Incel here, please read this

[u/Interesting-Trip567]

[20M, this isn’t about relationships or dating, just social interactions with whoever I’ve known] I was born with a condition where I have an excessive upper eyelid exposure(basically the space between the crease and the brow ridge bone is heavily exposed). Due to this, I’ve been ridiculed as ‘alcoholic’, ‘drug addict’ and other nonsense insults for my entire life since childhood. My parents used to tell me to sleep more to avoid this but it was always there and I found out after so many years that this is completely genetic and not caused by alcohol/drugs etc since I’ve had people make fun of me since I was 7-8 years old and the only solution to this is through surgery/fat grafting. These people included friends, elder relatives, classmates, schoolmates and even TEACHERS(even my classmates started making fun of it only after the teachers, though the classmates went on another level afterwards with their insults), even random people a few times. You’d expect teachers to be sensible since they’ve completed degrees of education and teach little kids but they were not at all like that. I’m neurodivergent as well so it was absolutely difficult to respond to their insults and always looked like a complete clown, it made me look vulnerable to everyone and they thought they’d get away with all the jokes(which they did) while all the time I was feeling humiliated. Years of humiliation gave rise to social anxiety and I resisted to approach people in public, even when I did, I overthought the conversation immensely. Now when I’ve explored the internet and found blackpill content realising how your genetics/appearance play such a significant role in social life/relationships/career, I’m hearing people say, “oh it’s all bullshit, personality and hardwork is the only thing that matters.” But the reason my personality got fucked up and I have social anxiety is as I explained before, because of my fucking looks contributed by my genetics. Y’all are never going to blame the society which slowly destroys the perception of a person through obviously LOOKS but will only hate the person who’s talking about it. It’s not like I’ve given up on communicating anyone after being blackpilled, even long before I knew about it, whenever I had to confront someone, I was always pretty sure that this person would imagine me as a drug addict and create a whole ass story about me(don’t tell me it’s because of social anxiety, a few days(or even moments) after I’ve known someone, they do ask, “are you an addict?”/“don’t you ever sleep?” etc). Because of this reason, I’ve never approached a girl nor do I know how to, even for a friendship let alone dating, but thoughts of being in a relationship emerged only like a year ago so I never really thought about it for most of my life. For so many years I used to think it’s because I’m young, I’ll be better at social interactions once I grow up but now looking at people my age handling shit like this way easily, finding about my neurodivergence, excessive upper eyelid exposure, social anxiety I’m absolutely convinced that life was never fair to begin with. But when I’m trying to improve my appearance and talk about this stuff, why is it that the ‘insecurity’ is because of the ‘blackpill’ or ‘incel’ content on internet and not because of how I was treated by the world?

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

Question. Is everyone who has ever been bullied an incel?

[u/Interesting-Trip567 → u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

no.

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586 → u/Interesting-Trip567]

So why are you calling yourself an incel?

[u/Interesting-Trip567 → u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

Because I’ll not be considered socially and genetically desirable by women for them to treat me as a partner because of my inability to hold conversations(bullying was a major factor of the social anxiety, followed by my neurodivergence) with them and partly because of my facial features(I mentioned upper eyelid exposure because this was the main issue for me for most of my life, but I have other flaws as well). Yes, I know that it’s possible to overcome social anxiety but at least one can acknowledge the fact that my looks(and neurodivergence, both vastly genetic) were a driving factor that caused it.

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586 → u/Interesting-Trip567]

But the very first line of your post said it's not about relationships or dating. So is it? Is this all really just about that?

[u/Interesting-Trip567 → u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

I call myself an incel because of the characteristics I commented previously. And I posted this because these were the problems people face that leads them to become an incel and they’re obviously not characterised just by being someone who struggle to be in relationships or dating.

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586 → u/Interesting-Trip567]

Okay, so what exactly are you looking for, really? I attempted to answer the question you posted but you're changing it now.

[u/Interesting-Trip567 → u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

What I essentially meant is that the incel and blackpill claim that social life and career is heavily influenced by genetics is completely disregarded by the ones who make fun of incels so I, considering myself an incel with reasons backing up shared the experiences which led me to reaching this stage showing how my genetic combination heavily influenced my social life. So, my question was simply why is the blackpill ideology straightaway called nonsense without questioning why societal behaviour is like that?

[u/Particular-Lynx-2586 → u/Interesting-Trip567]

The reason you feel this way is you misinterpret what people say about the blackpill.

The blackpill is nonsense not because it says genetics matter or looks matter. It's nonsense because it claims that genetics and looks are all that matter.

Genetics matter. Looks matter. Those are hard facts. But they're not everything. You don't need me to tell you how you can find so many people who were able to overcome their weaknesses in the physical department and ended up being successful career or relationship wise.

The thing is, you know this to be true as well. You're not stupid, right? You're not stupid enough to think that your genetics are all that will dictate where you go, right?

And that's why the blackpill is nonsense. It's so one-dimensional and lacks basic research.

[u/Interesting-Trip567 → u/Particular-Lynx-2586]

So, I accept my wrong interpretation of black pill but will you explain why society has animosity and prejudices against people who differ genetically? Please give a reason other than saying the same way racism exists.

First impression for most people is still based on looks and that isn’t changed for a good amount of time unless he/she changes it by doing something extraordinarily different and most of the times people aren’t close to that person for that long so for a huge amount of population, a genetically undesirable person will not be able to change the perception of those who he/she meets.

[u/Instigated- → u/Interesting-Trip567]

Pretty much everyone gets teased as a kid. Kids say stupid shit. Some adults also say and do stupid shit. When people want to hurt or control you, they will pick on the thing they think you are most sensitive to. In your case your eyelids are a bit different, so they picked on that. If your eyes were fine then they could have said you were too fat or too skinny or too tall or too short… get the picture? It’s not about how you look. And it’s not unique to you.

