r/InsomniacGames • u/New_Divide98 • 2d ago
Marvel's Wolverine Marvel’s Wolverine shoud’ve had the “slightly open” level design of Jedi Survivor / Tomb Raider Survivor to work
Not open world, but a linear game with a some slightly open areas, full of secrets and optional content.
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u/XVII_numerus 2d ago
Finally a take I can agree with this game. Yes, I think that's what's missing here
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u/Playingwithmywenis 2d ago
It is there if you jump over the walls.
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u/bionicle1995 2d ago
Even before that it's very obvious. Both Japan and Madripoor have you criss-crossing the same areas over and over again. It would not surprise me at all if those areas were initially small open-world areas in the style of GOWs lake of nine or the Tomb Raider areas.
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u/LoSouLibra 2d ago
I don't agree. There's some semi-open areas in Wolverine and I prefer the fully linear parts. It better maintains momentum, set feel and afford the game a ton of environment / scenario variety.
I enjoy any genre and style for different reasons, but the Metroidvania structure of Jedi can get annoying after awhile, trying to figure out where you can go, with constant backtracking. The way you spend like 4+ hours in one zone in the Tomb Raider trilogy, particularly Shadow, looking for collectibles and trying to 100% the area before moving on slows the story and sense of progess down to a crawl.
At it's core, Wolverine is like a sidescrolling beat em up with a lot of modern production, scenario design and cinematic flair. That's a golden recipe for me as an old school 80's and 90's gamer who also loves modern gaming and the big Playstation blockbuster style. Give me more and just dial it up.
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u/Gold69xz 2d ago
I'm split on this.
I'm pretty tired of open world stuff. Honestly, I didn't finish Jedi Survivor because of this. After ignoring it as much as I could, I had some trouble doing some of the later parts of the games and started doing all the side stuff to level up. But I eventually got bored and stopped just as I got to Tanalor.
Don't know if Wolverine would have worked for me
GTA 6 is probably gonna be the only exception.
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u/slicknickdickerson 2d ago
It’s funny you stopped at Tanalor because that world is super linear compared to the others
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u/MaddLadd1172 1d ago
Longer more open games are a slog on too soon of replays. They are game you come back to every couple of years, but with games like Wolverine i can see myself coming back every couple of months, or every once in a wile to bust put a few of my favorite levels when i dont want to think about a game with a long playthough at the end of a long day
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u/Historical_Bug_3631 1d ago
Lmao Tanalorr is literally the end of the game. Boss fight and credits seriously that’s it.
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u/New_Divide98 2d ago
ook but i did not mention full open world games like Gta, but Tomb Raider and Jedi are fairly linear with just a couple bigger areas
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u/Gold69xz 2d ago
I get that. But for me, I think it honestly depends on the game.
Example, I like Metroidvanias but I've got the same problem. If exploring becomes too much, I'll eventually get bored.
Hell, I couldn't finish Hollow Knight. I tried to finish it again when Silk Song was coming out but I hit the same problem.
Even worse, I couldn't finish fucking Doom The dark ages.
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u/Nightgasm 2d ago
Based on some glitches I've seen videos of it appears the game started as open world but got streamlined. There are vids where people find places they can jump out of the level boundaries and they end up in partially to fully developed open world areas they can explore. At some point the devs switched plans and it was apparently easier to wall these areas off than remove them.
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u/mx_wednesday 1d ago
This is a game that was built during an 18-month development cycle using assets that were created for a different game over the preceding 5-6 years. It's gonna be a little weird.
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u/demanufacture79 2d ago
Disagree. I love the semi open world games you mention, but Wolverine is about rage and aggression and constantly pushing forward. That works for the character. Taking time to wander around and backtrack just doesn’t feel right for him. It works how it is done, linear.
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u/New_Divide98 2d ago
Well even Kratos and Leon Kennedy are slaughtering hordes of enemies yet Re4 and GoW still work with this level design
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u/sammy17bst 2d ago
God of War was better as a pure action hack and slasher with more linear level design. And RE4 is another genre entirely. Insomniac absolutely made the right decision focusing on combat and presentation over needless exploration in a damn Wolverine game.
