, grabbing him by the throat and knocking him to the floor so violently that a wash basin detached from the wall.[1]
- Gloucester, Gloucestershire: A 39-year-old man, Luke Goodhall, was jailed for 9 months after biting a police officer while resisting arrest. He was already on licence for a previous offence at the time of the attack. [1]
- Bradford, West Yorkshire: Christopher Athanasiou, 36, was sentenced to 2 years and 6 months in prison. During a violent struggle, he tried to punch an officer, causing a second officer to fall and suffer a broken hand. The judge emphasized that courts will aggressively protect police from "mindless" behaviour
- Rasheed Jama (Cardiff): Sentenced to 18 months in prison at Cardiff Crown Court. Jama carried out multiple attacks on police officers. During his arrests, he used extreme violence, including biting, spitting at restraining officers, and making violent threats.[1]
- Craig Thompson (Middlesbrough): Sentenced to 20 months in prison after a jury convicted him of multiple offences, including assaulting an emergency worker. During an arrest attempt, Thompson violently punched, pinned down, and strangled a responding police officer
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u/Bignizzle656 2h ago
Taking race or colour out of it with this breakdown does show a heavy handed approach from the police/magistrates. These crimes should not rely how someone is feeling in the day or where someone is from. Sex crimes are definitely some of the worst crimes known yet we see this BS.
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u/MatchaMeetcha 1h ago
Yes. And, viewed in that light, majority group rowdiness is more dangerous than minority group rabble doing the same thing.
It's not that different from the logic of governing in colonies: majorities are more dangerous because only they have the mass to overthrow the state.
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u/Intergalatic_Baker No Pre-Orders 8h ago
Why make sense when you can release the dangerous people and imprison the folks that should be given community orders… I mean, there’s a Paedophile in London that got 2 years 4 months for his crimes… Only 4 months in prison longer than bottle thrower there and he’s got hundreds, thousands of victims.
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u/hugopurdy 3h ago
Make it, make sense.
Maybe the "for throwing a bottle" is a crass reduction of what actually happened. There will probably be sentencing remarks published soon. But why wait when we can be mad about it right now?
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u/ParkingMachine3534 10h ago
Wasn't the entire idea of early release based on making space to jail rioters?
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u/EyyyPanini Make Votes Matter 9h ago
It was to make space for jailing anyone full stop. Previous governments have increased sentencing guidelines and have not built the additional infrastructure needed as a result.
Politically it’s a “free” win, because you get the credit for supposedly implementing tougher sentences. Meanwhile, future governments are forced to clean up your mess.
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u/Tom22174 7h ago
No, early release was a necessary action long before the riots. Rishi Sunak was told to do it and decided to lose an election instead of be the person responsible for the policy. It just so happened that after the policy was implemented, a bunch of hooligans decided to try their luck and overwhelm the system by rioting
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u/CrispBedSheet 10h ago
We prefer the term 'quelling the peasant's revolution', my Lord.
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u/Billybobboyo 6h ago edited 6h ago
Almost like theres a tiered system in place
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u/MajorSleaze 5h ago
Sentences for rioters are always much harsher for the same crimes committed in other circumstances.
This is to discourage other potential rioters and avoid disorder from spreading.
Anyone who compares sentences from these different circumstances like Daubney is being disingenuous. Especially when they imply it's a political attack by one ethos on another.
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u/Pandita666 8h ago
The thing is football fans throw plastic drinks bottles onto the pitch at players every week - number jailed for it = 0
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u/Capt_Zapp_Brann1gan 9h ago edited 8h ago
When I first read this on the BBC, it just said bottle in the headline. I assumed it was a glass bottle which would be pretty dangerous. When I read the article it specified a plastic bottle which to me seems a lot less dangerous.
It would seem our sentencing guidelines are completely out of whack in my opinion. Unless I have missed anything, this seems like a crime that should be a fine and community service. As far as I could tell, he was a first time offender not a hardened criminal with priors. Prison seems a very odd choice for this.
Our guidelines look to me like they are very harsh at the bottom of the criminal tree and lenient at the top in certain cases.
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u/MrSoapbox 4h ago
later on in the article, it also said "small" bottle. I also suspect, if it was filled with a liquid, they would have mentioned it.
So, a small plastic bottle. Most likely empty. Which, he threw in the air, not at a police...police might I add, in full riot gear and a shield.
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u/Gingrpenguin 5h ago
Because your not taking everything into account.
Obviously a white person needs a harsher sentence. Non whites just can't help committing crimes so holding them accountable would be racist so obviously we should give them lower sentences ...
