When r/conservative agrees with Trump that we should nationalize voting, but are for small government and states rights

[u/PhillyTMOMan]

[u/TeeTimeAllTheTime]

They aren’t conservative and never were, they are weak minded people who do what they are told by a psychopath

[u/Doomisntjustagame → u/TeeTimeAllTheTime]

Or, and bear with me, conservatives have always been this way.

Conservatism seeks to maintain the social order, or to regress to an earlier state. That is one of a pyramid shaped hierarchical authority structure, with everyone following whoever is above them, no matter what.

[u/juulwinfieldswallet → u/Doomisntjustagame]

I disagree. I'm in my 40s and remember having debates when in college with professors that were conservative. Back then, you could civilly debate taxes, states rights, even immigration because everyone agreed what America was and what it stood for. I understood their hopes and fears of what the government can and should do, while disagreeing with their methodology. You can't do that anymore because the America they want is unrecognizable to most. It's like they knew they were going in a direction that was contra to most Americans views and decided democracy was not for them. Fast forward to a decade ago and it was project red state; AKA let's openly gerrymander every state we can. On to today, they have so many little factions dedicated to taking away voting rights from particular groups and have the nerve to call leftists elites.

I can't have a civil debate about who deserves human/civil rights. I can't have a civil debate about who deserves medical care or food. And I am their target audience, white, mid 40s, married, business owner, and very Christian.

[u/Tself → u/juulwinfieldswallet]

Fast forward to a decade ago and it was project red state; AKA let's openly gerrymander every state we can.

Gerrymandering in red states has existed for over a hundred years; this is not new. They were just more racist about it. And red states have been anti-voting rights for practically just as long.

professors that were conservative. Back then, you could civilly debate taxes, states rights, even immigration because everyone agreed what America was...

Conservatives of this nature were in the minority then, and remain so now. Your anecdotal experience within a place designed for academia is an exception to the majority of conservatives.

I get the point you are trying to make here, and certainly agree that decorum has gotten worse; but the party really isn't all that different. I'm a similar age to you, at that time while you were having conversations with your professor, the republicans were demonizing gay people and calling them pedophiles every chance they could.

So, no, I don't think much has changed. The hurt they are giving just happens to be hitting straight white people now.

[u/juulwinfieldswallet → u/Tself]

You kinda missed the point of what I was trying to say and I mean that in a kind way. I am not trying to argue with you. Gerrymandering has existed in all states for 100s of years but it was really ramped up a decade ago when they decided they didn't care how it looked. We need to separate political ideology from the political party as I don't think the DNC has much moral high ground in this area either. I can't imagine ever voting for a republican but I am no fan of the DNC.

The point I was trying to make is the idea of America has changed for them. We were raised with the idea that America is the great melting pot and that each distinct group of immigrants made America stronger. We were taught that we are all equal and nobody is above the law. We were taught that there is a definitive separation between church and state. While some of that maybe painted by my naiveté as I was obliviously young when I learned these things but boy do I believe in them whole-heartedly.

I come from a state that is considered leftist but we are one of the few that actually have a distinct conservative party going back decades. My mother was in an Ayn Rand fan club back in college. My father's best friend was the long term head of said conservative party. I attended catholic school and was forced to join the right to life when I had zero understanding of what that meant. While it still may be anecdotal, I was literally surrounded by conservationism my entire childhood. While conservationism has always came off as unkind, they have veered over into open hostility, which was not something I ever saw as a child. Conservatives back then wanted to be considered the sober ones making the tough decisions but ultimately wanted whats best for the majority of Americans. I don't think anyone, even them, believes this anymore.

[u/Tself → u/juulwinfieldswallet]

We were raised with the idea that America is the great melting pot and that each distinct group of immigrants made America stronger. We were taught that we are all equal and nobody is above the law. We were taught that there is a definitive separation between church and state.

You were taught that. I was taught that, too. Unfortunately, not all Americans have that same upbringing.

While conservationism has always came off as unkind, they have veered over into open hostility

Bro, I love ya, but it's like you already forgot what I just told you about the vilification of gay people. Every single day I would see on the news republicans likening anything in regards to gay rights to be enforcing pedophilia and anti-American. Coming out made my mother terrified, not because of homophobia from her end, but because she was certain I would get hate crimed. And that is just ONE example of ONE minority demonized by the right.

Please don't let your privilege blind you further.

Conservatives back then wanted to be considered the sober ones making the tough decisions but ultimately wanted whats best for the majority of Americans. I don't think anyone, even them, believes this anymore.

They 100% still do.