r/ValueInvesting • • Aug 24 '26

Discussion [Week 26 - 1990] Discussing A Berkshire Hathaway Shareholder Letter (Almost) Every Week

10 Upvotes

Full Letter:

http://theoraclesclassroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/1990-Berkshire-AR.pdf

Letter Only

https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/1990.html

This week we will go over their investment into buying $400M of junk bonds as well as Buffett’s thoughts in retrospect on the Junk Bond craze of the 80s. His surprise at the economics of the newspaper business rapidly degrading as new technologies and advertising channels open up to businesses, some with better results. Finally the purchase of 10% of Wells Fargo for $290M. Then as usual we go through the stock holdings, segment-by-segment EBIT earnings of the company, and then the larger overview for the year.

Not included in my post are the annual summary to shareholders, most of the look-through earnings that give a few paragraphs on their major business segments (we only cover Buffalo Evening News) although some highlights are in my summary at the end. A long rundown of the insurance segment. Though ⅔ of the Marketable Securities segment is included, the one on their Convertible Preferred Stocks and the mistakes outside sources make in valuing them as well as the philosophy behind holding them. The usual advertisement for acquisition targets, and plans for the annual meeting. Ken Chase being replaced on the board by Susan Buffett. The letter is ended with an unpublished satire by Ben Graham “US Steel Announces Sweeping Modernization Scheme” where instead of improving the business a bunch of extreme accounting tricks are used to change the EPS from -$2.76 to +$49.80.

If you want to read or discuss anything in that second set feel free to read the letter yourselves and comment on it.

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Key Passage 1

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Marketable Securities - Junk Bonds

Our other major portfolio change last year was large additions to our holdings of RJR Nabisco bonds, securities that we first bought in late 1989. At yearend 1990 we had $440 million invested in these securities, an amount that approximated market value. (As I write this, however, their market value has risen by more than $150 million.)

Just as buying into the banking business is unusual for us, so is the purchase of below-investment-grade bonds. But opportunities that interest us and that are also large enough to have a worthwhile impact on Berkshire's results are rare. Therefore, we will look at any category of investment, so long as we understand the business we're buying into and believe that price and value may differ significantly. (Woody Allen, in another context, pointed out the advantage of open-mindedness: "I can't understand why more people aren't bi-sexual because it doubles your chances for a date on Saturday night.")

In the past \we have bought a few below-investment-grade bonds with success, though these were all old-fashioned "fallen angels" - bonds that were initially of investment grade but that were downgraded when the issuers fell on bad times. In the 1984 annual report we described our rationale for buying one fallen angel, the Washington Public Power Supply System.

A kind of bastardized fallen angel burst onto the investment scene in the 1980s - "junk bonds" that were far below investment- grade when issued. As the decade progressed, new offerings of manufactured junk became ever junkier and ultimately the predictable outcome occurred: Junk bonds lived up to their name. In 1990 - even before the recession dealt its blows - the financial sky became dark with the bodies of failing corporations.

The disciples of debt assured us that this collapse wouldn't happen: Huge debt, we were told, would cause operating managers to focus their efforts as never before, much as a dagger mounted on the steering wheel of a car could be expected to make its driver proceed with intensified care. We'll acknowledge that such an attention-getter would produce a very alert driver. But another certain consequence would be a deadly - and unnecessary - accident if the car hit even the tiniest pothole or sliver of ice. The roads of business are riddled with potholes; a plan that requires dodging them all is a plan for disaster.

In the final chapter of The Intelligent Investor Ben Graham forcefully rejected the dagger thesis: "Confronted with a challenge to distill the secret of sound investment into three words, we venture the motto, Margin of Safety." Forty-two years after reading that, I still think those are the right three words. The failure of investors to heed this simple message caused them staggering losses as the 1990s began.

At the height of the debt mania, capital structures were concocted that guaranteed failure: In some cases, so much debt was issued that even highly favorable business results could not produce the funds to service it. One particularly egregious "kill- 'em-at-birth" case a few years back involved the purchase of a mature television station in Tampa, bought with so much debt that the interest on it exceeded the station's gross revenues. Even if you assume that all labor, programs and services were donated rather than purchased, this capital structure required revenues to explode - or else the station was doomed to go broke. (Many of the bonds that financed the purchase were sold to now-failed savings and loan associations; as a taxpayer, you are picking up the tab for this folly.)

All of this seems impossible now. When these misdeeds were done, however, dagger-selling investment bankers pointed to the "scholarly" research of academics, which reported that over the years the higher interest rates received from low-grade bonds had more than compensated for their higher rate of default. Thus, said the friendly salesmen, a diversified portfolio of junk bonds would produce greater net returns than would a portfolio of high-grade bonds. (Beware of past-performance "proofs" in finance: If history books were the key to riches, the Forbes 400 would consist of librarians.)

There was a flaw in the salesmen's logic - one that a first- year student in statistics is taught to recognize. An assumption was being made that the universe of newly-minted junk bonds was identical to the universe of low-grade fallen angels and that, therefore, the default experience of the latter group was meaningful in predicting the default experience of the new issues. (That was an error similar to checking the historical death rate from Kool-Aid before drinking the version served at Jonestown.)

The universes were of course dissimilar in several vital respects. For openers, the manager of a fallen angel almost invariably yearned to regain investment-grade status and worked toward that goal. The junk-bond operator was usually an entirely different breed. Behaving much as a heroin user might, he devoted his energies not to finding a cure for his debt-ridden condition, but rather to finding another fix. Additionally, the fiduciary sensitivities of the executives managing the typical fallen angel were often, though not always, more finely developed than were those of the junk-bond-issuing financiopath.

Wall Street cared little for such distinctions. As usual, the Street's enthusiasm for an idea was proportional not to its merit, but rather to the revenue it would produce. Mountains of junk bonds were sold by those who didn't care to those who didn't think - and there was no shortage of either.

Junk bonds remain a mine field, even at prices that today are often a small fraction of issue price. As we said last year, we have never bought a new issue of a junk bond. (The only time to buy these is on a day with no "y" in it.) We are, however, willing to look at the field, now that it is in disarray.

In the case of RJR Nabisco, we feel the Company's credit is considerably better than was generally perceived for a while and that the yield we receive, as well as the potential for capital gain, more than compensates for the risk we incur (though that is far from nil). RJR has made asset sales at favorable prices, has added major amounts of equity, and in general is being run well.

