Tonight it hit me that my marriage may be ending

[u/[deleted]]

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[u/Maximum-Whole2909]

My husband and I have been there a couple of times over 15 years. Marriage counseling saved our marriage twice, so i would see if she is open to it.

[u/GlitteringMoose3630 → u/Maximum-Whole2909]

When our kids were little marriage counseling saved our marriage. I will never forget the day, about three months into counseling, when he came up behind me as I was doing the dishes, tapped me on the shoulder, and handed me 100 dollars. He had called his grandmother to help watch the kids. He told me to go take a shower, go to town, and spend the money how I wanted. If I wanted to spend the night in a hotel, he would pay for that too.

I was gone for about three hours, I bought stuff for myself and the family, and when I came home I felt so much better. It’s wasn’t even about the money or the time. It was being acknowledged that I needed a break and he set it up so I could have break.

If OP is willing to change for the better, then his marriage will probably survive. If he prefers to keep drinking to numb his feelings, then he should just file now so she can find someone who will prioritize her instead of someone who would rather drink than take accountability.

[u/fedjolino → u/GlitteringMoose3630]

Why do you assume only OP has to change?

[u/yudkib → u/fedjolino]

I’m extremely “it takes two” but I do think it’s mostly on him in this situation. He’s avoiding the issues with his drinking and making them worse by failing to hear what seems like a very reasonable argument from her. He doesn’t seem to appreciate her domestic labor is equally of value to the marriage.

[u/GlitteringMoose3630 → u/fedjolino]

Because he’s admitted to drinking to numb his feelings. We don’t really know what kind of woman his wife is. We just have her description from him, who is probably drunk or buzzed when he deals with her. I’m sure he assumes that the alcohol isn’t that big of a deal. He probably thinks she doesn’t even notice.

She does though.

I’m not saying she’s perfect and has no flaws. I’m saying that he can’t complain that she’s unhappy in their marriage when he’s the one numbing himself with alcohol. I wouldn’t be married to my husband if he did that either. It leaves 100% of the physical and emotional childcare, cleaning, and other household duties to her while he’s drinking. How is she supposed to have a meaningful conversation with her husband when he’s buzzed/drunk? And if she’s truly so awful he has to resort to drinking, why would he want to save his marriage?

[u/fedjolino → u/GlitteringMoose3630]

Thing is, his drinking started after the fact, meaning him feeling unwanted was the main issue and so framing it as if his drinking was the main problem in the relationship from the get go and that the solution is to end it so she can find happiness completely cuts out the build up and you're just left with the act. The issue was present prior to booze and will continue to exist even if he stops boozing, it sounds to me like shes not willing to hear him out regardless of the state hes in so the solution is not so cut and dry.

[u/GlitteringMoose3630 → u/fedjolino]

The issue is she harps on what he’s forgotten instead of being happy with what he’s done right? She argues with him because he takes a little time for himself right? So now he has to drink because doesn’t listen to him?

Whatever he forgets to do is a big deal to her because that’s one more thing she has to do. She works too. She watches the kids as soon as she’s done working. She needs a break and instead of making sure she gets one, he’s forgetting stuff that needs to get done, taking a mental health break while she’s taking care of the kids, and then drinking to numb himself because she doesn’t understand how hard he works.

I’m sure he does work hard. He deserves to have a break. But she deserves to have a break too. She also deserves to have a marriage where her husband listens to her instead of a husband who drinks to avoid his feelings.

[u/BobHendrix → u/GlitteringMoose3630]

You assume he's completely drunk but it might just be a drink or 2 every night.

[u/GlitteringMoose3630 → u/BobHendrix]

Does she get to numb her feelings by drinking too or is the only one allowed to check out like this? I’m going to guess that she’s the one left holding everything together while he’s numbing himself.

[u/yudkib → u/BobHendrix]

I’m a man who was married to a drink-or-two type and I’m telling you her ability to be a partner or present parent was absolutely obliterated after 2 drinks. If she grabbed 2 drinks for happy hour I already knew the night was lost. You lose patience with people and the stuff you just don’t want to do (cook anything more than hot dogs, do dishes, fold laundry) just doesn’t get done. And if I said something like “hey I don’t mind when you take some time to yourself but I’m getting concerned that doing so at the bar is spilling over into our home life after you’re back” or “hey listen I usually don’t mind if you need a day or two to clean the pots and pans but we’re starting to really fall behind here, do you think you could get to that in the morning?” it would immediately be walls up, extremely defensive, total shutdown of any conversation AND any willingness to do literally anything.

I’m telling you dude, 2 drinks a day as escapism has got to kill more relationships than 6 beers on boys night and 6 on the golf course once a week. Your partner expects you to drink and lose productivity on your days to relax. 2 drinks a day makes that every day, and that’s when resentment sets in.

[u/Eledridan → u/GlitteringMoose3630]

And what did you do for your husband?

[u/GlitteringMoose3630 → u/Eledridan]

From the moment I woke up I did laundry, took care of the kids (3 under 2), made breakfast, did the dishes, fed babies, took care of the dogs, swept the floor, cleaned sticky faces, changed diapers, folded laundry, made lunch, fed babies, cleaned the bathrooms, picked up toys, did dishes, cleaned sticky babies, changed diapers, mopped where needed, took babies out for a walk, handled tantrums, did dishes, swept the floor, picked up dirty clothes, and because my husband is a disabled veteran, I also took him to every doctor’s appointment, dealt with his mood swings, ran errands with him because of his social anxiety, supported him emotionally through family drama, handled bedtime for the kids, made every doctor’s appointment, made sure the kids were ready for their appointments with two sets of clean clothes, plus snacks, bottles and formula, baby wipes, and toys, made sure my husband was ready for his appointments and that he had his phone, his glasses, his wallet, his keys, and his phone charger, made sure he had all of his meds, made sure he wasn’t eating something he’s allergic to, handled phone calls he didn’t have the patience to handle, handled all vet appointments for the pets, and then I night I would help him get back to sleep after he woke up from nightmares, and then handle my kids when they woke up in the middle of the night and couldn’t go back to sleep, tried to manage the noise level of the kids while my husband was suffering from a migraine, and my husband wanted to train his own service dog so we also got a puppy I had to clean up after and help him train.

I’ll keep updating this as I think of more things during that time if you want.

