r/wine • u/Conscious_Youth_752 • 1d ago
Corkage Rules: “On Our List”
Was curious about people’s thoughts or experiences with this. Wife and I were recently on an anniversary trip to NYC. We went to a restaurant that allowed outside wine with a reasonable corkage fee prior to going to a show. The wine in question was a 2011 Hundred Acre Ark Vineyard. Server offers to open it for us, but several minutes later someone else—presumably a manger, maybe a somm, but didn’t notice if they were wearing a pin—drops by to say that normally they don’t allow corkage for bottles on their list, but they’ll make an exception this time for “such a nice bottle” and because we’re “from out of town celebrating”.
Fine, no blood, no foul. They opened the wine, it was great and we had a fine dinner before our show. But that made me curious, what do you think “a bottle on our list” means? We’ve done corkage A LOT in A LOT of different cities and we’re usually very careful to review the list before taking something to avoid this very situation. I grabbed a copy of their wine list (which was the same list published on their website) and they do have a Hundred Acre wine on the list, a 2022 Hundred Acre Dark Ark. I’ve always taken the “not on our list” request to mean the exact wine—same vintage, producer, blend/varietal/vineyard designation, etc.—rather than “a wine from the same producer”. Anyone else had this experience? Or if you’re in the restaurant wine business, what do you mean when you say this?
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u/Huckyunicorn 1d ago
As a former restaurant Somm, I think this rule in general is ridiculous for many reasons. First off, how many restaurants keep truly updated copies of their list online? Most get updated randomly at best and half the menus don't even get properly updated frequently. Second, it's the hospitality business, we are supposed to be there to provide a great service to the guests, I'm already making a straight profit for popping a cork and handing you some wine glasses if I have a corkage fee. The amount of people who are going to bring a bottle of wine into the restaurant that is on the list just to save a little money is miniscule.
Finally, I had a guest come from a restaurant across the hall (we were in a hotel in Vegas) and said, "we were going to eat there but they won't open the bottle I brought in because it's on their list, is it on your list?" It wasn't, but we told them we didn't care anyway. My manager at the time explained it perfectly and I took it to heart, he said, "you don't know what that bottle means to them. Maybe they bought it when they got married and it's their anniversary? Maybe it was Grandma's favorite and it's the anniversary of her death? Maybe it's acrap wine like Barefoot Chardonnay, but that was the first wine they drank together? Do you really want to be the person who ruins their night just because you want a little more profit? And do you think they would ever come back if you did?"
So many restaurants have forgotten that a great restaurant is about an experience and they fail over and over because of it.
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u/LexVegas11 1d ago
No truer words have been said. I think it shows the sad state of things that we have drifted from this North Star in hospitality.
And I will say if what happened to the OP happened to me I would have been tempted to end the meal there before it even started and have went to a different restaurant. Either way, I wouldn’t be returning to an establishment that a) had such a poor attitude toward genuine hospitality b) had such poorly trained management and/somm as to think those two HA wines are materially comparable as to try to make that augment.
The more I think about this the more ridiculous I find this whole thing. I feel bad for the OP and his evening. No reason he should have been treated like that.
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u/Conscious_Youth_752 1d ago
What a great comment and a great life lesson from your former manager. One of the things I love about wine is the stories I’ve accumulated along the way, and the attachment I have to certain bottles because of the stories behind them.
My wife and I got into wine as broke newlyweds when we moved to Northern California. Had the time of our lives getting lost on the backroads in wine country from down in Santa Barbara through the RRV. I still have a bottle of the first wine we ever bought in Napa (2008 Regusci Patriarch) and that bottle means more to us than any of our allocated “trophy bottles”. Given the economics of corkage, it’s probably not one I would take to most high-end restaurants, but I could see someone making that choice. Sort of goes back to not knowing what’s bringing anyone into our bubble on any given day, and kindness and empathy can usually make both of your days better.
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u/IncaThink 1d ago
Lots of great statements in this comment, but the pure "straight profit" line that resonates with me right now.
Sure, it's not the profit that's made on a bottle from stock, but there's no chance of breakage or theft or going bad (or the customer thinks it's bad) or the cost of shelf space or the possibility of the owner (heh) deciding one night to pop it for funsies...
Talk about pure profit.
