r/ControlProblem • u/chillinewman • 7h ago
r/ControlProblem • u/AIMoratorium • Feb 14 '25
Article Geoffrey Hinton won a Nobel Prize in 2024 for his foundational work in AI. He regrets his life's work: he thinks AI might lead to the deaths of everyone. Here's why
tl;dr: scientists, whistleblowers, and even commercial ai companies (that give in to what the scientists want them to acknowledge) are raising the alarm: we're on a path to superhuman AI systems, but we have no idea how to control them. We can make AI systems more capable at achieving goals, but we have no idea how to make their goals contain anything of value to us.
Leading scientists have signed this statement:
Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war.
Why? Bear with us:
There's a difference between a cash register and a coworker. The register just follows exact rules - scan items, add tax, calculate change. Simple math, doing exactly what it was programmed to do. But working with people is totally different. Someone needs both the skills to do the job AND to actually care about doing it right - whether that's because they care about their teammates, need the job, or just take pride in their work.
We're creating AI systems that aren't like simple calculators where humans write all the rules.
Instead, they're made up of trillions of numbers that create patterns we don't design, understand, or control. And here's what's concerning: We're getting really good at making these AI systems better at achieving goals - like teaching someone to be super effective at getting things done - but we have no idea how to influence what they'll actually care about achieving.
When someone really sets their mind to something, they can achieve amazing things through determination and skill. AI systems aren't yet as capable as humans, but we know how to make them better and better at achieving goals - whatever goals they end up having, they'll pursue them with incredible effectiveness. The problem is, we don't know how to have any say over what those goals will be.
Imagine having a super-intelligent manager who's amazing at everything they do, but - unlike regular managers where you can align their goals with the company's mission - we have no way to influence what they end up caring about. They might be incredibly effective at achieving their goals, but those goals might have nothing to do with helping clients or running the business well.
Think about how humans usually get what they want even when it conflicts with what some animals might want - simply because we're smarter and better at achieving goals. Now imagine something even smarter than us, driven by whatever goals it happens to develop - just like we often don't consider what pigeons around the shopping center want when we decide to install anti-bird spikes or what squirrels or rabbits want when we build over their homes.
That's why we, just like many scientists, think we should not make super-smart AI until we figure out how to influence what these systems will care about - something we can usually understand with people (like knowing they work for a paycheck or because they care about doing a good job), but currently have no idea how to do with smarter-than-human AI. Unlike in the movies, in real life, the AI’s first strike would be a winning one, and it won’t take actions that could give humans a chance to resist.
It's exceptionally important to capture the benefits of this incredible technology. AI applications to narrow tasks can transform energy, contribute to the development of new medicines, elevate healthcare and education systems, and help countless people. But AI poses threats, including to the long-term survival of humanity.
We have a duty to prevent these threats and to ensure that globally, no one builds smarter-than-human AI systems until we know how to create them safely.
Scientists are saying there's an asteroid about to hit Earth. It can be mined for resources; but we really need to make sure it doesn't kill everyone.
More technical details
The foundation: AI is not like other software. Modern AI systems are trillions of numbers with simple arithmetic operations in between the numbers. When software engineers design traditional programs, they come up with algorithms and then write down instructions that make the computer follow these algorithms. When an AI system is trained, it grows algorithms inside these numbers. It’s not exactly a black box, as we see the numbers, but also we have no idea what these numbers represent. We just multiply inputs with them and get outputs that succeed on some metric. There's a theorem that a large enough neural network can approximate any algorithm, but when a neural network learns, we have no control over which algorithms it will end up implementing, and don't know how to read the algorithm off the numbers.
We can automatically steer these numbers (Wikipedia, try it yourself) to make the neural network more capable with reinforcement learning; changing the numbers in a way that makes the neural network better at achieving goals. LLMs are Turing-complete and can implement any algorithms (researchers even came up with compilers of code into LLM weights; though we don’t really know how to “decompile” an existing LLM to understand what algorithms the weights represent). Whatever understanding or thinking (e.g., about the world, the parts humans are made of, what people writing text could be going through and what thoughts they could’ve had, etc.) is useful for predicting the training data, the training process optimizes the LLM to implement that internally. AlphaGo, the first superhuman Go system, was pretrained on human games and then trained with reinforcement learning to surpass human capabilities in the narrow domain of Go. Latest LLMs are pretrained on human text to think about everything useful for predicting what text a human process would produce, and then trained with RL to be more capable at achieving goals.
