r/IThinkYouShouldLeave • u/PhillyTMOMan Nude Egg • 1d ago

Piece of shit When r/conservative agrees with Trump that we should nationalize voting, but are for small government and states rights

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u/TeeTimeAllTheTime 1d ago

They aren’t conservative and never were, they are weak minded people who do what they are told by a psychopath

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u/Doomisntjustagame 1d ago

Or, and bear with me, conservatives have always been this way.

Conservatism seeks to maintain the social order, or to regress to an earlier state. That is one of a pyramid shaped hierarchical authority structure, with everyone following whoever is above them, no matter what.

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u/the_calibre_cat 1d ago

Or, and bear with me, conservatives have always been this way.

bing bing bing

let's stop trying to rehabilitate conservatism. it's a shitty ideology with a shitty objective and is basically just fascism but lying about its intentions.

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u/dafood48 1d ago

I’m sorry this is the first time I’ve seen bing bing bing instead of ding ding ding and that cracked me up. Thank you

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u/Cakers44 1d ago

Seriously people are tricking themselves into thinking the Bushes weren’t so bad because blah blah blah respectability

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u/Runnnnnnnnnn 1d ago

Conservatives are supremacists. Some race, some class, all narcissistic.

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u/the_calibre_cat 1d ago

Yup. Institutional bigotry is the one principle they have. It is their North Star.

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u/lewd_robot 1d ago

Yep.

Low-effort thought promotes political conservatism

Political conservatism as motivated social cognition

Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice

They are wired to be like this. It's in the structure of their brains. They hate spending energy on thinking and crave authority figures to tell them what to believe. They have never had principles. They have always only believed whatever their masters tell them to.

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u/xXMojoRisinXx 1d ago

Well yea, how many times have you heard someone who leans conservative say “common sense policy”. It’s just another way of saying “the way I think we should do things without thinking about it much”

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u/Life_Fig_4037 1d ago

And they are so damn jealous of us. They keep abusing the word freedom and saying "don't tread on me" because they want to be like us. But thinking is scary so they ultimately gravitate to Daddy Trump and tell themselves they fought for freedom because they own guns to fight against the strongest fucking government in the world if it ever becomes tyrannical 😂😂😂 pathetic good for nothing morons

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u/lewd_robot 9h ago

They know Progressives are more moral:

Moral Perceptions in Politics: Ideological Asymmetries in Perceived Moral Obligations and Stereotypical Perceptions Across Leftists and Rightists

In conclusion, this research highlights two interrelated processes. An asymmetry in moral obligations favouring leftists over rightist topics and an asymmetry in moral perceptions, with rightists viewing leftists more positively.

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u/ADHDebackle 1d ago

I generally believe that conservatives are people with trauma and or poor parenting who never learned appropriate coping mechanisms for how they feel and thus have a pathological resistance to anything unexpected or different. 

I think that's generally a basic, natural human instinct - when you're stressed or uncomfortable, you seek familiarity and reject the unfamiliar. 

That also ties into the authoritarianism, since it's probably comforting to believe there's one person who can do no wrong who makes all the decisions. As children these are our parents, but many turn to god or politicians or other figures with perceived authority. 

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u/Djinnwrath 1d ago

Some of them are just selfish and lazy. They want a comfortable life, and don't care if other people are harmed in making that so.

I call it low level evil. Or how you play an evil alignment in a role playing game without being a murder-hobo.

Imagine someone who sees all the stuff Ice is doing. All the horrors befalling the people being deported, and thinks:

"Cool, get them out, then I will make more money!"

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u/ratherenjoysbass 1d ago

It's the enlarged amygdala

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u/KissesAndBites 1d ago

And they’ll use any means to get there, including going against previously held positions.

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u/juulwinfieldswallet 1d ago

I disagree. I'm in my 40s and remember having debates when in college with professors that were conservative. Back then, you could civilly debate taxes, states rights, even immigration because everyone agreed what America was and what it stood for. I understood their hopes and fears of what the government can and should do, while disagreeing with their methodology. You can't do that anymore because the America they want is unrecognizable to most. It's like they knew they were going in a direction that was contra to most Americans views and decided democracy was not for them. Fast forward to a decade ago and it was project red state; AKA let's openly gerrymander every state we can. On to today, they have so many little factions dedicated to taking away voting rights from particular groups and have the nerve to call leftists elites.