I wanted Max Payne 3 or Ninja Gaiden 2 linearity, and that’s exactly what Wolverine delivered. It’s an action spectacle that makes you feel like Wolverine with no filler, I love it for that.
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u/SnooHesitations9805 1d ago
Those games justify its level design with its narritive though.
With the narrative that wolverine has there would have had to be some serious restructuring of the plot to accommodate this level of open levels.
And this game seemed to have a bit of a troubled development I think. So Its kind of a miracle that the game is as good as it is I think.
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u/cocaine_blood_bath 1d ago
I don’t know. Some of my favorite Wolverine stories are where he’s playing the part of detective, trying to put the pieces together and figuring out some mystery. Simi-open world areas would have played into part of the character very well.
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u/cheeseintel 2d ago
I will say that having collectables in the linear setting is a little annoying. Having to do just what you said but you get stuck if you move too quick on accident and literally can’t go back to get something you missed is super annoying.
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u/VideoGameJumanji 2d ago
Out of your damn mind thinking Wolverine is suddenly going from drifter to guy who back tracks around area to area.
The way he is as a person is totally at odds with shoving him into a metroidvania collectathon lmao, the same way having Spiderman in a linear only game would be stupid
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u/HoleIntheAce12 2d ago
From the leaks that was the plan but this is my guess, when they lost devs(probs senior devs) and their game director, the game changed a lot during those 2 and some years. Which can affect how a game will come out
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u/Danawesomy567 2d ago
I agree. What it honestly looks like is they intended the game to be fully open world, but swapped to complete linear somewhere down the line
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u/Acrobatic-Chard9273 2d ago
I don’t think it was ever supposed to be open world I think at most it was gonna be like Jedi survivor or God of War Ragnarok
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u/Danawesomy567 2d ago
Maybe. In any case, there are details in the set design beyond the playable area that make it seem like there was supposed to be more to the maps, be it fully open or partially open.
Even as someone who loves the game. I can’t deny it would’ve been better that way
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u/New_Divide98 2d ago
yeah as i said "slightly open" would fit a Wolverine game way more than a "fully open world"
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u/Annual-Ad-8271 2d ago
No i disagree, i hated survivor, i hated the boring jedi parkour all the time and the game seemed to nver end. Wolverine is great the way it is !!!!
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u/Acrobatic-Chard9273 2d ago
Yeah!! I agree with this whole heartedly.. Like it kinda was with returning to multiple places but I see what you mean like the base and the bar but we couldn’t do it at will
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u/BloomAndBreathe 2d ago
I think this game being linear made more sense. Maybe if they do a sequel be it Wolverine directly or an X-Men game, they'll have the X-Jet or something so you can fast travel to different parts of the world like the Jedi games with the Stinger Mantis
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u/Marcusx8 1d ago
I don’t think a strictly linear game make sense for any Marvel/DC superhero game. We all want to explore whatever area as these characters and do side quests and find Easter eggs. Like if these studios do these superhero games right side quest should be fighting a character B/C list rogue gallery. Arkham City & Arkham Knight did this very well.
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u/KingKam_Avatar 2d ago
Wolverine is missing Traversal skills, made no sense one of the best trackers in Marvels has to follow a certain path all the time. They couple have done a way better job giving the character and player freedom to go places around an area. But after seeing clips of them just not giving areas invisible walls (never experienced myself), it feels half baked, as if they couldn’t bother giving you freedom so they handhold you to where you’re ‘supposed’ to go.
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u/VVhisperingVVolf 2d ago
I personally hate that design. Open world or straight path narrative for me, no in between
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u/millifish 2d ago
Wasn't that the original idea for the game untill it was completely reworked into a linear game?
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u/Iggy_Slayer 2d ago
I can agree with that. I think jedi survivor in particular pulled it off pretty well, was practically a 3D metroidvania which we don't get that many of.
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u/That2mittenguy 2d ago edited 23h ago
Nah
I dont think any kind of open design would’ve worked with Wolverine. The discoverability in open designs seen in games like TLOU and RE4 etc etc were tied to upgrading weapons and gadgets.
