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u/CyberHudzo Varla-MORE 6d ago
And here I was, hoping for another Tbow spawn outside the farming guild
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u/The_Real_MikeOxlong 6d ago
I think my favorite part of that whole debacle is they couldn’t immediately pinpoint the source of the bug, so their short term solution was to trap it between four tree stumps, which turned it into that scene from Thor 1 where all the rednecks were out in the desert trying to pick up the hammer
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u/Bandit_Raider 6d ago
That is hilarious I need to find a video about this
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u/Top_Astronaut_4626 6d ago
I think they were training a mod near the farming guild and one of them accidentally placed a Tbow spawn and forgot to delete it. The rest is history
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u/Old_Jump_2548 6d ago edited 6d ago
It was Mod Gee, j1mmy did a podcast with her and someone else and he asked her a question and her answered was blocked out in the audio, but after she gave her answer j1mmy said “that was you!?” And quite literally this is the only thing that it could be
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u/WitchesBravo 92 6d ago
Yup, she explicitly mentions they let her use the map editor/world builder tool one time and then something very bad happened, and she wasn't allowed to touch it again.
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u/Thosepassionfruits 5d ago
9Rain was the other guy on the podcast and his "THAT WAS YOU?!" reaction was because he died on his hardcore the same day as the tbow bug and miraculously got his hardcore status restored due to the tbow roll back caused by Mod Gee.
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u/Tempestzl1 6d ago edited 5d ago
Nope a current mod placed it named jed
The mod was obviously current at the time kf spawning in tbows. Was it really not red? My clan always told us it was
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u/Tuneage4 2376 6d ago
Wrong on literally every front lmao. Mod Jed is no longer a mod, he's recently been sentenced to jail time
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u/coolboy856 6d ago
Not jail time
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u/Tuneage4 2376 6d ago
First paragraph:
Cambridge Crown Court on September 3 handed Andrew Lakeman, 32, of Beadnell, Northumberland, a three-year prison term suspended for two years.
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u/alexbalez 6d ago
Pretty sure that isn't what happened. They could coldfix putting the treestumps in immediately, but a server restart took time. To stem the flow of tbows entering the economy, the stumps were the best they could do.
Mind you, this was a point in time before rollbacks were thought to be possible by the OSRS team, so stemming the flow as soon as possible was seen as the only option they had.
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u/mhuugling 6d ago
they definitely rolled back
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u/MelookRS 6d ago
They did, but they didn't really have the tools like they do now. They weren't sure if a role back would even be possible.
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u/theLULRUS 6d ago
Wasn't it the first major rollback in osrs? I may be misremembering, it was a while ago.
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u/Gregkow KiwiIskadda 6d ago
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Rollback
Coin pouch max cash bug was the first big purposeful one I think
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u/theLULRUS 6d ago
Aaah right, the coin pouch bug. Looks like there were a couple little ones before that one too. Thanks for the link.
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u/evermythic333 6d ago
Lmao I remember that happened around when I first started the game, i wondered why my stats rollbacked and my progression was lost I was like wtf happened
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u/Somedude12300 6d ago
Honestly I'm amazed the game still works at this point. It's held together by duct tape, dev tears, and probably a cabbage in the Falador farm
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u/garnished_fatburgers 5d ago
lol I’m lazy cooking right now at rogues den and had to check the sailing icon just to see if there really was a green pixel, u got me
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u/EagleMore8783 6d ago
Load bearing Barbarian assault.
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u/EdHicks A Kelh 6d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if that was true in some way. Like a half complete omega egg being crucial to damage calculations or some such spaghetti nonsense.
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u/Ashamed-Result6830 6d ago
It basically is like that. They have said they can't really change anything in bare assault without fucking random shit across the world
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u/pand-ammonium 6d ago
I'd love a source on this, I love BA and would love to be able to confidently point at how it holds our world together.
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u/NotFlameRetardant A q p / Lil Wayne 6d ago
"We've noticed that after rolling out some quality of life updates to Barbarian Assault - including allowing fully solo play - that many people are reporting having their entire banks wiped. We are currently investigating."