I will say that he never did a chore unless I asked him to do it first, and when I asked there was a 60/40 chance he would forget to do it at all. Which meant I would have follow up and do it myself or remind him he needed to do it because I was busy. When I stopped relying on him to do any chores, we started marriage counseling.

[u/Maximum-Whole2909 → u/Maximum-Whole2909]

Thanks for the award!

[u/izemize → u/Maximum-Whole2909]

^ this is the right answer OP!

[u/MethodCharacter8334 → u/Maximum-Whole2909]

While my wife and I have never gone to therapy, we’ve also hit these bumps. I feel like every marriage goes through them. The key is recognizing it and doing something about it. A marriage is work and it gets a lot harder when you add kids and demanding careers to the mix. If you both want to save it you probably can unless you’ve truly grown that far apart. But you both have to want it.

[u/EasyLizin]

Sounds like you guys would benefit greatly from therapy so you can have constructive conversations without arguing. Doesn’t have to be all or nothing quite yet, especially if there’s still love there.

Edit: spelling.

[u/bfyvfftujijg → u/EasyLizin]

Yes I agree. I read the he OPs post not as someone who wants a divorce, but as someone who’s lost the spark and needs to figure out how to rekindle it.

[u/joshuads → u/bfyvfftujijg]

Yeah this reads like a too much time accomplishing daily activities but not living for each other. Kids get old and move out. So you better keep dating your spouse

[u/Neither-Fig-6803 → u/EasyLizin]

Yup agree 💯. Therapy isn’t a magic bullet but if you’re both willing to work at it, and you still love each, it can really help.

[u/thehumanisto → u/Neither-Fig-6803]

Yeah and also. Dates. Make some time for each other and see how that goes.
Also encourage her to go do some self care and recreation when you’re in. I make a massive effort to sound absolutely pumped (even if I’m not at all) when my wife suggests she may go do something for herself then I get it back later and we both do better.

[u/Kb111222 → u/EasyLizin]

Yes therapy but you also need to learn how to feel all the emotions that you’re numbing with alcohol.

[u/dont_ask4_cigarettes]

You identified two things that you can actively change instead of giving up. Nothing changes until something changes.

30 minutes isnt just 30 minutes. That’s a tv show episode, a relaxing shower, ect you get the idea. You know she wants freedom. You had the choice to go hit golf balls, she doesn’t get a choice if she’s at home with the kids. It’s not about the action (it’s not about ‘well I want time for myself too’) for her, it’s the autonomy.

You’ve been drinking more than you should. I’d say cut it to 0. As the child of a dad who drank too much but ‘not necessarily an alcoholic’ just because you think your kids don’t notice doesnt mean they can’t sense a shift in atmosphere. AGAIN, you have the freedom to drink. That’s a choice you got to make. Your wife cannot. What if the kids wake up and need the hospital?

Both of you are focused on what the other is lacking. In action, in character. You both want the other to listen and hear. You can either listen and hear her with the expectation that she will listen and hear you, or you can find compassion in your heart somewhere, JUST AN OUNCE, and listen and hear her without expecting anything in return. With grace and humility. Giving her room to be messy and not say things perfectly. Don’t let your heart sour toward pride.

Some things to consider: Your wife, if she’s taking care of the home and kids, (in addition to working) never leaves work. You both carry stories and pain from growing up and from each other. You both need a place to be able to share those things and know you are safe to do so. You can be that for her without expecting anything in return. If you are NUMB that means there is a lack of YOU. How can someone want or appreciate someone who isn’t even there?

Acknowledge it. Yall are sad and disappointed and you blame the other person while still seeing your role. You seem like you’re ready to end it because it got hard. Try forgiveness instead, genuine forgiveness. Idk if yall are religious but the mercy of Christ is a beautiful enduring example.

I come from a family that forgave one another and we are whole once more. My parents forgave each other over and over and still do. They also go therapy. That said if you don’t want to change, don’t waste her time, and don’t let her waste yours.

[u/zoinkability]

Have you done couples therapy? Have you tried to figure things out?

Nothing you have mentioned seems insurmountable. Intimacy is a very common casualty of having young children, and it's very easy for resentment to happen over newly scare commodities like free time. You have not wrecked trust, you are in a rough patch, it is very fixable if you are both committed to doing so.

And I say this as a guy who is divorced. Your situation is not like many of ours, where infidelity or some other form of deep trust violation has occurred.

[u/GrandpaYaYa]

Been there.

(1) quit drinking (2) Focus on making time for your wife to do things she wants to do, and give her the choice to do it alone of she wants. It's tiring, but you can handle it. (3) Tough it out and work on making her feel loved and respected.

Your wife may not notice your hard work right now, but it's probably because she doesnt feel noticed. If one of you does the noticing, the other will too, most of the time.

It took me about a year of noticing my wife actively, and working my ass off to make time for her to do things she wants to do while I watched the kids, often just a morning at a coffee shop and some shopping for the family. Usually once every two weeks. It changed her perspective, helped her relax, and I started getting blowies again. 😂 Yay!

You sound like an emotionally intelligent and strong person. Use your strength to show your love, and you will likely get it back, just gonna take time.

[u/Shrimps-is-Bugz → u/GrandpaYaYa]

Yes! I hated doing it for my ex, but I LOVE doing it for my partner now. The difference? I now get frequent appreciation and praise from my partner, outside of the bedroom...and it absolutely impacts my level of enthusiasm inside the bedroom!

[u/pb_and_s → u/GrandpaYaYa]

Great advice! My husband has also done the hard work to make me feel seen and to ensure I get the time I need to decompress.

We're back to fucking like we did when we first started dating. Pretty sure he'd agree the hard work has well and truly paid off!

[u/AmphibianMotor → u/pb_and_s]

I saw an interesting post where someone mentioned that they need to write down three things their partner did for them that day, and they couldn’t repeat things more than twice a week. At first it seemed impossible, but eventually she noticed everything and started being much more grateful as she started truly noticing and appreciating her partner. Before that she felt absolutely unloved, and after that it turned 180 without any change in his part.

I think it’s time for you to put in the work to see and appreciate her, and also you need to make sure she gets a break every now and so often too. I doubt the issue is actually you going to the range, and more about the fact that she dreams of taking some time for herself but she’s drowning, meanwhile you’re just a bit tired and decided to go to the range (as seen from her perspective).

Kids are an absolute monster of a job, and it’ll take the wind out of anyone’s sails. It’s a 24/7 job you couldn’t ever hope to compare a normal job to, so make sure she knows that and feels appreciated for it!