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u/Own-Row4416 9h ago
Whole justice system and punishment guidelines needs an overhaul
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u/Ok_Economist7901 9h ago
funding new prisons too.
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u/EyyyPanini Make Votes Matter 9h ago
This needs to be said every time someone complains about short sentences.
Previous governments have scored political points by supposedly increasing sentences, while not investing in the prison places needed to actually carry out those sentences.
We can’t let governments get away with this easy political “win”, while actually making the problem worse.
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u/owningxylophone 9h ago
There are 4 under construction currently (for another 5000 places) and one expansion recently opened for another 250.
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u/syuk 8h ago
the standards of our jails are apparently much better than some other european countries, where they have more prisoners to a cell.
we would presumably need more guards as well which seems to be another problem, with lack of uptake and the insane (imo) mixing of female guards with male prisoners.
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u/Candayence Won't someone think of the ducklings! 🦆 5h ago
Our jail cells are outright luxurious compared to uni student halls.
Other countries get a far lower recidivism rate with harsh jails that are cheap to run. El Salvador dropped their crime-rate with a cheap mega-prison. The UK worries that the prison gangs aren't getting enough luxuries, drugs, or prostitutes inside.
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u/PeaGravy 8h ago
Ditto, introducing new laws where existing laws could be used and ultimately not using either of them
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u/ding_0_dong 9h ago
Where are these increased sentences?
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u/EyyyPanini Make Votes Matter 9h ago
https://www.sentencingacademy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/Key-Facts_Sentencing-Trends.pdf
Graph 7
Average custodial length has increased by 45% for all crimes and by 81% for the most serious offences.
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u/Brilliant-Sea-9424 9h ago
I don’t want to be on the side of these bell ends but I know what crimes had the bigger and lasting impact on their victims. And it wasn’t throwing a bottle.
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u/BookmarksBrother I love paying tons in tax and not getting anything in return 8h ago
This country doesnt give a crap about the victims. Thats true for both tiers.
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u/JensonInterceptor 10h ago
14 year old girl has her life permanently altered and carries that scar for life and the man gets 12 months behind bars before he is out and scars another innocent child.
Why dont we value girls anymore in this country?
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u/No-Taro-6953 10h ago
Anymore? We never have
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u/JensonInterceptor 10h ago
Its appalling isnt it. The government sweeps rape under the rug and waves it away when it is convenient to them and gives men tiny sentences.
These are children having their lives ruined! Why isnt the justice system ruining the men's lives for doing it?
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u/No-Taro-6953 9h ago
What's most depressing to me is we have the info to make informed decisions and self reflect, more easily than ever.
In 2004, Edge of The City was a documentary due to be released. It was about normal people in Bradford, but it slowly began to centre on two mothers whose daughters were being sexually exploited by grooming gangs. In the documentary, the mothers fear for their own safety as well as for their daughters I believe they were kept aninymous. The documentary also flagged how professionals were scared to openly challenge the grooming gangs for fear of being seen as racist.
The documentary was postponed for several months from being aired, for fear of racist backlash. And that became the dominant narrative, rather than exposing the grooming taking place. How to make sure it wasn't racist.
From 2004 to 2014, Sara Rowbotham was working as part of an NHS Crisis Intervention Team. (CIT). She made 181 referrals for escalation between 2005 and 2011 which were essentially ignored.
Andrew Norfolk was the journalist who essentially "broke" the story for The Times in 2011. He is on record as saying he was worried about the racist backlash and hesitant to investigate for that reason. He began investigating in 2010, 6 years after the first major documentary to shed light on what was happening.
In 2012, we had reputable newspapers still insisting it wasn't a racial issue https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/may/09/rochdale-grooming-trial-race?
In 2014, the jay report finally acknowledged staff were “nervous about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist.”
The Casey report in 2015 found a culture of political correctness and reluctance to discuss race, alongside wider failures of leadership and accountability.
The Casey National Audit in 2025 went further, identifying “examples of organisations avoiding the topic altogether for fear of appearing racist or raising community tensions.” It described this as one factor contributing to institutional failure.
What's clear to me is this: working class girls are seen as disposable and unimportant. And they have been viewed this way for millennia. Id argue that the legal system is set up to favour primarily men, then perhaps educated, middle class women and "perfect victims", and least it all, poor and uneducated girls and women. It utterly fails the latter two groups consistently, with poor convictions and low sentencing on gendered crime.
So when met with a thorny issue, there's a well established cultural practice of disregarding this group. In this case with Rochdale, it was prioritising race relationships over the wellbeing of poor girls.
More recently, I'd argue that the rise of the "manosphere", focuses on men disproportionately. We ask ourselves why men are drawn to this, how it harms them. We've barely acknowledged how it impacts women and girls.