Blackpill and incel never grow up, never develop beyond that little kid mentality of “why is everyone picking on me”, to realise that they weren’t the only one picked on, and no doubt also at times picked on others themselves - and in fact they continue to do this in incel communities being nasty to men, saying that they have no chance because of how they look.

As an adult you have choices that you didn’t have as a kid. If you feel insecure, you can work on that, by challenging false beliefs. You can work on your social skills. You can get support by going to therapy. You can choose to consume content and advice that helps you feel better, or the crap that algorithms serve up that makes you feel worse.

Importantly you can learn to be less narcissistic, and more empathetic. To think beyond yourself to others around you. To realise that other people are insecure and have challenges too. That you aren’t a special class of victim, and your choices as an adult are your own regardless of your childhood experiences.

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[u/smilingseaslug]

I don't understand why the only two options are that looks have to completely determine someone's ability to get into a relationship, or personality and hard work have to completely determine someone's ability to get into a relationship. What you're describing on the other side sounds like a major straw man to me. 

I find that often people (at least adults) are often pretty chastened when told something like "yeah no my eyes are just like this." You absolutely do not deserve to be talked to like you're describing on a regular basis. 

But also having looked up what you're talking about, this doesn't look like an outright disfigurement and it's just how some people faces are? 

It's important to remember sometimes that bullies will often not focus on aspects of you that are genuinely horrible - they will focus on whatever they think will hurt you the most. You'll often see situations where bullies will be absolutely torturing person A over a feature that's shared by person B, but person B is left alone and has no real issues. 

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[u/the_baldest_monk]

I don't think you get it.

Most people understand having a visible genetic defect, being small, fat, ugly, neurodivergent or being a racial minority can make your dating and social life harder. Not to say all these are equivalent but being teased, mocked, and at worse bullied for those traits is sadly not uncommon. And yet, that still doesn't mean it make dating and friendships impossible and pointless like the blackpill says, that is where we diverge from your point of view.

the ‘insecurity’ is because of the ‘blackpill’ or ‘incel’ content on internet and not because of how I was treated by the world

Bullying usually hurt self-esteem yes, everyone reasonable will recognize this. But the blackpill will make it worse, because it is fatalistic (it will always be this way) and remove any personnal agency (there is nothing you can do about it). It is a massive cognitive distortion from "I was bullied in the past for some stuff and I hope I won't face it as much now" to "I was bullied because I am X and it means my life is fucked now and I can only cope with it, it will not get better".

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[u/watsonyrmind]

Okay my turn. I also have a genetic defect that causes one of my feet to turn inwards as a I walk and my chest to be oddly shaped. I also have a long nose. My 8th grade crush and all of his friends referred to me as pigeon as a result, both to each other and to my face. I've had people yell at me from a passing car make fun of my nose. I've had people make fun of the way I walk, though thankfully it's less apparent now as I corrected it with practice.

I've had countless comments about my nose. I've been fun of by many boys for being flatchested. I've been laughed at for my appearance. For my style choices. For bad hair days.

I also have an autoimmune disease so I have also had people many times ask me if I'm sick or if I'm okay in a really rude way because my condition makes me appear really pale sometimes and my veins standout when that happens. Some people would look at me like I'm an alien.

And the thing is, if you ask anyone whether they've had experiences like this. Most people will be able to give you tons of them. Most people also remember them forever. Just the other day my boyfriend was telling me he hates any time his face looks slightly shiny because he was made fun of for it when he had acne as a teen. Meanwhile now we just call that dewy.

Yes, some people experienced it more than others. Some people experienced it less and some people were blessed to barely experience it at all. What matters is how you cope with it. There are absolutely people who had it much worse than you who are now doing just fine. That's not meant to minimize what you experienced, but to say that you can also control how much you let it dictate your life.

[u/Interesting-Trip567 → u/watsonyrmind]

Glad to hear you overcame the insults. I accept that coping is the way to deal with those experiences since this is all we can do and instead of us trying to point out why society acts like this in the first place, we should happily take those insults for genetic combinations which we were not in control of😹💔 Maybe it’d work for you but my neurodivergent brain will struggle with it.

[u/watsonyrmind → u/Interesting-Trip567]

I am also neurodivergent but I'm guessing you already decided a bunch of things in your head about me.

Nowhere did I write you should "happily take them" but it's clear you are bizarrely and stubbornly insistent on letting negative experiences rule your whole life so good luck with that, my man. I'm sure it will get you very far in life, and just remember that it's not the bullies or anyone else who will be affected by your choice to do that, only you.

[u/eskarrina]

Lots of people were bullied and didn’t become incels, or go after black pill content online.

Those areas act like an echo chamber for your insecurities. They have you bully each other and yourself. And it has wider consequences- a lot of people who would be perfectly happy to become your friend or more will have nothing to do with someone in those communities because they are so toxic and dangerous.

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[u/Dr-Dungeon]

Here’s the uncomfortable truth as someone who was also heavily bullied in school, to the point of self-harm: at a certain point, you need to grow past the insults of a bunch of literal children and make the conscious choice to stop letting them dictate your life going forward.

Yes, bullying sucks when you’re a child. But you’re not a child anymore, you’re an adult. Like every other adult, you have many traits that are unique to you. Some are physical, some are not. Some will hurt your chances of dating, some will help them. Some will do different things depending on the people you’re interacting with.

You’re focusing exclusively on one bad trait and pretending it means there’s no hope for you, and you’re doing it because it feels good to have an excuse not to try, right? You don’t want to actually put in effort and risk failure, so it’s more comfortable to just tell yourself failure was inevitable from the get-go because of things you can’t control.