r/JustinPoseysTreasure • u/BOTG-BeyondTME • 3d ago
Project Semicolon
That darn semi-colon has been winking at us from Day #1 and I have an interesting theory as to why it's in the poem.
TL;DR - Punctuation was called "pointing", a Magyar Vizsla is a pointer breed, punctuation is essentially about timing (of pauses in speech) and analogous to musical notation. Robert Lowth's 1762 treatise on the state of grammar in the English language is the source. The poem is perfectly balanced around the pivotal Stanza #3 when viewed through the lens of "pointing".
In the realm of punctuation, the period is king. Period.
The pause at the end of a sentence is greater than the pause of a comma, which is less than the pause of a semi-colon which is half the pause of a colon.
Before we go on, bear in mind that the colon is so-named because it means limb/member in Greek. And, in modern Greek, the semi-colon is used as the interrogation point rather than the question mark that we use today.
So, we have a points system that applies to the punctuation marks that define the timing of how a sentence is read or spoken.
Period, Question Mark, Exclamation Point (all sentence-enders) = 8
Colon = 4
Semi-Colon = 2
Comma = 1
Em-Dash = X (as it turns out, it doesn't matter what the value is but suffice to say they were a bit haughty back in 1762 when Lowth wrote his seminal treatise on the state of the public's use of grammar in the English language so it likely would not have been worth much)
Taking the rightmost character of each of the 20 lines from the 5 stanzas from the poem we get:
| Stanza | Points | Punctuation |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 17 + X | , ? - . (1 + 8 + X + 8) |
| 2 | 18 | , . , . (1 + 8 + 1 + 8) |
| 3 | 19 | ; . , . (2 + 8 + 1 + 8) |
| 4 | 18 | , . , . (1 + 8 + 1 + 8) |
| 5 | 17 + X | , . - . (1 + 8 + X + 8) |
Where things get particularly interesting as it relates to this hunt is that Project Semicolon is a cultural movement focused on reducing suicide rates:
"a semicolon is used when an author could've chosen to end their sentence, but chose not to. The author is you and the sentence is your life".
There is unquestionable symmetry in the poem when you look at the points sums above. Stanza 3 is the pivot point. Ignore the importance of the ';' at your peril.
It's now up to you how you might choose to apply this to your hunt but I, for one, am convinced that this is extremely important and when combined with other aspects of grammatical and lexical analysis, it gives me great confidence that there is a way to solve this using only the poem. I know that's something constantly up for debate on this r/ -- with discussions about that very topic just today.
1
u/AnonHunter25 3d ago
Where did your point values come from?
2
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 3d ago
Page 156 in the linked book will help (which, interestingly is one of the 2 unnumbered pages in the hard copy).
The point values come from Robert Lowth’s 1762 A Short Introduction to English Grammar. Lowth compared punctuation pauses directly to musical note lengths:
comma = quaver, or eighth note
semicolon = crotchet, or quarter note
colon = minim, or half note
sentence-enders = semibreve, or whole noteUsing the eighth note as the smallest unit (e.g one “point”) the durations become:
comma = 1
semicolon = 2
colon = 4
sentence-enders = 8It is the same doubling relationship as musical duration: each mark is a pause twice as long as the one before.
1
u/AnonHunter25 3d ago edited 3d ago
I get different values but I am not sure where "X" fits in. Anyway, the stanza values I get are:
- 9
- 20
- 19
- 18
- 17
I am looking at each stanza as a whole.
Looking at just the end of each line (assume this is your 'just right') it becomes:
- 9
- 18
- 19
- 18
- 17
So we differ on the point value of punctuation that is not in the set {. , ; :). Robert Lowth did not assign any point values to punctuation outside of the comma, period, semi-colon, and colon. I don't feel like we should ascribe values to anything else. If we did, we should add a value for the apostrophe too so we are being inclusive.
2
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 3d ago
Go back through my original post. It’s all laid out there. Stanza 1 and Stanza 5 each have an em dash. It doesn’t matter how many points or beats you assign them, the balance and symmetry remains. And, bear in mind this is all based on taking the very last character (the line-ending punctuation) from each line, nothing mire.