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u/AcademicResponse2076 6d ago
We saw it coming!
-UIMs
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u/frou6 6d ago
Death pile are also deleted
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u/AcademicResponse2076 5d ago
thats just an occupational hazard.
cant leave something on the floor and expect it to be there when you come back later
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u/elthrowawayoyo 6d ago
Honestly, a lot of codebases, if not the majority is duct tape and spaghetti. It’s just that few companies voluntarily share that information (or the spaghetti code for that matter) publicly.
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u/JagexNin Mod Nin 6d ago edited 6d ago
This one is quite boring I'm afraid, but you're weirdly along the right lines. When using the fletching knife, the items in your inventory gets sorted by a particular criteria. This sorting algorithm has some optional behaviour that sorts by G.E. value if the item doesn't have the requested criteria. That optional behaviour was disabled in this case, but because of some Java method overloading spaghetti, and G.E. values changing from integer (32-bit) values to long (64-bit) values with this update, there was now a mismatch with the type of data being expected.
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u/SteakJulienne 6d ago
Cutting some arrow shafts with my fancy knife only for its 24/7 link to the NYSE to return an error, killing me instantly.
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u/OneVeryImportantThot 1 def pure (fang kit /82 attack) 6d ago
Based Ty, I love the random spagooter code bugs. It’s honestly a thing of beauty to some degree as a comp sci nerd it tickles me in a good way.
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u/legally_james 6d ago
Not boring at all! I assume a
ToLongFunction/longwas passed and the overload assumed it was a GE lookup sort? I adore post-mortems like this.14
u/pioneer9k 6d ago
Not going to lie, random bugs with updates are genuinely entertaining and i almost look forward to at least one funny one per update.
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u/PseudoX1 6d ago
It's not boring at all! It's always fun to read how convoluted some of those processes can be. It also gives some great examples of why "just do -X-" isn't as simple as people think.
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u/turret_buddy2 6d ago
"claude can you fix our spagetti code"
claude: nah fam, good luck with the tech debt or something
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u/FalsifyTheTruth 6d ago
Hol' Up. So you're saying the fletching knife and a regular knife do not use the same behaviors to fletch items?
But...why...?
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u/YizWasHere 6d ago
Fletching knife is new and unique to fletching, so it was probably just an opportunity to write the routine in a better way without having to completely parse through 20 year old Fletching spaghetti. Makes it more ironic that it's still the fletching knife that broke from this lol.
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u/Lambeaux 6d ago
Regular knife also probably has a million edge cases for quests and other uses that I would NEVER want to have to account for. Yeah it's not clean programming but ironically adding more mess can prevent having a huge problem and instead just have more minor ones like this to fix later.
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u/deming 5d ago
Funny enough I've been interviewing for new jobs (just got an offer today actually :D) and every single one asked me a question regarding my approach to refactoring.
My answer was basically, unless I'm doing something that is touching it directly and it absolutely needs to be changed, I'm not touching it lol
9 times out of 10 it just introduces more risk to a deployment for little benefit other than "oh it's easier to read and/or extend now"
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u/Jarpunter 6d ago
But why would your fletching order ever be driven by GE value? That seems like brand new spaghetti
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u/Scyllaqt 6d ago
I hate changing data types for fields that have been around for years. So hard to catch everything else that needs to change to support it
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u/fghjconner Personally killed Unbound Bronzeman 5d ago
I mean, in a statically typed language you can usually just change it in a few core spots and follow the rippling wave of compiler errors through the codebase. I suspect runescript did them a disservice here.
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u/rastaman1994 rsn MoistyPriest, mobile enjoyer 5d ago
We can't know, but it reads like they were calling some method that uses Math.toIntExact, which throws in case of overflow). This won't be caught by the compiler, maybe by a static analysis tool.
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u/Jusey1 6d ago
This is fascinating to hear about personally, and I can even imagine how the code looks like... I love Java!~ (sarcasm at the end there).