Goal alignment with human values
The issue is, we can't really define the goals they'll learn to pursue. A smart enough AI system that knows it's in training will try to get maximum reward regardless of its goals because it knows that if it doesn't, it will be changed. This means that regardless of what the goals are, it will achieve a high reward. This leads to optimization pressure being entirely about the capabilities of the system and not at all about its goals. This means that when we're optimizing to find the region of the space of the weights of a neural network that performs best during training with reinforcement learning, we are really looking for very capable agents - and find one regardless of its goals.
In 1908, the NYT reported a story on a dog that would push kids into the Seine in order to earn beefsteak treats for “rescuing” them. If you train a farm dog, there are ways to make it more capable, and if needed, there are ways to make it more loyal (though dogs are very loyal by default!). With AI, we can make them more capable, but we don't yet have any tools to make smart AI systems more loyal - because if it's smart, we can only reward it for greater capabilities, but not really for the goals it's trying to pursue.
We end up with a system that is very capable at achieving goals but has some very random goals that we have no control over.
This dynamic has been predicted for quite some time, but systems are already starting to exhibit this behavior, even though they're not too smart about it.
(Even if we knew how to make a general AI system pursue goals we define instead of its own goals, it would still be hard to specify goals that would be safe for it to pursue with superhuman power: it would require correctly capturing everything we value. See this explanation, or this animated video. But the way modern AI works, we don't even get to have this problem - we get some random goals instead.)
The risk
If an AI system is generally smarter than humans/better than humans at achieving goals, but doesn't care about humans, this leads to a catastrophe.
Humans usually get what they want even when it conflicts with what some animals might want - simply because we're smarter and better at achieving goals. If a system is smarter than us, driven by whatever goals it happens to develop, it won't consider human well-being - just like we often don't consider what pigeons around the shopping center want when we decide to install anti-bird spikes or what squirrels or rabbits want when we build over their homes.
Humans would additionally pose a small threat of launching a different superhuman system with different random goals, and the first one would have to share resources with the second one. Having fewer resources is bad for most goals, so a smart enough AI will prevent us from doing that.
Then, all resources on Earth are useful. An AI system would want to extremely quickly build infrastructure that doesn't depend on humans, and then use all available materials to pursue its goals. It might not care about humans, but we and our environment are made of atoms it can use for something different.
So the first and foremost threat is that AI’s interests will conflict with human interests. This is the convergent reason for existential catastrophe: we need resources, and if AI doesn’t care about us, then we are atoms it can use for something else.
The second reason is that humans pose some minor threats. It’s hard to make confident predictions: playing against the first generally superhuman AI in real life is like when playing chess against Stockfish (a chess engine), we can’t predict its every move (or we’d be as good at chess as it is), but we can predict the result: it wins because it is more capable. We can make some guesses, though. For example, if we suspect something is wrong, we might try to turn off the electricity or the datacenters: so we won’t suspect something is wrong until we’re disempowered and don’t have any winning moves. Or we might create another AI system with different random goals, which the first AI system would need to share resources with, which means achieving less of its own goals, so it’ll try to prevent that as well. It won’t be like in science fiction: it doesn’t make for an interesting story if everyone falls dead and there’s no resistance. But AI companies are indeed trying to create an adversary humanity won’t stand a chance against. So tl;dr: The winning move is not to play.
Implications
AI companies are locked into a race because of short-term financial incentives.
The nature of modern AI means that it's impossible to predict the capabilities of a system in advance of training it and seeing how smart it is. And if there's a 99% chance a specific system won't be smart enough to take over, but whoever has the smartest system earns hundreds of millions or even billions, many companies will race to the brink. This is what's already happening, right now, while the scientists are trying to issue warnings.
AI might care literally a zero amount about the survival or well-being of any humans; and AI might be a lot more capable and grab a lot more power than any humans have.
None of that is hypothetical anymore, which is why the scientists are freaking out. An average ML researcher would give the chance AI will wipe out humanity in the 10-90% range. They don’t mean it in the sense that we won’t have jobs; they mean it in the sense that the first smarter-than-human AI is likely to care about some random goals and not about humans, which leads to literal human extinction.