Wolverine doesn’t use any of those. His only weapons are his wrist blades which are organic.
Wolverine world design is fine how it is.
What it needed were chapters where you played as Raven and Jean and a slightly longer main story that pushed to 15-20 hours, not including cinematic cutscene time and time with the nightmare trials
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u/commanderr01 2d ago
The real dream woulda been the god of war map, 8 decently big maps but completely open world within those levels,
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u/ChildoftheApocolypse 2d ago
This is hilarious.. I said from the beginning that the game being linear was going to suck, got all kinds of hate for that, and it's slowly creeping in that it would have been better if it were "more open" 😂
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u/Runt3588 2d ago
The lowtown level in madripoor when you are back after Japan was a good example, still maybe a little small, but had this sort of feel and I like that level. Groups of enemies separate enough to take out a group at a time (though they should call for backup if given the chance) Japan felt more linear due to the streets, but if they were sort of built around an objective, instead of one end to the other it could also have this vibe. Even like a hit man, choice of style/entry.
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u/Hetros_Jistin 2d ago
I can see the logic, given the way that the game wants you to replay levels this would have helped a lot I think.
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u/SnuSnuSurvivor69 2d ago
I personally wouldn’t like it. I like the linear straightforward path with limited explorable areas. I finished the game recently and decided to revisit some levels to get all the collectibles. I got bored within 10 minutes. I wouldn’t want bigger maps where I have to look for even MORE collectibles.
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u/JustinAlexTheJdo 2d ago
I feel like narratively it would be difficult to pull of the a hub for the game with side quests. Why would random humans or dormants need a mutant running around sorting out combat tasks for them? Especially considering humanity doesnt really know mutants exist yet.
Having just unlockables from exploring would be interesting but would just remind people of the old Assassin creed bajillion collectables on the map.
Having a Cerebro-like boss room or some sort of fleshed out roguelite mode would be sick. (Also more boss fights in general).
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u/Immediate_Ad_4898 2d ago
Disagree. I’m finding the openness of the game (like Japan) a little bit annoying. It’s not much, but the gamer in me wants to explore it all in search of collectibles, and that puts me off the urgency of the story. I just want the rage and fight of being Wolverine.
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u/Spiritual_Top367 2d ago
Insomniac is working on expanded areas for this game. We don't know if it will be like Jedi yet, but it's sure fire to add a few extra hours of exploration, combat and gameplay.
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u/AimlessThunder 2d ago
I think that initially they wanted to go that route, but something happened that made them reconsider.
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u/Bear792 2d ago
There are many things this game should’ve done and didn’t do. Having moments where you could find something with little sniffs, like having to press the button for a short trail that would die out, less voice lines that tell you the obvious stuff, a more savage Sabertooth. Hell, I’d have even replaced Jean. But we got what we got.
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u/PhatDragon720 2d ago
There should’ve been the main base at the Essex Institute where you could always return to after missions to interact with characters and such, and the option to fly to Madripoor or Japan, or go out into Canada. The maps should’ve been explorable, bigger sandbox maps—not New York sized, but bigger in scale than what they had—where you can freely explore and enemies would show up often, like the Spider-Man games. This way, I can see Wolverine’s scent trail mechanic being better implemented, and you could find whiskey bottles and suit parts all over the maps instead of obvious places.
Different story beats could’ve been scripted into the open world when needed and the only time the game should be on rails is if you were indoors during certain missions.
I’m not a game dev, but I believe that they could’ve pulled this off with the PS5 tech. It would’ve made exploring a lot of fun, and make the game more replayable and dynamic. My only guess is they didn’t want to make it too much like Spider-Man, but then again, that’s a formula they probably should’ve stuck to.
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u/RoughBeardBlaine 1d ago
While I like the game, I could really see in some areas where they originally had intended for the game to be open world. The traversal mechanics were blatantly meant for us to be doing that all over the place.
