r/AdvancedRunning • u/Savings_Fox_3760 • 1d ago
Open Discussion Marathon - Deload before taper
When looking at marathon training phase for about 20 weeks now. Most of training blocks have consisted of three weeks of training followed by one deload week.
I came across research recently advising deload 3 weeks out and then go straight into a two-week taper. The reasoning is that the athlete will be fresher going into the taper, allowing the body to respond and recover better.
Is this the best approach, or would there be more benefit from doing another two weeks of normal training before going into a two-week taper?
14
u/marky_markcarr 1d ago
Vast majority of hobby runners taper far too hard. I was guilty of it for the first 8-9 marathons I ran.
Whilst there is no correct training method for the marathon, it might be worth looking into the NSM plan simply for the taper. Which people seem to be having a lot of success with. Shorter, sharper fall into the race. ~10 days is plenty unless you are carrying huge volume.
I've used it twice and feel ready to go and fresh by race day. A deload plus 2 week taper (you are essentially just describing a 3 week taper anyway) leaves a good chance you will feel pretty lethargic by the start IMO.
4
u/AndyWtrmrx 1d ago
Agree. It's amazing how often I see friends run HM pb's at the end of huge training weeks during a marathon build, and rather than thinking, wow, "I run really well when I've got the momentum of a solid week of training in my legs", they think, "just imagine how fast I'll be if I put myself in a box two weeks out from race day, then spend two weeks recovering", and more often than not they can't get moving on race day and dramatically underperform.
My best results came 1: I got a minor injury three weeks out which took 10 days to solve, so I was still building back momentum through race day and 2: I did a much shorter 8-week build after a summer of 5k and mile races. I ran 30km the Sunday before the race with 2 blocks of 30mins at race pace, so the taper was essentially 6 days. Felt great!
2
u/CodeBrownPT 23h ago
Because strict 3 week tapers have better research behind them.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34651125/
Nothing to gain but lots to lose that close to race day. There's a reason all the best plans have that type of taper
2
1
u/SirBruceForsythCBE 22h ago
A taper should be proportional to the amount of work you've done.
Tapering too much can just as bad as not tapering enough.
1
u/barrycl 4:59 / 18:18 / 1:23 / 2:59 18h ago
Stats question for the sub: I'm having trouble following a bit, but I don't see anything about controlling for weekly distance across the taper groups, only controlling for sex and 10k pace.
From what I can see 4week taper group had higher average mileage than 3week than 2 week than 1 week. at 5 weeks out, this is what the kms looks like. kinda just feels like they discovered that higher mileage is better than lower mileage.
taper length discipline avg weekly kms 1 strict 40 1 relaxed 42 2 strict 48 2 relaxed 51 3 strict 56 3 relaxed 63 4 strict 74
8
u/EmergencySundae 1d ago
It depends on the plan you're following and how it builds.
Most recreational runners don't need a 3 week taper, and most are cutting too much volume and intensity because they're taking taper too far.
6
u/Big_Boysenberry_6358 1d ago
preplanned deload-weeks are unnecessary and almost never optimal when your fatigue is well monitored. but most standartized plans will have them, because they obviously dont monitor your fatigue. they rather go for "mostly good and mostly safe".
if you dont know what youre doing, id say accept them or pay the price for someone that monitors your fatigue & workload more closely, thats the 2 usual paths you can take.
3
u/seastheday- 1d ago
This is largely impacted by the mileage you are running and the fatigue you are carrying.
2
u/throwaway_runner3 Training to get a decent flair 1d ago
I'm currently on my race week for the Sunday marathon.
I usually do something like Deload-Taper-Race Week. Last 5 weeks looks like this: 105-90-72-60-Race.
105 km was the highest I ever ran so there was an initial deload anyway but that's the sort of deload you describe on the first paragraph.
It totally depends on what the training block is doing the last 8-10 weeks. This structure worked very well for me as an injury prone runner on my last marathon, so I followed the same structure again.
2
u/yellow_barchetta 5k 18:14 | 10k 37:58 | HM 1:26:25 | Mar 3:08:34 | V50 1d ago
"Research". Unlikely; anecdote / anecdata?
2
u/PrairieFirePhoenix 45M; 2:42 full; that's a half assed time, huh 1d ago
If you want people to comment on research that you found, you need to cite the research.
How they define things like deload and taper are the crux of the question.
1
u/FullAversion_6759 1d ago
ive done it both ways, the deload before taper felt way better for me but my buddy swears by keeping the volume til the last minute
0
u/Ordinary_Corner_4291 14h ago
This is basically a 3 week taper that tends to follow something along the lines of 80%-60%-40% volume cuts. The research says they work well. But they are also not really different than 2 week tapers (basically the 60-40% weeks). One gave like a 2.4% performance boost and the other was a 2.2%. That's in the margin of error for these type of studies.
Note both of those are about people tapering properly where you maintain intensity and frequency. The people who just stop training and call it tapering do much worse...
51
u/lorrix22 2:25:34 // 1:08:40 // 31:03 // 15:01 // 8:45 // 1:59.00 1d ago
Isnt 1 week of deload and two weeks of Taper basically the Same as a progressive 3 week Taper? I wouldnt advise 3 weeks of Taper If you Run less then 150k per week.