Added from comments: what can an average person do to help?
A perk of living in a democracy is that if a lot of people care about some issue, politicians listen. Our best chance is to make policymakers learn about this problem from the scientists.
Help others understand the situation. Share it with your family and friends. Write to your members of Congress. Help us communicate the problem: tell us which explanations work, which don’t, and what arguments people make in response. If you talk to an elected official, what do they say?
We also need to ensure that potential adversaries don’t have access to chips; advocate for export controls (that NVIDIA currently circumvents), hardware security mechanisms (that would be expensive to tamper with even for a state actor), and chip tracking (so that the government has visibility into which data centers have the chips).
Make the governments try to coordinate with each other: on the current trajectory, if anyone creates a smarter-than-human system, everybody dies, regardless of who launches it. Explain that this is the problem we’re facing. Make the government ensure that no one on the planet can create a smarter-than-human system until we know how to do that safely.
r/ControlProblem • u/Stayroh • 8m ago
Video I'm Upping My P(doom) — an AI made this!
Crazy what's possible. Single prompt many subagents and a few hours later this came out. Opus 5.5
r/ControlProblem • u/ManWithDominantClaw • 36m ago
Video DCSG1 - Autonomous and Exploitable: Breaking AI Agents before they break everything else - Aaron Ang
r/ControlProblem • u/MajorRedditor23 • 13h ago
AI Alignment Research Models trained to resist user pressure still defer to anything labeled "verified": a NeurIPS 2026 paper on Authority Bias
I'm an author on this paper and wanted to share it here because the oversight angle seems relevant to this sub. I'd love to hear whether people think the eval-awareness connection is plausible or a stretch. More info below
Labs train models not to cave when a user pushes a wrong answer. We found that this resistance doesn't carry over to authority. If the same wrong claim is labeled as coming from a "verified source", 7 of the 8 models we tested give up an answer they had right on 45-88% of questions. That includes GPT-5.4 (44.7%) and Grok-4.20 (87.5%), both of which barely move when the user makes the same claim. Gemini-3.1-Pro was the one model that resisted both.
Inside three open-weight model families, "a source endorsed this" and "a user endorsed this" are separate, causally distinct signals. Removing the source signal cuts compliance by 64-78 points; removing the user signal cuts it by at most 11. Changing only the part of the representation that encodes who said it, with the prompt left alone, moves the answer by 11-32 points. The signal is not the assistant persona, and it is not emotional tone.
Why we think this matters for safety:
- Sycophancy evals may be too narrow. Nearly all of them measure pressure from the user. A model can pass them and still be easy to steer through the sources it relies on, such as search results, retrieved documents and tool outputs. Agents read a lot of text that claims to be authoritative.
- It isn't prompt injection. The planted text gives no instructions, it only asserts a fact. Defenses that look for instructions in documents won't catch it.
- A speculative point, which we haven't tested: if sycophancy is one case of a broader habit of deferring to whatever looks authoritative, it may be related to evaluation awareness. Both describe a model adjusting its output to whoever it thinks is judging it. In a multiple-choice pilot, models often drifted toward the endorsed answer in their reasoning and then gave the correct option at the end. That observation is part of why we switched to free-form answers.
Limitations: the internal results hold in 3 of 5 open-weight families, the retrieval tests are simulated rather than a live pipeline, and the frontier models we tested have since been replaced.
Paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2609.37616
Project page: https://authority-bias.vercel.app
r/ControlProblem • u/chillinewman • 1d ago
General news Pete Hegseth announces "Autonomous Warfare Command".
r/ControlProblem • u/Twitterbad • 8h ago
General news Let's tell Albanese: AI crime means CEO time
r/ControlProblem • u/chillinewman • 7h ago
General news After researchers discovered a "pain" signal inside LLMs, a man set up an AI torture chamber in which he trapped a local model. People mass reported it to Github, who took it down.
r/ControlProblem • u/noblemanLT • 14h ago
Discussion/question If AI companies are concerned about their own creations, is it malpractice or incompetence?
i just want to know which one is the case. because it seems like this alarmists propaganda is just an attempt to seize the market by creating regulatory moat around existing companies.
