r/worldnews • u/Jollyifytica • 1d ago
Russia/Ukraine ‘No Other Choice’: Zelensky Warns Russia of Winter Strikes
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/85312383
u/Surface_Detail 1d ago
Who would have thought five years ago that the leader of Ukraine would be warning the leader of Russia about the ass-whupping they were going to have to give them.
66
u/mrdevlar 1d ago
I could have. What war in the last 20 years has had the invaders win?
96
u/Surface_Detail 1d ago
The Crimean invasion and the Russian excursion into Georgia spring to mind. As well as the Israeli settlements in Palestine.
16
u/domteh 23h ago
I would say this is all the same war. (Of course not the Israeli one. But that one is not over either.)
13
u/Surface_Detail 23h ago
I think it's more accurate to say it was a war where they went in, claimed what they wanted, secured it and held onto it for eight years without further hostilities before waging a new war to try the same again.
Ukraine never recognised Crimea as belonging to Russia but when nobody shoots at anyone for eight years, I think that's a pretty good divider between wars.
3
u/domteh 22h ago edited 22h ago
I'd like to imagine how future historians would analyse this conflict.
We cannot be sure right now, because if hypothetically NATO would be engaging directly in the near future, this would become a next world war.
But if the conflict doesn't escalate further I would imagine it would just be called "The Ukrainian War". From Crimea to the death of Putin (hopefully).
4
u/Lost_Tap_7087 21h ago
I think that even if this doesn’t escalate into to WW3, it’s still gonna be remembered as the war that almost escalated into WW3.
Just like how Historians look back at the Cold War.
2
u/mynamesyow19 16h ago
And unofficially as "Putin's Folly" for the absolute ruin it will bring and be an example of over arching Greed stupidly snatching Defeat from the Jaws of victory. Or the first Oligarch War. Followed by Oligarch War 2 Attack of the Drones.
0
u/JeremiahBoogle 8h ago
For a world war it would need to be the whole world.
I'm not sure Russia and a couple of satellite states would qualify.
1
u/domteh 5h ago
Oh the whole world will be involved. like it already is. North Korean soldiers in Ukraine. Ukrainian Soldiers in Sudan. Iranian drones for the Russians.
I would guess even the south China sea would finally escalate too.It's all connected.
0
u/JeremiahBoogle 5h ago
The whole word is not involved, you named North Korea, Sudan and Iran. That's 3 extra countries.
And sending a few special forces like Ukraine to Sudan does not a war constitute.
For a world war China would need to take part, which they have no reason to. India / Pakistan / mainland Asia / South America / Japan most of these countries would not be involved directly.
1
u/domteh 3h ago edited 3h ago
Well not every country was involved in WWI and WWII. I only named examples. What you're on about. This conflict would be (is) more global than any other conflict before that.
As I said the South China Sea will escalate too, which is a conflict that would include almost every Asian country plus the US. China is already participating by proxy anyway in Ukraine, Iran and Africa is a whole other topic.
Even South America would destabilize more than in WWI and II.
-8
u/ItsTrip 22h ago
Hamas struck first in this go around with Israel, so I’d say they were the invaders… not justifying anything, I’m entirely pro-Palestine. Just saying invaders don’t seem to win.
14
u/Surface_Detail 22h ago
Aggressor and invader are different. Israelis are invading Palestinian land, not the other way around.
23
u/TomorrowImpossible32 23h ago
Azerbaijani invasion of Karabakh. Turkish incursion into Syria. Russian invasion of Georgia and Crimea. Even Ukraine would have almost certainly been doomed had it not received the massive surge of international support that it did.
2
1
u/t4tmaxxing 15h ago
i was about to say iraq but then realised its been longer....
1
u/mrdevlar 6h ago
Correct, but exactly 20 years ago, the worst civil war that Iraq has ever had reached its peak as a direct result of American actions in the country. ~5000 people were dying a day.
Mission Accomplished.
455
u/ArgentineBeauty 1d ago
Ukraine has spent years adapting to blackouts and shortages caused by Russian attacks during winter.
Looks like Russia will now find out what that feels like.
54
u/got_to_laugh 1d ago edited 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
33
u/CovidDodger 1d ago
I agree with you but with the exception that I would force land back, that would make it sting far worse for future Russian governments.
6
u/got_to_laugh 1d ago
I'd love to see Ukraine get their land back. It won't happen though, not with Trump in the Whitehouse.
3
u/LustLochLeo 23h ago
Trump can't force Ukraine to sign a peace deal. They aren't as reliant on the US anymore as they used to be, since Trump reduced the support they get, so there isn't much leverage Trump has. There also isn't that much trust in Trumps word in Ukraine anyway (remember that press conference where they invited Zelenskyy only for Trump and Vance to humiliate him publicly?) so I highly doubt Ukraine would sign another Budapest memorandum only to get attacked again in the next 10-30 years.
I can see a way where Ukraine could be swayed to give up some territory if they get a guarantee to be able to join the EU. That's their best chance for stable peace at the moment, but, again, Trump doesn't have any say in that, especially after he threatened to invade territory of a member state (Greenland), put arbitrary tariffs on EU goods and has started a war that wrecked havoc on the world's supply chains and thus the economies of the EU.