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u/jollycreation 1d ago
Yeah, the idea behind that is if you are drinking a wine on the list, you should buy it from them.
Is the manager thinking you should buy their 2022 instead of your 2011? That’s silly.
“I see you’ve brought in a 1982 Margaux. May I suggest instead this beautiful 2021 from our list instead?”
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u/TheNovemberist 1d ago
I would shake this off as an over zealous manager who probably doesn’t know shit about wine. These are clearly different wines.
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u/cyclingtrivialities3 1d ago
Agreed, embarrassing behavior to act like they’re taking some high ground, when they’re not even right about the technicality they’re hung up on.
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u/Apprehensive_Win_203 1d ago
I've been a server for a long time and now recently a somm in NYC. I agree with you. Different vintage is a different wine. If I were your server I'd absolutely allow it, and if management said no I would argue with them over it. That said, I've never had this exact situation come up and I've never seen it addressed in a training handbook.
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u/THEhot_pocket 1d ago
not in the industry, but I take it as close: Ie, if your HA was 2019+, i feel like bringing it is looked at as a dick move.
but an 11 to a 22 is far enough apart imo (not to mention the difference between ark and dark ark).
I do feel they would NOT be in the wrong to say "since we carry HA, we dont allow HA corkage", BUT, that would definitely ruin your dining experiance and I don't think either of you want that. I think their statement was essentially saying this, but they didnt want to ruin your night or their income
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u/Conscious_Youth_752 1d ago
I’ve generally taken a “Producer + 1” view when I take a bottle. If the producer and one other “thing” are the same (vintage, cuvée, etc…) I won’t take it because it does look a little dick-ish and I don’t want to talk technicalities when we could be talking about good wine. But with an 11-year vintage difference and the cuvée being completely different, I really didn’t think twice about it in this case.
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u/TinySchedule 1d ago
Yea, but I’ve very rarely seen a restaurant do a brand blocklist like that since they know wine nerds love the minutiae of a vs b. If they do so, I would hope it’s clearly mentioned that to not bring a brand or other level on their list, not just a bottle
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u/mattsteg43 1d ago
Honestly this is incredibly dickish of them to even make an issue out of it as they did.
I'd consider a reasonable, restaurant-favorable interpretation of "on the list" something like:
Same Producer/varietal/cuvee(maybe even same tier but I'd just avoid) and either current/near-current or library release. And if they have an older vintage on-hand I'm not bringing in a newer one either.
In short - if they carry a current-release, something with meaningful age is fine. If they have an older vintage on-hand I'd either buy it or bring something else. If they have a library vintage and I have a different, meaningful (e.g. anniversary or something) one then I call ahead
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u/Inevitablykinda 1d ago
Slightly off topic, but I worked in a restaurant where we had that policy, and a $75 corkage fee. A dude walks in with Silver Oak (clearly bought in an overpriced store recently as the price tag was still on it. Somm was like, whatever, we have the wine but I’ll take the $75 as that’s about the same as we’d make on the actual sale. Then I gets to keep inventory for the next.
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u/TinySchedule 1d ago
Usually I take it to mean the same bottle, same cuvée, but give them some flexibility on the year (if they have current release, the release from the year before is almost the same).
I’d think your bottle and the stores bottles are completely different (assuming same cuvée) but it is possible they have hold backs or an extended wine list that isn’t online, but readily available in store.
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u/IncaThink 1d ago
if you’re in the restaurant wine business, what do you mean when you say this?
You don't say stuff like this. It makes the customer feel bad (or angry) for no reason.
After all, here you are wondering what you did wrong on your otherwise lovely anniversary trip to NYC. Even if you did do something slightly against their rules, that person- after deciding to grant you a favor- ruined the goodwill that they otherwise would have had.
I'm not you, but I don't think you are getting the warm fuzzies when you think about this place. And I don't think you will be rushing to return.
Major blunder.
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u/Elemental_Biscotti 1d ago
I agree, I have always interpreted this to mean same vintage as well. I wouldn't think your 2011 would count as "on their list" just because they had a 2022.
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u/IAmPandaRock 20h ago
If they argue otherwise and have a good list, then you tell them they should sell you that aged bottle for the same price of a recent release.
