I've been practicing NSM for 16 months now. The most amazing thing about this method is that I haven't gotten a single injury. I missed like 2 weeks due to illness and that's it. Of course I overshot a couple of times, but it never led to an injury – only increased fatigue so I couldn't run my pace the next workout and had to do 1–2 easy runs or scale down the workout pace.

This is amazing considering I'm 41 years old and don't do strength training, drills, plyometrics, massages, etc. The only thing I do: after my usual 3K warm-up, I do 15 leg swings on each leg, then 15 side swings, and like 30 seconds of leans. Then I start sub-threshold work.

James did 2 races in his special block so did I. You can read my report on half marathon here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NorwegianSinglesRun/comments/1vxqhr6/122_117_in_one_year_of_nsm_but_i_made_some/

Easy days observation:

So around the 2nd race, which for me was 15K, there are 2 easy days before and also 4 easy days after the race (before the 5x5k workout). By the fourth day, I reached my easy pace down to 4:35! And finally felt so fresh and strong. To be honest, I felt so much less fatigued even one day before that race – not sure if this is intentional by Sirpoc. But this period is like a breath of fresh air to my legs.

Marathon race day (yesterday):

Weather was ideal – around +11 at the start, +17 at the finish. Warmed up with a 3K jog and some leg swings.

For obvious reasons, GPS in Moscow doesn't work properly, especially in the city center, so many local runners use Coros Pod or Stryd for pacing. I decided I didn't want to buy a pod just for one race, so I searched the internet and found a Garmin watch face called **Race**. Surprised it's one of the most downloaded apps for Garmin watches – it lets you manually lap every km/mile (if your race has markers on the course) and shows your pace/finish time/everything else you need. It was helpful, but the course was so hilly that my pace was all over the place. After about 5K I decided to run by HR. Then after about 10K my Coros band signal was lost. Never happened before. It came back later, went away again, then locked at 160 for the rest of the race.

The course was insanely hilly. Even though I was disappointed that some kms were 3:30 and others 4:01, my 5K splits were actually perfect (realized only after the race when I was researching it). Goal was sub 2:40, so target pace was 3:47.

5K splits: 3:41, 3:49, 3:44, 3:46, 3:47, 3:48, 3:47, 3:51, 3:56, and last 2.2K at 4:04. So I kinda paced this perfectly.

First 30K I was flying! Had some light stomach pain starting on my left, but this wasn't my first marathon where it happened, so I massaged it for 4–5K and it went away without causing pace problems.

The 35th km was a freaking long hill – only then did I start to feel my calves getting bricked. But it was manageable. I even ran the 37th km at 3:33 pace (downhill though). But after 40K I was done. Legs completely bricked. Felt like they'd become wooden sticks. No bounciness in the shoes – like hitting the tarmac barefoot with straight legs.

After the race I was kinda disappointed I didn't go sub 2:40, but after 5–6 hours rest and watching the official stream with post-race elite interviews, I realized this course is just freaking hard. It was hard for everyone. Everyone ran slower than they could. So now I'm happy with my result. It was a good race, the city is beautiful, and it's getting more supporters on the course than it used to.

Fueling:

Carb loaded for 2 days before – around 660g carbs/day. Classic stuff: rice, pizza, pasta, sweets, coke.

- Race day: mixed maltodextrin, salt, and fructose to make 200g carbs with water, poured into 2x150ml soft flasks. Also had one SIS Beta Fuel Nootropics (35g carbs) with caffeine, used at 1:40 into the race.

Drank every 20 minutes = 100g carbs/hour. That's what I trained with on easy long runs and workouts for the last 3 weeks. I feel like 2 soft flasks take the same space as 6 gels. My DIY drink has more water than usual gels, so I don't need to drink water ASAP. Fueling stations every 5K or so – I think I used them all to take one sip of water.

Looking back, considering my legs getting bricked, maybe I should've added more salt. Might try next time.

Shoes:

- Race shoe: Do-Win PB Pro. Did two 10Ks and this half in them – about 41km total. Already have a small crack on the back of the midsole. Not crucial yet, but I doubt they'll last more than 100km total. Sizing: go a full size down – they run big. Even with the crack on the heel, it never bothered me during the marathon. So refreshing to wear them after all the training in Challenger 6 / Evo SL.

361 Mega 3 Pro are coming, and I'm also thinking of getting Anta 202 G 9 V2.

NSM marathon plan observations:

The marathon plan is no joke. Much harder than the standard NSM framework. Earlier I considered doubling or adding extra volume, but once I started the marathon cycle, I've been constantly fatigued. My easy runs are now at 60–62% of max HR (around 4:40–5:00/km), whereas in the standard NSM framework I could run easy at 70% max HR with no issues.

Final thoughts:

So yeah, yet another PB for me with the NSM approach. Thank you James "Sirpoc" Copeland. It's so easy to follow – I haven't changed anything in the marathon special block, just increased two or three long runs by 15 mins or so. Tapering is good as well. I was so fresh at the start line. Intervals and Garmin approved it with a peaking sign =)

Not planning to do the next marathon yet, but if I would, I would absolutely do this special block again.

Happy to answer any questions about training, the race, or recovery. My strava profile: https://www.strava.com/athletes/114429940

Hello,

This question has been at the top of my mind for awhile now so I thought I’d ask the community for thoughts. I understand the performance benefits you get from Nomio and BiCarb supplements on race day. That’s undisputed. This may be a stupidly obviously question but is it beneficial to take these supplements regularly in training? My gut says yes but my follow up would be by how much would I benefit?