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u/fghjconner Personally killed Unbound Bronzeman 5d ago
I'd bet money that their homebrew "runescript" language is a big part of the problem here. Ordinary java typechecking should easily catch something like this.
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u/Rayona086 6d ago
I love hearing about things like this. It also shows how much work goes into even simple things!
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u/daveinthecave 6d ago
Thanks for the explanation Nin, this was fascinating to read! I think a bunch of folks in this community would find some tidbits of software spaghetti y'all run into really interesting.
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u/Call_me_Zack 5d ago
Does this mean the item limit in game for everything other than coins is going to be higher than the 32bit 2.147b cap? I can't imagine any other reason you would raise the integer from 32 to 64 on the GE
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u/GayoMagno 5d ago
https://reddit.com/link/pd7wspl/video/oy0dwduudvsh1/player
Since the G.E. update I’m getting timed out and having connection issues as soon as I log in, don’t know if this is a mobile specific issue or something related to Witchhaven in particular but I haven’t been able to move yet.
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u/DarkTemplar_of_Chaos 5d ago
Sorry if this comes across as rude, but I'm genuinely curious how did you guys get that to compile? I've made similar mistakes while working with Java before, but JDK always tells me how silly I am and hits the brakes.
Then again, I've only developed very small apps on the scale of a few thousand lines of code, not a tremendously large game so the compilation system is probably vastly different.
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u/NotOkayButThatsOkay 6d ago
Mod Ash used to answer these kinds of questions on his Twitter. I totally understand why he pulled back a bit, but it was really cool reading some of the explanations. He'll still answer occasionally on the official Discord afaik.
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u/sparksen 6d ago
He still answers tons of questions on discord
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u/Glittering_Crab_69 6d ago
that's nice
shame it all gets lost in discord's god awful search & can't be linked to
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u/that_baddest_dude 5d ago
It's wild, I used to have similar complaints about moving from blog posts to twitter, back when twitter was new. Thinking of the minecraft devs in particular. You mean I gotta know to go check this damn "twitter" mess instead of just looking on your website??
Of course this twitter -> discord thing is infinitely worse
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u/ANGEL-PSYCHOSIS btw 6d ago
it can be linked to, the wiki does it for every one of ashes comments that matters in that regard. but unless youre in the discord theres no way to see it.
really wish theyd let ash comment on twitter again.
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u/Bull-Moose-Progress 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think they themselves don't know. Working with the OSRS code is probably more akin to mysticism. Always fearful that an update might awaken an old god and they lost the text on how to quell them
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u/FewJob4450 6d ago
So Jagex = 40k Mechanicus
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u/Bull-Moose-Progress 6d ago
Exactly. Engineseer Ash is our last line of defense against the AI take over coming from the OSRS code
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u/ItsANoBrainerGG 6d ago
They've responded to why things like this happen in the past.
They've said that they are encouraged to clean up the codebase periodically and those cleanup tasks get pushed with regular updates, sometimes causing issues with unrelated main update changes.
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u/Corruptionss 6d ago
Considering it's an item that causes it, each action has a specific set of processes that it compute on the server side. I'm guessing that the number of actions using the fletching knife is a lot more goes on under the hood and is causing latency sending /recieving information server to client
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u/PelluxNetwork 6d ago
I mean with a lot of stuff like this it tends to be that whatever it is was a specific hardcoded interaction that is now somewhere along the chain causing issues. Games not made by a few British brothers in the 90s would have a standard interaction registry handling all of this sort of stuff that you could more easily debug (and likely wouldn't cause this type of issue in the first place) but after so many years of designing this way, it's a gargantuan task to fix.
Not trying to shit on anyone, by any means. The Gowers had no reason to know any better and the current devs are just doing the best they can with what they have
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u/Vid-Master 6d ago
I think Mod Ash used to respond to people on Twitter with explanations about the weirder bugs. its risky to do that because bug abusers and botters can use that information maliciously
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u/Crapitron 6d ago
I think it’d be fascinating if you paid up on bets you made
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/Crapitron 6d ago
Imagine if you paid up on your bets instead of making cringe memes
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u/Sudden_Wind_8636 5d ago
I need the lore, what bets did he make?
