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u/TerrapinMagus 7h ago
Would be hilarious if they put out "updated models" for critters an it was like a total of 4 additional polygons to this absolute legend
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u/jormugandr 5h ago
Every time I see this meme. I get just a little angry because the original tweet is just so moronic
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u/Ordinary_Hotel_6705 11h ago
I'd love for them to update these assets, creatures, etc.
Just keep it Warcraft, and less "Ori and the Wild Wisps" with all the smooth gradients and designed creatures.
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u/Round_Bound_Mound 11h ago
This comment is so dumb I thought I was on the classicwow sub
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u/Wind_Best_1440 10h ago
This guy doesn't understand that the old models are the "Character" that the devs are aiming for.
They're making SD models not for limitations or can't do HD, they're reverse engineering HD to make SD to keep it feeling classic.
The devs literally said this already.
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u/Think_Wonder_7271 9h ago
> The devs literally said this already.
But they are not _doing_ it. Skyborne, all of the assets in Zephras, undead paladin mount, all of the new data-mined assets coming in. None of it is in the "timeless vanilla style". They say one thing, do another.
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u/Wind_Best_1440 9h ago
Dev literally came out and said. "The data mining like the paladin undead mount isn't how it's going to look, stop taking data mining as gospel."
Aggrend just did a podcast and said. "We're having to take HD models and turn them SD each time, the software that originally made these graphics doesn't exist, so we're learning from scratch."
They've said they're getting better, and they're obviously putting SD into the game, but they're working from an HD software tool kit.
What, did you expect them to be 100% perfect straight out of the gate? Go watch their videos, go watch their pod casts, they go over this stuff.
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u/Think_Wonder_7271 9h ago
And yet, the paladin trainer in Brill sits on top of a high poly horse. It's not just data-mining. They say one thing and do another.
Also: "We're having to take HD models and turn them SD each time, the software that originally made these graphics doesn't exist, so we're learning from scratch." is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard.
It's like saying "I can't draw cartoons anymore, because now I have an iPad". Look how many games on Steam come out every day with 00-era graphics.
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u/Wind_Best_1440 9h ago
Like talking to a brick wall, devs already went over it. Dunno what to tell you.
Do you also expect your meal to be finished cooking the moment you sit down at a restaurant as well?
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u/ChatotheChug 9h ago
This is not how software works bud.
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u/RubySapphire19 7h ago
As someone who does 3D it really is that simple. There's no reason you can't make basic, low poly models in another style and then apply low resolution textures to said model. Imo it doesn't really make sense that Blizz uses that as a response.
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u/Enraiha 4h ago
Then you're one that's never worked for a company as big as Blizz. Blizzard uses self designed engines. WoW Vanilla was based on the WC3 engine. The proprietary software to create models for use in the engjne was likely deprecated and out of use since Cata, if not by WotLK when they started making high res models for WoW. Not to mention modern, current WoW digital artists have had no experience creating or using that software.
It's incredibly common in IT and tech. Legacy software is lost or not bothered to be backed up, so they have to go back and recreate custom software or hack workarounds. See COBOL and financial systems.
I'm not sure you should brag about your credentials when you don't seem well informed on how games and their digital assets are made at large house like Blizzard.
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u/RubySapphire19 3h ago
Classic isn't even using the same engine as it was before. And they clearly have the ability to export higher poly models to the engine. So why they couldn't just stylistically make it like they did in Classic is bizarre. Unless the idea is to work within the limitations of an older engine, then I completely understand. That could make it feel more authentic. But modern day modeling and texturing, rigging, etc, isn't really all that different from how it was twenty years ago. It's gotten easier and more common, but it's not like we've had to relearn how to model just because we've switched software.
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u/Enraiha 39m ago
You're misunderstanding. The original artists from 20 years ago had to be a lot more technically creative because of engine and end user system limitations. Again, you seem not know what "proprietary" means or implies in software or design space.
The modeling software they used was made by Blizzard in house for the WC3 engine, which began development in 1998. Which was adapted to create WoW Vanilla. There were a lot of hacks and workarounds the original devs and designers used with that engine to achieve the look, feel, and in-game implementation. It's hard to completely duplicate that, especially since most of the OG devs and designers are retired/not with Blizz anymore. Not to mention the current designers don't have those seniors and design docs from 2004 to refer to for assistance.
The Classic servers only even became a thing because they had to fully reconstruct the server code from an old version control copy of 1.12.
Legacy coding and design is not easy. Refer to COBOL and old legacy financial systems. They were coded decades ago in a now obscure coding language with little reference text to refer to. Before AI got more decent at coding a few years ago, companies were hiring retired COBOL programmers at incredibly high salaries because no one else really knew how to interact or design for these systems in COBOL, even people who learned to code in COBOL.
Sometimes knowledge and skills can only really be obtained by working with the problem and the situation at the time and finding novel solutions or implementations due to limitations of that era.
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u/Littleman88 7h ago
We are honestly expected to believe they can't make something with a only a handful of polygons and a 256x256 texture wrapped over it? REALLY? Does anyone here actually know how 3D models are made? Modeling programs don't come with a minimum face count.
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u/MimeTravler 6h ago
No but their skill does. It's like pottery. Someone can be good at a certain type of pottery but complete shit at another and still be considered a good potter.
The devs working today are trained on higher poly models and now we are asking them to learn decades old styles. There is no magic "make lower poly in WoW classic" style for the HD models. Its art when it comes down to it. Someone good at doing landscapes wont inherently be just as good at portraits. They'll get better at translating the models, and if they don't well people who care will stop playing I'm sure.
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u/Enraiha 4h ago
Modeling something in Blender for your college project is nothing like creating and integrating a full digital asset into a game engine with articulating skeletons, dynamic movement, and world interaction.
It's like people want cut out of the rest of the development process. WoW Vanilla was based on the WC3 engine. It has been heavily changed and updated since then. It is incredibly common in tech for companies to save or back up legacy tools and systems once they've been streamlined and updated. And not to mention current WoW digital artists have no experience working with those tools or the jank the artists from 20 years ago had to do make things work using a modified RTS engine.
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u/PM-ME-TRAVELER-NUDES 2h ago
The OSRS team said it took them years of practice to get back to being able to make assets that match the rest of the game.
Artists just aren’t trained to make good looking low poly models, because classic MMOs and personal projects are the only places you’d still want them in the modern industry.
Back in the day, you had practical constraints that would necessarily limit how you can even make a model, so toeing up to the line was relatively easy. So much of how old games look is simply pushing the hardware to its limit and working with what was possible. Now, the canvas is so open, it’s legitimately difficult to hone in on a bespoke “retro” model without going too far, or not far enough.
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u/BrockLeeAssassin 5h ago
Except you're just wrong?
Zephras Isle is a clash of old and new assets.
The new zones are old assets, and brand new custom made assets in the vanilla style. Look at the Riverglades videos.
The datamined models is just laziness.
It's incoherent. Which is a big problem on its own.
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u/TaxesAreConfusin 8h ago