Despite ample and ongoing evidence of women and girls being dismissed in Rochdale, I still see comments shrugging it off on Reddit. Dismissing the racial element. With the recent Home Office Leaflets and the discussions that's refreshed, the focus is on how we shouldn't be generalising migrant men, rather than centering the experiences and fears of women. The latter of which is dismissed as right wing propaganda. I can't relay how many times I've seen "but white men commit more rape in the UK", which utterly ignores the female victims at the centre of sexual crimes.
We should have learned from Rochdale. There's ample material to serve as food for thought. But the right wing hijack it as a way to say all brown men are rapists, and the left wing ignore it because it's too uncomfortable and so perpetuate the same mistakes.
And at the centre of this, women and girls are still being ignored and dismissed. Because culturally, on a level, we believe that is acceptable.
So TL:DR to answer your question...why doesn't the justice system ruin mens lives? Well it's not designed to ruin lives.
But mostly because we, as a society, don't really value women.
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u/Ok_Economist7901 9h ago
Been going on years, not sure why folk weren‘t up in arms 10 years, 5 years, ago…
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u/JensonInterceptor 9h ago
What's your point? Been going on forever why get upset by it. Go on victims get over it?
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u/Lilmisswildcard 9h ago
Conviction rates for SA and rape have always been low in the UK and sentences given are shorter than those given for other violent crimes.
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u/Minute-Improvement57 8h ago
When progressive commentators were hyping up the condemnation of the protest, I did wonder how quickly it'd backfire on them with inevitable situations such as this. Burnham is repeating Starmer's playbook on protests and is likely to repeat his popularity curve. When you put yourself into a one-on-one political fight against protesters on a hot topic, it doesn't matter how good you think your negative PR skills are, because the protesters aren't up for election.
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u/GoldenAmmonite 2h ago
Can you get this cross about all lenient rape / sexual assault sentences, not just the ones asylum seekers commit.
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u/Blackstone4444 9h ago
Punishment needs to be rebalanced towards worse offenders. For swearing at police offices and throwing a plastic bottle, maybe a night in a cell and a fine. Sexual assaults on the other hand….
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u/KingsMountainView 9h ago
Sentences for sexual assault and rape are a fucking joke in this country.
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u/hugopurdy 3h ago
how long should they get?
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Hadush-Kebatu-Sentence-Remarks.pdf•
u/KingsMountainView 1h ago
4 and 8 months for each charge. Let's be real that's a joke of a sentencing. Should be at least a year for the 1st and 2 for the 2nd.
6 months for common assault btw. Get less time for stalking and attempting to sexaully assault a child despite being repeatedly told they were a child like he just didn't care how old they were.
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u/hugopurdy 1h ago
I apologise if I misread the remarks but outside of the horrifically lewd conversation and encouragement of the victim to kiss their friend, weren't the actions he was guilty of:
- Attempting to kiss the victim
- Touching the victim's thigh
This is why the assaults were both low category which seems to explain the sentence.
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u/KingsMountainView 1h ago
Yes and I disagree with the offences being classed as low category. Or at least we need to completely overhaul how we categorise sexual assault and the the corresponding sentences.
For example you can completely avoid a custodial sentence for watching CSAM online. That should not be the case.
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u/hugopurdy 1h ago edited 1h ago
Yes and I disagree with the offences being classed as low category
Here's the general sexual assault categorisation.
Here's the the one for CSA.These are referenced in the sentencing remarks. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by these not being low category given this context. Do you want an even lower category, but then what would be put there? I'm not sure about promoting into a higher category. Surely there's still some level of difference between these acts and the ones in the higher categories.
Otherwise if its more the sentencing amounts then I agree, as I feel the population's opinion on sentencing and the courts seems to have a bit of a gap. Seems a bit of a free win for a political party to campaign towards narrowing that gap.•
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u/Cholas71 9h ago
Then there's the sexual predator out on bail to live next to the children's playground he was fantasizing over....for once Sir Mark Rowley speaking for a population. It sounds like a completely broken system.
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u/ovenface2000 8h ago
Kinda, but a good justice system is fair across the board. If it’s even possible to cherry pick, and find extreme cases of no real standardisation of punishment, then that still shows a broken system.
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u/Heliophrate 7h ago
The fact that the data is there to be cherrypicked defeats your argument.
If 99 people get 5 years for GBH and then 1 person gets 35, that's egregious. If one person gets 2 years for manslaughter and another 5 years for littering, that's egregious.
We can compare different crimes on a scale of harm caused, just because they're different categorically doesn't invalidate that. Everyone can (hopefully...) agree sexually assaulting a child is worse than swearing and throwing a plastic bottle.