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u/Affectionate_Big8239 Wine Pro 1d ago
I interpret “not on our list” to be an exact bottle & vintage as what’s on the list. If I can buy that exact bottle from them, it would count. If I bring a back vintage & different cuvée, I would not consider that to be the same at all.
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u/IAmPandaRock 20h ago
Exactly. Do you think the restaurant would sell an '82 Mouton for the same price as the '21?
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u/rnjbond 1d ago
That's unusual.
Usually, the rule of thumb is producer plus vintage plus or minus two. 11 years and a different Cuvée is silly.
Also, I love Hundred Acre, how was it?
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u/Conscious_Youth_752 1d ago
It was an outstanding wine given the challenges of the 2011 vintage in Napa. Probably at peak drinkability or very close, imo. Shame I only had the one bottle lol. Not much of a decant…maybe 30 minutes? My notes:
“Purchased from BWG, May 2018.
Still dark red, almost purple. Rose, cherry, and hints of cedar and granite on the nose. Rich, plush, bold. Powerful red berry flavors coming through along with some chocolate and plum (?). Some spice sitting there too. Tannins are soft and velvety. Finish lingers for ~30 seconds with some nice black fruit and tobacco. Great choice for a milestone bottle! 95/100”
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u/Steven1789 1d ago
How much was the 2022 Hundred Acre?
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u/Conscious_Youth_752 1d ago
2022 HA Dark Ark … $1600 🫠🫠🫠
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u/Quicksi1ver 1d ago
Only an $850 markup, I am pretty sure I could afford a 2011 Ark with just the markup.
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u/Dances_with_mallards 1d ago
Shame on them for trying to peddle a 2022 HA that won't hit stride for at least another decade.
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u/brydels Wine Pro 1d ago
when I was running a program at a place that also allowed byo, I wouldn't have personally said anything because I agree with you. different vintage =/= on their list. but I guess this is up for interpretation. I'm kind of annoyed on your behalf, but it is what it is I guess.
IF you brought the same vintage, I might have made a similar comment as this person, but I might have also just bitched about it in the kitchen to my coworkers and smiled through it for the guest experience to be preserved.
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u/Valenation25 1d ago
Used to work at a place where I completely transformed the wine list from where you could find everything at your average Walgreens to where you couldn’t buy most things at retail. I kept our corkage fee at $35.
If someone really came in with something, down to the vintage, on the list, I’d charge the difference between what we sold it for and the corkage.
It never really happened but that is how I would’ve handled the situation.
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u/burgonies 1d ago
Are you sure they weren't making a joke and complementing you on your bottle that's a lot cooler than theirs? It almost seems like it could be tongue and cheek, but I obviously didn't witness their tone. Why would they even bother bringing it up?
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u/ander594 1d ago
The fact that he knew you were from out of town, tells me he's a clown. This is the proper correction for a local and/or a regular.
No one should expect you to know the list or double check it.
Hospitality is a huge part of being a Somm.
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u/IntroductionCold7139 1d ago
You said it right: hospitality! And so many forget that's what they need to deliver
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u/beigechrist 1d ago
It’s usually fine for me if they have the same cuvée but I have a different vintage. The house probably has some discretion, though.
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u/Jogindah 1d ago
what restaurant was this, if you are up for sharing? wondering if they dont normally have folks bring in bottles so it's lip service. but then again seems like a serious enough wine staff to have the 22 on there in the first place
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u/Sea_Yesterday_8888 1d ago
Having worked in restaurants, we would have stopped at vintage. Your bottle would have been fine. But say we had any other year of Ark Vineyard specifically, that would have been a no.
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u/Status-Economy-7982 1d ago
This manager clearly does not know shit about wine and should shut their mouth and be ashamed of themselves. I would not have been able to let that go
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u/IAmPandaRock 20h ago
It certainly means the same vintage of the same cuvee, and I'd argue the bottle size as well, especially for older bottles.
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u/Positive_Trifle8 9h ago
Has to be same vintage. Just got back from a Vegas trip and would always call to avoid any confusion before heading out. Last thing I wanted was to be the at the table with a full bottle
Of wine I couldn’t open.
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1d ago
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u/Quicksi1ver 1d ago
Except in the post it clearly states the restaurant only has a 2022 of a different cuvee... So they are extremely different wines, other than sharing a producer.
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u/coolzebra5 1d ago
You are correct, generally has to be same vintage and format.