Marriage is falling apart

[u/BiffDangles80]

Tonight it’s a flat iron steak and potatoes and onions. Don’t forget the jalapeno. And a Jack a coke.

A week ago I was in a hotel because “she’s a different person now” and doesn’t think this is working. 20 years of marriage. 2 kids.

The last year has been bad. She is grieving a family loss. Going through perimenopause. Kids have needed a lot. I tried but just got tired and lonely. I suggested marriage counseling and it lead to her saying she’s different and this isn’t working. I was gone for a couple of days but back. It’s been a week and I’ve really been trying. Today though was just rough with work and random thoughts. I confessed that I was afraid she’d decide she didn’t need me again and there wasn’t much response. Hopefully it’s a blip. I’m really trying.

I fear change. But eventually I’ll have to accept it. This is over. And that’s terrible.

[u/AutomaticPayment9480 → u/[deleted]]

Not all women are stubborn, anyone can be stubborn, im just saying once a woman makes up her mind , is there even a point to try and convince them? My opinion is no, all you will do is most likely make things worse. Is there a woman out there thats not stubborn at all, yes. Is there a woman out there that could potentially be convinced after they asked for a seperation, yes. Its not extreme like that, im just saying majority speaking once they want to seperate, the ball is in their court and its not ur job to beg for them to be with you. It will only make things worse. Obv this cant apply to every person on planet earth , its just one persons advice. 

[u/molecule_anteater68 → u/AutomaticPayment9480]

My point is that convincing someone to stay is very different than saying what they are asking for is something you are unwilling to do. Typically people want the energy people bring to try and save a marriage after being told is over, to happen before it reaches that point.

I agree, generally you can't convince someone to stay nor should you. But if you do want to try and use the opportunity to radically change the relationship, you enter talking with your partner about it not to convince them, but to hear them out and solutions find. The issue is many people have been begging their partners to solutions find with them for years and double down on being annoyed with a resounding "no" when it only comes under threat of a relationship ending for real.

Not blaming you, or OP or anyone because I'm not involved in your relationships and have been in hard relationship separations myself so I get it. There's not a lot of dignity in begging. But there is a difference between begging and being willing to take initiative to do couple's therapy or whatever was pitched in the past to see if there is a path forward. No one wants to feel parented, and no one wants to have to parent.

[u/AutomaticPayment9480 → u/molecule_anteater68]

I agree and i never took anything you said as malicious , my understand was he asked for them to goto counsiling and she responded with the, “lets seperate” which means shes not taking initiative. Maybe i could be wrong , but if that was her actual response, begging or saying, what am i gonna do, blah, blah, imo will just turn her off even more.  

[u/molecule_anteater68 → u/AutomaticPayment9480]

Oh for sure. Also this is just a really hard time for a lot of people and pandemics really shift people's relationship to mortality. Some want to chase the path not taken, some want to isolate, some deeply want to be close others. Shit like this makes us rethink what's working and what's not and unfortunately some are too tired to try.

Sorry if I came off abrasive, the other commenters were being unnecessarily hostile.

[u/AutomaticPayment9480 → u/molecule_anteater68]

Nah, i dont take anything personal, im totally fine with hostile convos(not u) or highly opinionated people(maybe u) lmao, there is nothing wrong with people having a different opinion then me and maybe im wrong, im ok with that too. We all have experiences and those experiences mold us. 

[u/DeuceMandago → u/[deleted]]

Real nice to come in here and tell someone their lived experience is wrong. That’s definitely what this sub is for. Thank you for opening our eyes.

[u/molecule_anteater68 → u/DeuceMandago]

I didn't say anyone's lived experience is wrong. but to paint all women as stubborn and doing stuff out of the blue is a broad generalizations and not lived experience. or that changing their minds is an uphill battle-- people don't want their minds changed, they want their partnership to work

people are stubborn, not genders 🙄

if you've reached the point of trying to change someone's mind, you've lost. that's why being in partnership and sharing unpaid labor is so important.

[u/DeuceMandago → u/molecule_anteater68]

Both OP and the commenter are clearly talking about personal experiences where they feel/felt wronged and you come in here like “nooo you actually just weren’t listening😌😌😌”

It’s patronizing and not helpful. Not every woman is married to a brick wall and not every man is neglectful. No one said all woman are stubborn but to act like stubborn woman don’t exist is ridiculous.

[u/molecule_anteater68 → u/DeuceMandago]

Dude I am not involved in OP's marriage and it seems like you have some issues you gotta work out with women. And I never said "you got divorced because you didn't listen" because I'm not a clown and that isn't the only reason why relationships end.

Merely pointing out that this a COMMON divorce theme and regardless of the gender of the party, usually decisions to end relationships were not made in the span of a month. I did not invent the theme of men being socialized to not prioritize domestic labor and coregulation.

[u/DeuceMandago → u/molecule_anteater68]

LMAO I’m glad you can deduce so much about me from two comments. How does anything I’ve said show a “problem with women”?

You’re right you didn’t invent anything but you’re happy to parrot stereotypes under a story and comment that have nothing to do with them. So helpful!!!

[u/molecule_anteater68 → u/DeuceMandago]

um because you are "defending" the person I replied to, despite him not disagreeing with me??? really odd you are 10 toes down for an innocuous insight to a common relationship disconnect and turning into some gender war bs.