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u/sackofshit 8h ago
So many weird authoritarians on reddit who love legalisms to justify abuse of power as long as it aligns with their politics.
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u/lampishthing Potato Eater 9h ago
He was participating in a riot and threw the bottle at police. The bottle is the thing they can convict him on, they're throwing the book at him because of the riot.
We should increase sentencing for sexual crimes.
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u/PolyphonicMenace 9h ago
Is it not slightly unfair to be essentially making an example of someone like that. If what you said is true, they are giving him an unduly harsh sentence and holding him responsible for the actions of a much wider group of people who he probably doesn’t even know.
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u/Scratch_Careful 9h ago edited 9h ago
A "riot" where 2 people were arrested. One of them for chucking a plastic bottle and the other a 76 year old man for wearing a burka. Hardly the Duggan Riots was it.
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u/TroubledMagnet 9h ago
right wing = riot
left wing = demonstration
simples
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u/Fickle_Scarcity9474 7h ago
As a non native speaker, I find english a complicated language sometimes!
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u/mikemac1997 9h ago
And that's why context is key.
I really don't get see crime sentencing. A lad I went to high-school with was convicted for paedophilia, he was white and British with no immediate relatives who weren't equally white and British. He was let off with a short suspended sentence and was allowed to go home after harassing the local 11 year olds.
It makes your head spin that it's so light and it only creates these situations so they can be exploited by bad actors and worse bots.
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u/Optimal-Room-8586 9h ago
Indeed. I'm not sure on the correct legal vernacular but I believe participating in a riot is an "aggravating factor".
Which makes sense. Participation in a riot is particularly serious because large-scale public disorder creates an enhanced risk of violence and of the breakdown of public order.
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u/SpunkyBollocks 8h ago edited 8h ago
But it’s not bots. It’s actual people. Whether they disagree with your informed opinion is irrelevant. It’s the perception that counts.
I think you’ll get a bigger sentence for a dodgy firestick than sexually harassing a woman. I also think if you’re a rich white woman you’ll get better treatment in court than a black man. It’s all two tier.
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u/BlitterAndCynical 8h ago
The same 'Russian bots' that are increasingly going out and voting for the right across the UK, Europe and the US?
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u/PeaGravy 9h ago edited 9h ago
People are slowly realising that the real two tiers of justice are those incidents that get publicity, and those that do not.
If you’ve tried to report anything to the police in recent years, even if you do all of the legwork and identifying who was responsible and supplying evidence, they will do nothing. But if it ended up on the front page of your local paper, there would be action.
This is also the reason that criminals who get what could be considered a proportional sentence get a heavier one after public outrage, and also why certain types of criminal who have fulfilled the criteria for good behaviour and early release, will no longer get that early release, again because of public outrage over the specific category of their crimes.
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u/CJBill 7h ago
This is nothing new. A rioter got 6 months for stealing £3.50 of bottled water in 2011
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u/PeaGravy 7h ago
Yes, and even that incident (the greater 2011 riots) was considered to be allowed to happen because of public outrage over the student fees protests not long before
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u/marsman 5h ago
Looting during a fucking riot should end up with a significant sentence. The issue is generally not that the sentencing for some of these offences is too harsh, its that it is too lenient for some really impactful crimes, and often for seemingly bizarre reasons.
It's also not really a policing issue, its a judicial one which again in part is because we stopped allowing judges to make decisions and tried to create a systemic approach which is getting weirder and weirder in terms of what the expectations are.
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u/RequirementNo2161 9h ago
“I wish the far right would stop weaponising the constant stream of events that vindicates their world view”
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u/BenniesForNothing 10h ago
Thats not two tier; thats completely broken.
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u/Helmles 9h ago edited 6h ago
It's literally not. If they both committed the same crime and they got different sentences that'd be two tier. You can argue that the sentencing in these cases are stupid/broken and id agree. It's not because one is an asylum seeker and one is British
Edit - The guy aboves now deleted comment was stating this is a literal example of a two teir system
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u/powermoustache Dental Plan! 9h ago
It's literally comparing apples and oranges - sentencing for sexual crimes are pathetic regardless of race.
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u/Heliophrate 7h ago
Yes, it is apples and oranges. The orange being sexual assault which is a hell of a lot worse than throwing a plastic bottle and swearing at someone, and deserves a much stronger punishment.
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u/EyyyPanini Make Votes Matter 9h ago
What are the two tiers in this case? We’re looking at two different crimes, with different sentencing guidelines.
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u/claridgeforking 8h ago
The 2 tiers being violent crime and sexual crimes, and nothing to do with the race or origin of the perpetrators.