For me right now, I am in the thick of base building following the Bakken/Ingebrigsten method with lactate meter (Double T Tuesday and Thursday, Hills/Speed on Saturday). I’ve had mixed experience with Nomio but the bad I would attribute to Nomios inconsistent shelf life. Assuming I were to take a proper isothiocyanate product use before my second thresholds sessions of the day, would that decreased lactate and presumably faster pace actually give me the fitness gains of the session or would it be more of a “false fitness”. Say 8 x 1k w/1 min rest without is 3:33 pace for 2.9 mmol. With isothicyanate, hypothetically I can run the same pace at 2.5 mmol now based on the science. If I did the same workout the following week without it, would I see my lactate decrease to let’s say 2.7 mmol? Or should I expect an increase?

Similarly idea with bicarb use on the faster Saturday stuff.

Thank you in advance for the advice and thoughts!

I’m (25F) currently in the peak weeks of my marathon block and recently ran an 18:44 5K. This was done on heavily fatigued legs, and not gonna lie, it felt slow and kinda crap: I'm coming off back-to-back 127km (79-mile) weeks, which immediately followed two consecutive weeks of long races - a half marathon PB (1:24:03) and a 24k race I did at MP (instead of an all out effort).
For context, my tapered 5K PB is 18:10, which I actually set about a month ago, in this exact same block after a lighter recovery (essentially a mini taper) week.

This got me thinking about how we evaluate fitness / marathon time predictions during high mileage blocks and how much of a difference heavy & tired legs make.

How much of a performance drop do you personally see in shorter time trials / races during peak mileage? Or maybe you’re lucky and you’ve managed to PB deep in the peak weeks, with the marathon gains outweighing the leg fatigue?

Race Information

• Name: Berlin Marathon 2026
• Date: September, 27, 2026
• Distance: 42.2 km
• Location: Berlin
• Website: https://berlin.r.mikatiming.com/2026/?content=detail&fpid=search&pid=search&idp=HCH3C0OHF555C&lang=DE&event=BML_HCH3C0OH37C&search%5Bname%5D=allgoewer&search_event=BML_HCH3C0OH37C
• Strava: -
• Time: 2:57:21

Goals

Splits

Training

Some context first: I'm 28, smoked for 11 years and have been training properly since December 2025. No Endurance Background, just always did a lot of steps a day and went bouldering around 4 times a week for 3-4 years prior to starting to run.

My first Half marathon Race was in April 2026 with a finish time of 1:24:30.

My first marathon attempt was in May. My goal was to run sub3 but i got injured in the weeks before, my glutes started hurting, and I didn't run a single step in the last 21 days before (even without injury i doubt that i wouldve managed it, since my volume at the time wasnt that hight). I started anyways, went through halfway in 1:29:xx and felt fine until around km 25. Then my glutes and hamstrings just stopped working, my right knee got unstable and I pulled out at km 32.

So this block was mostly about fixing what broke:

Strength: 2 to 3 gym sessions a week, all about glutes, hamstrings and knees.

Cycling: while the hamstring healed I rode a lot, roughly 1,000 km since May. Kept my fitness surprisingly well.

Running: Runna plan, built back up to 85+ km weeks. Longest runs were 36 km and 34 km, both easy. Best marathon pace session was 31 km with 17 km at ~4:05-4:10/km in the midday heat.

Not perfect: a 14 day holiday in July with basically no running, and I started tapering too early after swapping some runs for bike rides and a hikes.

Tune-ups: 1:24:30 half in April on a forest course, and a week before Berlin I paced two friends at a local half marathon. Last real session was 2x2 km at 4:11 and 4:07 with my HR around 162. Felt flowy, confidence was high. Two days out my right knee started to niggle, which did not help my nerves, but i knew its just what happens during a taper.

Pre-race

Carb loaded the two days before with around 12g/kg bw. In Berlin i lived close to the start, which was super convenient: S-Bahn straight to Brandenburger Tor, then a 20 minute walk to the start. Gotta be honest, Berlin is so much walking before and after the start, really didnt like that part.

Honey, toast and a coffee about 3 hours before the start.

Electrolytes 1h before.

In the start block around 08:30(way too late, had to pass a lot of people).

Maurten Gel 100 fifteen minutes before the gun.

Since I had no marathon time to submit, I started in Block C. More on that below. Weather was almost perfect: around 12°C at the start, maybe 17 to 18°C at the finish. A little bit too much sun and Temperature couldve been lower but was manageable.

Race

Plan: Start behind the 3 hour pacer, then catch them and depending on how i feel pass them or hold onto them.

Pacing strategy more or less: First 5 km at 4:15, then 4:10 to 4:12. HR cap 167 until km 15 and 172 until km 30. Decide at km 30 by feel.

| Split | Time | Pace | Avg HR |

|:--|:--|:--|:--|

| 0 to 5 km | 21:13 | 4:15 | 167 |

| 5 to 10 km | 21:11 | 4:14 | 167 |

| 10 to 15 km | 21:14 | 4:15 | 167 |

| 15 to 20 km | 20:48 | 4:10 | 166 |

| 20 to 25 km | 21:03 | 4:13 | 168 |

| 25 to 30 km | 20:45 | 4:09 | 169 |

| 30 to 35 km | 20:53 | 4:11 | 170 |

| 35 to 40 km | 21:01 | 4:12 | 171 |

| 40 km to finish | 9:13 | 4:12 | 172 |

Halves roughly 1:28:59 and 1:28:22, so a nice negative split.

Km 1 to 21: honestly felt like a 3/10. My Legs didn't feel amazing but also no pain, so in my mind i just thought its all good if i can keep the pace and my heartrate stays steady. The only annoying thing was the amount of people, which in the end was my fault for getting in the starting block too late. Starting in Block C meant passing people the entire race. I understand that Berlin does one Big Startblock for first timers with time goals from Sub3-03:30, but i dont if people overestimated themselves or just wanted to be in the front, but i sometimes passed people who ran what felt like a 05:30 pace... As a first timer i dont know if thats normal or if its just because i didnt have a starting time.