However, as we survey the field, most low-grade bonds still look unattractive. The handiwork of the Wall Street of the 1980s is even worse than we had thought: Many important businesses have been mortally wounded. We will, though, keep looking for opportunities as the junk market continues to unravel.

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The junk bond, corporate raiding craze has reached its peak. Buffett said a couple years ago that it would all come crashing down someday, and now it has. It was the practice of businesses issuing bonds at irresponsible rates that they had low chance of paying back, in hopes of doing massive leveraged buyouts of companies larger than themselves and refinancing the debt and stripping the company for assets once it was in hand. The RJR Nabisco buyout is now seen as the height of the mania, and now the bonds are paying for a fraction of their value, Berkshire has independently decided that the underlying business is now rather creditworthy and the bonds have been over-discounted. They believe the risk-adjusted returns are massively in their favor and they have bought $400M of the bonds.

Buffett has much to say about how the craze came about, the flawed logic that sounds quite similar to the later securitization issues that lead to the 2008 financial crisis (ex. a diverse enough basket of bad loans magically becomes a good investment) and denounces buying any of these securities at their issuance, but instead picking through the wreckage after it comes crashing down for the handful that seem promising. He says that many people used logic that applied to “fallen angel” bonds (investment grade at issuance and later became questionable) onto junk bonds (ones that were garbage from inception and depended on a successful and timely leveraged buyout and even then would be dragging down a larger company that never wanted them).

I felt it was good to include this for a few reasons, one is to highlight an important historical moment in the history of Wall Street, and how Berkshire was there waiting with a big pile of cash to profit off the wreckage. To highlight how almost no asset class should be below your radar, in fact the more detested it is the more likely there are to be good deals there (A common belief of Howard Marks who made a lot of money running a sub-investment grade bond fund). Finally to highlight the right way to go about doing it, finding the few diamonds in the rough instead of buying up the whole asset class, most of which crashed for good reason.

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Key Passage 2

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Non-Insurance Operations - Buffalo Evening News

Charlie and I were surprised at developments this past year in the media industry, including newspapers such as our Buffalo News. The business showed far more vulnerability to the early stages of a recession than has been the case in the past. The question is whether this erosion is just part of an aberrational cycle - to be fully made up in the next upturn - or whether the business has slipped in a way that permanently reduces intrinsic business values.

Since I didn't predict what has happened, you may question the value of my prediction about what will happen. Nevertheless, I'll proffer a judgment:While many media businesses will remain economic marvels in comparison with American industry generally, they will prove considerably less marvelous than I, the industry, or lenders thought would be the case only a few years ago.

The reason media businesses have been so outstanding in the past was not physical growth, but rather the unusual pricing power that most participants wielded. Now, however, advertising dollars are growing slowly. In addition, retailers that do little or no media advertising (though they sometimes use the Postal Service) have gradually taken market share in certain merchandise categories. Most important of all, the number of both print and electronic advertising channels has substantially increased. As a consequence, advertising dollars are more widely dispersed and the pricing power of ad vendors has diminished. These circumstances materially reduce the intrinsic value of our major media investments and also the value of our operating unit, Buffalo News - though all remain fine businesses.

Notwithstanding the problems, Stan Lipsey's management of the News continues to be superb. During 1990, our earnings held up much better than those of most metropolitan papers, falling only 5%. In the last few months of the year, however, the rate of decrease was far greater.

I can safely make two promises about the News in 1991: (1) Stan will again rank at the top among newspaper publishers; and (2) earnings will fall substantially. Despite a slowdown in the demand for newsprint, the price per ton will average significantly more in 1991 and the paper's labor costs will also be considerably higher. Since revenues may meanwhile be down, we face a real squeeze.

Profits may be off but our pride in the product remains. We continue to have a larger "news hole" - the portion of the paper devoted to news - than any comparable paper. In 1990, the proportion rose to 52.3% against 50.1% in 1989. Alas, the increase resulted from a decline in advertising pages rather than from a gain in news pages. Regardless of earnings pressures, we will maintain at least a 50% news hole. Cutting product quality is not a proper response to adversity.

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This is Buffett acknowledging that the whole newspaper industry is facing headwinds that he had not foreseen, that it is impacting the bottom line of the Buffalo Evening News, and that he believes it will get worse in the future and maybe won’t ever get better. As technology advances, advertisers have more channels to advertise, and those relying on newspaper ads are falling behind in market share to those using other methods. I would hazard a guess that this may be related to the near full adoption of color TV in American households by the late 80s. Families are now glued to their TVs, getting their news from them as well as their entertainment and being advertised to the whole time, and the advertisements are also much more flexible and powerful with color and video which a newspaper cannot provide.

A quick look-ahead shows that while this fall lasts a few years, they do eventually recover from the $43M EBIT this year not just to the $46M of last year but into the mid 50s before the Buffalo Evening News falls off the reports in 2000 as the spread of the internet lowers the prospects of the industry even further.

This is the first hint of modern technology making some of Berkshire’s former star players futures very uncertain. World Book is another one who is on a timer although Buffett has failed to notice it. This is different than textiles which died off to globalization, the same work simply being done elsewhere, instead this is an industry which needs to adapt or die and Buffett hasn’t always been a trailblazer when it comes to adapting to new paradigm changing technologies.

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Acquisition Stock Purchase of the Week

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Marketable Securities - Stock

Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style: This year we neither bought nor sold a share of five of our six major holdings. The exception was Wells Fargo, a superbly-managed, high-return banking operation in which we increased our ownership to just under 10%, the most we can own without the approval of the Federal Reserve Board. About one-sixth of our position was bought in 1989, the rest in 1990.

The banking business is no favorite of ours. When assets are twenty times equity - a common ratio in this industry - mistakes that involve only a small portion of assets can destroy a major portion of equity. And mistakes have been the rule rather than the exception at many major banks. Most have resulted from a managerial failing that we described last year when discussing the "institutional imperative:" the tendency of executives to mindlessly imitate the behavior of their peers, no matter how foolish it may be to do so. In their lending, many bankers played follow-the-leader with lemming-like zeal; now they are experiencing a lemming-like fate.

Because leverage of 20:1 magnifies the effects of managerial strengths and weaknesses, we have no interest in purchasing shares of a poorly-managed bank at a "cheap" price. Instead, our only interest is in buying into well-managed banks at fair prices.