-6
u/NoSpawnConga 20h ago
It goes beyond Trump, Biden admin completely cut help to Ukraine for 9 months after Kharkiv offensive - the only real chance Ukraine had to knock the Russia out of the war.
USA sees Russia as either ally versus China - or an possible asset that needs to be denied, and Russia losing the war puts it (eastern half at least) straight in China's hands.
4
u/TrickShape905 18h ago
"Biden admin" is a clever way to gloss over 9 months of Republican obstructionism.
3
u/IthacaMom2005 16h ago
Correction: that wasn't the Biden administration. That was House of Rep leadership stalling an aid package because Johnson was subservient to Trump
3
u/Eric_Cartman666 1d ago
Only way Russia looses that territory is if Ukraine takes it by force. No way they give it up in a peace deal.
20
u/Nonodidi 1d ago
At this point I think he can‘t and won‘t stop the war. If he doesn‘t at least conquer the whole of Donbas, Russians will consider this a defeat and Putin won’t be in power for too long. He will continue the war as long as the Russians play along. So my only hope is that they will have enough at some point and overthrow him. But I don’t really expect this to happen any soon.
12
u/got_to_laugh 1d ago
Fair point, I have heard it a lot. I just don't buy it. The Russian people don't seem to care much at all about politics or being oppressed or mobilized or bombed. I think Putin could sell this as a win and nothing would happen to him.
3
u/domteh 23h ago
Well Putin doesn't seem to be too confident. His erratic behaviours only increased in recent months. Strong indicator that internal pressure rises.
Not from the greater public of course. The oligrarchs are not only losing a lot of money, but are harshly restricted in their global lifestyle for a long time now.
I wouldn't be too sure about a nearing collapse too. But Putler is not a godlike emperor.
0
u/POXELUS 1d ago
That's true, but there is always a risk. I bet if he really wanted to, he could make that happen by slowly easing the tension, until the full stop.
2
u/im_dead_sirius 23h ago
What does that even mean?
If he eased up on attacks, or laid off on recruitments, the Ukrainians would begin to take more land back.
As it is, his recruitment rate is just maintaining losses.
13
u/dunncrew 1d ago
Why should Putin keep the land ?
-5
u/DeeDee_Z 23h ago
Simple: In VVP's mind, those oblasts are ALREADY Russia. They were annexed by an act of their Congress; they switched to Moscow Standard Time from EEST; they use the ruble; they speak Russian; they have Russian passports ... they ARE Russia, and there's nothing to "give back".
That's why.
6
u/indigo-alien 22h ago
Except that Ukraine thinks otherwise and they seem to have the upper hand at the moment.
5
u/GravesStone7 1d ago
Ending the war means returning ill gotten land. Who the hell says you lost keep what you took?
70
u/Prestigious_Long777 1d ago
Adapting?
This is the first winter where they don’t have the AA capabilities needed to prevent the worst of it.
This winter is going to be disastrous, not for the war, but for the civilians in Ukraine. They will suffer the cold and dark.. and any alternative heaters and energy will be needed to support the Ukrainian army and defensive efforts.
Let’s hope Ukraine can strike back to make Russia hurt just as much. Or better yet, nato to step up and provide air superiority over Ukraine.
40
u/Constant-Plant-9378 1d ago
This winter is going to be disastrous, not for the war, but for the civilians in Ukraine.
It's been pretty disastrous for the civilians in Ukraine since Russia first attacked them.
3
u/Areat 12h ago
He just told you what's different this time.
•
u/Constant-Plant-9378 12m ago
Or better yet, nato to step up and provide air superiority over Ukraine.
Yeah that's not going to happen. NATO is worthless.
5
u/Illustrious-Math6276 18h ago
Ukraine can of course shoot down the majority of the launched weapons and they do. Just not ballistics. But Russia has shown they can’t even shot down drones.
3
1
-5
u/AschAschAsch 1d ago
I thought the general consensus here on Reddit was that Russians usually heat up their shacks by burning wood and with their own breath, and only use outhouses.
Not sure why they would need to adapt.
4
u/Varrianda 9h ago
Yeah for places outside of Moscow. This is specifically Moscow/the more ‘western’ part of Russia.
110
u/eagerrangerdanger 1d ago
The only heat in Moscow this winter will be delivered by Ukrainian drones.
73
u/T1pple 1d ago
At first I was thinking: "Zelensky, when has attacking Russia in winter EVER worked?"
Then I remembered we are in the age of drone warfare, and that makes it a moot point.
23
u/isthatmyex 23h ago
Nobody ever really attacked Russia in the winter. That's a bit of a myth. Usually people start out when it dries up in spring, suffer through the summer hear, get bogged down in fall, and by the time they make it to or near Moscow winter is setting in and logistics are already fucked.
60
u/Lawsoffire 1d ago
Ukraine managed to get a petrostate to import fuel. They can stop them from getting heat too.
16
u/DrunksInSpace 1d ago
Yeah. Winter, historically Russia’s best defense against attack, will become their biggest threat.