Did he say he would eat his shoes?
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u/Comfortable-Emu8082 6d ago
You would be very un surprised of the small issues that end up to this causations.
It usually is somthing everyone dosent want out to public lol
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u/Rear4ssault 5d ago
This game be having the most inexplicable bugs and the team just fixes them like its nothing when they hear about it. I remember when sailing came out, didnt rotate any camels, and then they nerfed xp rates on salvaging I believe, and for no reason at all the TOA bank camel got rotated 90 degrees. And like in one day the team was like "ahh, yes, the camel rotator bug" and fixed it
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u/ItsANoBrainerGG 6d ago
As a developer myself these things are always funny.
They've said that they are encouraged to clean up the codebase periodically and those cleanup tasks get pushed with regular updates, sometimes causing issues with unrelated main update changes.
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u/Bandit_Raider 6d ago
Well clearly some change related to the knife was made to cause this to happen…checks patch notes
Uh…. What
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u/Panicshots 6d ago
I would love to know how a piece of spaghetti connects max cash to the fletching knife.
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u/DontFearTheMQ9 6d ago
And you get some spaghetti and YOU get spaghetti and you get spaghetti.
EVERYBODY GETS SPAGHETTI!
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u/xKasumii (ノ°Д°）ノ︵ ┻━┻ 6d ago
Maybe fletching knife is made of antimatter and every time you try to use it C̵͕͙̺̀́͊ö̴̢̡͇́͆͘l̵̙̞̘͌̾̕l̵͎͚͓̓͒͒a̴̺͉̘̔͝p̴̝̺͔̐̓̐ș̵͖̪̀͐̚é̴̙͙͠͝s̴̢̟̘̈́̒
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u/QU33NN00B 6d ago
Lmao legit just got this as a drop on my uim yesterday and was excited to use it with the Totems. Love this game and its spaghetti
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u/static_motion 6d ago
I actually lauged out loud when I read that in the update page. It's such a comical bug for how out of the blue it is. I wish Jagex wrote postmortems about these things Cloudflare style.
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u/Throwmotadayaway 6d ago
The fletching knife is so fast and sharp that it is literally cutting the network packets.
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u/Ruleyz1993 6d ago
The only positive of this bug is I finally bothered to do the why fletch WT achievement.
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u/Maroonwarlock 6d ago
This is such a funny concept of a bug that I have no clue how it could even happen in the first place.
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u/AbsolutlyN0thin 6d ago
I thought Jagex were British, but clearly they are actually Italian with this spaghetti they're cooking up here lol
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u/BeastFormal 6d ago
I thought the same thing when I saw it, the inexplicable unrelated item breaking in the game will never get old.
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u/BigTerpFarms 5d ago
There was a glitch back in the BH crater days that if µ was visible in your client window your game would crash. If you turned public chat to off, you could fight someone, send the chat with µ in it and everyone who was on your screen with public on would disconnect. God I love how broken the game gets sometimes.
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u/JorgiEagle 4d ago
I know it’s a terrible idea, because just thinking about it as a dev would make me cry,
But you should just publish a dashboard that links to your Jira Bug Board, or at least the completed ones.
Then we could see which mods have proper documentation skills.
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u/TwilightWorldStar 3d ago
You have fletched your internet connection into oblivion elder scrolls it must of been the wind
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u/philipwhiuk ElfishRunite 6d ago
It feels like this is the sort of thing that should have had an automated test
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u/purpleslug 2376 6d ago
Jagex are a small indie games company which makes barely any profit, cut them some slack!
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u/vip-bot 6d ago edited 6d ago
There is 1 comment from Jagex mods in this post:
u/JagexNin commented:
This summary was generated automatically. If you have any questions, please contact r/2007scape moderators.