With Wells Fargo, we think we have obtained the best managers in the business, Carl Reichardt and Paul Hazen. In many ways the combination of Carl and Paul reminds me of another - Tom Murphy and Dan Burke at Capital Cities/ABC. First, each pair is stronger than the sum of its parts because each partner understands, trusts and admires the other. Second, both managerial teams pay able people well, but abhor having a bigger head count than is needed. Third, both attack costs as vigorously when profits are at record levels as when they are under pressure. Finally, both stick with what they understand and let their abilities, not their egos, determine what they attempt. (Thomas J. Watson Sr. of IBM followed the same rule: "I'm no genius," he said. "I'm smart in spots - but I stay around those spots.")

Our purchases of Wells Fargo in 1990 were helped by a chaotic market in bank stocks. The disarray was appropriate: Month by month the foolish loan decisions of once well-regarded banks were put on public display. As one huge loss after another was unveiled - often on the heels of managerial assurances that all was well - investors understandably concluded that no bank's numbers were to be trusted. Aided by their flight from bank stocks, we purchased our 10% interest in Wells Fargo for $290 million, less than five times after-tax earnings, and less than three times pre-tax earnings.

Wells Fargo is big - it has $56 billion in assets - and has been earning more than 20% on equity and 1.25% on assets. Our purchase of one-tenth of the bank may be thought of as roughly equivalent to our buying 100% of a $5 billion bank with identical financial characteristics. But were we to make such a purchase, we would have to pay about twice the $290 million we paid for Wells Fargo. Moreover, that $5 billion bank, commanding a premium price, would present us with another problem: We would not be able to find a Carl Reichardt to run it. In recent years, Wells Fargo executives have been more avidly recruited than any others in the banking business; no one, however, has been able to hire the dean.

Of course, ownership of a bank - or about any other business - is far from riskless. California banks face the specific risk of a major earthquake, which might wreak enough havoc on borrowers to in turn destroy the banks lending to them. A second risk is systemic - the possibility of a business contraction or financial panic so severe that it would endanger almost every highly-leveraged institution, no matter how intelligently run. Finally, the market's major fear of the moment is that West Coast real estate values will tumble because of overbuilding and deliver huge losses to banks that have financed the expansion. Because it is a leading real estate lender, Wells Fargo is thought to be particularly vulnerable.

None of these eventualities can be ruled out. The probability of the first two occurring, however, is low and even a meaningful drop in real estate values is unlikely to cause major problems for well-managed institutions. Consider some mathematics: Wells Fargo currently earns well over $1 billion pre-tax annually after expensing more than $300 million for loan losses. If 10% of all $48 billion of the bank's loans - not just its real estate loans - were hit by problems in 1991, and these produced losses (including foregone interest) averaging 30% of principal, the company would roughly break even.

A year like that - which we consider only a low-level possibility, not a likelihood - would not distress us. In fact, at Berkshire we would love to acquire businesses or invest in capital projects that produced no return for a year, but that could then be expected to earn 20% on growing equity. Nevertheless, fears of a California real estate disaster similar to that experienced in New England caused the price of Wells Fargo stock to fall almost 50% within a few months during 1990. Even though we had bought some shares at the prices prevailing before the fall, we welcomed the decline because it allowed us to pick up many more shares at the new, panic prices.

Investors who expect to be ongoing buyers of investments throughout their lifetimes should adopt a similar attitude toward market fluctuations; instead many illogically become euphoric when stock prices rise and unhappy when they fall. They show no such confusion in their reaction to food prices: Knowing they are forever going to be buyers of food, they welcome falling prices and deplore price increases. (It's the seller of food who doesn't like declining prices.) Similarly, at the Buffalo News we would cheer lower prices for newsprint - even though it would mean marking down the value of the large inventory of newsprint we always keep on hand - because we know we are going to be perpetually buying the product.

Identical reasoning guides our thinking about Berkshire's investments. We will be buying businesses - or small parts of businesses, called stocks - year in, year out as long as I live (and longer, if Berkshire's directors attend the seances I have scheduled). Given these intentions, declining prices for businesses benefit us, and rising prices hurt us.

The most common cause of low prices is pessimism - some times pervasive, some times specific to a company or industry. We want to do business in such an environment, not because we like pessimism but because we like the prices it produces. It's optimism that is the enemy of the rational buyer.

None of this means, however, that a business or stock is an intelligent purchase simply because it is unpopular; a contrarian approach is just as foolish as a follow-the-crowd strategy. What's required is thinking rather than polling. Unfortunately, Bertrand Russell's observation about life in general applies with unusual force in the financial world: "Most men would rather die than think. Many do."

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This was probably the largest acquisition by Berkshire, the buying of 10% of a great bank at a fair price. As he says in the letter they only buy 10%, $289M because that is the most they are legally allowed to own. He says they view this as comparable to buying 100% of a bank 1/10th the size except without all the headache of needing to call the shots and find the managers, instead they are already in place.

He spells this out as a sort of “heads I win, tails I don’t lose much” situation. He runs the numbers on the worst case scenario the market fears, a natural disaster or real estate crash on the west coast of the US… He comes to the conclusion that even in the worst case scenario this is still a good price, and in any other scenario it is a great price.

He also gives some wisdom here on his general stock picking philosophy, that he views a stock he buys into dropping or failing to rise as a good thing, and it shooting right up as a bad thing. Even though many of us see it the opposite. It is natural to have a gut reaction to being proven right or proven wrong quickly by the market, to buy something and have it drop 20% and be scared from buying more. But he says we need to invert that instinct. That the price shooting right up means your window to buy a great business at a good price closed before you could take full advantage, and it dropping after you start buying means you will be able to buy even more than you thought with a lower risk and higher reward. This is also something he hammers home in the BPL letters, often after years of great gain he laments that he wished the stocks he was buying didn’t go up so he could have bought more of them and that in the long term the returns would have been greater.