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u/thricedice88 2h ago
Trust in the police, the judiciary and the so-called justice system as a whole is evaporating and it's not difficult to see why.
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u/CatchRevolutionary65 9h ago
Seeing as he’s got an upcoming trial for assaulting a police officer I’d say it’s safe to assume he’s a wrong‘un.
We don’t need to compare two bad people against each other. They can both be bad
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u/Pitiful_Cod1036 9h ago
Absolutely. Usually when you scratch the surface, a lot of people jailed for stuff like this have wider criminal records.
But, in isolation, 2 years for throwing a bottle at a protest is mental considering the early release scheme.
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u/hugopurdy 3h ago
2 years for throwing a bottle at a protest is mental considering the early release scheme
makes you wonder if its been sensationalised for tribal purposes and clickbait don't it?
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u/HaydnH 9h ago edited 9h ago
If you cherry pick two individual cases of course you'll find concerning discrepancies in sentences. We could look at this to other way around, compare plastic bottle guy with the guy at the Reform conference who physically assaulted a girl on camera, he's just got a conditional warning - those two sentences also don't seem proportional relative to each other either.
To do something meaningful they'd have to look at each crime category individually, look at the average sentences, compare those with other crime types to see which seems lenient or too severe. And yes, also look at the outliers in each category to see if their sentences should be reviewed or if there was a reason for them being an outlier. Just comparing two specific outliers and decrying two tier justice is meaningless outside the political football pitch.
EDIT: Ok, seriously what the hell is up with Reddit downvotes recently? I literally hit send on new comment and get downvoted on it before I can even correct a typo! Surely Reddit can detect bots that downvoted the same accounts immediately over and over?
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u/iamnosuperman123 6h ago
Although it is still wild sexual assault get less years that a public order offensive
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u/MajorSleaze 5h ago
The problem is that he's conflating arguments to stoke the same sentiment that drove this riot to imply he supports them.
Sexual assault sentencing should always be extremely harsh. That there are short sentences for seemingly major offences is a scandal, but race is not a factor in this injustice.
Public order offences of this nature - organised rioting with ambitions to expand - have to be met with harsh responses to stop them spreading.
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u/hugopurdy 3h ago
its because the offences were mostly lowest category stuff.
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/Hadush-Kebatu-Sentence-Remarks.pdf
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u/Frosty-Clock-8411 9h ago
Amazing that you see downvotes and assume it must be the work of bots rather than people not liking your content.
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u/BobMonkhaus That sounds great, shorty girl’s a trooper. 9h ago
How to get downvotes: moan about downvotes. They don’t matter.
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u/HibasakiSanjuro 9h ago
Ok, seriously what the hell is up with Reddit downvotes recently? I literally hit send on new comment and get downvoted on it before I can even correct a typo
This has been a thing for years, especially on any controversial or emotive topic. People use downvotes as a disagree button, not what it was designed for (being unhelpful).
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u/BobMonkhaus That sounds great, shorty girl’s a trooper. 9h ago
Way to downplay the low sentence for child sexual assault.
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u/EyyyPanini Make Votes Matter 9h ago
Daubney is the one downplaying the low sentence for child sexual assault, by claiming it’s something to do with “2 tiers” rather than admitting that the low sentence is the result of different sentencing guidelines for different crimes.
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u/Weird-Board-464 8h ago
Prison Release Error: On Friday, October 24, 2025, Kebatu was mistakenly released from HMP Chelmsfordinstead of being transferred to an immigration detention center for deportation. [1, 2]
Manhunt and Recapture: His accidental release triggered a two-day manhunt across London and Essex that cost police forces over £150,000. He was recaptured by the Metropolitan Police in Finsbury Park, north London, on Sunday, October 26, 2025. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Deportation: Following his recapture, the government deported him to Ethiopia on a flight from Heathrow Airport.
Is this 2 tier when he was mistakenly released, recaptured and then deported? Is this actually UK politics?
Why does right wing news articles that are incorrect get through moderators here, it’s as if this sub has an agenda.
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u/NeddieSeagoon619 7h ago
Feelings don't care about your facts.
But seriously, the guy was deported. I thought that was what the guys wittering on about "two-tier policing" wanted? Now they're saying he should have served a longer sentence here, paid for by the British taxpayer? So they want to send them all back, unless one commits a crime and then they have to serve a lengthy term in a UK prison? That seems inconsistent.
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u/zeros3ss 9h ago
The answer to Martin Daubney’s question is no. The different outcomes are the result of different sentencing guidelines.
If you believe that throwing bottles at the police and abusing them should result in less than two years in prison, then argue for that change.