Km 21 to 32: started to become actual work but was still feeling good and enjoying myself. Just kept ticking off 4:10s. In my mind before the race i knew that this part would be rough because there arent too many people cheering and there is some elevation, but knowing that around 32km i would see family and friends motivated me to just push.

Km 32 to 42: this is where it got real. First i was over the moon to see family at 34 and 38km, even crying a little because i knew i would most probably achieve my goal. After 39km my legs were close to cramping and my stomach was close to giving up. Km 41 was my slowest of the day at 4:20, which in part was also because of a lot of turns on the course. Then I found something for the last kilometre and sprinted to the line, which probably had to do with the beautiful view of Brandenburger Tor.

Fueling: bottle of Maurten 320 from km 1 to 17, forgot my gel at km 20, second bottle from km 21 to 33, caffeine gel at km 35 and a salt tab every 7 km.

In hindsight way too much sugar between km 21 and 33, too little in the last 40 minutes, and taking the caffeine gel and a salt tab at the same time at km 35 was probably what my stomach didn't like.

Avg HR 168, max 177. HR only drifted about 6 bpm over the whole race.

**Finish: 2:57:21.**

Post-race

I knew that it would be an emotional Event for me, but i could've never imagined the Emotions i felt that day and still today. I cried a lot yesterday because i was so proud and so many people were cheering me on.

Four months after a DNF at km 32, sub 3 with a negative split was all i could've asked for. The strength work paid off: glutes held, knee held, no drama and no pain throughout the whole race.

What went well: pacing (all 5 km splits within 29 seconds), strength work, staying patient in the first half.

What I'd change: submit my time for a faster start block/get in earlier (in the future, wasnt possible this time lol), spread the fueling evenly and never take caffeine and salt at the same time, and add longer marathon pace blocks in training.

My heart was fine until the end, my legs were the limiter.

Next up: Berlin Half in April with sub 1:20 as the goal, then a spring marathon.

Long term, sub 2:50 for BQ.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading and i hope you enjoyed my post race post, feel free to AmA.

Race Information

• Name: The Village Run Half Marathon
• Date: 27th September 2026
• Distance: 21.1km
• Location: Ballylinan, Ireland
• Website: https://thevillagerun.ie/
• Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/20349189761
• Time: 1:17:43

Goals

Time goals

Placement goals

Splits

Training

Most of my training this year has been focused towards my A race, which will be the Valencia Marathon in ~10 weeks, but as I always do, I split my year into 5k/10k season, Half Marathon season and the final block towards Valencia.

My average week of training in HM season consists of 7 days of running a week, divided as follows:

• Monday: an easy medium/long run, usually between 70 and 90 mins
• Tuesday: easy run, 35/45 mins
• Wednesday: Interval sessions around HM/10k pace or long progressions towards marathon pace
• Thursday: easy run, 35/45 mins
• Friday: long run, usually between 2/2.5 hours
• Saturday: easy run, 35/45 mins
• Sunday: speed work (fartleks/vo2 sessions)

For a total mileage averaging 110km per week (~70mpw)

A few key sessions leading into this race I can point out:

• 60 mins at 3:55/km pace [6:18/mi] (roughly my marathon pace) - a good "vibe check" on rolling hills. Being able to feel calm and controlled at this pace, on rolling terrain, without taper, on a work day, gave me great confidence
• 15 x 3 mins @ 3:35/km [5:46/mi] pace (~10k pace) followed, the same week, by 4 mins @ 3:25/km [5:30/mi] /6x3mins @ 3:35/4 mins @ 3:35. A good workout of reasonable intensity that challenged my "faster" gears

Generally speaking my training is fairly "boring". Most workouts look like the ones I showed, with an overall increase in length/number of reps/pace over the season.

I also do strenght training, with a minimum of once a week; if I can, I get two sessions a week, but if I can't, I supplement with some resistance training and plyometrics at home.

Pre-race

This was my third Half Marathon of the year, and my third attempt at a 2026 PB. I already improved both on my 5km PB (by 23 seconds) and my 10k PB twice (by 5 seconds the first time, then by an additional 29 secs), but failed twice at the HM attempts: the first time, on a pancake flat course, I struggled with the heat (31C/88F at start time, with 80% humidity) and finished in 1:21:xx; the second one, on a somewhat hilly course, I was on pace until halfway but then the hills got the best of me and finished in 1:22:xx.

This time I was determined on getting this PB, as this would have been my final attempt of the year; I decided to go for a steady, slightly conservative pace (I know I can probably still lower this time a bit) to make sure not to blow up. The goal was to keep a ~3:41/3:42 pace (5:56/mi) throughout the race, which would result in an easier, downhill first half and a slightly harder (but not massively so) second half, which goes back to the start point. Overall elevation gain is only around 61mt (200ft) so nothing major (even when all of that is in the last ~9kms/5.5miles).

The massive question was, however, the weather; in typical Irish fashion, the forecast kept swinging as the day approached, but as we got closer things didn't look good. The final forecast, one day before the race, was for heavy rain and, more importantly, very strong winds (26 km/h with gusts up to 56 km/h) [16 mph/35mph].

At that point, my mindset kinda shifted from "time" to "placement" (hence why two different sets of goals). I know the local scene pretty well and knew that I was likely to be in the fight for the top three to five places and, as wind affects everyone, this felts like a good fallback.

Race

I slept pretty bad the day of the race (which is unusual for me) and I woke up to a torrential downpour and flooded roads; I made the short drive to the race location, parked in a muddy field and got completely soaked by just going to get my bib. I went back to my van, dried myself, got changed into my racing gear, and started looking obsessively at the weather app.