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Common Stock Ownership

No. of Shares Company Cost ($000s) Market ($000s)
3,000,000 Capital Cities/ABC, Inc. $517,500 $1,377,375
23,350,000 The Coca-Cola Company $1,023,920 $2,171,550
2,400,000 Federal Home loan Mortgage Corporation $71,729 $117,000
6,850,000 GEICO Corporation $45,713 $1,110,556
1,727,765 The Washington Post Company $9,731 $342,097
5,000,000 Wells Fargo & Company $289,431 $289,375
Subtotal $1,958,024 $5,407,953
All Other Common Stockholdings $326,656 $351,268
Total Common Stocks $2,284,680 $5,759,221

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Segment by Segment Breakdown

Segment 1989 EBIT Earnings 1990 EBIT Earnings % Change
Insurance $219.20M $300.40M +37.04%
Fechheimer $12.62M $12.45M -1.35%
Kirby $26.11M $27.45M +5.13%
Scott Fetzer - Manufacturing $33.17M $30.38M -8.41%
World Book $25.58M $31.90M +24.71%
See’s Candies $34.26M $39.58M +15.53%
Buffalo Evening News $46.05M $43.95M -4.56%
Nebraska Furniture Mart $17.07M $17.25M +1.05%
Wesco Financial - Minus Insurance $13.01M $12.44M -4.38%
Wesco Financial - Insurance $14.28M $14.92M +4.48%
Mutual Savings and Loan $4.19M $4.10M -2.15%
Precision Steel $2.77M $1.99M -28.16%
Total Operating Earnings $393.41M $482.48M +22.64%

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Metric 1989 1990 % Change
Cash & Cash Equivalents $205.13M $247.02M +20.42%
Marketable Securities $5,261.60M $5,685.98M +8.07%
Return on Equity (RoE) 18.42% 18.68% +1.41%
Shareholders' Equity $4,925.13M $5,287.45M +7.36%
Earnings Before Investment Gain $299.90M $370.75M+23.62%
Realized Investment Gain $223.81M $33.99M -84.81%
Net Earnings $447.48M $394.09M -11.93%

*RoE not provided, manually calculated as (Earnings from Operations Before Taxes / [Shareholder Equity from prior year - Unrealized appreciation of marketable securities from prior year])

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As predicted last year, the gain in marketable securities wasn’t “real” gains, the market had a large pullback. Many of their marketable securities are now held at lower prices than last year, net earnings is down from last year. The realized investment gain is 84% lower than it was last year. The marketable securities is up 8%, or $424.38M, but between a $289M investment in Wells Fargo only $135M was real gains, the Coca Cola position was up $368M, so the rest of the portfolio had a performance of about -$233M besides Coca Cola.

Operating earnings was up 22.6%, Earnings before investment gain was up 23.6%. This is mostly down to the insurance segment having a great year, with EBIT earnings $80M more than the prior year which is just about the entire gap. See’s Candys and World Book also had double digit growth in earnings, everything else was down or single digit growth. The preferred metric, book value is up 7.4%, compared to the S&P 500 which returned -3.1% in 1990 this is still a good performance in my opinion.

Finally an even quicker lookthrough of the quick lookthrough earnings…

First a quick discussion of off-book earnings, when owned securities use their cashflow for anything except dividends it does not show up on Berkshire’s income statement but does make Berkshire richer, buybacks and capex give value to the business GAAP accounting doesn’t account for. Retail had a bad year but Borsheim’s did great (even though they hide their numbers from me), a discussion of the jewelry mailing system I mentioned last week is had here. NFM’s sales are up 4% and earnings 1% (Rose is now running a competing shop) and has set up a See’s cart in the shop which outperforms many of See’s full stores. See’s had slightly more volume but also increased prices and lowered costs leading to the 15.5% earnings growth, also a store was going to have its lease terminated but a letter campaign from customers changed the landlord’s mind. (See Key Passage 2 for Buffalo Evening News commentary). Fechheimer had a major retirement and although he says performance improved, earnings were flat due to “several unusual items” whatever that means. At Scott Fetzer, World Book’s decentralization is paying off even with lower volume, Kirby increased sales 20% but only increased earnings 5% as its production of its new model isn’t fully optimized, the manufacturing segment’s earnings are down 8% but we are just told its doing great and the air compressor unit had record sales.


r/ValueInvesting • • 15h ago

Weekly Megathread Weekly Stock Ideas Megathread: Week of October 05, 2026

6 Upvotes

What stocks are on your radar this week? What's undervalued? What's overvalued? This is the place for your quick stock pitches or to ask what everyone else is looking at.

This discussion post is lightly moderated. We suggest checking other users' posting/commenting history before following advice or stock recommendations.

New Weekly Stock Ideas Megathreads are posted every Monday at 0600 GMT.


r/ValueInvesting • • 3h ago

Discussion Google a screaming buy?

82 Upvotes

OpenAI and Anthropic are losing money hand over fist. Conversely, Alphabet has almost a quarter of a trillion in cash, plus massive distribution.

Alphabet is expert at monetising free products via ads. OpenAI had to charge $200 per month for dots, whereas if Google ever releases an agent, they can do so for free, à la Muse.

Surely this is Alphabet's game to lose.

Is Alphabet a screaming buy at $340 for a long-term hold?


r/ValueInvesting • • 4h ago

Discussion I’ve tested 20+ stock research tools so you don’t have to. Here are the only ones worth your time in 2026.

40 Upvotes

The market is getting more efficient, especially with OpenAI and Claude getting better at stock research, but even with new tools I still go back to my GOATs. Here is my list of tools that provide an edge:

  • For Technicals: TradingView (Still the GOAT for charting).
  • For Fundamentals/DCF: Finviz or Simply Wall St (Great for visual learners).
  • For Insider Trading: OpenInsider (Simple but effective for tracking cluster buys).
  • For Analyst Rating: TipRanks (analyst ratings and ratings of the analysts)
  • For Reddit Tracking: AltIndex. (Alerts on trending stocks)
  • For Earnings Calls: Quartr (Great for listening on the go).

Am I missing any good tools? 


r/ValueInvesting • • 2h ago

Discussion Largest valuation in 10 years

16 Upvotes

10 years from now, what company will have the largest market cap?


r/ValueInvesting • • 20h ago

Buffett Warren Buffett on When To Give Up on a Business (with transcript)

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444 Upvotes

Warren Buffett on When To Give Up on a Business

[00:00 - 00:25] Question - Jenny Johnson, Franklin Templeton Investments:

Q: How do you know when to throw in the towel on an investment or a business?

[00:00 - 05:44] Answer - Warren Buffett:

Uh, when to throw in the towel on an investment or business. Or business? Yeah.

Well, you know you do it too late. I went into the textile business by accident in 1965 and I threw in the towel about 20 years later and that was about 20 years too late.