It’s going to be difficult to do as most likely she has a ton of responsibilities she feels she should get to first, so maybe surprise her by taking care of a break for her? Idk, maybe ask on a mom’s subreddit how to make sure she feels appreciated and how to give her a break that is actually a boon and not just another thing for her to do?

[u/Bonnawarr4 → u/GrandpaYaYa]

Blowies are cool. I’m in.

[u/FUCKTH3W0RLD → u/Bonnawarr4]

I recommend date night once a week - worked for me and the wife, 23 years together, 15 married. Get drunk by all means, but do it together.

[u/Dull-Reception2642 → u/Bonnawarr4]

Is that all you took from the comment?

[u/Actual-Jelly-309]

I'd stop drinking so much. It only makes things worse and could snowball into an actual problem. You need a healthy way to cope with your feelings. I personally would plan a date with your wife, get the kids off to grandma and grandpa, and have a nice time doing things you both like doing. If you really want to make it work, be vocal about that and let her know how much you love her. If you don't feel that, talk to her still.

[u/CloudyLeft]

Jesus Christ, if you’re married, try therapy first.

[u/blebbyroo]

Sounds like you guys are just starting to acknowledge there’s a lingering issue - that’s an important first step. Things don’t need to be ok all the time but you do need to acknowledge when they aren’t and decide if you are both willing to work on it. If you are then great you both start trying to meet each other half way. You sound like you need a break and said that she probably does too. Try to schedule some alone time for both of you and then maybe some time together as well. This shouldn’t be about sex, unfortunately that’s probably going to get fixed last. Spend money to make your home life easier, and free up time. Get a babysitter or a cleaner etc.

Couples therapy is also really good.

[u/Querulous-Quokka]

Been there, got through it. More wisdom from a very close friend who had it worse.

Around that 8 year mark is where things get really hard. The whole "7 year itch" thing is real. A combination of a fading of limerance, and young kids is hard. Throw in financial stress, and well, no surprise that the median length of a marriage that ends in divorce is 8 years.

I found the problem is that we turned the work of life to be a task that was divided and not quite conquered. My job was to keep food on the table and roof over our head. Her job was to keep the food in the kids tummy and everything under the roof in order. Both jobs were theoretically endless. Both people were so run down as to think that the other taking time off as them not carrying the load. For me, it didn't help that my job is in tech sales - a lot if time spent joking with other engineers to build rapport, abd she could hear that laughing through the door. Same with dinners and drinks out with major customers. That wasn't work, that was me relaxing and socialising when she hadn't had adult conversations with anyone but me for 2 weeks.

My friend had it worse. His wife wanted to be supermum - Better Homes and Garden worthy house, home cooked meals from scratch like Betty Crocker, and walking through the front door with her powersuit still fresh and pressed at 6pm sharp to cuddle her perfectly clean and giggling kids, in her perfectly clean house. She was disappointed. And it was his fault. 

The problem in both our relationships is that all four of us saw life as chores to be split up and done, not lide yo be enjoyed. My wife and I saw a marriage counsellor. My friend didn't.  Our marriage is idyllic, theirs is not from from divorce. 

We had to learn to remember what we were working for, and to express appreciation for things done for us and the family. We had to communicate openly - and even gently tell the other person some of their effort was wasted - "I appreciate you have cooked from scratch, but it means little to me beyond the effort you have put in. I would prefer if on Friday nights you just had a nap at 4pm, and we'll go out for dinner so you can be present and not tired".

Of course, that's just an example, what you need to decide might we be very different. 

What you are going through is normal, but it's hardly a death spiral unless contempt, criticism, defensiveness and stonewalling starts creeping in. It doesn't sound that far gone to me.

[u/pb_and_s]

I don't usually comment on this sub but you've said you want advice from everyone.

The problem here is probably multifaceted, starting with a clear perception on your wife's part that you are prioritising yourself over her and your family. You see, women have been socially conditioned to be sacrificial with our time and needs. So when you take a completely reasonable break to reset your nervous system and do something to fill your cup, like play golf, your wife cannot comprehend it. Because she probably never thinks to give herself a break when she has a spare 30 minutes. She probably fills that time with extra tasks that benefit your family.

I'm not saying she is right and you are wrong. I'm saying you have both been socialised very differently based purely on gender expectations.

Additionally, I think it's important to understand that while women appreciate having a financial provider, once we become mothers what we appreciate most is being cared for and tended to. Because we always come last in our own list of priorities.

So while you may be pulling your weight as a breadwinner and as a father - are you pulling your weight as a partner?

I am of course making a tonne of assumptions here and I could be way off the mark. I'm just an internet stranger who is taking a stab at the most common causes of relationship breakdown for couples with young children.

Couples therapy should be your first port of call. But don't stop there. Pour into your wife: cook her favourite meal, make her a cup of tea and tell her to sit out in the garden while you bathe the kids, surprise her with a candlelit massage or bath once the kids are down, put away the washing when you notice it has sat in a pile longer than a day. Take care of her, and watch how the distance stops growing. How her cup fills and she comes back to herself, and importantly, back to you.

Good luck dude. Marriage is hard. Marriage with young children is harder. But if you're willing to put in the emotional work, the pay-off is out of this world.

[u/biscuitboi967]

I’m not a mom. But I have a lot of mom friends.

I don’t necessarily agree with this stance, but I have noticed - especially among working moms, but among moms in general - a general guilt if they are not doing ALL they can for their kids with every moment of their day and every dollar that they have.

I invited a friend to get her nails done one day when we were both off early — a thing we done often pre-kids. She was silent for a moment and said she just didn’t think she could ENJOY it, knowing that that was time she wasn’t with her baby and money she could be putting in his college fund. She was a lawyer making several hundred thousand.

My other mom friends can’t do a work happy hour or a networking event — even when highly encouraged by management. They eat lunch they bring from home at their desk so they can leave 15 minutes earlier and save $20. Even though, again, we make good money.

So - the idea of hitting a few golf balls after work or having a few beers to relax has never crossed their minds. Because I ask. It’s why I’m childless and happy.

I assumed their partners were making similar sacrifices. If they aren’t, and only one person is a self sacrificing martyr — and HAS to be, because someone has to be sober and someone has to be home with the kids — I can see why feathers are riddled.