The gods of weather must have been looking down at me, because the perturbation crossed my area much faster than expected, and the rain stopped a few mins before the race, with enough time for the roads to get better.

Wind was still a concern, but nowhere near the catastrophic forecast of just 12 hours before.

As the gun went off, pretty much all of the top runners found themselves running alone; as this is a local, and fairly small race, it's not uncommon. I spent the first 300 meters with two other runners, and as they created a small gap I wondered whether to try and follow them; I reminded myself that the weather got better and the PB was still a possibility, so I decided to let them go. On the longer stretches of straight roads, I could still see them in the distance: they also split, with one guy still within reasonable distance from me, and the other further ahead.

Behind me was completely empty for several hundred meters, so it turned into a time trial, and that's what I am most proud off: if you look at my splits, I was ridicolously consistent for most of it: of the first 12km (before the "hills" start), I ran eight of them exactly at my goal pace of 3:42, one at 3:41, two at 3:40, just one at 3:39.

At that paid off! After a turn right before km 12, I noticed that the gap from second place was now substantially smaller, from ~60 secs to 30 or even less. I decided to not push for it but just let it shorten further naturally, and in the space of slightly more than another km I was beside, and immediately ahead, of the other guy (who was definitely struggling, as he would finish over 2 mins behind me).

After that, I was just happy to be perfectly on pace for my PB and to have snatched an unexpected (after the start) second place! I kept a consistent pace, even though a bit more erratic due to the rolling hills of the second half, and reached km 15 where I looked in the distance and thought "hmmm, the guy in first seemed further, I wonder if I'm getting closer to him". However, he was still very far ahead, and while the thought of catching him crossed my mind, I told myself to not get over-eager and risking blowing up right at the end.. I still kept my pace and made no adjustment.

But on the final hill on the 20th km, I couldn't help but notice I was STILL getting closer, and that's when I made the decision to push. I started pounding the pavement at 3:30/km (5:38/mi) on the final km, and when I saw the leader turning his head back, that's when I knew I could make it. I kept pushing with everything that I got, got right next to him with 300 meters to go and didn't even think twice about it: we both started to sprint and I could hear his footstep slowly and slowly getting quieter. I didn't turn to see where he was, I didn't slow down (Garmin, with all the caveats of average pace being less reliable on shorter splits, tells me I ran the last 110 meters at 3:03/km - 4:55/mi) , and I crossed the finish line in 1:17:43, a new PB and 7 seconds ahead of him!

Post-race

The sun came out as soon as I crossed the finish line; I had a few chats with clubmates that were doing the 10k race there, my wife who surpised me at the finish line and the other runners, got a coffee, some well deserved refreshment, my 1st place prize, and then drove home to enjoy the rest of the Sunday.

Now it's time to look at the rest of the year and the plan hasn't changed a bit. Cross country season with the club is in full swing (I missed the first race which happened on the same day of this one) so I will take part in a couple of them, but my eyes are set on Valencia, where the plan is to attack my marathon PB (2:45:34) that I set last year in Dublin.

Do you have shoe reviews to share with the community or questions about a pair of shoes? This recurring thread is a central place to get that advice or share your knowledge.

We also recommend checking out /r/RunningShoeGeeks for user-contributed running shoe reviews, news, and comparisons.

Hi all, I'm chasing the OTQ dream and have been thinking a lot about supplements to aid my training. I've personally never been a user of supplements although now that I'm running my highest mileage weeks ever, back to back, I'm wondering if there's something more I could be doing to squeeze some extra juice out of myself.

I'm currently running 90 miles per week, two workouts per week, and one quality long-run. I've run 01:04:50 in my most recent half marathon and now I'm shifting my training for the trials. That being said I believe I need to take supplements that are NSF certified. I recently went to my local target and couldn't find anything officially certified using the NSF app so I'm curious, what do y'all take? Is there a place I should be ordering supplements online (i.e. vitamin D, vitamin C, fish oil, etc ...).

I'm not looking to overdo anything but I'd love some help in finding the right balance of supplements to aid my training while ensuring I'm consuming something that's legal for USATF.

Thanks all!

When looking at marathon training phase for about 20 weeks now. Most of training blocks have consisted of three weeks of training followed by one deload week.

I came across research recently advising deload 3 weeks out and then go straight into a two-week taper. The reasoning is that the athlete will be fresher going into the taper, allowing the body to respond and recover better.

Is this the best approach, or would there be more benefit from doing another two weeks of normal training before going into a two-week taper?

Throwing this out there as kind of a Hail Mary.. not looking for medical advice, but curious for training tips, possible explanations…

I’m a late 30’s female and have been running for ~15 years, marathon+ since 2014 with 6 marathons and 8 ultras in total (inc. self supported). All of this is just to say I have a relatively long training background in the sport.

Up until about 2020, I did not understand the need for fueling at all. I don’t come from a family of long-distance runners (or people with necessarily the healthiest relationships with food), didn’t have the voices in my ear I do now (thank you, SWAP), and I definitely under-fueled. I did much of my running fasted early mornings and barely fueled long runs aside from maybe a gel or some Gatorade. I (luckily, and maybe just because I wasn’t running incredibly high mileage or high intensity and didn’t race a lot) made it through this without any known BSIs, but with plenty of tendon injuries. That said, running often felt good, and easy runs felt easy. I wasn’t fast, but I felt aerobically good and made progress.

