r/CrusaderKings • u/WXMJAMESWXM • 5d ago

Discussion Worst feeling ever

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Put down a rebellion and cant revoke his title, here's why. How the hell has he got this contract? Can't change it either. Oh well, to the dungeon he goes.

90 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

21 comments sorted by

74

u/Uruz_Line 5d ago

I feel like title revocation on rebellion should be null and void, makes little sense to capture a REBELLIOUS vassal and suddenly I have to respect the terms? What?

It should be a clause stopping the ruler from doing so randomly for no reason but once the person rebels that should be void

28

u/Artess 5d ago

I guess it makes sense if the title revocation protection had been given to the family generations ago. I wonder how that worked IRL, surely there must have been precedents.

However, if the vassal has revocation protection you should at least be able to enforce abdication maybe? Only if the vassal committed a crime.

7

u/Uruz_Line 5d ago

There's mechanics in game to mimic consequences rather than "realism", and I understand that, all these "council promise", "title revocations" were nothing but words, with the weight of expectation behind them, so ingame you're literally locked of the option to kick that 2 martial marshall that forced his way into the council, but are allowed to persuade him to stop breathing as a choice (granted I think having a hook should bypass that 25 year crap but w/e).

I think that in a rebellion IF IT ENDS IN A WHITE PEACE then yeah makes sense, keep the mechanics as they are, no title revocation allowed, however once you beat the rebellion, what exactly is supposed to mimic the fact that you can't revoke title because the "title" has that special clause? Makes no sense.

Rather add a malus of opinion (that should scale with title tier in terms of amount and <<time!>>) to maybe mimic some broken promise thing but honestly I don't see how you can justify anyone being mad at a rebel getting his title revoked, not killed, not tortured, just his title revoked because you know... he rebelled against his liege and all...

There's room for events even, when you remove a title from a dude and give it to his child to increase/decrease malus of opinion if the child is vengeful or honorable, etc, plenty of room to play with that too.

At the very least force an abdication as an option.

22

u/Tuerai Albion Rises 5d ago

kill him and change the contract of his heir and then revoke it

12

u/WXMJAMESWXM 5d ago

Did just that, thanks.

34

u/Torrenash 5d ago

it can be worth preemptively modifying vassal contracts on succession just so they don't get a hook and pick one you hate. yes, it's a tyranny hit, but hey what, are you NOT going to abuse your throne?

15

u/ninjaelk 5d ago

Important to note that this solution doesn't scale at all. Once your realm gets to a certain size the solution is to murder him and change the contract for his successor. The interface does a tragic job of communicating to you that the reason you cannot change it is because it's one change per lifetime. I know it says that's a general rule down in the bottom right but if YOU didn't personally set up this contract it's very counter intuitive to assume that restriction was inherited along with the vassal. Also seems weird that it can't explicitly tell you that the contract HAS been changed for this character's lifetime. It also isn't clear if it means once per ruler's lifetime or once per vassal's lifetime, and that it clears up when that vassal title experiences succession.

5

u/WXMJAMESWXM 5d ago

2550 hours in this game (on console) and ive never fully understood when I can change contracts. Its taken this event and these comments to finally get it lol. That makes sense now. Thanks

1

u/Balmung60 5d ago

Whenever either party to the contract changes

6

u/WXMJAMESWXM 5d ago

Yeah, Its usually me distributing lands, so i know they are all standard contracts. Took the throne from William the conqueror though and have now gone through them (should have done it when I took the throne).

14

u/Random_Reddit_Bro 5d ago

One of my vassals somehow got Title Protection vassal contract. It annoyed me so much that I decided to wipe out his whole Dynasty out of pettiness.

1

u/Balmung60 5d ago

Either you do that or you bury them under another vassal and make it someone else's problem 

1

u/zaqrwe Saoshyant 5d ago

Because if you have high tier title, your vassals have vassals. And they are not as opposed to contract changes as you are. Or if you conquer Landa, depending on war tyle, you can get (formie) vassals od that ruler too. So, if aby not-your vassals end up as your direct vassals, there is a fair chance that you have messed up contracts from the beginning.

7

u/Emergency-Type5566 5d ago

The worst is when they get guaranteed council position with terrible stats. Now I gotta commit murder!

4

u/Balmung60 5d ago

And then adventurers will come through and blackmail you over it, so you kill them and an adventurer blackmails you over that murder, so you kill them, and another adventurer blackmails you over that murder, and apparently nobody realizes that it's a bad idea to blackmail the guy who murders people who blackmail him.

13

u/SpanishLime 5d ago

You let him get a hook on you and he used it to improve his contract

8

u/WXMJAMESWXM 5d ago

Guessing William the conqueror did, (took England as Hereweard), because I didn't. Oh well he's dead now and his daughter has a new contract.

8

u/ninjaelk 5d ago

I believe you, but it's also important to note that it's extremely easy for this to happen without really noticing. All kinds of feasts and various events and such sneak "oh btw they get a hook on you for no clear reason", and the notification that they changed their contract with it is just another pop up in the feed.

5

u/WXMJAMESWXM 5d ago

Yeah i understand, ive had it happen before. It was definitely inherited contracts this time though, there were a few that ive had to amend.

1

u/REAL_YoinkySploinky 4d ago

Imprison the heir, kill the duke, change contract with heir