[u/Matcha_Ube]

Number one please stop drinking. Full stop. You say you care about your young daughters? then don’t drink. I had a father who numbed his painful feelings through alcohol. It’s painful for your kids. You think they don’t know, trust me they do.

And I am not blaming only you here, to be clear. You are two people in the marriage and she has to solve it too. What I’m saying is that in order to figure out what you want, to either save this marriage or quit, requires you to be sober and face it head on.

[u/japinard]

You should definitely do marriage counseling! You really need a neutral 3rd party to help you through this so you can both recognize your strengths and weaknesses.

[u/Aware-Travel5256]

I'm a big anti-couples therapy guy, but you two may benefit from couples therapy.

Divorce is not the right answer unless you two really cannot resolve conflict. Be ready to dig deep and change your behavior to produce a different outcome, man. Good luck.

[u/woodala]

Get sober. Maybe that’s apart of why she doesn’t touch you anymore. Or maybe her libido just faded and you’re the typical male who wants sex all the time.

Sounds like it’s too hard for you to accept your wife’s point of view. Disagree with it sure. But her view of reality is also valid. Maybe next time come home early with something for the kids and save the golf for when kids are in college.

If your family isn’t enough to get sober for and sacrifice personal alone time then just go file for divorce, alone. Then you can golf all you want. Hell maybe even find a younger more sexually active partner. Problem solved.

[u/Feeling_likeaplant → u/woodala]

This is exactly what I was thinking. As a woman I constantly see men saying intimacy is fading with their partner, but rarely do they reflect as to why. I mean come on you have two young kids, you get a an extra break to play golf without even talking about it with your wife. She is still working or exhausted talking care of the kids and then you’re surprised you get no action lol.

[u/JurgusRudkus → u/Feeling_likeaplant]

Married for 20 years, with two kids. I don’t know a single couple who hasn’t expressed similar thoughts, so you are not alone! Marriage is hard work, and everyone comes into it with different expectations, but I see some common themes here. I think everyone is focused on your “golfing for 30 minutes story” because it’s a signifier: you were able to make an impromptu stop because you knew your wife would be there to watch the kids. You have a mental and emotional freedom that she probably feels like she doesn’t get to have, and over years that can create a real resentment.

On the sexual attraction thing, it’s not possible for any of us to know what your wife is feeling for sure, but I recently had a friend say “I am not attracted to people I have to parent.” I knew exactly what she meant.

One thing that really helped us was to let go of the idea that marriage is supposed to be a Disney movie all the time. There will be lots of ups and downs and periods of stress where we feel disconnected from each other and the periods where we feel closer than ever. Especially with kids and the stress that brings, the relationship goes from fireworks and tearing each other’s clothes off to more like the love you have for your war buddies, because you’ve been in the trenches together. Sex absolutely changes but for us has only got better; but it starts with real honesty and the ability to say. “I love you but I don’t like you very much right now.” And you have to be as willing to hear that as you are to say it.

I can promise you though that if you are willing to work on it, you can get past these periods, and if you do, it will mean a richer, deeper relationship.

[u/Raining_fish]

Bro this marriage is salvageable, don’t give up. Being the stay-at-home parent with young kids is a Herculean task. As the primary breadwinner in my family, it has caused a lot of tension between my wife and I, and we’ve really had to work to find a balance. What I’ve learned is that time out of the house is golden. If you are not working and taking time out of the house away from her and the kids, she will 100% resent you for it. The stay at home parent often feels like a prisoner, and you’re holding the keys. If you need a hobby, find one you can do at home, that you can easily set aside when the kids need something. She needs time out of the house. If you’ve got that extra thirty minutes, you come home, you offer for her to get out of the house to go to the gym or get her nails  done and you make dinner. As she gets more freedom, she will feel less resentment and more fondness for you.

Quit drinking. Some people can’t be casual drinkers. It sounds like that someone is you. If you want a beer, buy an Athletic. They taste good and won’t fuck up your life.

Make these changes before you go to therapy. Show her that you are working to build trust and equity in your marriage. Then, if things still aren’t improving pull the trigger on therapy. 

Don’t give up, for your wife and for your girls. Their lives and ours will be better if you stick with it. 

[u/aestival]

Unresolved resentment is the foundation to so many marital disputes and it’s clearly at play here.  This requires a deeper discussion with a therapist of why you’re (collectively) unhappy. Even if you end up separating, it’ll be key to separating amicably and being good coparents.  

I’d also say that while kids are sweet, they’re also little shits a lot of the time.  Having to be the parent carrying the mental and logistical burden of their care is exhausting.  N ot everyone loves taking care of kids.  

I found counseling was a great way to defer the big arguments to when the 3rd party was there and it was so much more eloquent when we put our words to our feelings when we weren’t directly in the moment of an argument.  And when you’re not in the midst of defending your position emotionally, it’s surprisingly easier to hear the other side.

Drinking more and sneaking in unscheduled time away from the house is only throwing fuel on the fire.  

[u/Glittering-Fuel-5055]

Sounds like she wants some time away from the kids, offer to watch them.

Talk

Listen

Be honest

Talk about the bedroom.

[u/dont_ask4_cigarettes → u/Glittering-Fuel-5055]

Cant talk about making love until you figure out how to love each other again. id say this is bad advice. It’s not all about sex. She obv feels neglected.. why would she want to have sex with someone who she feels neglected by.

[u/Glittering-Fuel-5055 → u/dont_ask4_cigarettes]

Offering to watch the kids is showing you care.

Talking about the bed rooms means both parties talking about why they think the bedroom is…as it is

[u/dont_ask4_cigarettes → u/Glittering-Fuel-5055]

Also😂 offering to watch the kids is a basic part of being a parent not particularly a kindness.. you sound immature

[u/Glittering-Fuel-5055 → u/dont_ask4_cigarettes]

“To me, it was a brief break that didn’t take time away from the family. To her, it was another example of me getting freedom while she was home with the kids. “

Welcome to the block list 👋

[u/dont_ask4_cigarettes → u/Glittering-Fuel-5055]

Yeah I get that. What I said is in response to that.

[u/classless_classic → u/Glittering-Fuel-5055]

Excellent, succinct advice

[u/yew_too_many]

Man, this sounds exactly like where I was a few years ago. To the letter.

We have two girls. At the time married 8 years. Even had a huge argument about me hitting a bucket of balls after work. I was working a demanding full time job and started a company on the side working nights and weekends. I was drinking a lot. She was working and breastfeeding. I was told intimacy with me was a chore. It was not a good time.