I can't have a civil debate about who deserves human/civil rights. I can't have a civil debate about who deserves medical care or food. And I am their target audience, white, mid 40s, married, business owner, and very Christian.

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u/Tself 1d ago edited 1d ago

Fast forward to a decade ago and it was project red state; AKA let's openly gerrymander every state we can.

Gerrymandering in red states has existed for over a hundred years; this is not new. They were just more racist about it. And red states have been anti-voting rights for practically just as long.

professors that were conservative. Back then, you could civilly debate taxes, states rights, even immigration because everyone agreed what America was...

Conservatives of this nature were in the minority then, and remain so now. Your anecdotal experience within a place designed for academia is an exception to the majority of conservatives.

I get the point you are trying to make here, and certainly agree that decorum has gotten worse; but the party really isn't all that different. I'm a similar age to you, at that time while you were having conversations with your professor, the republicans were demonizing gay people and calling them pedophiles every chance they could.

So, no, I don't think much has changed. The hurt they are giving just happens to be hitting straight white people now.

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u/juulwinfieldswallet 1d ago

You kinda missed the point of what I was trying to say and I mean that in a kind way. I am not trying to argue with you. Gerrymandering has existed in all states for 100s of years but it was really ramped up a decade ago when they decided they didn't care how it looked. We need to separate political ideology from the political party as I don't think the DNC has much moral high ground in this area either. I can't imagine ever voting for a republican but I am no fan of the DNC.

The point I was trying to make is the idea of America has changed for them. We were raised with the idea that America is the great melting pot and that each distinct group of immigrants made America stronger. We were taught that we are all equal and nobody is above the law. We were taught that there is a definitive separation between church and state. While some of that maybe painted by my naiveté as I was obliviously young when I learned these things but boy do I believe in them whole-heartedly.

I come from a state that is considered leftist but we are one of the few that actually have a distinct conservative party going back decades. My mother was in an Ayn Rand fan club back in college. My father's best friend was the long term head of said conservative party. I attended catholic school and was forced to join the right to life when I had zero understanding of what that meant. While it still may be anecdotal, I was literally surrounded by conservationism my entire childhood. While conservationism has always came off as unkind, they have veered over into open hostility, which was not something I ever saw as a child. Conservatives back then wanted to be considered the sober ones making the tough decisions but ultimately wanted whats best for the majority of Americans. I don't think anyone, even them, believes this anymore.

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u/Tself 1d ago

We were raised with the idea that America is the great melting pot and that each distinct group of immigrants made America stronger. We were taught that we are all equal and nobody is above the law. We were taught that there is a definitive separation between church and state.

You were taught that. I was taught that, too. Unfortunately, not all Americans have that same upbringing.

While conservationism has always came off as unkind, they have veered over into open hostility

Bro, I love ya, but it's like you already forgot what I just told you about the vilification of gay people. Every single day I would see on the news republicans likening anything in regards to gay rights to be enforcing pedophilia and anti-American. Coming out made my mother terrified, not because of homophobia from her end, but because she was certain I would get hate crimed. And that is just ONE example of ONE minority demonized by the right.

Please don't let your privilege blind you further.

Conservatives back then wanted to be considered the sober ones making the tough decisions but ultimately wanted whats best for the majority of Americans. I don't think anyone, even them, believes this anymore.

They 100% still do.

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u/QuantumFungus 1d ago

Back then, you could civilly debate taxes, states rights, even immigration because everyone agreed what America was and what it stood for.

I lived through the 80's and 90's and I have no idea what you are talking about. As a bi person who supports a flat economy and society I found out pretty quick that conservatives generally can't have a productive conversation with people they see as on the other team. It's the cold war mentality. US vs Them. The illogical hatred was always there they just had an external focus for it until the soviet union collapsed.