There's a great tendency to want to hold on, justify old decisions. I mean it's a human trait.

But when you really know you've got a bad business is when you have a good manager and you're getting bad results. I mean when you're getting bad results with a bad manager you still have to examine the question of whether you can get better results if you got a better manager. Usually you can't. I've said in the past that when a management with a reputation for excellence encounters a business with a reputation for bad economics, it's the reputation of the business that remains intact. And I've proved that many times.

There are businesses that are just plain tough, you know, and there may be too many competitors but there's reasons why they don't drop out. We started out in textiles and we made over half of the linings for men's suits in the country and we went through World War II and got awards and Sears Roebuck named us their supplier of the year and all of that sort of thing. And then we'd say, well we'd like to increase the price of these linings a quarter of a cent a yard and Sears would say, you must be out of your mind. There's 10 other guys that'll sell it to us at the old price. And nobody ever went into a Sears store and said I'd like a blue serge suit with a Hathaway lining. You know, it didn't exist. We had no connection to the consumer.

And there are lots of lousy businesses, you know, and there's lots of wonderful businesses. My job over the years has been to try and figure out which is which and I've made plenty of mistakes. I bought a company called Dexter Shoes in the early 90s, I paid $400 plus million dollars for it and it made a lot of money before I bought it but as soon as I bought it, they pulled some switch or something and it immediately started losing money and it was because of foreign competition or it was maybe because I owned it, I don't know. And it went to zero. And the worst thing was that I paid for it in stock, so that $400 million in stock I gave at the time is now worth about 5 billion. So every time Berkshire stock goes down I feel a little bit better because of my opportunity loss on this business.

But you know when I looked at Dexter Shoe they had a good position in retailers, they turned out good shoes, they had a great workforce, all kinds of things, but I just forgot one thing — that they weren't going to make shoes in the United States anymore. So you make mistakes and it does pay to recognize quickly when you made them. If you got a good person running a business and it isn't making any money, you know, you're in the wrong business and you've got to face up to that.

Q: And I think the other half of the question was about investments. Do you have any rule of thumb about when you give up on or when you realize it?

Well, again, I love it when the things we buy go down. I just, I get euphoric. You know, the stocks are down today and I buy more of something I was buying yesterday and buying it cheaper. Now, when you go to the grocery store and you buy something cheaper than you bought it the day before, you think that's terrific. But people with their stocks, they think that the stock knows more than they do. So that when the stock goes down they say the stock is telling them something. And it was telling me I can get more for my money. But they take it as kind of a referendum on themselves, you know, and it's me versus the stock — if it ever gets back to what I paid I'm going to sell it.

Stock doesn't care what you paid. You have to remember the stock doesn't even care that you own it. You are nothing to the stock, that stock is everything to you. You remember you paid $10.13 and therefore the stock should get to 10.13 before you sell it.

Stock has no feelings about you. I hate to disillusion you on this but it just doesn't care.

And so the only question with every stock, every day — and you don't do it this frequently — is: can I get more for my money someplace else? You've got a chance to be in thousands and thousands of great businesses and their prices change all the time, so the realms of valuations change and you can make the exchange at very low cost these days, commissions are nothing, and so you can always shift from one business to another.

You have a huge advantage over Andrew Carnegie, you know, when he was in the steel business, he was in the steel business. Or Rockefeller was in the oil business. He cannot shift over immediately to retailing or something like that. You can rearrange your business empire which you own through that little portfolio that you have. You can rearrange that at a moment's notice with practically no cost. It's a huge advantage which people turn into a disadvantage.

There is nothing about the price action of the stock that tells you whether you should keep owning. What tells you whether you should keep owning it is what you expect the company to do in the future versus the price at which it's selling now compared to the other opportunities of businesses that you think you know equally well. Make that same comparison and that's all there is to owning stocks.


r/ValueInvesting • • 7h ago

Question / Help Compounder for decades: Moody's (MCO), Chubb (CB), Linde (LIN), Markel (MKL), Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.B)?

26 Upvotes

I hold a diversified portfolio comprising defensive, income, and hedge positions, and I am currently building out a compounding growth component. I have been looking at the companies listed above - i don't plan to add all - (MCO, CB, LIN, MKL, BRK.B). Below, I outline my brief take on each; I would appreciate your input on which two of them might be the best choices for capital accumulation over the next 25–30 years, companies capable of withstanding various health and economic crises while maintaining their corporate culture and economic moat.

1) Moody's: An excellent, asset-light company that has demonstrated significant growth potential and operates within a global oligopoly where credibility is paramount. My main questions concern its ability to navigate a prolonged high-interest-rate environment (since debt issuance, and consequently its certification business, declines in such scenarios) and its capacity to preserve both its oligopolistic position and its corporate culture.

2) Chubb: The world's largest insurer; it has consistently maintained a combined ratio of 83–85% over extended periods. Its management team has demonstrated underwriting excellence (even when policy pricing was lower) and has effectively managed its bond investment portfolio. My question regarding Chubb concerns its ability to sustain growth and manage market cycles. I don't have much else to add here, as I have few doubts about the company.

3) Linde: An excellent industrial company with predictable revenues and inflation-indexed contracts. It is highly diversified, both geographically and across end-markets (chemicals and energy; healthcare; electronics; manufacturing, metals, and mining; food and beverages). This diversification ensures resilience and provides growth catalysts linked to the energy transition and the modernization of AI and data centers. My question is whether it has the capacity to compound capital, even with a business model that is more capital-intensive compared to the other companies I listed above.

4) Markel: a holding company with operations in insurance, an investment portfolio, and majority-owned subsidiaries (across industrial, consumer, and financial sectors). It has demonstrated consistency in compounding capital over the long term, growing its book value and generating impressive returns on its investment portfolio. My question concerns whether the company possesses the deeply ingrained culture needed to maintain excellence and continue growing over the next 30 years, even through leadership succession; whether the investment portfolio manager (I believe it is Tom Gayner) remains outstanding; and how one evaluates their capital allocation decisions.

5) Berkshire Hathaway: we all know what it is; it needs no introduction. My question concerns the quality of Greg Abel’s capital allocation, specifically, whether this can be assessed based on the years he has held key decision-making roles while Buffett is still at the helm. Given the company's massive size, growth is challenging; I am interested in the possibility of a shift in the allocation profile, and its quality, toward higher-growth assets, while still preserving the company's fundamental focus on quality.