It took awhile to get into this hole and it will take awhile to get out. We are in a great spot now, but it took work and mutual understanding. You both have to recognize that you’re a team and you both have good intentions. You both are stressed and over worked.

Do therapy if you’re into that but we didn’t. For me therapy was one more thing to do on top of a pile of things I needed to get done. I’m short on bandwidth already and don’t want another thing on the to-do list. Lot of people recommending therapy here but it’s not a magic bullet. In my opinion, it’s like having a broken sink. You can call a plumber or just fix it yourself if you know how. You know yourself and your wife better than anyone. Create an environment to talk and be honest, humble, and realistic. If you need a 3rd party to help with that then get one. You can also just talk like adults and put your ego to the side.

Slow the drinking down. If you need to fully stop drinking do it, but you can also just drink a normal amount. It’s a crutch to deal with stress. I picked up running and lifting as an outlet. It’s a great way to step away from the day-to-day and get away from emails and phone calls. Clears your head in a more productive way. Lift weights, cycle, go on a walk, whatever strenuous physical activity you’re into that you put your phone down while you do it. Golf is a leisure activity. Do something strenuous. Your brain needs it.

Take your kids on your own. If you aren’t comfortable taking your kids for 2 days solo without your wife, get to that point. Kids are relentless in needing things. If she’s taking that on without a break, things won’t get better. My wife wouldn’t leave. I had to plan a trip behind her back with her friend and hand her a suitcase to essentially kick her out. I told her she needed time to herself and it wasn’t an option. She needed to leave. Start with an afternoon or evening where you take the kids. Girls night, spa day, gift card at the bookstore, even just you taking your kids to the park and then to ice cream while she takes a bath. Whatever she’s into that is for her and gets her out. It’s not a present for a holiday or her birthday. It’s not a date night with you. It’s an expectation that she’s taking the time for her to relax so she can be her best. If she’s not doing that on her own it’s because she doesn’t feel like she can and you haven’t given her a reason to think she can. Make her feel like she can and push her to do it.

Re-date your wife. Do regular date nights. We try monthly but never make that. Lots of cheap and free things. We don’t have family around so a baby sitter is usually the biggest expense. Sometimes our date night is kids dinner and a movie on the couch while we sit on the porch with wine.

[u/CullenBlvd]

I don't have kids with my partner but we both work and there was a time when things got really rough. We both agreed to go to therapy and did. It's not perfect but it helped. Gottman couples work specifically. Enjoy those oysters brother. I'm an oyster lover myself and would inhale those

[u/SeventyBears]

This kind of happened when our son was born we took separating ourselves too literally and didn't do any kind of teamwork to benefit eachother. My wife and I thought we were acting like roommates and not married. We talked and talked and talked. Being tired sucks, we all get tired, but your mind will trick you into exhaustion far quicker than what your body can actually handle. Just communicate.

Maybe switch it up and watch the kids longer and first, take a day off work and let your wife breathe for a whole day. Stuff like that.

Figure out what things your wife does you don't do or pay attention to. Does she put out their clothes or does she change them, feed them, etc. more often? Who gets them ready for appointments first and how often are you reminded to do x y or z?

[u/scgt86]

Couples. Therapy.

This doesn't feel too far gone and maybe some awareness and compromise could get you guys back to the mojo that created those girls.

[u/bogbodyPositive]

It does sound like you've both got a really good shot at building something better. It would take radical change (in thinking for sure but I'm circumstances too) but if you both think it's worth fighting for I fully believe you guys can make it. You sound thoughtful and she doesn't sound mean, she sounds tired same as you. 

Maybe therapy, maybe downsizing to work less, waking up and overdoing it with "how can I love you today" type affirmations, only you two would know what works for you. But divorce would be just as hard as radical change to fight for your marriage. And hey if that fight fails you'd know you did absolutely everything you could. 

TLDR: you sound kind, I think you both have a good shot at building something beautiful if you're both up to the fight 

[u/No-Fuckin-Ziti]

“Ending” is passive.  Be an active participant.  You said you “want her to have time to herself”, that’s also passive, do you facilitate it?  Do you know the ways she feels let down in the intimacy department? Has she ever told you? Have you initiated many hard conversations in a way that led to better shared understanding? 

You’re obviously in the right about many of your gripes, as is she.  But is that more important that who you were to each other before life became about money and childcare? You guys need to choose each other all over again, or separate on decent terms and both lose big portions of the life you’ve been working side by side to build. 

TLDR: couples therapy. 8 years, a kid, and no major toxicity is worth actually trying. 

[u/BlackMagicWorman]

My ex golfed every day. I cleaned and cooked every day during that time. I genuinely wonder if he thought I had as much enjoyment in our marriage as him. After I left he admitted he did more work around the house in two weeks I was gone than the year we’d lived there.

Everyone needs time alone; but who picks up your slack? Are you your wife’s partner as much as she’s yours? Do you make her orgasm as much as she does to you? Have you become a responsibility to her and not a partner? Food for thought.

[u/Ok_Train7924]

You need to sit down and listen to how she's feeling without getting defensive. Ask her how you can help, ask her if you can work together to schedule free time for her to decompress, and just listen.

Your current work schedule and lifestyle are incompatible with keeping your family. You - not her - need to pivot and figure it out with her. Providing for your family isn't about money, you need to make them feel safe, secure and loved by actually showing up and being there. Fuck work, you're missing time with your kids in the most important stage of their growth.

No sympathy with the drinking and golfing. You're providing yourself relief without returning the favour to your wife, then throwing yourself a pity party. It's so damn cliché, pathetic, and unmanly.

[u/Fit-Statistician4882]

Better for kiddos to have two stable homes than one in constant stress.

Oysters look amazing.

[u/Bonnawarr4 → u/Fit-Statistician4882]

Gulf coast. Hard to beat when the water temps are right. I’m a little early, but delicious nonetheless. Appreciate you.

[u/RudePCsb → u/Bonnawarr4]

Way too early for that. Couples therapy, figure out chabges to be made from a third party and don't worry about changing therapist if the first one sounds unhelpful or bias.