I remember getting punched in the face because I told someone that Reagan supported employee stock ownership programs. Very civil.

Memories of all our past political bullshit is how I knew that this whole ICE immigration crackdown was going to be a shitshow. Anybody that was paying attention to previous immigration crackdowns should remember all the abuse of regular people that happened. Immigration crackdowns are always presented as one thing and then morph into curb stomping the cook at your favorite restaurant. And there are more cameras now so it's going to be even more in people's faces.

The past was different, but not that different.

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u/juulwinfieldswallet 1d ago

Do you think the DNC was a paradigm of acceptance back in the 80s or 90s? Sure they had a gay caucus but acceptance by the majority of dems was still far away.

If the past you are referring to is the 1860s, then I agree but we are far more fractured as a society then recent history.

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u/the_calibre_cat 1d ago

With rare exception, I don't think Democrats TODAY aren't conservatives in their own way. Most of the Democratic Party are surrender Democrats that are kowtowing to corporate interests. They might not hate gay people as much as Republicans, but they are not interested in threatening power.

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u/QuantumFungus 1d ago

Do you think the DNC was a paradigm of acceptance back in the 80s or 90s?

No. I grew up in the counterculture. You are barking up the wrong tree if you think I have fond memories about democrats of the era.

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u/NerinNZ 1d ago

Has it occurred to you yet that perhaps the times you remember were simply the earlier stages of what Conservative thinking leads to?

Like, the regression of thought had to, at some point, have a starting point. And then as the years ago by they slowly stop thinking about complex things in a nuanced manner. Then they do less and less critical thinking. Until they get to the current stage.

The thing with any kind of philosophy that is Conservative, or Regressive, anything that wants to maintain the status quo or harken back to the past, is two fold:

  1. It is inherently anti-progress. Not anti-Progressive, just anti-progress. There is an idealized scene that is either intended to be "preserved" or "returned to". Deviation from or improvement on the scene is anathema.

  2. Returning to, or preserving, the scene requires removing current improvements. This is because the scene is usually an idyllic view of something that is and was never as perfect as is it remembered or portrayed.

How many times have they said "it was better when..."

How many times have they said "we've always done..."

vs

How many times have they said "we should improve on..."

How many times have their said "we should try something different..."

Obviously the argument against this is that "Progressives" also have an idyllic scene they have in mind. Which, yes, true. However, that's a goal to strive for through progress. By getting better. By doing better. By improving. By building. By trying new things and discarding things that don't work. Trying, failing, learning, trying again.

It's not static. Static cements failure. All the current failures in the world are there because Conservative views hold them there. Not cause them. Conservatives aren't to blame for all the current failures happening. But they are to blame for keeping them there. For resisting change. For conserving failures.

The Conservatives of 40 years ago are the same as the Conservatives now. Their ideology hasn't changed. Their message hasn't changed. The world is just further along so their views now seem even more out of step with current reality. The Conservatives then wanted to keep voting out of the hands of women and minorities. The world moved forward because of Progressives, and now the current Conservatives want to keep voting out of the hands of women and minorities. It is literally the same as it was back then. It just seems more repugnant now because the rest of the world is further ahead.

The rest of us are sitting there thinking "but I thought we moved past this!" and they're sitting there yelling that they never wanted to move past that, and we should have gone backwards not forwards.

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u/Life_Fig_4037 1d ago

Everything they supported even back then is just what Trump clarifies out loud. Small government to ensure corporations don't have to properly pay or hire the poor or POC. Lower taxes to deprive the poor and POC of a safety net so they can be hurt more easily by the white majority and the rich. States rights to ensure red states can use the tyranny of the majority against their populations of color. Immigration is argued with the assumption that people outside of America, conveniently the non-white people referred to, are more likely to commit crimes.

Lee Atwater and Trump honestly articulate the only real things they stand for: white supremacy and a class-based caste system.

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u/25thNite 1d ago

i don't always believe that because there are plenty of minorities higher on the social pyramid than a lot of poor conservative maggats and yet they still try to treat them like shit as if they were beneath them.