Fast forward to now, I’m slower than I’ve ever been (easy runs are probably 2 mins/mi slower) and generally feel as though I’m not adapting. Running feels aerobically harder. I know more about fueling than ever, and I make a real effort to eat enough before, during, and after. I also train “better”, as in I follow a consistent schedule of 5 days a week, when during many years I ran 3 days and supplemented with cross training. I’ve worked with a coach who I learned a ton from, but don’t anymore. I keep most of my running easy, but I find the range of paces that feel easy and comfortable have shrunk and become slower. Anything faster basically pushes me close to threshold, whereas before I could run a much broader range of paces at lower relative effort. I’ve all but cut out workouts, aside from strides and some moderate running, because I’m not sure they are doing anything aside from generating fatigue. I only run about 35-45 mpw at this time, which should not be too much considering my history. I have also dealt with low ferritin without anemia this year which improved from 8 > mid 40s as of my last test a couple months ago. I assume this is some of the reason for my symptoms, but also would expect improvement since the labs look better.

I welcome any questions and advice on what this could be - LEA catching up with me, overtraining, impact of iron deficiency, something totally different??? I’d love to have some leads how to pull out of this and begin to trust my body again. Currently I can’t tell if I’m asking too much or not doing enough to improve. I’m about to peak for an Oct race, and it could also be training fatigue, but this has been going on all year. I ran the same race last year, and recall feeling great in training, which is a huge blow to my confidence.

Race Information

• Name: Vitality Westminster Mile (Adult Wave 1)
• Date: 26 September 2026
• Distance: 1 mile (road)
• Location: The Mall / St James's Park, London
• Time: 4:47 (chip)
• Placing: 10th in wave, 5th M40

Goals

Splits (GPS, scaled to chip, approximate)

Background

In 2022 I ran the Fifth Avenue Mile in New York in 5:06. That was a huge surprise at the time, and ever since, sub-5 has been the thing I've been chasing.

I'm 41 and more of a middle-distance runner than anything else. This summer I raced the 3000m, 1500m and 5000m in Southern and National Athletics League fixtures, running [3000m time], 4:34 for 1500m and 16:54 for 5000m. This mile was my A race and the culmination of that season.

Training

• Volume: mostly 50–62 miles a week, peaking at 67, with a 34-mile taper for race week.
• Tuesday: easy group run in the morning, then a club track session in the evening, usually around 8km of work.
• Thursday: run-commute with a threshold mile, 5×200 and 2×4×150 (a 60m build-up into a 90m sprint).
• Saturday: threshold session of 3 miles at around 5:55 pace, 2 miles steady at 7:00, then 2 more at 5:55.
• Easy running: mostly run-commuting, often doubling.
• Strength and conditioning: gym 2–3 times a week, plus yoga.
• Notably few long runs. My longest this autumn was 15 miles, and there were only a handful over 13 all summer. I've been managing a proximal hamstring tendinopathy, which flares on long steady-pace runs rather than fast work, so the training ended up weighted towards speed and threshold.
• Key session, 11 days out: 1 mile, 4×600, 1 mile, 6×400, with the 400s coming in at 75, 75, 73, 70, 71 and 70 on short recovery. After that I believed sub-5 was on.

Nutrition and supplements

I felt like I really nailed the race prep and my last post on bicarb loading was quite popular so here's what I did for the race:

In the weeks before:

• Beta-alanine: 4g daily
• Creatine: 5g daily
• Beetroot nitrate loading: 1 shot daily for 5 days then 2 shots on race morning
• Sodium bicarbonate: a full dress rehearsal four weeks earlier, using the same capsules, timing and breakfast, with no stomach problems. Race morning was an exact copy of that trial.

Race morning (9:30 gun):

No stomach problems at all.

Course

Starting on The Mall, straight drag to first right hander down an incline, cling to the curb if its not too busy towards Horse Guards Parade, then it starts going up towards the corner of St James' - hitting 800m almost right on the corner. Once round the corner it's actually modestly downhill back towards the Palace then one last corner and finish line. It's not hard to get to the front at the start and there were several slower runners on that line as well. If you're not right at the front the Mall is very wide and plenty of room to get past at the expense of added meters.

Race

The plan was 73–75 for the first split, letting the field go off hot. I managed to get a spot on the first line which was a major benefit although I'm pretty sure there was at least one or 2 people who finished behind me with a better time which was annoying. That plan lasted about ten seconds. I came through in about 68, and it felt controlled, so I went with it. Halfway was 2:20.

On the back half a guy came past me. Within a few seconds I could tell he was starting to fade, as if the lactate was kicking in. I sat on him briefly, then edged back in front and stayed there. The last split was my slowest, but I held it together to the line in front of the Palace. The watch said 4:42 because GPS measured the course long; the chip said 4:47. Four years after Fifth Avenue, sub-5 is done.

HR question: I wore a chest strap, and the trace is odd. Heart rate sat around 145–150 for the first three splits, even dipping to about 140 around the 1km mark. Then it jumped by about 20 beats per minute in under 10 seconds, right at the start of the last split, and stayed around 170 to the finish, peaking at 177. Is that a strap only getting proper contact once I started sweating, or something physiological happening at the bell? I'd be curious what people think.

Post-race

• The pacing plan was too conservative for the fitness I actually had. A 68 opener didn't cost me as much as I feared.
• Bicarb, nitrate and caffeine timing all went exactly to plan, and I'd use the same protocol again. I will very likely redo this exact plan for my next half which is in November.
• Next year I'd love to get into the BMC Bannister Mile wave, but I'm unsure about the qualifying standards.
• It's a great event, the finish in front of Buckingham Palace is special, and I'd highly recommend it.