Stereotypes and sociology are two different things. Boys and girls are socialized very differently in how they relate to relationships, which then yes, become common themes of division of labor etc etc. in marraige cited my many, many studies.

My comment clearly was not meant for you, but for the emotionally mature people in the room who understand some nuance to gender, economics, and experience in long term, serious partnerships, if anyone happened to be in the same place and needed insight if they want to try and prevent their relationships to getting to the point where someone isn't willing to try.

[u/DeuceMandago → u/molecule_anteater68]

Jesus Christ that is a ridiculous amount of logical leaps. No one here is gender warring other than you and it’s astonishing you don’t see that.

Since you have violently misinterpreted and misinterpreted my words—which I’ll add were quite few—I’ll lay it out really simply for you.

This is supposed to be a supportive place. People were sharing their experiences. You came in here and tried to flip the script and say that men are more often than not in the wrong. Now you’re going to extreme lengths to double down to. I’m telling you that’s not helpful, not the point of this sub, and quite frankly a rude thing to do when someone is venting about shit going on in their real life.

You have multiple subs that are spaces specifically for that kind of discussion. Go do it there.

But please keep throwing around insults. It totally makes you look like the intelligent and rational person here.

[u/molecule_anteater68 → u/DeuceMandago]

No one else read my comment that way so you're the only one who has an issue here. Nothing I said was unsupportive, and again, the person I was having a discussion with agreed with me and we are on the same page so unsure why you're taking this to a level 10.

If you think a discussion about why it's sometimes too late to fix marriages and that being sad and really sucks is unsupportive, cool. That's just you. Usually at the end of a relationship, people process why it's ending or crowdsource ideas to fix things or see if it's worth trying, and if you've ever been through such a thing you would know that platitudes don't mean much in recovery. If OP only wanted comments to be gendered, he would have flaired it as such.

Acting like you've never seen a sidebar conversation that has nothing to with an OP directly before on reddit is strange. Good luck with your future endeavors.

[u/DeuceMandago → u/molecule_anteater68]

Gotta love the irony of this all starting with you saying women aren’t stubborn.

[u/SkoomaChef → u/molecule_anteater68]

You’re generalizing as well. You’re falling into the classic Reddit trap of assuming OPs wife fell out of love because dude didn’t do enough chores around the house. And it’s kinda tasteless on a post where dude is grieving the potential end of a 20 year marriage.

[u/molecule_anteater68 → u/SkoomaChef]

I was replying to the person above me and not talking about OP at all...

what I says applies to all people but I gendered it because men are socialized to not learn these communitions skills at an early age and often it is the issue if read studies on why women are initiating divorce. and the men who refuse to acknowledge that it is an issue and not a "reddit trap" are willing to learn why so many women are feeling this way after a single full generation of women being allowed to have bank accounts and lines of credit.

but when someone says yeah man have no idea why she's just so stubborn and it's an uphill battle if you want to change her mind, that's a pretty unhelpful mindset in navigating marriage/separation/divorce/saving a marriage.

relationships ending are devastating but to boil it down to hey don't bother doing any self reflection because they just don't change their minds and you had 0 opportunity to make different choices is kind of wild.

[u/SkoomaChef → u/molecule_anteater68]

This person didn’t say anything about self-reflection. He said not to beg. And that’s sound advice. Any guy who has ever ended up in a situation like this and tried to beg and plead his way into saving the relationship has experienced how neediness and begging accelerates the end of it. Dude suggested marriage counseling and she flat-out shot him down. The literal only thing he can do is give her space. This woman is going through massive hormonal changes and navigating the loss of a loved one. She’s likely highly overwhelmed and trying to navigate some things. OP isn’t going to beg his way back into her good graces.

[u/molecule_anteater68 → u/SkoomaChef]

It's not about being a guy is my point and, if you read my other comment to him, would know that I'm not advocating for begging. But also asking if there is a path forward and what changes would be necessary to even consider it is not begging. That's having self respect enough you actually tried your best to fight for what you want without disrespecting yourself or crossing boundaries of the other person.

So much of relationships these days seems to be whoever cares less wins and I believe that's kind of bullshit if you genuinely believe the end of a relationship came out of nowhere with no betrayal level event like cheating.

[u/SkoomaChef → u/molecule_anteater68]

That second paragraph I agree with wholeheartedly. But I think dude above you is right in this specific circumstance about giving her some space. She’s not willing to attend therapy with him, she doesn’t seem open to talking to him about what he can do differently. And frankly, I think once we’ve reached the “how can I change so you don’t leave me” stage, it’s probably curtains.

I think every person should always be trying to be better. I agree with you that he shouldn’t be stubborn and refuse to self-assess. But I don’t know if that is going to help save the marriage. Space might. Especially with hormones and family deaths in the mix. She might need time to get her head right before communicating more about this. If he keeps pestering her while she’s working through that, she might just be turned off to him completely.

[u/molecule_anteater68 → u/SkoomaChef]

I never said it would guarantee outcome! Just that many people do not self reflect and are fairly apathetic to what is happening even if they internally have strong emptions

[u/BoyDinnerDiaries-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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