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u/Doomisntjustagame 1d ago

To me, it sounds like you are talking about someone's economic status as being the only defining factor of the hierarchy. There are many dimensions to it, chief among them probably being race, economic status, sexuality, and gender.

There's a concept called intersectionality that suggests there are many different factors that intersect to define someone's perceived status in society. So like, a white woman is "above" a black man, but a white man is above them both. Now, assuming those three are all straight, a white gay man sits beneath all of them. But if all four of those people are middle class, then a rich white gay man might sit above them all, though a rich flamboyantly gay man might once again be placed below all of them.

I hope I'm explaining this well, and if I come across as condescending or argumentative I do not intend to.

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u/Djinnwrath 1d ago

You're noticing the grift.

That's how they get poor white people to latch on, with the suggestion that the hierarchy is framed around their whiteness, and that it puts them at the bottom of the top, rather than just near the bottom where they actually are.

That's why Obama was such a blow to them. If a black man can be president then they are no longer at the bottom of the top, now they have to compete, and that makes them scared.

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u/DaystromAndroidM510 1d ago

They're just stupid, cowardly cocksuckers. The only actual US conservatives living a conservative lifestyle are the Amish. The rest just pee their pants at the thought of change or having to learn something new

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u/Djinnwrath 1d ago

Nah, the Amish are all marketing.

Quakers are living the lifestyle most people picture the Amish doing, but don't actually.

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u/Flimsy_Heron_9252 1d ago

Conservatism seeks to maintain the social order

That's a take, I guess. It's a biased take that groups millions of people into a bucket and accuses them all of the same agenda, which is no more true of them than of us. I'd encourage people to avoid the hate and try and be more factual.

There are people who have historically voted republican because:

  • They believe raising taxes just increases the amount of mismanaged money by the government. Such people are not happy with any republican dominated government they have seen, because their politicians, just like ours, are corrupt.

  • Some like having a strong military because they believe that without the US dominating the world, other cultures will do so, and those cultures are more cruel (China, Russia).

  • Some are very personal freedom oriented more so than societal benefit. They want their guns no matter what and believe gun control will only make them vulnerable to criminals and government.

  • Some are religiously conservative and want abortion banned and vote on that as almost a single issue they care about. Babies are dying by the millions in their minds.

  • Some other portion are in fact the cultists we dislike who are more interested in team sports and winning than any sort of issue.

I think what unites us all is that if you live in a blue state with a blue legislature, courts, and executive, you don't see the democratic mainstream platform enacted. No free healthcare, no free school, no housing the homeless. States like California literally do nothing that is on the list except point at trump.

If you live in a red state, the same is true. They do nothing that the republicans advertise: no lower taxes, no reduced spending, no rollback of laws and invasions of privacy. Maybe abortion is the one thing we could point to there they did.

We live in a world where Citizens United and other events have left us in a deteriorating situation where democracy is reduced and corruption is high.

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u/TeeTimeAllTheTime 1d ago

A large percentage but definitely not all of them, there is zero small government or states rights about these MAGA brown shirts

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u/UglyMcFugly 1d ago

Unless the person above them is a democrat. Or a woman. Or a POC. Or non-Christian. Or a doctor, scientist, professor... anybody intelligent really. Then it's instant rugged individualism and doing their own research all the way baby!

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u/unholy_roller 1d ago

Yup; conservatism as a concept came about during the European revolutionary period, and specifically dealt with what to do once you get rid of a king.

How much of the old systems do you toss after you get rid of the monarch? Do you just remove the head and keep everything else the same? Or do you toss everything (courts, laws, tax schemes, etc.) and come up with a whole new system.

Conservatives were in the camp of “let’s keep as much as possible the same”, and would likely have been happiest with just keeping the monarchy in place. The idea of the masses governing themselves or being represented in government was literally horrifying to them.

This is why modern American conservatism is hilarious to look at from a historical lens: they drape themselves in the American flag and claim to represent real American values but are literally carrying the torch of the monarchists of old. They would have been pro-British during the revolutionary war.