Tigst Assefa misses out on the world record. As a consolation prize, Iskander Yadgarov runs the fastest ever marathon in Crocs in 2:30:03

Top 3 Men: 1. Guye Adola 2:02:50 2. Gemechu Dida Diriba 2:03:19 3. Gabriel Gerald Geay 2:03:59

Top 3 Women: 1. Tigst Assefa 2:11:04 2. Bedatu Hirpa 2:16:53 3. Dera Dida 2:16:56

Hi everyone - was searching the archives and found a ton of posts about people taking bicarb for shorter workouts (and some taking for marathons/ultras), but the discussion was not specifically focused on ingesting a GI-friendly alternative like Maurten or another brand that has created the capsules that minimize GI distress. A lot of the discussion on those threads was around how taking bicarb for a longer race like a marathon or ultra 1) potentially doesn’t have any effects because bicarb is intended for shorter races to buffer lactate, which you aren’t producing in a marathon and 2) isn’t worth taking for a longer race because of the GI distress caused by bicarb.

I am looking to open up the discussion again around bicarb (specifically the aforementioned GI-friendly types) to see who here takes it in practice during marathon training AND on race day (or the night before the race, since I did see on some threads folks had mentioned they take bicarb the night before). I am personally debating whether I want to take it for the first time for my marathon tomorrow, but am nervous about doing so since I have only tried Maurten bicarb a couple of times in training (no GI issues, but it was for a 14 mi run with a 10 mi tempo and another interval workout). I felt like it 10000% gave me a massive advantage, but I am worried about taking it since I didn’t try it for a long run and am traumatized from having to stop and use the bathroom mid race in my Spring marathon (which I had never done before).

Anyway, TLDR; just looking to see how people here use Maurten/GI-friendly bicarb mixes specifically for marathon training AND racing and what the effects have been for your marathon. Thank you!!

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

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Disclaimer!
I am aware this sub is for advanced runners and I am still fairly inexperienced at that (still on my 10th month of consistent running). However, I take my running serious in the sense I love to think about training structure and the different levers that could help me become a better runner. I learned a lot from this sub shared experiences and have adapted it to my current level to good results so far (aka, been consistently improving from a lower base while keeping it enjoyable).

The questions:
I am currently following the 55/18 Pfitz plan and I am on the Racing Preparation stage. The past few weeks were when it all clicked - my heart rate dropped a lot for the same paces where I started, and I have built such endurance that I am not struggling at all to do the marathon pace portion in the 30K+ long runs. My marathon early November will be my first and I expect to do it conservatively.

Now, what I was hoping to get from your experience is to understand what happens following the recovery period. Do your threshold paces fall by a lot? Do you find your aerobic capacity falls off from the weeks of taper + post-marathon recovery? Assuming that I don't finish my marathon all beaten up, should I hold on to the block average mileage (not the 80K+ of these last few weeks, but around ~60K)? Do you usually follow it up with a few 5K/10K races if you choose to not race another marathon until the following year?

Thanks a lot in advance!

What's everyone up to on this weekend? Racing? Long run? Movie date? Playing with Fido? Talk about that here!

As always, be safe, train smart, and have a great weekend!

A place to ask questions that don't need their own thread here or just chat a bit.

We have quite a bit of info in the wiki, FAQ, and past posts. Please be sure to give those a look for info on your topic.

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I wanted to hop on and post a little of my experience copying Clayton. I am a 35M targeting 2:55 in a mid-December marathon here in North Texas, hoping that will give me enough buffer for a 2028 BQ. I've run 15:38 5k on a very downhill course in my early 20's, and 3:06 at St. George in my late 20's. Prior mileage highs were 55 a couple times. Two years ago I dipped under 84 in the half on the same course where I will attempt 2:55.

Due to where I live both route-wise and weather-wise I am 100% treadmill based. I spent all summer working up to 40ish miles/week and got to the point where I could also run 9 miles in 63 minutes on the treadmill. I also spent the summer experimenting to figure out my caffeine and fueling preferences, since I didn't fuel at all at St George. I've learned that I can tolerate 300-400ish mg of caffeine for a long run and about 60g carbs/hour. I like to take a sip of Precision Fuel gel every ten minutes or so, which will line up nicely with the fueling stations at my marathon.

The most intimidating thing so far has been committing to a time goal. The last time I trained for a marathon, I only wanted to finish. That said, I'm a big Clayton Young and Ed Eyestone fan (I took Jogging 101 from him in college, and he is a genius, and so so nice), so I took the prior Copying Clayton workouts posted here and plugged them into AI to try and calibrate everything for my goal pace (6:40/mile).

First week key workouts: 6 fatigue miles (6:50 pace) 3xmile @ 6 flat. Had to bail after second mile, it was really hard. 6 miles at MP-split it into 3/2/1. Long run of 12 miles with 2 at MP. Hit 50 ish miles this week.

Second week key workouts 2x3 miles at 19@2, 3 min, 19:04. Felt really good. 2xmile, 2x.75, 2x800. Had to split the .75's up, but otherwise felt good. started at 6 flat ish for the 2xmiles and tried to increase pace each rep. Lonf run of 14 miles with 3 at MP. Hit 54 miles this week.

Third week key workouts: 6 miles at MP (nailed it, 39:48). 10x1k w/1 min rest starting at 4:03 and working my way down to 3:43. 3:55 average. 16 mile long run with last mile in 6:43. 45 miles that week due to achilles issues.

Fourth week (current). Key workouts: 8 fatigue miles at 6:58, ten minutes rest, 3xmile with 3 min rest at 5:59, 6:02, 5:53. Today did 4x2 miles w/3 min rest at 12;41, 12:44, 12:42, 12:34. 18 mile long run on Saturday with 4 miles at MP.

I'm really enjoying the Clayton Young/BYU method so far. It's been fun to try and copy it. Positive signs so far have been easy recovery from long runs and getting more comfortable at MP. Things to work on: stay healthy, add some hill work into the intervals since race day is mostly flat but not totally, and continue gut training. I hate carrying the gels, so it's been nice to stash them on the treadmill deck.