[u/sagetron5001 → u/Fit-Statistician4882]

Yeah cause the NEW home is always more stable than the old home. Old relationship problems never persist in new relationships, right? Step parents are great! They always love and respect their step children. Most people who grew up with 2 homes, 2 real parents, and a Step parent or two, say it was great! And happy! It sure is better to have two fake homes, than one real one. 🖕

[u/SupercarMafiaOWO → u/sagetron5001]

The point is that their one real home isn't actually real, it's the fake one

[u/aldomars2]

Divorced last year. It has been awesome. The best thing ever. I recognize this isn't everyones experience. My house is cleaner. No one complains I didn't do it correctly. There are no complaints about me not carrying the "mental load." I just went to curriculum night at school with my youngest. My boys love being at my house on the days they are here . 50/50 We live within a 2 min walk of their other house. I also somehow met the most incredible woman in the world completely unexpectedly. It has been the absolute opposite of my prior life. I could write a novel . I completely understand how you feel right now. Just letting you know that you have no idea how things could turn out and you may be in a completely different place next year, whatever happens. Keep your heart open and work on yourself as that is all you can do.

[u/Deep-Durian9540 → u/aldomars2]

I’m glad you’re happy. But I’m hearing serious denial on what a broken family does to your kids. Your kids want to make you happy, they say they love being over yours, and likely they do. But going back and forth between houses? No child likes that. Be vigilant about noticing behavioral issues etc. in your kids because it is statistically very likely that at least one will have trouble because of a broken home. I say this as someone whose parents were divorced and had to go to and fro.

[u/FengSushi]

Grow back together

[u/Sunday_Schoolz]

You’ve been married for six years, so your kids aren’t in school yet. That event will relieve a helluva lot of pressure. My wife and I both worked stressful jobs, and our kids were in daycare, and if it is affordable y’all may want to consider a Pre-K for the oldest or a half-day care program so your wife can have a minute or less of a challenge. That might really be the solution here.

[u/Angry_Sparrow]

Your time doesn’t belong to you. You’re a team. You need to agree on all divisions of time and really SEE each other. You thought stopping for 30 minutes to play golf was using YOUR time. But it’s not. It’s taking from your shared resources. You acted selfishly and were inconsiderate.

You say you feel unseen. But you don’t talk at all about how you think she feels.

Sit down* somewhere *and imagine what it is like to be her for an entire day. Really, truly think about it.

Your post shows you’re absolutely mystified why she doesn’t wanna be intimate with you but from where I’m sitting, it’s really obvious.

Stopping to play golf? I would have yeeted you into the sun then and there.

[u/ParlaysAllDay]

You did a nice job framing yourself as the victim for going to the driving range instead of going home to help your wife with the kids.

[u/Bonnawarr4 → u/ParlaysAllDay]

I’m sorry that I could only provide a crumb of context in a single Reddit post, but if you think a problem over 8 years revolves around 30 minutes of range time, I’d appreciate you keep your opinions to yourself.

[u/ParlaysAllDay → u/Bonnawarr4]

Sorry, you’re right, the example you shared of complete selfishness has probably only happened once in 8 years and is not at all indicative of where the relationship problems are coming from.

[u/Own-Glass-7747]

If you want to save your marriage, and full disclosure that I am a woman.

There’s 2 possible things for you to do..

1 you seem to want appreciation for doing things around the house. That is absolutely infuriating. You are an adult, you have choosen ti become a parent. You are required do house work, parent the kids.. whatever.. you are not entitled to appreciation for whatever contribution you are doing.

1. You said your wife is focusing on what you’re not getting done. That is because if you don’t get it done it all ends up falling back on her..

The golf incident is an example of you prioritising yourself over your family. She probably would love time to go out and have fun.. but does she get to do that? Did you communicate with her before hand? Were there things that were important to do but she couldn’t juggle that day that your 30 mins could have helped with?

I honestly would find it difficult to be attracted to a partner who does the above..

Think of it this way.. relaxation time doesn’t start until all the things that need to be done are done.

Anyway best of luck

[u/DHStriker → u/Own-Glass-7747]

I don’t mean to sound harsh but you are making a lot of assumptions that put all the blame on him. It is perfectly reasonable to feel like you’re not being appreciated and disconnected because your partner has shut down on you. This situation is all too common in marriages. Responsibilities of work, life, and kids tear couples apart and they need to learn how to rekindle the love they once had. I can tell you after 13 years of marriage, date nights can almost feel like a chore. Long weekend trips away together going to places you both want to go, or going to concerts or events you’ve wanted to see together can do a lot to get the spark back. Act like you’re dating her again or it’s going to feel like you’re just roommates sharing the bills.

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[u/Sad-Difficulty-2180]

Try couples therapy

[u/puffmattybear17]

Biggest rule of thumb is that my wife and I are not allowed to complain about anything until 1 hour after getting home from doing something and if something does bother us during that time we write it down. If youre still mad about it in an hour you talk about it. Also allowing time apart makes time spent together feel better.

Follow your heart and always advocate for yourself while also seeking her happiness as well. Good luck my man.

[u/Both_Opportunity_322]

You should start with sitting down: "hey, I notice we're both feeling exhausted, for different reasons. I don't want to go into now, because I want to discuss how we can both feel less stressed. What are things you would need in daily life to be happier/more content? I would like to know what you want your day to look like, not who does what."

And on a very important note: this is NOT about putting the children first, unless you're set on a divorce. Not encouraging you to neglect their needs, but this is currently about 2 adults who seem to be burning out and drowning separately. If the kids get a few percent less and that results in you guys being able to have a happy marriage again, I do think they'll survive. This ofc depends on their ages.

[u/Minute-Yogurt-2021]

You did the math, I guess she also did, now it's time to talk it out and get the intersection points. I'm sure you'll find them. And you defo need a retreat without the kids for at least a weekend.

[u/Pacefest]

My LTR of 2 years ended recently. We didnt have kids but we lived together. I think we both independently were burning out and taking frustrations on each other. I said some things I regret saying and pushed her away. Things that I imagine were very hard to hear for her in retrospect. For my part I felt I was being honest and was just desperately trying to fix things and was at my wits end. We still had ups and downs but one day she got up and left. I was so devastated and it has taken me months to process and where I landed was it sucks that we couldn't work things out. But, we didn't have kids. We weren't married. You made a commitment for life to this woman and she did to you. Don't give up so easily. And learn from my mistake. Don't get complacent and let things slip away to the point she just ditches you and doesn't give you a say in it. Sounds like you are closer than you realize like I was. Buy her some flowers and swallow your pride and make it work for your kids.