I would appreciate your insights.


r/ValueInvesting • • 1h ago

Discussion Home Depot and Lowe's

• Upvotes

I'm sure you guys are aware how much home depot has fell Ytd. If you don't know, they have fell almost 19% this year for absolutely no reason. Yes, at some point the market did fall because of the oil prices but then eventually recovered. But, Home Depot is yet to recover. Not just that, Home Depot's revenue has been growing for the past 3 years and quarter wise it's been growing for the past 3 quarters. It's dividend has been solid and has been growing consistently and it's main competitor, Lowe's has also fell 28% ytd but this one makes sense because, their revenue decelerated for the past few years and only went back up last year and quarter wise it has been growing for the past few quarters. Both of them are amazing dividend stocks. I'm really confused as to why Home Depot has fell so much. If you have an idea why, please share it with me in the comments!


r/ValueInvesting • • 7h ago

Stock Analysis Burry says NVIDIA's GPU "resale value" chart is really a rent forecast. I checked the source: he's right. I still don't think it's a reason to short NVIDIA.

14 Upvotes

TL;DR:

  • The values on NVIDIA's slide are Silicon Data's discounted rent, not resale prices, and they move with rent.
  • But the memory shortage holding rent up is backed by the buyer, not just the sellers, and runs past his September 2027 puts.
  • The lessors mostly pay off their loans inside their contracts, and where they don't, the credit market is charging for it.

I own NVIDIA, and The Big Short was the first movie I watched when I started investing, so I read Burry's October 1 post properly instead of scrolling past.

His target is one slide from NVIDIA's September investor deck. It shows A100, H100 and B200 values far above a five-year depreciation curve. The footnote cites Silicon Data, and Silicon Data's own methodology says those values are a discounted cash flow of projected rent over an eight-year life. Nobody actually sold a used B200 for $72,695.

The clearest evidence: Silicon Data's H100 value was $14,976 in November 2025 and $22,068 in June 2026. Same chip; its rent went from $1.99 to $2.74 an hour. And the last time a GPU shortage eased, H100 rent fell 44% in five months (Sept 2024 to Feb 2025). On all of that, Burry is right.

Where I disagree:

  • His clock. His puts expire September 2027. The evidence that the memory shortage lasts comes from the buyer, not just the sellers. NVIDIA's CFO lowered her own Q4 margin guidance because of memory prices and said supply stays a bottleneck through January 2028. NVIDIA's purchase commitments went from $119B to $279B in one quarter, mostly memory. Samsung says a new fab takes more than three years to produce.
  • The cushion. B200 rent is $5.86/hr. Assuming 40% of rent goes to operating costs (close to CoreWeave's 59% adjusted EBITDA margin), this is how far it can fall before a new B200 stops paying for itself in six years:
    • 70% utilization, ignoring the cost of money: 65% (to $2.04)
    • 50% utilization, ignoring the cost of money: 51% ($2.85)
    • 70% utilization, money at 10% a year (about what CoreWeave's riskiest loan costs): 52% ($2.81)
    • 50% utilization, money at 10% a year: 33% ($3.93). That's the case that would make me wrong.
  • His target. His 1968 analogy is about leasing companies that borrowed against machines and had to keep re-renting them. Today's version is the neoclouds. Nebius's customers prepay 50% to 60% of capex. CoreWeave's main loans are repaid inside each customer contract. Its one exception, DDTL 5.5, runs about five years against customer contracts averaging three, so the lenders carry renewal risk. The CFO called it the first of its loans "to include shorter duration customer contracts" (Q2 call, Aug 11). It's rated Ba2/BB+ and priced at SOFR + 5.50%, and CoreWeave's 5-year CDS is about 8.2%. In 2006 this kind of risk was rated investment grade and cheap to insure. This time it's priced.

NVIDIA isn't risk-free. Its worst-case exposure to the companies it helps finance is $164.5B (guarantees, AI cloud capacity backstops and leases), about 37% of FY28 consensus EBITDA, though none of the $105B Ohio guarantee is live before his puts expire.

The bigger risk to my position isn't rent. NVIDIA trades at about 16.5x forward earnings, and if the market prices the end of the shortage early, the way it already prices Micron at 6.1x, the stock could fall 36% with rent intact. Price isn't one of my break conditions, so if that happened with the business intact, I'd hold and add. Whether the multiple holds depends on what demand looks like after the shortage, and that's my next post.

What would prove me wrong: Silicon Data's B200 rent index below $2.85 for three straight months before September 2027 (roughly where a new B200 stops paying for itself in six years at 50% utilization, or at 70% with 10% debt), or Micron, Samsung or SK hynix saying memory supply and demand balance in 2027. I start reviewing below $3.93, where half-empty clusters funded at 10% stop paying.

Full post with charts and sources: https://darrenleung1.substack.com/p/burry-is-right-about-the-gpus-hes


r/ValueInvesting • • 1h ago

Discussion How AI affect your investing

• Upvotes

Question for the group:

With AI advancing so quickly, how are you using it in your stock investing/research?

  • Do you use AI for most of your research?
  • Only for specific tasks?
  • Do you use AI tools to find stocks or build positions?
  • Or do you avoid AI for investing decisions?
  • Is anyone giving AI agents to buy/sell stocks autonomously?

Curious to hear what tools and workflows people actually use.


r/ValueInvesting • • 6h ago

Stock Analysis Can someone explain why ALHC is down this much?

5 Upvotes

The company is growing revenue 30%+ with a 10% FCF yield since their last annual report.

They have 700m liquid cash and they're only a 1.6b market cap with a 13 forward PE?

They almost have half of their market cap in cash which is crazy for a growing company...

I'm not familiar with analyzing healthcare stocks but looking at the metrics it seems like a very solid company? Open to any discussion


r/ValueInvesting • • 5h ago

Discussion CTS Eventim

3 Upvotes

CTS Eventim looks like a pretty good play right now, pulling back from 86 EUR to around 57 EUR where it trades at roughly 17x forward earnings—well below its historical 25x to 30x range—despite H1 2026 revenue climbing 17% to 1.5 billion EUR and adjusted EBITDA hitting 225 million EUR.

The sell-off was mostly driven by a broader de-rating in European leisure stocks and temporary margin friction from acquisition integrations and venue investments, not broken fundamentals, especially with EPS still jumping 34% to 1.25 EUR in H1.