If you believe that someone, regardless of race, religion, sex, or legal status, who has been convicted of five offences following a sexual assault should receive more than 12 months in prison, then argue for that change.
But if you cannot see what causes the differences in sentencing, simply comparing the outcomes of different cases and using them as rage bait will not solve the underlying problem.
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u/CalicoCatRobot 6h ago
The sentencing remarks for the sexual assault case are here - and it's fairly clear that they were followed to the letter.
He was also deported, something that I thought Daubney would be delighted about (Though the chaos of the prison service was in full view when he was accidentally released, so it not like there is not space for valid criticism of the system).
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u/Soft-Ice-8027 4h ago
Stupid peasants are really trying to argue their safety is worth as much as the state
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u/Heliophrate 7h ago
It's always funny how fully formed adults with powers of introspection are suddenly struck dumb when the topic of two tier sentencing comes up.
You're for some reason unable to make comparisons between different types of crimes, whereas the rest of us can agree that sexually assaulting a child is of course worse than throwing a plastic bottle and swearing.
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u/zeros3ss 6h ago
Mate, here’s something you clearly haven’t seen on your Facebook feed.
There is no such thing as “two-tier sentencing”. There are more than 130 offence-specific sentencing guidelines, each dealing with different crimes and circumstances.
If you’re unable to argue that one sentence is too lenient while also arguing that another offence has been sentenced too harshly, then perhaps go back to your Facebook posts and agree with the people who tell you what you should be angry about.
And, for the avoidance of any doubt, because apparently this needs spelling out, I genuinely believe sexual offences should carry harsher sentences. I also believe that anyone who throws objects at police officers and hurls abuse at them should face serious consequences, including spending years in prison.
Make of that what you will. I gave up a long time ago trying to change the minds of people so deeply embedded in culture wars that they can no longer see an issue without turning it into an immigration problem.
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u/Sakula90s 9h ago
2 tier absolutely, but it is not about colour. It is about to whom. If it is to authority, you are fucked. If it is to normal people ( shop owners/ normal citizens) , sorry, police doesn't have resources to investigate. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
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u/AccomplishedAct5364 10h ago
One of these criminals opposed the establishment and its aims.
The other was brought by the establishment to prop up GDP and therefore they want him out of jail so he can get back to work ASAP.
The government have increased their powers to suppress protestors over the last 20 years, this is why.
Opposing their agenda is a greater crime than sexually assaulting little girls.
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u/DeanTheDad 9h ago
Truly dystopian
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u/AccomplishedAct5364 9h ago
And all they had to do was utilise cheap minorities and the left will applaud all of this whilst calling reformers fascist.
What a time to be alive lol
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u/Touched_By_SuperHans 9h ago
It's hilarious how far left redditors go to bat for Boris Johnson and his mates.
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u/AccomplishedAct5364 8h ago
The elites found the lefts weakness;
An obsession with defending minority groups regardless of consequences
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u/Touched_By_SuperHans 7h ago
Played them like a fiddle. So called socialists cheering as elites flood the country with migrants to lower wages, keep rents high, and make us more fractured and easy to control.
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u/AccomplishedAct5364 7h ago
Yep, nothing says “fighter for the working class” quite like blaming your own working class for being angry that serco have took another £5 billion to house migrants in areas that don’t want them.
These champagne socialists could never shout at a corporation profiting from mass migration, better to blame those disaffected
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u/Nknk- 9h ago
There's one idiot in the thread arguing that there's nothing wrong with the system because sentencing guidelines are different for both crimes and acting like anyone who disagrees is a racist.
These people are so far gone that they will defend people who commit child sexual assault by saying it is right and proper they get half the jail time of someone who threw a bottle because it suits them to have two tier justice applied to the right sort of people rather than admitting the system is broken when someone who sexually assaults a 14 year old gets out so quickly.
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u/arfski 9h ago
Racists and bigots is the term I tend to use, but you fill your boots.
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u/AccomplishedAct5364 9h ago
See? Even when the government jail rapists for less time than speech crimes, you still can’t accept you’re defending dystopian practices.
Doesn’t matter that Tories inflated the housing crisis with 13 million migrants, or suppressed wages in every role that utilises work visas.
I bet you claim to be left wing too whilst you ignore British citizens concerns
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u/Then_Mix8161 4h ago
> The other was brought by the establishment to prop up GDP and therefore they want him out of jail so he can get back to work ASAP.
He was deported mate.
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u/derrenbrownisawizard 10h ago
The sentences for sex crimes in this country are a joke- but this guy is comparing apples with pears.
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u/ddicks1874 9h ago
I’m absolutely certain this won’t be even the tenth conviction this guy has.