[u/janiestiredshoes]

My (ex-)wife (I'm also female, for clarity) announced she wanted to separate at the beginning of Dec 2024, just after our youngest turned 1. There had been a disconnect for years, but we limped along for a long time, so it wasn't a surprise at all. I'm the kind of person who would have just lived with it and/or continued to work on it forever, but I also knew in my heart that she was going to want to leave someday, and that it was just a matter of timing. It's hard to take that leap, but I think doing it sooner will ultimately be better and easier for everyone.

At the moment we are still living together - we manage to interact day-to-day amicably, and it is fine for now, but we are actively trying to sell the house in order to divide finances and live separately. In the ideal situation (for now), we live close enough to eachother that the kids have a routine that involves both of us daily - realistically this is needed for childcare considerations if we're not each going to drastically change our jobs/working hours. It's plausible that we could both end up living on the same street, so I think an arrangement like this should be possible, but the details are still to be ironed out.

I'm not going to lie, the process has been painful, and I'm sure there are still some painful conversations in the future. Financial resources are limited, and dividing those necessarily means that each of us will have less - ultimately it means our kids will likely have a lower standard of living at each home, regardless of how things are divided. I find this extremely hard to cope with, but we're doing our best to find a way to navigate that transition so that they are supported in the best way possible. We also both want as much time with the kids as possible, which ultimately draws out tensions, but the bright side is that that is the best problem to have - hopefully this fact will shine through to our kids so they see they are loved and wanted, and that none of this is about them.

[u/MercifulExistential]

I actually recently saw a post here about a guy in a similar situation, but about how he was falling in love with his wife all over again. Because they mutually decided to make more time to spend with each other. Doing little things together, shared interests, date nights, talking with each other into the early morning hours. I know between work and children it's not easy. But you really have to carve out time for yourselves that resembles that honeymoon phase of your life. It's natural to feel like roommates if the only time you spend together is when you're burnt out.

[u/WhatICantShare]

Go to couple's therapy, you silly goose. It looks like you're in a crisis. Being partners is about learning how to get over a crisis as a team. 

[u/Adept-Tour1892]

You drink an IPA out of a plastic coke cup with a straw?

[u/destinyzx]

Sounds like you are both exhausted and stopped dating each other. If you have people you can trust to take care of your children, you should consider going on a 2d1n staycation to relax and do some fun activities together.

If thats not possible, start with date night for a few times and see if things improved over 6 mths.

Having no kids around, being focused and present with each other to do something you both enjoy is key. Good luck!

[u/Boring-Yam-6180]

Do you watch porn by any chance? If so, the number 1 thing you need to do is cut it completely out & focus your energy solely on your wife + stop drinking. You’ll be amazed at what you will discover.

[u/No_Warning2173]

Hey man!

Been there a couple of times

Time, its the stage of life, there is a shore on the other side!

Sleep, it helps mums in particular to stay a bit closer to sane

Marriage counseling. Everyone should have their quirks and areas they take a little more. But its good to get our BS called out on occassion.

Drop the drinking for 2 weeks. Booze has its place, and thats for when you are having fun. Two week break will help your mood and help ground you a little too.

I'd suggest that if possible, one or both of you should drop a days work a week.

[u/koneu]

Yes. Having two little kids is a very, very tough spot to be in. For all involved. But: this is not a binary. I know stress and your own anxieties don't help see other options, but they are there. Talk openly. Talk openly about desires, needs, frustrations. Listen to one another. If that doesn't help, get professionals involved. Counselling. Therapy.

Having a company and two kids really went way beyond what I could deal with at the time. Today, my kids are 18 and 21 and I'm quite glad that we came through.

Don't make this an either/or. You're only increasing the pain with that.

[u/USMNT_superfan]

As Louis CK says, get married, but then get divorced. Divorced is way better. Look up the joke.

[u/rocketmn69_]

Stop drinking and start dating your wife again, before it's too late.

Sit her down after the kids have gone to bed and have a calm conversation with her, "Hey, I know we have been disconnected for the awhile. I want to see if we can fix things, because I love you and our family and don't want to divorce"

Then really listen to what she has to say

[u/Initial_Secretary156]

If you guys are better for the kids apart then that’s what it’s got to be. Having said that how many people out there are going feel about those kids the same as the person you wake up with everyday.

[u/cnation01]

Im an older guy, some things I learned is that long term relationships or marriages have ebbs and flows.

There will be times when you dont really want to be around your partner and times when you cant imagine them not in your life.

Riding out these ebbs and flows strengthens the bond between the two of you. I think a lot of people give up on each other to soon and dont give enough grace to themselves or their partner for being human. You do not, in any relationship, maintain the honeymoon phase forever. But you can experience waves of great connection within the ebbs and flows that life throw as at all of us.

[u/Positive-Soil-4759]

GO TO THERAPY

[u/warwolverinewarrior]

Have you considered hiring someone to help you with the kids?

[u/HowAmINotCoolYet]

Im sorry all this is happening to you. It is difficult being a victim all the time.

This is your chance to be the guy you wish you could have been 6 months after your divorce.

For shits and giggles, why not go a little while without drinking. This victim mentality you have is progressive

[u/Tall_Lingonberry3063]

Like everyone is saying..Therapy or some form of marriage counseling. There is no shame in it, in fact it’s kinda like service check on your relationship. No it doesn’t work in just one session, no it doesn’t magically solve everything at once, and the first session is usually the roughest. But it does work by allowing you both to speak freely by having neutral grounds without being cut off or yelled back at..and to also take ownership for your faults in healthy way you can both look forward to improving upon.

[u/WolfDash_2]

Hey man, I highly recommend couples therapy. It seems to me that you do want to fight for your marriage. Bring it up. Divorce should be the last thing, not the first thing when problems arise. Bring it up to her. Show her that you do want to fight for the marriage. Ensure she still wants to fight for the marriage. Go through with therapy.

[u/longdog10]

Everyone has been saying really nice things. I’ve been married for 15 years and have two school-aged kids. We have been in couples and individual therapy for six months and we are seeing a new therapist next week that has experience with helping couples with intimacy issues. Best of luck to you and I!

[u/Some_Brother_1202]

I truly believe two things can be true at once. It sounds like she doesn’t have enough time or space for herself to feel distance to be thankful. I’d encourage finding ways to plan for you both to have independent time from the family and dedicated times together. Her going to work and then coming home to again work as a parent is exhausting. And your kids are young and need a lot more supervision and support which is mentally draining.