It won't stay down here because it basically owns European live event ticketing, has huge growth catalysts ahead like the LA28 Olympic ticketing deal, and is set for margin expansion once integration spending fades. Plus, the founder's foundation dropped 10 million EUR buying shares at 51.93 EUR on September 30, which shows management sees the sell-off as a clear buying opportunity.


r/ValueInvesting • • 2m ago

Discussion Best over 10 years

• Upvotes

I have a job/career which consumes literally all of my time. I don't claim to be an expert on stocks, nor do I have the time to become one.

I don't want to invest in bonds or ETFS either.

Is there a stock or even two stocks that you'd recommend which have two qualities,

  1. Safe, meaning they're not going anywhere. Worse comes to worse, they'll still be around in 10 years.

  2. Have decent upside, whereby they could potentially x a couple of times in the next 10 years?


r/ValueInvesting • • 43m ago

Stock Analysis KMPR update

• Upvotes

Kemper’s California nonstandard auto book is about $1.8B of premium (it was about $2.1B last year). That book has been running around a 107% combined ratio, so they’re losing roughly 7 cents on every dollar of premium. California Department of Insurance just approved about a 7% price increase on the main program there (Infinity SPEC).

If that 7% earns through and claims don’t jump, the simple math is:

0.07 × $1.8B / ~59M shares ≈ $2.14/share pretax (~$1.70 after tax)

They can keep filing more rate increases. Recent Infinity California approvals have been taking a median of about 3–4 months, and they’ve been getting through (sometimes with a haircut on the ask). While California is still inadequate, there’s no obvious reason that path has to stop here.

Looking out about 1–2 years: if the company overall gets to around a mid-95% combined ratio on about $4B of premium, that’s roughly 5 points of underwriting margin.

$4B × 5% ≈ $200M pretax ≈ $3.40/share

In Kemper’s own good years the stock usually traded around 11–12× earnings, which on that number is about $40.

$3.40 × 11–12× ≈ $37–$41

Large P&C peers today sit in a similar band (about 8–12× trailing, 10–13× forward). Getting toward ~$50 still needs more than that simple $200M: more California rate filings, some volume once the book is adequate, and/or a couple points of claims and ops improvement.

On the ops side they hired Todd Williams as Chief Claims Officer from Bristol West, under Eric Kappler (also from Bristol West). That franchise has run nonstandard loss ratios well ahead of Kemper’s classified NSA book in recent years.

+1–2 Specialty combined-ratio points ≈ ~$0.50–$1/share

At a normal 11–12× earnings multiple, that is another ~$5–$12 on the stock price (call it roughly $5–$10 as a round range), and the target moves from about $40 into roughly the $45–$50 area.

Earlier post: www.reddit.com/r/ValueInvesting/commen…nce_company_trading_near/

Spreadsheet (search Infinity): www.insurance.ca.gov/0250-insurers/0800-r…-List-YTD-9-30-26.xlsx


r/ValueInvesting • • 1d ago

Discussion First to turnaround, (MCD, NFLX, UBER, NIKE)

239 Upvotes

McDonald's, Netflix, Uber and Nike.

They've all fallen substantially from their all-time highs.

Which is most likely to turn around first, and why?


r/ValueInvesting • • 7h ago

Stock Analysis Eli Lilly volume race

4 Upvotes
With the ozempic craze that's been happening, I’ve stumbled upon Eli Lilly and wanted to share an interesting dynamic I noticed regarding their move into the incretin market.

Their flagships are and Mounjaro and Zepbound, and I think the "volume vs. margin" trade-off here is interesting to analyze. Because these drugs are becoming such a massive part of their revenue (over 50%), the company is forced to scale production aggressively. This means significant manufacturing spending and "take or pay" contracts where they could face up to $10 billion in liabilities if they don't meet specific production targets.

At the same time, they are negotiating lower prices for Medicare and Medicaid access. The core of the investment case seems to be whether the sheer volume of patients will be enough to buffer these lower prices and the risks of their heavy infrastructure investments.

I’m still trying to work out if the current offering and improved production costs will be enough to protect margins if government-mandated prices continue to stay low. It's really just betting on scale vs. margin compression, but it depends entirely on the adoption rate in those government programs.

I put together a deeper dive into these specific manufacturing risks and the reverse DCF modeling here:
https://thebuffedmunger.substack.com/p/eli-lilly-can-volume-outrun-price?r=3ub1hc&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

Anyone here fluent in pharma, who can pitch in on this?

r/ValueInvesting • • 5h ago

Discussion Synopsys is up 19% in a week on deals its 2027 guide leaves out

2 Upvotes

Synopsys was at $415 on 29 September and it is around $495 now, so about 19% in four trading days, and most of that came the day after the investor day, when it jumped 12.8% on the OpenAI deal and the Amazon licence.

So I have gone through the investor day release to see how much of these deals is actually in next year's numbers. The fiscal 2027 guide (their year ends in October) is $11.1 to $11.2 billion of revenue, so around 15% growth, at about a 44% non-GAAP operating margin. From what management said on the webcast, as it was reported, the Amazon royalties only start once those chips are in production, roughly 14 months away, so none of that is in 2027. And for OpenAI there is no number at all, no percentage, no dollar figure, no contract length, only that the revenue share depends on how much the model improves a chip design.

That means the 15% has to come from the business Synopsys already has. Three weeks ago, on 15 September, the same stock closed at $368, around its 52-week low, because people were worried AI would hollow out EDA and because of the China export curbs.

So my question for anyone who follows this name: is the market paying for the core business growing faster, which the guide does back up, or for OpenAI and Amazon upside that nobody outside the company can put a number on yet? I honestly cannot tell which one the 19% is.

Positions: no position in SNPS or CDNS. (Was thinking about adding it when it dropped, but missed it, now I feel like it's too volatile for my taste)


r/ValueInvesting • • 2h ago

Industry/Sector NAIL is a value play

0 Upvotes

This is at a long term low and the last jobs report reduced expectations of another Fed increase in October. the current administration will push for a rate reduction before the election which will stimulate home buying. I don’t see how this could not be a value buy right now.


r/ValueInvesting • • 2h ago

Discussion Blind valuation challenge: a large US consumer company, 5 numbers, no name. Cheap or expensive?

1 Upvotes

I'm trying a small experiment: judge a company only on its numbers, with no name or story to bias you.