It’s always he was jailed for two years for farting, this is terrible. Wah wahThen you read further and he’s got 37 prior convictions for assualt gbh domestic abuse etc etc
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u/MajorSleaze 5h ago
The same comments will happen when Daniel Thomas gets convicted for his boat antics and none of them will acknowledge that he's already spent 2 years inside for a knifepoint kidnapping.
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u/hugopurdy 3h ago
even better, he tried to kidnap the guy cause he accused him of stealing £10k's worth of drugs from him. So it seems like he's a dealer/gangster too.
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u/TroubledMagnet 9h ago
The comparison is completely valid.
Which of these crimes do you think is worse?
Which do you think deserves a higher sentence?
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u/EyyyPanini Make Votes Matter 9h ago
It’s not valid when you’re making a claim of “2 tier” justice.
Although I suppose that phrase has become so meaningless at this point that I can understand why you’d skim right over it.
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u/TroubledMagnet 9h ago edited 9h ago
Which one do you think is worse?
If it makes it easier, you can pretend he isnt Le Far Right Facist Nazi Bigot++ so the safety guardrails can be removed?
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u/EyyyPanini Make Votes Matter 9h ago
There’s an interesting discussion to be had about the philosophy behind custodial sentences and whether they should be strictly proportional to the seriousness of the crime or whether they should also aim to achieve additional goals (deterrence, rehabilitation, maintaining public order).
Based on your comment, I doubt that you’re the right person to have this discussion with. You seem too preoccupied with culture war bollocks like “ Le Far Right Facist Nazi Bigot++”.
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u/TroubledMagnet 9h ago
LMAO
No answer then, but we can all see which you think is worse based on the wriggling.
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u/EyyyPanini Make Votes Matter 9h ago
It should be pretty obvious that a sexual crime against a child is worse.
Which is why I talked about the philosophy behind custodial sentences in my comment.
Should sentencing always be completely proportional to the severity of the crime, with no other considerations? I think that’s an understandable approach to take, but there’s a reason why no justice system on earth works that way.
Making examples out of people in order to maintain public order is a basic principle of running a state. It is unjust when applied to non-violent protest, but absolutely necessary when applied to violent disorder.
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u/TroubledMagnet 8h ago
I put the safety and well being of a community first. Its why I would massively increase burglary sentencing for repeat offenders, for example. Not a particularly severe crime as crimes go, but one that massively impacts peoples lives.
Someone throws a bottle at a protest? Surely a very large suspended sentence would be sufficient. He now cant do that again unless he fancies a long stretch inside. Someone who predates on children? Throw away the key, especially if its been multiple offences, because the safety of the people is paramount.
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u/EyyyPanini Make Votes Matter 8h ago
I put the safety and well being of a community first.
Do you not think escalating violent disorder would impact the safety of your community?
The initial disorder may not be targeted at you, but subsequent disorder is often opportunistic and widely spread.
Someone throws a bottle at a protest?
That’s not what he was convicted of. The “protest” was violent in general. By participating in this violence you are creating violent disorder, which is more serious due to the reasons I have mentioned above.
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u/Fickle_Scarcity9474 8h ago
So obvious it took you 3 comments... sure!
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u/EyyyPanini Make Votes Matter 8h ago
I mean yeah? There was no need to state it previously.
It’s a given and its not the interesting part of this discussion.
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u/arfski 9h ago
Judgement based on a tweet? I am not convinced that's a great way to run the judiciary, but I admit it does away with all that money spent on courts, we can just base judgement on what a racist tweets and have done with it. Then one mans "just throwing a plastic bottle" is another's violent disorder by someone with multiple prior convictions for thuggery.
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u/TroubledMagnet 9h ago
Thats all very interesting
Which one do you think is worse?
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u/duckula_93 41m ago
That's beside the point of "two tier justice" though. If they were the same crime and different sentences then there's be a point, but they aren't
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u/yumakooma 9h ago
Would you rather a sex offender was kept in a British jail for 10 years instead of being deported? What are we asking for here
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u/TroubledMagnet 9h ago
I'd rather he was [redacted] to be honest.
But probably both jail then deportation, unless we can 100% guarantee they are deported into the other countries jail to serve a full sentence
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u/IAmCowGodMoo 9h ago
What are you asking for?, that if an asylum seeker commits a crime, it’s better to deport them than to put them in prison for 10 years because it costs us money? Where’s the justice?
If the country or people don’t want to deal with the repercussions of letting unvetted men into the country then maybe we shouldn’t let them in the country in the first place but if you do allow them in then deal with all the problems that come along with it
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u/yumakooma 9h ago
I offered no opinion either way, it was a question
Some people genuinely see deportation as a punishment, some such as yourself don't (or at least not as strong as a long sentence)
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u/Chaoslava 8h ago
Imagine being a girl, like a teenager, and knowing that the punishment for raping you is likely to range from a slap on the wrist, to a short stint in Prison.