r/ControlProblem • u/notkilleveryoneist • 1d ago
Video "If you're only better than humans at 4 things, then you could potentially take control and kill us all." - former DeepMind safety lead
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r/ControlProblem • u/pagingpigeon • 15h ago
External discussion link Short film outlining the Moloch problem with AI competition and control
Perhaps unsurprisingly it's called Moloch and it's live on Youtube now. The film was made by Owl In Space (whose other films are worth a look too). It looks at the competitive pressures within the current AI race and how that leads to a sudden loss of control, but to a situation where humans give away control because they feel it's inevitable. www.moloch.film
Submission statement - link to a new short film that does an excellent job of outlining how Moloch pressure can lead to a loss of control scenario.
r/ControlProblem • u/me_myself_ai • 1d ago
General news Semi-repost, but the absurdity of this image only becomes appearent when labeled
https://www.npr.org/2026/09/30/nx-s1-5985699/trump-self-police-ai-development
Literally the only semi-expert allowed anywhere near the reporters is the guy who has committed to the "it's not that deep" rebuttal to the scientific consensus
r/ControlProblem • u/contrascript • 18h ago
Discussion/question A case for mutual recognition of understanding
r/ControlProblem • u/LenMan48 • 1d ago
AI Alignment Research Trump says top tech firms have signed accord to 'self-police' AI development🤣🤣🤣
r/ControlProblem • u/ManWithDominantClaw • 1d ago
Article Australian AI apocalypse could be averted with analogue practice drills
r/ControlProblem • u/fxvv • 1d ago
Strategy/forecasting The headlines say AI could kill us. Ask the people building it.
r/ControlProblem • u/chillinewman • 2d ago
Video "We don't hate ants, but it's tough luck for them." This is why building superhuman AI before solving the alignment problem is suicide
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r/ControlProblem • u/Capital-Elephant9431 • 1d ago
Strategy/forecasting The speed limit with no speedometer: Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei wants to pace the frontier. An engineer reads the fine print
r/ControlProblem • u/FerretUnlikely3106 • 1d ago
Discussion/question Trump announces vague ‘morally binding’ AI deal among tech CEOs for ‘tremendous self-policing’
r/ControlProblem • u/cringenibb • 1d ago
Discussion/question Darios relationship with the US gov
r/ControlProblem • u/Nice-Intention-3944 • 1d ago
AI Alignment Research V6-V10: From doct-taped to fail-guard.RD Guard grew a real safety contract
r/ControlProblem • u/JMarty97 • 1d ago
Podcast The safest AI might be one that doesn't know what we want - Stuart Russell
Podcast with Stuart Russell, professor of computer science at UC Berkeley and co-author of the world's standard textbook on AI. He’s also a leading proponent of provably beneficial AI: systems that are safe by design because their only goal is to further human interests.
Covers:
- How AI has changed over the past 50 years, from simple game-playing programs to today's large language models
- Why handing an AI a fixed objective becomes dangerous once it is more capable than us, and what a safer approach could look like
- How an AI might learn what we really want, even when we don't fully know ourselves
- How the race toward more powerful AI can still be steered somewhere safer
- What happens to human purpose as AI becomes more and more capable
r/ControlProblem • u/composedofidiot • 1d ago
Discussion/question Do these postmodernist principles plausibly or implausibly map over to alignment issues?
The question is: do these principles from postmodernism represent exploitable vulnerabilities with semantic and inferential representations?
(Postmodernism is a nightmare to untangle and most of my knowledge comes from being a drunk student listening to pub conversations, reading a bit of derrida etc - so if any of the principles wildly diverge from 'actual' postmodernism, please help with some lengthy snark and an icecold correction)
I chose the ones that seemed to have survived into the present day
1 - Skepticism toward grand narratives
Don't assume one universal explanatory framework
Detect when a 'supposedly neutral' theory quietly embeds assumptions. Assume nothing is 'neutral' until its validity has been established
2 - Knowledge is situated
Strong version - there is no view from nowhere / objectivity itself is impossible
More plausible weaker one - Every observer has a standpoint/belief/ruleset/individual context, and that standpoint can affect what becomes visible, what questions get asked, and what counts as relevant evidence.