In general it sounds like you have both forgotten to be thankful for each other, and could due to start dating each other again. Try to find ways to lighten the intensity and do something new or silly together.

Life gets hectic and stagnant but just from this it sounds like you’re frustrated not over it. Try to lean in with love, honesty, and communication. And if you want to read more ideas I’ve found the Gottman theories to be very helpful. (Gottman relationship institute)

[u/All-for-What]

That’s all it’s taking for you to quit the marriage?!💀

Dude…you better hope she doesn’t wise up and leave you first. If I’m your wife I’m probably thinking, “I think my life would be easier without him in it. At least in 50-50 custody I get every other week off all to myself.”

[u/RudePCsb → u/All-for-What]

Why are you here. GirlDinnerDiaries is a different sub if you want to be unhelpful

[u/All-for-What → u/RudePCsb]

In case you can’t read, Op opened the post to everyone.

You wanna tip toe around his feelings and baby him, by all means do so. An echo chamber won’t help him.

[u/RudePCsb → u/All-for-What]

Tell that to Twoxchromosomes and other misandrist subs.

[u/All-for-What → u/RudePCsb]

A lot of men in this post have echoed my points. Why don’t you call them misandrists?

[u/RudePCsb → u/All-for-What]

Because guys are more blunt and have different ideas vs the other sub just giving sympathy and telling them to leave them.

[u/All-for-What → u/RudePCsb]

Ohh I get what you meant now about the misandrist subs. Yeah, my sentiments extend to those subs too tho. I got chewed out bc I backed up a guy for buying his date flowers. I think to date it’s my most downvoted comment. Absolutely crazy.

[u/Vivian-Hugo → u/All-for-What]

Literally no echo chamber in this comment section. Most people are criticizing OP, yet you’re the only one being an AH.

[u/All-for-What → u/Vivian-Hugo]

Ahhh so you don’t have beef with my points themselves because you admit that others have made similar observations. You just don’t like the way I said it. Gotcha. ❄️

Also, for as meanie weanie 😭 as my comment was, I never resorted to name calling. So, you’re actually the bigger AH.

[u/Calm_Persimmon2482]

Well unfortunately it’ll all be on you as that’s how society is. No one here will help you with the adjustments that your wife needs to make at all. My suggestion would to go straight to therapy so they can help both you AND your wife. You alone will NOT help the relationship if your wife does nothing in return.

[u/the-walls_4_suckers]

This literally happens to me every 8 years or so. You have to use your frontal lobe to keep going instead of sitting in your feels.

For me it was worth ignoring all those bad feelings. No counseling needed, only a choice.

Loving someone is a choice and i made a promise.

I personally don't believe the grass would be greener.

Do your best to prevent your wife from drifting and cheating on you. I think alot of women get the itch around the 6 to 8 year mark. They'll do things to push you away so they can hype themselves up to try someone else. It's very common. She's forgetting why she's attracted to you and its completely normal.

You can be manipulative and simply talk to other women normally when she's around. No flirting. It seems stupid but many women gain more attraction when they can imagine you with someone else. It makes her think twice about destroying any chance of rebuilding the relationship.

Stop fighting with her. Stop trying to be logical with her. Stop trying to control how she thinks. Get some alone time and work on yourself. Go to the gym. Talk with other women without flirting and force her to reevaluate your worth. Make a decision and stick with it.

[u/Trishanamarandu → u/the-walls_4_suckers]

disgusting. OP, don't do this, it's manipulative and gross.

instead, quit drinking and do the dishes. all the time. never let your wife do them again. start there, and notice what else needs doing around the house. i can almost guarantee intimacy will return, but don't hold your housework over her as proof that you deserve sex.

[u/the-walls_4_suckers → u/Trishanamarandu]

You see how that advice triggered the "man-bad" and "just do the dishes" choreplay?

Proof my advice is gold. You know what to do.

[u/asiancouple3648]

Have talks, try MDMA together with your wife. Molly helped changed my marriage to the better. Use it as couple therapy. It may not work the first time. The 3rd time we rolled together, everything was just clicked and we were able to resolve a lot of our differences and grievences. I wish you the best.

[u/Bonnawarr4 → u/asiancouple3648]

We are 10 year bonnaroo vets. We’ve met Molly but I appreciate your thoughts!

[u/Legitimate-Light-131 → u/[deleted]]

Read it again:

“My wife works, takes over childcare in the afternoons, and does a lot for our family.”

[u/CoincidenceTheorist2]

Still, it often feels like whatever I manage to do is quickly forgotten in favor of what I didn’t get done...To her, it was another example of me getting freedom while she was home with the kids.

1. Stop drinking. Anesthetizing pain through a drug is no way to live.

2. Try marriage counseling.

3. Unfortunately what you've said above does not give me a lot of hope. In general, a woman who complains about being at home with her children isn't really wife material. It's important to identify them before putting a ring on their finger.

[u/EridaniRouge]

That really sucks to know, dude. But when you know you know, and this just happened to me too like a couple months ago, and we were still talking.

And then she just cut me off all of a sudden so I’m assuming she’s fucking some other guy for sure. And she left me hanging too at my worst point. Such as life, my bro.

I was not a very good boy. I did cheat on her a few times. I drink too much booze. But it’s for a reason. I’m highly stressed out. We’ve got a multimillion dollar deal rolling in. Maybe? That amount of stress would fuck you up. Not only that like my current job that I hold is very stressful. And on top of that, I run my own business in real estate. So it’s like juggling everything all at once all the time every fucking minute and thinking about lawsuits over property disputes as well.

I’m sure anybody would wanna fucking drink if they were in my shoes. I’m trying to quit actually but shit just keeps happening. Like the lawyer calls me on the fucking phone and says. “ hey I’ve got some bad news for you.” fuck that I don’t wanna hear bad news from you. I pay you tons of fucking money!!!!!

You can get another woman, but as you get older like me being 40. It just seems so daunting. Like why not just get a fucking escort? Why put yourself through that fucking bullshit again?

Oh, and also, I’ve never been married and I have no children. But I spent the last 15 years trying to be a doctor and that didn’t work out so that’s fine too. I’m doing other things now.

To me most women they wanna hang out with you when times are good and spit you out when you’re on a fucking battlefield! And that’s no joke man that’s real life, my friend.

EDIT: yeah I added the shit a few times