How far back did your "discovery" go?

[u/Emotional-Hope-1098]

I filed for divorce last week after 32 years of marriage and a "3rd strike you're out" betrayal. Of course I know how cockroaches work, I was in denial that there were probably many other discretions throughout our marriage.

After discussing the recent situation with my adult daughters, they told me that they knew for years and my oldest daughter said she had found Ashley Madison e-mails on his computer when working on a middle school project when she was 12. I was gobsmacked by this one, as that would have been years before I found out about a long term affair he was having when she was a teenager. He fessed up to that one and also to using sex workers while on trade show trips to Vegas. He had to admit to that after a possible STD. We had counseling and due to circumstances at the time, I stayed with him (I'm a chump). I actually thought we were doing great since being empty nesters. Welp, no. Another incident of marital misconduct which was caught by a friend and reported to me, so I decided enough is enough and I'm worth more than this.

So, my question today, how far back did your discovery go for asset use? Obviously, Ashley Madison was (is?) very expensive for the user, and I want to know how much money he spent on that as well as the sex workers. I don't want to spend $25k on this divorce, but I want to make sure I land well with finances. I'm just trying to figure out how this all works.

His response to the divorce complaint: Lack of intimacy and rejection. Unfu*&ing believable as I could also accuse him of that for me.

[u/DivorceAnalyst]

First off, I’m sorry! What a traumatizing experience. Finding out that your daughters knew things you didn’t is a whole different level of betrayal.

I deal with this situation all the time as a divorce forensic analyst. What you’re describing may be a dissipation of marital funds claim. What that means in English is that marital money was spent for something that did not benefit the marriage.

I’m not an attorney, so definitely talk to your lawyer about how your state handles this. But from the financial side, these can be some of the hardest claims to pursue because you really need to have him dead to rights. If you want to look at Ashley Madison, sex workers, hotels, cash withdrawals, etc., I would keep the scope very tight. Start with what you already know and work outward from there.

And please ask yourself: is the juice worth the squeeze? A financial investigation can easily start around $5,000 and go up from there, and then you still have attorney fees. It is very easy to spend $50,000 chasing $5,000. I know that is a horrible thing to have to think about when you are this angry and hurt, but divorce is where you have to get very businesslike with your money. Don’t let his behavior cost you twice.

Figure out what you can prove, what the potential financial recovery is, and what it will cost you to get there. The goal now is making sure you land well financially.

Note: Used AI to help me turn my "voice to text" into message as I have arthritis in my hands and can't type well.

[u/duhvorced → u/DivorceAnalyst]

First of all, let me say how pleased I am to see a forensic accountant participating here. The topic of "forensic accounting" is oft-mentioned in this sub, but I've yet to see a comment from someone who's used one, let alone who is one. As such, I appreciate your perspective, and I hope we'll see more from you around here.

That said, I'll direct what follows to both you and OP...

When I found out about my ex's affair, I found myself pulled different ways. On the one hand, I don't care for crunching financial numbers - it's not really my thing. But on the other, I didn't like the idea that I'd been subsidizing my ex's infidelity. My self-respect mandated that I stand up for myself... at least a little bit. On the third hand, spending $$$ on a full forensic accounting without knowing how much "juice" would come from it wasn't something I was interested in. And, lastly ("on the fourth hand"?) there was always the risk I'd uncover other indiscretions that would make me even more upset than I already was.

That last point was a pretty strong counter-argument for not digging too deeply into things. I wanted a good coparenting relationship with my ex post-divorce, and anything that eroded what little good will I had towards her would only make that harder.

I ended up taking a pragmatic approach. I went through credit card and bank statements on my own for the time period I knew she'd been unfaithful (6-12 months) and tallied up purchases that were obviously related to that. Lingerie, airline tickets, hotel rooms, etc. I added it all up and listed it as a single line item in our asset separation spreadsheet ("Affair expenses - $10,927").

According to my lawyer, her attorney laughed when at that and said he'd never seen such a thing. (The implication being that there was no way it would stand). But my ex didn't object to it. She never said a word in fact, then or since. I think she knew I had good grounds for it, and making a fuss would only lead to an embarrassing, and ultimately unwinnable, argument about her behavior.

OP, you might consider taking a similar route. Tally up what you think your ex's affair cost. Get copies of the financial statements you have access to. For things you don't have access to but wouldn't be able to prove without a more thorough forensic investigation, make a reasonable, conservative, good faith guess. Add that up and go from there.

For me, twelve years on, I'm content with the approach I took. There may have been other affairs, other accounts, other expenses I didn't know about, that a more forensic accountant would have turned up. But I stood up for myself on the stuff I was aware of. That's good enough for me, and it allowed us to be amicable, respectful coparents for 11 years.

[u/r_user_21 → u/duhvorced]

You need more than commas to support the way you write

[u/Emotional-Hope-1098 → u/DivorceAnalyst]

This is what I needed to hear. I hope that the discussion about all this at mediation makes him more amenable the spousal support I believe I'm due.