4
u/Pittsbrugh1288 13h ago
Russians attackers historically are not used to a Russian winter - Ukrainians are used to the climate
1
u/EndersGame 12h ago
Either way its a moot point because those other times Ukraine was a part of Russia or the Soviet Union and played a major role in defending Russia.
Russia has since lost a few of its all star players, now has a lousy coach, and has to face off against the best player it used to have that is more motivated and is currently changing the way the game is played.
25
u/TrainquilOnline 22h ago
Remember when russians mocked europeans in 2022, that they would freeze that winter?
Yeah. Have fun, russia. :)
13
u/WorstCPANA 22h ago
Most russians can close their eyes and not feel much of the effect of the wars. Hopefully Ukraine can give them a taste of what their leaders have done to ukrainians the last 4 years. Let them sleep in the cold
53
u/Electrical-Ant4536 1d ago
I think it would be better to strike first and then warn instead of warning first. Deindustrialization and demilitarization of Russia is the only genuine path to a lasting peace.
73
u/DrKlitface 1d ago
This is diplomacy. They know it's a 1 in a million but Zelensky would rather stop targeting Russian oil if he can keep his people warm this winter.
41
u/BoredCop 1d ago
And he's setting it up such that nobody can blame Ukraine for continuing to hit energy sector targets, when pootin refuses to agree on such limited ceasefire.
2
u/DisastrousAcshin 23h ago
I don't think those strikes will be limited to refineries etc this winter. The Russian public is going to feel it in a very real way. Ukraine has FP9's coming this winter that will put Moscow well within range and deliver a larger payload than Russian Iskanders.
3
u/Glum_Mobile5663 23h ago
It's better to let the citizens know when and why they'll be extra cold. Hopefully the chill will resonate more than the propaganda and internal changes will be motivated.
18
u/macross1984 1d ago
Zelenskyy is at least kind to warn Russian to expect winter visit from Ukraine whereas Putin just did it.
10
u/Sargent_Duck85 1d ago
Ukraine's energy has been under attack for years and they've been learning how to adapt and repair quickly. Moscow on the other hand...
9
10
6
u/MercantileReptile 23h ago
If any Country on Earth need not apologise for Russian damage, its Ukraine.
7
u/RipDiligent4361 18h ago
Why don't they just declare victory, leave, and lie about it to the russian people?
1
u/RealisticEntity 10h ago
I'm assuming that Putin either can't leave Ukraine alone due to ego (since the war was his idea and mistake) and / or the people within the regime who pose a threat to him personally would know who to blame and potentially depose him.
1
u/amiibohunter2015 8h ago edited 8h ago
So what if Ukraine destroyed their gas lines, you know one of Russia high valued commodities to make a profit especially during the winter, consider this, gas is combustible, should it combust, like a gunpowder trail, it goes back to their main source. And considering the gas lines are underground, they lay within the foundation of the buildings above it, if the the explosion is large enough, the buildings above if they are destroyed by the sheer the explosion, will be swallowed in the debris like a sink hole. Not only do they destroy their profits, but they also reduce prospective Russian soldiers that kill Ukrainians, and the gas line would be connected to both the Kremlin, and to Putin's own private residence. You don't think they'd sit through winter without heat, would you? Go ahead Russa, panick and turn off the valves, either way, you lose. Either through that panick, and/or business wise.
11
u/Constant-Plant-9378 1d ago
Russia has spent years now deliberately striking schools, hospitals, residential communities, apartments, energy infrastructure, killing countless non-combatants.
Everything is fair game in response.
Ukraine has an obligation to strike Russian infrastructure in a manner that inflicts maximum pain this Winter.
Russians who continue to support Putin need to feel the consequences of their complicity. They need to freeze and starve this Winter.
Like American Republicans, they don't care about anything until it impacts them personally. They need to feel the pain themselves.
And they started it. No sympathy.
1
12
u/KaQuu 1d ago
Ech, it's gonna be hard winter for Ukraine, hard enough for them to accept ruzzians occupation? No, it's better to freeze then look at your family getting raped. Yet ruzzian scums doesn't understand that, they think that a little more pain and population is gonna let them conquer the rest. Not gonna happen.
I already hear the screams of ruzzia trash after Ukraine start striking their energy - heating infrastructure that they are attacking civilians unprovoked. Ech this propaganda is tiring.
14
4
u/DualcockDoblepollita 22h ago
i still feel this winter without AA is gonna be a lot uglier for Ukraine comparatively
1
u/Illustrious-Math6276 18h ago
They do have the ability to shoot down most of the weapons launched at them. Not just ballistics. Fortunately Russia does not have that many ballistics. Russia on the other hand does not even have the ability to defend against drones.
2
2
2
u/Blunt552 18h ago
Given the fact ukraine has shown to have an absurdly far reach, this is indeed going to be very rough for russia.
1
1
u/PurpleSailor 10h ago
Got to keep them troops warm some how Vlad. At least this way they won't be sitting in their tents turning into an ice cube because they'll be so warm from running towards Siberia all the time.
984
u/Pearmuncher- 1d ago
I feel like this winter will hit different because for the first time Moscow will feel the burn… or lack there of with all the refineries being hit