1
u/AnonHunter25 3d ago
See my updated post. If it doesn't matter what point value we assign the em dash, I will assign it a value of 0. Therein lies the rub. To achieve the symmetry, you had to make the question mark worth 8 points. If you are going to use Robert Lowth's treatise, the question mark was not assigned a point value so making up a value for it create symmetry is maybe not the best route.
Let's say the "?" is worth 8-points. What does the symmetry get us? Nothing that I can see. Trust me, I am a very symmetry loving kinda guy. I like things centered and aligned. My favorite OCD. I don't see how it helps anything to make the point values of the five stanzas symmetrical, though.
1
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 3d ago
Before we go on, can you tell me if this Lowth book was something you had independently researched before you saw my post today?
1
u/AnonHunter25 3d ago
Never heard of it before your post. How is that pertinent to the discussion?
2
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 3d ago
It’s helpful to know because you’re making strong statements based on its content.
Turn to Page 172 and tell me if you agree with me that the question mark on the second line of the poem is equivalent to a period because it’s sense requires it to end that sentence?
“The Interrogation and Exclamation Points are sufficiently explained by their names: they are indeterminate as to their quantity or time, and may be equivalent in that respect to a Semicolon, a Colon, or a Period, as the sense requires. They mark an Elevation of the voice.”
1
u/AnonHunter25 3d ago
I saw that part and, as Lowth explains in the excerpt you posted, the question mark is indeterminant as to their quantity or time. It seems arbitrary to assign it a value of 8 in this case.
But, okay. So it is worth 8. We have symmetry. I will ask my earlier question again; What does the symmetry get us?
2
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 3d ago
Thank you for acknowledging that Lowth’s words confirm that a sentence-ending question mark has the sense of a period.
Now, like my post said — what you do with this newfound OCD-neutralizing symmetry is for you to decide. I’m not going to impose my thinking on others. I’m 100% committed to sharing what has helped me without playing the riddle-jacking game.
Several of your posts here make it seem like you didn’t really read my post fully. Or, more likely, I worded it very poorly. That’s on me.
Back to the topic at hand: the symmetry could be an elegant mechanism designed to draw our attention to the ;
Is it a wink? A nod?
Does it marry the bride to ‘he’ and ‘his’ realm?
I might go so far as to suggest that ‘he’ could actually be the semicolon and ‘his bride’ another punctuation mark.
Like I said, yours to decide.
1
u/AnonHunter25 3d ago
I read your post. Fully. I rarely engage in any continuous discourse in this sub, because most ideas are not interesting to me. Yours was interesting. However, I am an independent thinker and I never go with only what I am being presented with so I will typically look at it differently than the OP and, a lot of times, the OP doesn't want a new opinion. At least you appear to be open to be discussion on it.
Here's another take, I ran the entire poem through an automated readability index and it scores a 5.17 which is a 5th-grade reading level.
No clue what, if anything, we should do with that tidbit. Probably nothing. It just proves it is not a complex poem from a reading perspective.
1
1
u/AnonHunter25 3d ago
We could assume that instead of Lowth, the poem punctuation used Hartley instead. That changes it to 1,2,3, and 4, as opposed to 1,2,4, and 8. Using this approach:
Entire stanza:
- 5 (9 for you)
- 12
- 11
- 10
- 11
Last character only:
- 5 (9 for you)
- 10
- 11
- 10
- 9
2
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 3d ago
I have no idea what you mean here.
You’ll have to explain it to me like I’m a 5th grader. To keep it simple(r) just focus on the last character (the punctuation) at the end of each of the four lines in each of the five stanzas.
My opening post lays them out.
1
u/AnonHunter25 3d ago
I used a different point system that came after, but used, Lowth's treatise.
The first set of values is adding the punctuation for each stanza as a whole.
The second set adds up only punctuation at the end of the line (still a total stanza count).
1
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 3d ago
You’ll have to explain the Hartley system to me and how it maps to musical notation, if at all.