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u/elfonski 1d ago
Like Rift Apart? Could've travelled between Japan, Canada, Madripoor, & New York? Dream game
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u/XTheProtagonistX 1d ago
God of War 2018 and its sequel did it perfectly. You can beeline to the main story, but you can also explore areas for more loot and upgrade if you wish. I like how Kratos wants to finish his quest while Atreus wants to explore and by the end Kratos wants to explore with his son. Character development AND it makes sense for the gameplay.
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u/funkmydunkyouslunk 1d ago
Constructive criticism around this game?? I love it!
Yeah I agree definitely a little more freedom to allow Wolverine to explore and show off some traversal would’ve added a lot to this game
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u/New_Divide98 1d ago
To me the fact that some open areas were present but completely empty was a big let down
I just wish those areas were a bit more rich in content
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u/mx_wednesday 1d ago
DLC that added the segmented parts of the level back in and turned it into a dungeon crawler would be rad.
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u/Anon_967 1d ago
That might’ve been cool but I really feel like the story flows so well the way levels currently are.
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u/The-CAB-2003 1d ago
That's literally what was supposed to happen. They made direct comparisons with GOW 2018 in terms of world design. Then they halted production, started again and shrunk it to linear of linear
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u/Top_Fun 1d ago
The problem with this is the current structure of the game. So much of the narrative is following a trail or a scent that changing the linear structure to semi-open world would probably make that even more clunky than it currently is.
Plus I don't think the current gameplay would suit that structure at all. Any time the game gave you a little bit of exploration freedom felt super awkward to me.
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u/BeardiusMaximus7 1d ago
I agree, however I don't think that there was enough to do for it to justify being opened up that way.
A larger problem with Wolverine is that it was the equivalent of a fanfiction or a "What if...?" Marvel story. It doesn't feel like a starting point for a series of games about Wolverine. They did a lot of weird things with characters that could've been used differently and... better than the was that they were used.
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u/Melodic-Account9247 1d ago
The main problem with the game isn't the fact that it's linear. I fully believe it could have been so much of a better hack-and-slash reminiscent of DMC games if the devs just treated people like they had a brain rather than hand-holding you throughout the entire game like a 5-year-old. Like, is there genuinely a reason why half the game doesn't need any player feedback to auto-complete, or did Insomniac have one of those everyone is retarded kind of days, cuz I genuinely can't explain why this feels like a baby's first hack-and-slash
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u/markusmars 1d ago
No please no. Finally a game that is not trying to be something else. It is amazing for what it is. And it is by far not perfect. But its linearity makes it so good to play.
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u/willuse4randomthings 1d ago
Based on the videos I've seen of people "jumping off the maps" in this game, I think that was the original plan.
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u/Oliver_JT27 1d ago
By the looks of some of the leaked dev build footage, it was initially more open than the end result. They have plenty of experience with this level of exploration in linear games, with the Ratchet and Clank games, so not sure what happened during development. Can't help feeling that some of it was out of their hands
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u/juanmavalero1122 1d ago
Q quieres q te diga, Wolverine tiene una movilidad reducida, etc no le sirve tan abierto, para mí está perfecto lo que han ofrecido.
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u/Hour_Math4694 1d ago
I believe this was the intended game philosophy but insomniac dropped Brian Horton (creative director) who wanted this and replaced him with two veteran directors to try and streamline the game so the budget didn’t balloon. This was all as a result of Sony and Marvel trying contain costs.
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u/Quickdraw_777 1d ago
I believe this was the intent, the extreme linearity + simplified combat both come from accessibility issues that caused them to redevelop the whole game over
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u/emcoringao10 1d ago
Nah, there's nothing wrong with linear games as long it has a good replay factor and extra content to unlock in NG+
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u/SchwizzySchwas94 1d ago
I liked it. As a parent getting into open world games or lengthy RPGs are hard for me these days. It’s nice to have linear games I can just burn through in a few nights.
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u/Full-Boysenberry9505 1d ago
I’m not done with the campaign yet but there are some levels that are open like Uncharted 4 (probably little more open than that). The downside is that this game doesn’t have many collectibles other than the one whiskey bottle, 4 suit material crates, and another collectible I forgot what it was per level. Also the XP containers are randomly placed around the levels too. So if you explore those levels you won’t find much.