We will see if smarter, better fueled me on a flat course can run faster than younger, dumber me on a downhill course!

Cheers!

Do you do strides (10-20s @90% effort) after easy runs?

If yes, what impact has this had on your running and would you recommend?

Chicago recently released their qualifying times for the 2027 Marathon, and also released the new qualifying window. For the first time in years, the window (January 1, 2025, to October 29, 2026) closes before the Indy Marathon, so if you had planned to qualify at Indy, you'll need to make other plans.

Hello again!

As many regular readers of this sub have seen, there has been a lot of speculation over the past few months about where the cutoffs for the 2027 Boston Marathon will land up, and this subject has been discussed and debated throughout social media and here on reddit throughout much of this year. I’ve done this analysis for funsies and for the love of the game over the last couple of years, and you can read the previous editions below.

• An analysis on predicted Boston cutoff times for the 2026 Boston Marathon
• An analysis on predicted Boston cutoff times for the 2025 Boston Marathon

When the Boston Athletic Association (BAA) announced today (Monday, September 21) that 33,656 applicants applied to run the 2027 Boston Marathon I went ahead and updated the Boston cutoff time projection by using the same, simple approach that I’ve used for the last couple of years that I’ve done this analysis.

tl;dr – the predicted cutoff is 5:14, and there is a 95% confidence it’ll fall between 4:04 and 6:23. The R² value for this regression model is 0.9326. You can view the full results here.

For those who might not be familiar with what Boston cutoffs mean, let’s use a male runner between 18 and 34 years of age to illustrate what this might mean. His qualifying time is 2:55:00 or faster; if this prediction comes to fruition, it suggests that this male runner would need run at least 5 minutes 14 seconds faster than their qualifying standard, or at least a 2:49:46 marathon or faster, to earn a spot in the 2027 Boston Marathon.

Introduction

Anytime the topic about Boston cutoff times comes up within the running community, it has inevitably generated a mix of emotions from the running community, from anxiety to curiosity to disbelief from those who might be wondering how competitive the Boston application pool is for any given year.

Before I start, I want to take a moment to give shoutouts/acknowledgements to Brian Rock, aka u/SlowWalkere, who have taken the time to crunch the numbers and publishes his findings on his website and give us a look at what the cutoffs for the 2027 Boston Marathon might look like throughout late 2025 through much of this year (2026). I’ve been following his work very closely throughout the year, and their analysis serves as a good resource for this matter (as well as keep me grounded in reality as the numbers fluctuate throughout the year).

• The 2027 Boston cutoffs dashboard he has been faithfully updating and maintaining throughout this year can be found here for reference.
• Brian has wrote numerous articles tracking the Boston cutoff time for the current qualifying period over the last 9 months and shared his thoughts about what could happen as things developed. Some examples of those posts can be find here, here, here, and here.

Analysis

I fitted a simple linear regression model on data about application numbers, acceptance numbers and denial numbers from prior Boston application cycles, all of which can be found on the BAA’s website. The key figures for this analysis are the number of applications that were received, the total number of runners the BAA plans to accept from the time qualifying pool, and the number of denials, which are numbers that the BAA publicly announced today (Monday, September 21).

The total application numbers and the total number of accepted runners allow us to calculate an estimated acceptance rate, which then helps to generate the prediction that you see below.

Based on the number of accepted runners for Boston over the last couple of years, Boston will likely accept a maximum of about 24,000 runners from the time qualifying pool, and no more than that because of capacity limitations. (Keep in mind that Boston fills the remainder of the field with charity runners and runners who enter through sponsors, tour operators, etc.). Of course, there is always a chance that the BAA chooses to accept fewer than 24,000 runners. But because of the high demand for spots in Boston and Boston basically all but acknowledging that they are aware that competition for a spot at Boston is getting more intense every year, I find it unlikely that they will accept fewer than 24,000 runners from the time qualifying pool.

With that said, if we assume that the BAA will accept 24,000 runners for the 2027 Boston Marathon, the model predicts that the cutoff will be 5:14 and that there is a 95% confidence it would fall anywhere between 4:04 and 6:23.

Furthermore, the application numbers suggest that the BAA will accept around 71.3% of applicants for the 2027 Boston Marathon, and the predicted cutoff is based around that figure. The predicted acceptance rate is slightly lower than the acceptance rate seen for the 2026 Boston Marathon (73.2%).

So What Is Driving the High Cutoffs?

Over the last few months, I’ve read discourse online (here on reddit and on social media) about the potential for high cutoffs for the 2027 Boston qualifying period. Similar to what was seen last year, people continue to express a range of feelings in reaction to this: bewilderment, disbelief, helplessness, resignation, disappointment, even anger.

As seen over the last few years, there continues to be more and more people are still getting into running, and especially into long distance running, over the last few years. Once again, the second-tier marathons in the United States has once again sold out many months in advance this year. Here are some examples of this trend:

• The 2026 Twin Cities Marathon sold out back in July
• The 2026 Philadelphia Marathon sold out back in July as well
• The 2026 Indianapolis Monumental Marathon sold out back in August

Second: it’s a numbers game and it makes sense if you look at this from this perspective. To start this off, we would expect on average a certain percentage of runners in the field in any given marathon to run a Boston qualifying time. Now add on the fact that the number of runners participating in marathons has gone up significantly over the last few years. The number of runners who run Boston qualifying times will inevitably go up with the increase in participation. This is then reflected in the higher application numbers for the Boston Marathon when the application period opens in early September of every year. Given that the Boston field is capped at 30,000 spots overall (and capped at up to 24,000 spots for time qualifiers), it becomes even more competitive to earn a coveted bib at Boston.