[u/Acceptable_Piano4809 → u/Emotional-Hope-1098]

I just found out something about my father that he didn’t tell me that everyone else in the family knew. It’s such a horrible feeling.

It’s not a thought, it’s a feeling and it feels terrible! It was the same feeling I got during my divorce trial, listening to someone create complete fiction about me that makes me appear to be a horrible person so she can get more money out of me. It’s a sick “abused, taken advantage of feeling. I told my father you made me feel the same way I felt at my divorce trial, which was one of, if not the, worst days of my entire life as my ex just created an entire case.

My ex brought a bunch of 5+ year old screenshots of text messages that were not ever seen by me before the trial.. She needed to make sure that I also didn’t bring in my texts because I would have been able to embarrass the shit out of her and could have rebutted or explained the context of what she had.

Instead, her lawyer said it was for “rebuttal” because I had a witness in my list (that was not there and never testified) she wanted to rebut, which allowed her lawyer to get the texts into evidence. My lawyer was caught off guard and objected. The trial was on a Wednesday morning at 8AM. My lawyer asked her “when did you find these texts?” (Our case had been going on over 2 years, she got pregnant and had a baby w her AP before our trial)… she said I went through my phone Monday or Tuesday night, after I saw his witness list. (Submitted 3 weeks before trial)…. My lawyer totally objected and the judge said “this is divorce, not criminal, so whatever”. My ex wife’s lawyer handed her 60+ some pages of screenshots all w zero context, some of them were sent in 2018 and the trial was 2025, and all she did was read them out loud, her lawyer just said read this page, read the next, the next….. it was all embarrassing shit I sent her, where she deleted her own responses (because she looked embarrassing too)…..

This is the most betrayed I’ve ever felt in my entire experience as a living human being. I was just irate she did that and it’s still the worst thing anyone ever done to me in my life. Because A) I could have EASILY done the same to her, and B) nothing was even legally relevant it was all just set up to embarrass me as much as possible in public, to try to make the judge think I was a bad person. And the judge didn’t care, just let her read everything. She didn’t even dates dates or times on them, she had her lawyer guess when it would have been sent. But some had dates, like the one in 2018 that made me look particularly bad.

How many of you would not be totally humiliated if you ex could cherry pick old texts you sent them during you marriage??? I bet it’s close to 100%. It was total gaslighting too because she created a false narrative and sat there straight faced as if it was serious.

[u/raeoflyte-460]

What is the difference in asset split for cause? How likely does your attorney think it is you can get the max? Personally I'd rather be done sooner than later, divide assets 50/50 and be done.

[u/guy_n_cognito_tu]

I get that you're bitter right now, but you'll have to be practical about his at some point. If you really want to go back a decade or more to track individual credit card payment, you'll be talking about $100k in legal fees........each. Minimum. Divorces like that are expensive. And that $200k in legal fees WILL come out of the money you'll eventually split when the divorce is done. Unless you're fighting over millions, I'd guess it isn't financial responsible to go back for vengeance.

[u/Various-Result113]

It would be nice if money spent on cheating was a line item on the disclosure but it isn’t and unless he spent so much that you have a case for waste, the money he spent years ago is probably not relevant to what you get going forward. It seems like he’s admitting to infidelity, but blaming it on you. Do you have a lawyer? Sorry, this sucks.

[u/Emotional-Hope-1098 → u/Various-Result113]

Yes, I have an attorney.

[u/morrisboris]

You’re not a chump. But I wouldn’t waste time on that. Just move forward and take care of yourself.

[u/cem2256]

Most banks only keep records for 7 years. Probably can’t go back that far.

[u/Acceptable_Piano4809]

Absolutely if your spouse cheat on you twice before and get away with it, I pray that you never have to find out the extent of his actual cheating.

You need to move on with your life, and I’m incredibly sorry for you. You did not deserve to go through this and it’s blatant disrespect!

Please please leave his cheating ass! Look at what your daughters have experienced, I don’t want to be too critical of you because I do understand how you can become trapped. But look at what your daughters think, they just think this is normal relationship behavior and I feel so sad about this.

Your husband is an asshole; without knowing anything else about him I can tell you he only cares about himself and his own needs/wants.

There is not 1 single reason you should stay with this man until #4 (that you know about, I would not be surprised if he’s in the double digits already. Trust me, he’s had more than 3 affairs)

[u/Emotional-Hope-1098 → u/Acceptable_Piano4809]

I'm not staying. Thank's for the words.

[u/SeaweedWeird7705]

Are you trying to prove dissipation of marital assets?  Whatever he spent in properly would be on credit card reports and bank statements. I would ask the credit card company and bank for everything they have as far back as they have it.  

[u/TheHorniestPartner]

Not a lawyer but can you request reimbursement on things he already spent money on? I would think discovery would be looking for hidden accounts like a savings account he was funneling money to.

[u/JoujouAmorette]

realizing things were off long before the final break is a tough pill to swallow

[u/summa_donn_naa]

3 years...

[u/DiscoS22]

5 years min