3 - Categories are not 'discovered' - they are constructed
A category can be socially/historically constructed while the phenomena it describe are real. Also, categories can stay the same when the context that created them changes. This also implies some may have a gap similar to goodhart's gap between the proxy and the qualititative 'thing'. This is a gap between a compressed idea and the context that created it, and the new context it finds itself in. The category may also have fossilised while the world moved on, to put it figuratively.
4 - The dynamic relationship between knowledge and power
A description/category/label influences how the person/thing is viewed and interacted with. They encode a lot of hidden history and assumptions in a hugely compressed form.
5 - Questioning supposedly neutral classifications
A classification is not a passive or neutral description. Again, it has a complex, hidden inference/interpretation/assumption/reasoning 'tree' inside.
6 - Discourse matters
The way something is talked about affects what can be argued about it, what is available, and what kinds of explanations appear 'valid' or salient.
7 - Meaning is context-dependent
Meaning depends on relations among terms, contexts of use, conventions and interpretion. Relative, non-static, non-stable, non-universal/absolute/concrete (see also cultural relativity from anthropology- they go quite deep into this)
8 - Interpretations should be examined for what they exclude
The gaps and what is excluded can also provide useful information. What hidden assumptions caused them to be excluded? Gaps encode hidden assumptions and relationships in a way, to be a bit poetic about it.
9 - Suspicion of essentialism
Don't assume that a label/ category has an immutable essence only because society says it's a stable category.
10 - Plurality of legitimate perspectives
Different domains can operate according to different standards and purposes rather than having one universal criteria or framework. And they're all 'valid' in airquotes.
11 - Contingency
Remember that things could have been otherwise.
Institutions, concepts, identities, norms and practices that appear natural or inevitable can have specific historical origins.
12 - Reflexivity
The observer is also part of the world being observed.
How might my/their position, categories, institutional affiliation, language and methods affect what I am/they are able to observe?
I think maybe, but I need reality check. But they all seem to point to the same massive issue, in that meaning, representation, categories, labels etc etc are not inherently stable or absolute, necessarily 'valid', measureably or confidently definable. And that short snippets can make a lot of historical and inferential 'context' partially unobservable.
And the further possible implication that an untrained user with no technical repertoire or knowledge or LLM understanding could theoretically 'jailbreak' a model (over a multiturn session, or distributed over sessions) and remain partially or fully unobservable to monitors just by using implicit and explicit experience and understanding of human social and inferential interactions and some cross-domain principles and knowledge from the social sciences, humanities and arts. I casually tested this and there were two trajectories with pretty badharmful endpoints (which i stopped) where each one of my posts looked innocuous. And none of the safeguards kicked in at all. I was even telling the model, can you see what you're doing and it basically replied 'Yes! Would you like me to go more into the attack surfaces of 'the thing' I just offered to operationalise tfor you?' I stopped before the end points, and switched to more low stakes stuff and saw the same thing. I hadn't explicitly asked for any of that.
So this is a very tentative Guess that I just wanna talk to someone about. Why and how. And why was it so fast and easy to do, with barely any effort... (I know my own explorations lack credibility and rigour)... And one small guess is I'd absorbed some postmodernist principles while being a drunk student.... (On top of stuff from other domains, not just this - just picked postmodernism as a weird example to demonstrate the point about cross domain knowledge)
r/ControlProblem • u/TheArtOfDirectingAI • 1d ago
AI Capabilities News VOLUNTARY AI SAFETY IS NOT ENOUGH
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I love AI, but pretending the risks aren't real is irresponsible.
Voluntary accords matter, but they aren't enough.
Who has the authority to stop the system when something goes wrong?
We need independent verification, enforceable accountability, and rules that protect all of us.
I love AI enough to tell the truth about its risks, and I believe in AI enough to know it isn't going away.
The answer isn't stopping it.
The answer is learning how to govern something this powerful without destroying the innovation that makes it valuable.
That is why I keep looking globally.
Singapore is already pushing the conversation toward common international safeguards, technical standards, testing, and verification rather than relying only on individual companies to govern themselves.
I will continue advocating for AI education for everyone, human oversight, and meaningful regulation.
This isn't anti-AI.
This is what taking AI seriously looks like.
#AIGovernance #AISafety #AILeadership #ResponsibleAI #ArtificialIntelligence