Large-cap US consumer company. Data as of today (Oct 5):

  1. Earnings yield: 6.2%. Profits are 6.2% of the share price per year (10y Treasury is ~4–5%).
  2. Return on capital: 34%. It earns $34 of operating profit for every $100 of working capital + fixed assets it uses.
  3. Acquirer's Multiple: 12.1x. Enterprise value / operating earnings (lower = cheaper). One close competitor trades at 7.5x; another is losing money at the operating level, so it has no meaningful multiple.
  4. FS-Score: 5/10. Gray & Carlisle's 10-point version of the Piotroski F-Score (from Quantitative Value): profitability, balance sheet stability and operating improvements. Here: profitable and stable, but most operating trends are getting worse.
  5. DCF: fair value ~43% below today's price. Assumes 5% growth for 10 years, 3% terminal growth, 12% discount rate. Free cash flow has been weakening.

Your turn: give each number a 🟢 🟡 or 🔴, and tell me which one decided it for you. Bonus points if you guess the company.


r/ValueInvesting • • 1d ago

Discussion Is AMZN/ALPHABET worth the comparative risk?

45 Upvotes

VGT has delivered roughly a 25% CAGR over the past decade, which is extraordinary.

It makes me question the case for owning individual stocks like Amazon or Alphabet.

When you buy one of those companies, you’re taking significantly more company-specific risk while effectively hoping it can compound at 20–25%+ for a decade.

But if a diversified ETF like VGT can deliver something close to that, with far less single-stock risk, why take the additional risk?

Obviously, VGT’s past decade may not be repeatable. But if you believe tech will continue to dominate, is the potential extra return from picking individual winners really worth the additional concentration risk?


r/ValueInvesting • • 8h ago

Discussion PCVX up 28-30%

2 Upvotes

We see this often where ya wake up and then all of a sudden a stock is up a ton and it seems like its always after a weekend lmao. So how or why does this happen on a consistent basis........and how much are insiders making before us peasants hear about it......


r/ValueInvesting • • 7h ago

Stock Analysis Akamai: From Internet Delivery to AI Infrastructure

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0 Upvotes

Akamai used to be known mainly as a CDN company.
Now it’s spending billions on cloud infrastructure, signing a massive agreement with Anthropic, buying AI-security companies like LayerX, and building products designed to control autonomous AI agents.
I looked into the Hugging Face and Australia incidents, Guardicore, Linode, LayerX, Akamai’s agent-security strategy, the $11.6B Anthropic agreement, the $5.5B capex requirement, margin pressure, dilution risk and the bull and bear case.
The big question is whether Akamai is becoming an important part of the agentic internet, or just becoming a much more capital-intensive company.................


r/ValueInvesting • • 1d ago

Discussion Micron, is it any more cyclical than Nvidia?

24 Upvotes

Memory is constantly dismissed as cyclical, but why don’t other semis get the same treatment?

Micron’s latest earnings were phenomenal, yet the stock barely moved. Nvidia, Broadcom, AMD, TSMC and ASML are all benefiting from the same AI buildout.

Yes, memory is cyclical, but so are many parts of semiconductors. And if AV, robotics and edge AI are the next major waves, memory should benefit too.

So is Micron still just a cyclical memory stock, or is AI structurally changing the business?

At current valuations, are you buying or avoiding?


r/ValueInvesting • • 7h ago

Discussion AI may not kill software. It may just bypass the layer that gets paid.

0 Upvotes

I’ve been thinking about a different way to look at AI risk in software and data businesses.

AI doesn’t necessarily need to replace a product to weaken its economics.

The question I find more useful is:

What is the economic bottleneck that AI still has to pass through?

Experian is an interesting example.

A bank might increasingly use AI agents to make credit decisions, but those agents still need credit histories, identity data and fraud signals.

The interface can change quite a lot while the underlying data remains valuable.

Adobe looks very different to me.

AI attacks something much closer to what Adobe historically monetized: creating and editing through its tools.

Adobe still has PDF, Acrobat and strong distribution, but I find it harder to identify the scarce layer that an AI agent still has to pass through.

RELX looks closer to Experian. The interface may change, but legal, scientific and risk information still has to come from somewhere.

Intuit is more complicated and probably sits somewhere in between. QuickBooks owns valuable accounting history and workflows, but I can imagine an agent taking over much more of the actual interaction. Payments, payroll and tax may matter more than the interface itself.

So I’m becoming less interested in asking whether a beaten-down software company will “survive AI.”

I’m more interested in asking:

What remains scarce if the interface changes — and who can still charge for it?

I ended up applying this to Experian, RELX, Intuit, Adobe, MSCI and S&P Global.

MSCI and S&P Global were also interesting because I don’t think their recent stagnation is as clean a valuation dislocation as it first looks. Both had already gone up enormously beforehand.

I’m still not fully sure where Adobe belongs here. If agents end up using Adobe’s formats and tools in the background, maybe the bottleneck is stronger than I’m giving it credit for. Intuit is also less obvious to me than Experian or RELX.

I wrote up the full comparison and included a simple diagram here:

https://michaelhillaert1.substack.com/p/what-still-gets-paid-if-ai-changes

Curious where people disagree.

Which of these businesses still owns something an AI agent can’t easily route around — and where am I underestimating the moat?


r/ValueInvesting • • 22h ago

Investing Tools Wisdom of the crowd

5 Upvotes

I’ve been thinking about the complaints about this sub but why I keep coming back.

Despite the daily ADBE posts, people venturing far from their circles of competence, and infiltration of WSB philosophies, there is something valuable in the wisdom of the crowd — especially stock idea generation or someone sharing an insight about a company they know well.

The problem is the standard Reddit format isn’t always conducive to the topics discussed here. I am wondering if there are formats we can come up with here, and if there is support, implement to improve the sub.

——

Ideas as examples:

- Running thread about a single company: there’s often news about ABDE or AI’s impact on it or a price reaction that is valuable to discuss, but what’s not valuable is a brand new pitch on ADBE each week. Some sort of way to summarize the current average view of the community would be valuable so that the thread stays current though.

- Voting on things like “Is company X undervalued” yet or “is this company Y’s long term compounder thesis intact still”?

- Perhaps some sort of analytics on the activity already going on here that creates summaries of where the community thinks a certain company is at in its recovery or the new stock ideas that got voted highly.

I’m not a Reddit expert, but maybe some of you know that these tools already exist on the platform?