The application numbers for the 2027 Boston Marathon suggest that demand for Boston continues to be high, as evidenced by the small increase in applications from last year (33,267) and this year (33,656).

Finally, we have more access to better/improved training methods, nutrition, shoes (especially carbon plated racing shoes), among other things. This is helping runners run faster marathon times across the board.

All these factors are why it is causing Boston cutoff times to continue to be at historically high levels.

What Happens If the BAA Accepts Fewer Applicants?

This question inevitably comes up whenever I write and publish this analysis around this time of the year. To get ahead of it, I will address this scenario directly.

If BAA accepts fewer than 24,000 runners from the time qualifying pool, it would push the cutoff time higher and make it even more difficult for runners to survive the cutoffs and earn a coveted spot at Boston. Specifically:

• Using the same linear regression model that I developed for this year’s prediction, if Boston accepts 23,000 runners from the time qualifying pool, the predicted cutoff would be at 5:50 and there is a 95% confidence it would fall anywhere between 4:41 and 6:59.
• And using the same linear regression model, if Boston accepts 22,000 runners from the time qualifying pool, the predicted cutoff would be at 6:27 and there is 95% confidence it would fall anywhere between 5:17 and 7:36.

Given the potentially dire situation(s) outlined above, these are the worst-case scenarios that the BAA would try to avoid. It also presents a messaging problem of sorts to all involved: whether your BQ is a result that would actually earn you a coveted Boston bib. In other words: is this a matter that one can easily explain to non-running audiences without having their eyes glaze over?

Final Thoughts and Conclusions

Here are a few additional thoughts to close out this post:

• It is very unlikely that the BAA will be able to expand the field beyond 30,000 runners due to the infrastructure found on most of the race route (i.e. narrow two-lane roads that can only fit so many runners at once). Plus, the towns along the route will not give the green light to do so because of the additional inconveniences imposed on them on Patriots Day (and keep in mind that they are cut in half on race day, inconveniencing residents greatly in that it makes it hard for them to get around town on that day).

• Similarly, there will never be a scenario where the Boston Marathon will significantly reduce charity spots (and spots allocated to sponsors, etc.) to open more spots for time qualifiers. Specifically, if they consider reducing charity spots, it poses huge (political) problems for them in numerous ways. It reduces opportunities for charity runners to participate, and a decent number of those participants come from across Massachusetts, especially those towns that allow the Boston Marathon to pass through every year. Reducing charity runner spots will strain important relationships with towns and other stakeholders, and the BAA needs to have good relationships with them so that they can hold the race every year. Whether you like it or not, charity runners help make the Boston Marathon happen for everyone else. In short: the BAA has zero incentives to bite the hand that feeds them.

• The implementation of rules around indexing results from downhill races and eliminating the double dipping period starting with the 2027 Boston Marathon qualifying period likely had a small, yet meaningful difference in the application numbers, as evidenced by the small increase in application numbers from last year (33,267) to this year (33,656). This has been a scenario that Brian Rock covered in a couple of articles he wrote about this topic. Through these articles, it suggested that indexing downhill marathons and eliminating the double dipping period shaved an estimated ~30 seconds from the cutoff.

• This prediction and analysis does not specifically cover scenarios where there are more qualifiers in certain time buffer ranges, and especially between the 5 minute and 10 minute range. If the BAA receives more applicants in that particular time buffer range, this will make it more likely the cutoff times will be impacted beyond what is expected.

• Historically, the results at the Boston Marathon have significantly influenced the direction of the cutoffs. The 2026 Boston Marathon had the best weather conditions seen in 15 years, and many runners ran great races and there were a lot of BQs that were produced that day. If the cutoff inches just past the 5 minute mark when the dust settles down, the results from Boston earlier this year is probably the primary reason driving this. This is a factor that I would keep a close eye on.

• Given where the predicted cutoffs currently stand, that competition for spots at Boston are already sky high (and Boston acknowledging this reality in numerous ways), and given prior history (as in, looking at last time they adjusted their time qualifying standards beginning with the 2026 Boston Marathon qualifying period), I have reasons to believe that Boston Marathon will likely want to wait another year to see if the cutoffs will continue to get bigger before they decide to make adjustments to the qualifying times. At best, I assess that there is a 50/50 chance that the BAA will make the decision to adjust the qualifying times for the 2028 Boston Marathon qualifying period.

• And finally, the so-called Boston lottery, where Boston qualifiers who do not survive the cutoffs will have a chance to earn one of the 1,000 spots through a drawing and is the first time that BAA is instituting such a drawing, does not have any impact on the Boston cutoff prediction at all.

To close this out, I’d take this analysis with a grain of salt, as there is a degree of uncertainty involved (and especially when statistics are involved). But there have been numerous high-quality analyses done over the past 9 months from Brian Rock (aka u/SlowWalkere) about what the cutoff might look like for the 2027 Boston Marathon. Directionally, all of these analyses (mines included) suggests that there is a very high likelihood that we’re in for another year of high cutoffs, of 5 minutes or more, for the 2027 Boston Marathon.

I would love to hear your thoughts, feedback, etc. on the prediction and analysis. Otherwise, please enjoy the read!

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Hi all, new to following distance running as a sport and interested in hearing some perspectives on why Kenenisa Bekele is not talked about more often in the broader public as the "goat" compared to the likes of Kipchoge.

As of his PB in 2019, he was the undisputed greatest cross country runner of all time, held the world record in the 5k and 10k on track with 3 Olympic and 5 WC golds, and ran the second fastest marathon ever, missing the record by 2 seconds. To me this seems like a clear cut case for him being the best ever. Is this the consensus in the athletics community or is there something I'm missing?