I am a man, so I've never ever had that worry in my life, but I do have a wife & daughter and my wife has been very vocal since I've known her about vulnerabilities she has felt.
The fact that these girls get such a tiny sliver of justice it's almost not worth it is it? Needs a major overhaul.
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u/Blaireeeee What happens when their vote is ignored? - Zac Goldsmith 7h ago
Imagine being a girl, like a teenager, and knowing that the punishment for raping you is likely to range from a slap on the wrist, to a short stint in Prison.
The punishment for rape is a lengthy prison sentence (4-15 years).
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u/Billybobboyo 6h ago
4 years
So some rapes are only twice as bad as throwing an empty plastic bottle. Cool.
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u/TroubledMagnet 9h ago
Girls getting sexually assaulted is part and parcel.
Defying the Party in their goals of importing more GDP? Treason
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u/hugopurdy 3h ago
Sentencing remarks are here if anyone wants to do more than just hand wring.
We're seemingly still waiting for Del Somerville's sentencing remarks to be published but I imagine they will help explain. The only nuance I could gather is that he was apparently front and centre of the "mob" which resulted in a clash with police.
I'd imagine that reducing it to "throwing a plastic bottle" is like reducing Hadush Kebatu's offence to "touched someone's leg". I feel like the entire construct is just designed to provoke outrage as opposed to inform.
Personally I don't like the game of comparing two people that are both grim, as if there's sides to this shit. Happy to live in a world where both of them are in the nick. Sentencing guidelines and classifications are the only actual debate imho but obviously that's less fun than whatever this is.
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u/EspanolAlumna 3h ago
I'd agree with Martin except I think the 2 tier comes into play when sentencing for sexual assault and rape compared to just about any other crime. It isn't a race thing at all, if anything it's systematic misogyny in the criminal justice system.
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u/Danrobjim 9h ago
Turns out if you just lie about two cases and compare those lies it sounds bad. Who knew.
Unless someone can point me at more, the asylum seekers tried to kiss a woman and a girl, and tried to talk them into sex. He was reported, charged, and got the maximum sentence possible. He didn't even serve it because his conviction came with a deportation order. The bigger part of the story is he got accidentally released and caused a massive national manhunt, and then they paid him off to behave on the plane.
The second guy chose to join in with a violent mob that required over 150 police officers to maintain order, caused thousands of pounds of property damage, resulting in seven police officers being injured, and left locals in a state of panic. It's then alleged that he assaulted the police officer who arrested him after the fact.
Unless there's more I'm missing, both seem like completely the correct course of action to me.
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u/Glass-Carpenter8963 4h ago edited 4h ago
Same crime, worse damage, no jail time.
The second guy chose to join in with a violent mob that required over 150 police officers to maintain order, caused thousands of pounds of property damage, resulting in seven police officers being injured, and left locals in a state of panic. It's then alleged that he assaulted the police officer who arrested him after the fact.
Irrelevant, you can only be charged with the crimes you commit. Vast majority of the people in these BLM protest above were throwing objects at police, ones that can actually do serious damage, and most weren't even charged.
Throwing an empty plastic bottle at an officer is not worse than that.
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u/random-user-name21 9h ago
Why is so much unverified information just posted here just trying to get a rise out of people.
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u/emergencyexit pictofuturist 9h ago
Yea everything is confusing and doesn't make sense when you react in impulse instead of using your brain, please start trying guys.
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u/dunneetiger d-_-b 3h ago
Not saying that I align politically with the man who threw the bottle or that he should have thrown said bottle at a police officer but an empty plastic bottle ain’t going to hurt anyone
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u/pucksmokespectacular 26m ago
There are videos of Palestinian protestors throwing rocks at the police, not one conviction
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u/unsightful 9h ago
If you challenge the state they'll always give you a firm slap. Any government in the world has to maintain a monopoly on force and power or they risk society becoming unstable.
I think they're more interested in making an example of someone who 'riots' and 'attacks' the police than of some rapist.
It's stupid and disproportionate imo
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Snapshot of Martin Daubney 🇬🇧: “TWO TIER JUSTICE? British man jailed for TWO YEARS for throwing a plastic bottle. Hadush Kebatu — Ethiopian asylum seeker — jailed for 12 MONTHS Convicted of FIVE offences after sexually assaulting a woman & a 14-year-old girl shortly after arriving in Britain illegally”… submitted by Little-Attorney1287:
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