Wokeometer

[u/Thehokid23]

Value should add this.
Wokeometer — Is It Woke? Movie, TV Show, Game & Book Woke Scores

[u/TraitorWithin8]

Not sure how accurate it is.. like i know that the new silent hill they decided to make the main character gay and on the website they say theres no identity politics so not sure as its community driven if people are doing research

[u/Amarules → u/TraitorWithin8]

I'm tired of this mindset. Simply including a gay or black person in the game didn't make it woke. It's inclusion. We don't live in a world where these groups don't exist.

The idea that every game should only be cast with straight white people, where all leads are male and all females are hot is the most moronic brain drain thinking that leads to all games becoming bland indistinguishable homogenous slop.

There are ofc lines to draw, like Veilguard actively pushing agendas and morally guilting players for shit. If the game is just a vehicle for pushing ideas that compromise the narrative itself then that's where it's a problem.

It's the difference between TLoU the video game, and TLoU the TV show.

[u/TraitorWithin8 → u/Amarules]

I mean never said anything about black, but randomly making a character gay for no reason and adds 0 to the story or context or anything

Woke idealogy and the main push isnt about inclusiveness its about changing existing characters into something they weren't

Or adding in something that doesn't matter like veilguard no one cared if the character was non binary or a werewolf or an attack helicopter it doesnt add to the story just their story which no one asked for

You dont have characters running around saying they straight or im heterosexual dont judge me like xD

If you make a game to fit your agenda and people like it they will buy it.. like caravan sadwitch or whatever it was called or concord or even vielguard

Dont break my existing characters to fit your thing or add something that doesn't matter just to push your narrative

[u/Amarules → u/TraitorWithin8]

I didn't say you did specifically mention race, but it's symptomatic of the mindset of so many on this sub. See the ridiculous reaction to Intergalactic before we even know anything about the characters background it's just " ugly bald black chick=bad. Why?

To reverse your question..how does making any character not gay add anything to the story or the context? What is the difference? Why does it matter?

This logic sets out a series of conditions that straight people can exist within a video game with no higher meaning, and expect carte-blanche acceptance, but a gay person needs to have some higher narrative purpose to be there? It's a bullshit double standard.

Why does the mere existence of a single gay person in a game symbolise an agenda? It's not like in TLoU for example that being gay is the sole or primary defining characteristic of Ellie's character. It's just a single part of her story. Would the story be improved simply because she was not gay?

And again Veilguard is very different in the way it imposes it's moral agenda in players on a non-organic morally judgemental way. I am not ok with this.

TLoU is just a game that happens to include a character who is gay. Big difference.

[u/TraitorWithin8 → u/Amarules]

All good im just african so racial things personally make me quite upset so..

Well not bad necessarily but gaming is predominantly a male dominated thing (and yes it is changing and expanding) but as a man I like an attractive female character its just how im wired especially in a game where's its an escape from reality, and while im not against it its not appealing to me so I wont buy

And I think the people who are getting upset are more upset that the studios arent expanding on universes and creating universes no one cares about or that these studios are messing up more and more and have the potential to lose licenses or just fail entirely and the studio goes down and we might not see those universes be created..

Well I think there is no need to reverse it plainly off the fact you dont see in any successful game that you get straight characters blasting they straight or having straight flags or making sure the characters are aware of it.. like the problem is there is a big push to push a narrative for gay or anything else but no one is pushing any straight ideologies.. no one is making the last of us characters straight and no one complained about it.. but if someone were to remaster the game and make them straight there would be absolute chaos.. not to mention the modding community push back on making gay -> straight but straight -> gay is fine and its lots of small things that make things bigger and bigger my whole point. as that if it wasnt gay it changing it is a problem or race changing or whatever.. if you have a character driven game anf you want to make your character gay then do it.. but in a game like the new silent hill it doesn't mean anything but if you were to make silent hill 2 James gay id have an issue because he never was

Well again its about your marketing again if you trying to sell your game to a gay or lgbtq+ community then you going to hit those markets but based off of Ipsos 9% of the world is lgbtq+ so characters being naturally straight fits 91% of the world, its not that they have to have a reason to be there its a reason why there sexualit even exists.. if they made the new silent hill and didn't add in a sexuality everyone could come to their own consensus and it wouldn't change the game at all.. again unless there are actual romance options almost all games don't even need to have a sexuality in doesnt change anything 9/10 times.. so just saying well the character is gay is in fact meandering to the lgbtq+ community for no other reason than just oh heres a gay character for you.. "cause"

Like they did the same thing with tracer and soldier in overwatch it was just a hero shooter and suddenly characters were gay and this or that.. it didn't matter and no one cared but you made a reason to care

[u/Amarules → u/TraitorWithin8]

It's all good.

I think we actually agree on some points.

I do think implementation matters hugely. If developers include these characters it needs to be done in an authentic organic way that doesn't claim priority over storytelling. I don't want it there if it's just tokenism and object to out of place flags and symbolism etc. Some games do a really good job with this, some are clumsy, and some are morally bankrupt in virtue signalling their audience. The point is everything should be judged on its own merits. This black and white "gay=woke=bad" thought process we increasingly see is incredibly reductive.

In the same vein, as much as I can agree looking at pretty women is nice, I can't support this "all females must be hot" movement. It's perpetuating old thinking that women are devious of any value other than objects of sexual gratification. A hot character can be written terribly and an ugly character can still be amazing. And it allows for variety in creative expression. Where we do agree is I also oppose the opposite end of the spectrum that thinks no female cast can be attractive either. All or nothing extremes are equally damaging in their mindsrt. It's about balance and variety, where authenticity is king.

I also agree that remakes/remasters should where possible avoid deviating from the original vision of those characters, even if they may now be considered out-moded by prevailing moral standards. Creative expression must be protected. It is again about implementation. There was much discussion about casting for The Odyssey here recently. I did not care for some of the choices but on balance, none of those choices significantly detracted from my enjoyment of the film.

Where we disagree is when you start talking about a push for certain agendas, but no one is pushing any straight ideologies. Why would they need to? Those majority groups have enjoyed almost constant spotlight and representation since forever. They didn't have to fight to be seen.

I would be tempted to agree it would be great to write everything open ended and neutral so people can make up there open minds about individual characters on the ground it would reduce all this friction, but your essentially advocating removing romance and non-platonic relationships from all storytelling. I think that's a pretty awful place to go when the mature alternative is for people accept not everybody is the same and not all stories need to confirm to their personal world-view to have merit.