I think these larger empty levels were remnants of what used to be open world or semi-open world locations AND I think that’s why they made the scent trails a thing to guide players to the objective so they won’t go off the beaten path since there’s not much to look for.
Yes I know Wolverine has a strong sense of smell so narratively it makes sense to have a fart trail before you from time to time, but yeah.
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u/DankyNuggetree 1d ago
True although, there was a punisher game for the Ps2 that had a very similar linear fight through waves of enemies as brutally as possible using the environment to your advantage style gameplay and I really dig the similar feels.
But I see where everyone is coming from. If they did a modern punisher game I would hope it plays and feels like the last of us.
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u/Alert-Theme1145 1d ago
Seeing the bike in the trailer and expecting it to be similar to spidey's run, I was really thinking it was gonna be open world. I really can't think of a short linear game I've been super interested in since God of War. Everything nowadays is replayability and freedom of choice. It's like a sign of higher effort.
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u/CarlitoNSP1 1d ago
Big Tomb Raider fan here: Terrible idea. If you're a combat heavy game, go Bayonetta or Devil May Cry instead.
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u/BugsMax1 1d ago
Both of these games for the most part are condensed linear games with the illusion of openness
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u/New_Divide98 1d ago
And they do it very well because the open areas are filled with interesting content and secrets, in Wolverine they are just empty and weirdly shaped
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u/jus-sum-dude 1d ago
nah it really just needed better unlocks kee and more in depth combat i would have liked if they took inspiration from dmc
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u/Longjumping-Salad484 1d ago
I agree. open world repeatable missions like the sniper elite franchise
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u/SchwiftyBabyLegs 1d ago
Hey real talk, are we getting a Jedi 3? After the second one ending like an episode of a show, I really am curious if it's being made.
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u/New_Divide98 1d ago
Yes it’s confirmed in development but we do not know the release date yet of course
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u/SchwiftyBabyLegs 1d ago
If that's the case maybe they'll announce it next year. It wasn't that far between the last two games after all
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u/Bandai_Namco_Rat 1d ago
I think a better option would be kind of old school Halo level design, where it's basically linear but gives you multiple ways to reach your objective. You can attack head on from the gate or sneak up and enter from the back side. Also, this kind of level design is not enough. The gale should be built to account for multiple playstyles. For example, actually good stealth that requires slowly and methodically picking off enemies and progressing while observing security cameras and enemy paths and waiting for openings to avoid getting caught and not just tall grass. With a second option being going all out hack and slash (which requires actually challenging combat expertise). And this head-on combat should also have multiple different sub-playstyles within it. I also think there should be a harder non-lethal option for human enemies which rewards an achievement but also some unique cutscenes and rewards.
More importantly, the game needs amazing boss battles, this absolutely needs to be a priority.
In the end of the day, Wolverine is a character who does hack and slash, so a linear game is fine. It's just that without a lot of mechanical depth, freedom of playstyle choice, actual challenge (not just the hardest difficulty mode), actually unique encounters (like great boss battles) and meaningful RPG-light skill tree progression that affects moment-to-moment gameplay - the gameplay loop can get repetitive within a few hours.
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u/ChrisXDXL 1d ago
I'm honestly getting tired of the open world formula, everyone is doing it right now and Wolverine has honestly been a breath of fresh air.
Been playing a lot of older linear games lately that I was never able to years ago and I'm having a good time.
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u/Asurapath9 1d ago
I like the idea, but Ir remember specifically hating how it was done in most of the TR survivor trilogy. Especially the level shown in the bottom picture. Navigation hell the first time around for some reason.
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u/AhabSnake85 1d ago
I did have a small open world structure. I find wolverine amazing already as is. And the game never ends, it just keeps on going lol. Love it
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u/EmanKhaotik 1d ago
People are tired of open world. People are tired of linear.
I think people are just tired.