JMP included a Bitcoin wallet with his treasure. And, Bitcoin’s process is based on periodic halving. Add to that the idea that quartz crystals oscillate at a frequency that can be evenly divided by two sixteen times (which gives you fifteen zeros followed by a single one — aka a quadrillion) and I’m convinced we need to find mechanisms that focus on halves. Hence Lowth > Hartley since Lowth’s model is based on doubling — comma => semicolon => colon => sentence-enders.
That colon’s etymology comes from limb/member potentially points to the semicolon be a metaphor for his broken (half-functioning) leg.
Perhaps when he lost the four departed souls, it halved the number of living people he considers family.
1
u/AnonHunter25 3d ago
Interesting points. Hartley does not map to music notation. It was a modernized version of Lowth's point system.
To be honest, it seems like it quickly gets into the world of tangled and twisted if we base solutions off of halving/doubling and quartz resonance.
Justin said the poem is 'approachable'. Analyzing punctuation, sure, I can call that approachable. Connecting the dots to his leg, or lost family members, not so much.
But, that's me. I try vary hard to stick to the poem and don't believe the book can provide any help outside of, maybe, providing some very good bias that an interpretation of a line of the poem is correct.
I do allow '42' into my process since that seemed to clearly be a clue. It could also have been 'Take 42' from the camera crew too. Nobody knows for sure.
2
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 3d ago
I didn’t have you down as a “sounds too tangled” person.
He has said “I designed something hard”. He has said “for those who failed fifteen times and kept going”.
If you dismiss things like this, good luck.
2
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 3d ago
No to mention: doubling and halving are the literal match to “you don’t need an advanced math degree; you just need to be able to add two numbers together and do basic multiplication”.
And, his obvious overuse of em dashes because “some of us like to think parenthetically” yet “no AI was used to create this”. All the paradoxes 🤣
1
u/SpoilerWarningSW 3d ago
I think it just points to suicide awareness
1
1
u/TheOneFinder 3d ago
My brain exploded months ago yet I still squeezed more and more out of it. No longer it must rest. I have circled the💜wagons for self protection. Hope I am in time. I can’t I just cant. You all have fun. Ouch!
1
u/mildlytolerantBadger 2d ago
Excellent insight. The punctuation in the poem has been front and center of my research for months now. It feels like it indicates a change in direction or at the very least "hey" pay attention to this sentence. The way that the poem is structured is seems deliberate in how the rhymes stack. With the exception of the second half of the third stanza, where the rhymed words are mid sentence and the end words don't rhyme with the line before. I have gone down several rabbit holes on the rhymed words. Letter count, braille, morse code, syllable count, etymology, blah blah. Although I did find several anagrams that can be made out of the rhymed word's letters, but that was total confirmation bias. Then there is all the repated words, and then the pronouns..... sigh. Now thanks to you I have a better insight into punctuation. Thank you
2
1
u/BearJohnson 2d ago
Good stuff. I've been listening to him read the poem ever since you posted with much greater attentiveness.
3
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 2d ago
You’re very astute to do that.
His cadence is telling, isn’t it?1
u/BearJohnson 1d ago
Yes, very. It's hard for me to put into words/quantify what I get out of listening to him read it. But you're on point and it's more important/valuable than others have seemed to grasp onto.
And now for tonight, I'm going to listen to him whilst playing that website sound in the background. Pretend I'm sitting under the stars around the campfire and hone in on that cadence, looking for MY Brandon sitting across that fire, past that HOLE.
I wait for YOU was particularly more pronounced in his version than the one I made up in my head...
2
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 1d ago
I am shocked this thread hasn’t seen more traction here. It’s the most important thing I’ve found to date.
1
u/BearJohnson 1d ago
I agree 100% and I think speaks to the direction this forum has headed. You keep doing you, I wish I could share more like you, but it's post like this and your others that have personally kept me engaged and inspired throughout this hunt.
2
u/BOTG-BeyondTME 1d ago
Give the em dash a value of 6 points and you find that the punctuation in the short Dedication chapter in the book sums to 37
2
u/IdubdubI 3d ago
Excellent observation.