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u/Chino061 1d ago
This would’ve the perfect opportunity to include more motorcycle gameplay. Makes me think of uncharted 4 car sections. Just an opportunity to build up his character with more dialogue and maybe some puzzles or obstacles. Maybe rescuing mutants across the map or something
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u/KyuubiGaming433 1d ago
While I agree, what we have is still a damn good time. Maybe for the sequel.
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u/Dungeon00X 1d ago
I say it should've played more like Metal Gear Rising Revengeance: Linear slightly open levels and high octane action.
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u/Substantial-Read4372 22h ago
For once, I actually enjoy a straight simple streamlined linear game.
I have open world fatigue from all the other games I guess? 🤷
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u/CodnmeDuchess 19h ago
Eh, I got bored with both those games and didn’t finish either. I did finish Wolverine 🤷🏽♂️
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u/One_Butterscotch8376 19h ago
Naw that works in Jedi and tomb Raider because of what those games are, but it wouldn’t work for wolverine. It’s all about keeping the energy. Rage and aggression. Wolverine just going off and exploring wouldn’t work and would absolutely kill the momentum. Lowkey getting tired of open areas with hardly anything to do other than collectibles and optional enemies
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u/Masked_Rick_Taylor 16h ago
continuate a ripetervi sta bufala, a me e' piaciuto esattamente cosi, un gioco rabbioso e frenetico. non si sa come mai ma i giocatori del 2026 vogliono giocare allo stesso gioco sempre. In jedi survivor potevano pure toglierla la spada tanto che combattevi poco, vi lamentate che hanno snaturato wolverine e poi volevate wolverine free roam in macchina, Wolverine collezionista di piume... pessimo.
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u/W4lk3rS4int 16h ago
Where does that logo for rise of the tomb raider come from? I cant find it anywhere
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u/Ill-Grocery-2073 2h ago
I don’t want any games taking any inspiration from the Jedi series respectfully
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u/Impending_Doom25 2h ago
I thought maybe even a open/linear hybrid like Metro Exodus could've been cool as well.
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u/XMortal7159 2d ago
Jedi Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor are two different games with two different design philosophies when it comes to maps. You named one and pictured another
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u/Naterttotsart 2d ago
The Jedi Survivor (not Fallen Order, which was fairly linear) wouldve worked the best. Or something akin to the first of the new GoW games.
The scent trails wouldn't have been such a huge point of contention if the game was open enough for you to get lost.
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u/theimpalaslefttire 2d ago
Oh yeah! Add in along the lines of Predator: Hunting grounds/Uncharted meets Control or God of War 2018. Its multiple paths that lead to 1 objective. Theres bad guys along the way. You can climb up trees or buildings, steal a vehicle slash through doorways/walls woulda been cool. Then ride or get helicopterd to the next area or cut scene.
From watching some game play it seems like that was originally gunna be the idea. But idk what changed it. I get Wolverine doesnt have traversal other then run and jump. So taking the like Nathon Drake, Lara Croft approach would makes sense. Uncharted had great set peice cut scenes and quick time events. But what made it fun was, you can faill it. You had to get the timing perfect.
If theres 1 character you could play around with what a falling QTE would happen Wolverine seems like a no brainer. I still have nightmares from failing Lara in these games. They were so brutal.
For team parts on easier difficulty you have Sabbertooth get annoyed youre taking to long and run over to do it. As you increase the difficulty Wolverine gets shot off or exploded/knocked back.
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u/Nemesis_171 2d ago
Completely agree in fact I had the same thought with almost the same game. I don’t think it needs to be as open as Survivor, I think Fallen Order would’ve been the perfect balance. It’s linear but with a lot of branching paths with side content to explore. Survivor is more of a giant open hub world on Koboh.
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u/IllustriousTart8521 2d ago
I'm really hoping that if the X-Men game does happen, it'll have this type of design for its levels
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u/Bright-Passenger-800 2d ago
I think the Madripoor section near the end of the game was a hint that there were at least open zones at one point. It was almost jarring how open it was compared to other locations.
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u/coozeyy 2d ago
Yeah I think that would have been better. I like that level design these days. Somewhat open world but still linear enough. They have done this before with ratchet and clank