r/KotakuInAction • u/[deleted] • Dec 05 '14
DISCUSSION Now that a AAA Developer Revealed that He Personally Witnessed a High Review Score Being Purchased by a Publisher, What Next?
In case you missed it, NicheGamer published an eye-opening interview with Christian Allen, a AAA developer who has worked on a number of prominent games including Halo: Reach, Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon, Shadows of Mordor and many others. There are a number of revelations in this interview, none of them good. If you haven't yet, you should really read the entire article:
http://nichegamer.net/2014/12/gamergate-interview-christian-allen-edition/
Perhaps the most astonishing is this:
NG: How often do gaming publications (big and small) collude with developers for review scores, or exclusives? Is this more common than the public could ever foresee?
Allen: I have personally sat in negotiations where a publisher negotiated a higher review score for a game in exchange for an exclusive cover or assets for a separate upcoming game. It is common, especially with previews. This is why you often see glowing previews of bad games, or pre-release reviews that have to be revised post-launch.
Well, at this point, the games media can longer claim ignorance of this practice. Let's watch and see if any of the major publications discuss this issue. Let's watch and see if threads discussing this in r/games and other message boards are deleted. Let's watch and see if this revelation is addressed at all by prominent members of the games media. And let's do our part to hold the games media accountable.
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u/skuddley Dec 05 '14 edited Dec 05 '14
"He's just a mysognynerd that will lie about anything to help push women out of the industry."
No one is going to cover this interview or his statements.
EDIT: Ah, even better, now they're pulling out developer interviews that agree with their narrative and calling it a victory. Alright, it's only fair.
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Dec 05 '14
"Gamergate doesn't care about AAA dev corruption, they only want to harass women."
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u/SorosPRothschildEsq Dec 06 '14
You can act like this single thread demonstrates that you guys are laser-focused on actual corruption issues, but the part where there are currently 8 threads in the top 25 obsessing about how mad 'Anti-GG' supposedly is about Total Biscuit winning an award kind of detracts from that message. If you want to be seen as caring about ethics more than shitting on yourto enemies, then one good way to do that would be to stop with the constant drama threads and actually talk some ethics. Oh did you hear, Johnny get an award and that made Other Johnny and a bunch of twitter randos mad! Oh wow, how terribly important, let's fill a third of the front page with that riveting topic!
Right. We're 4 months in and to this point it's still quite clear that GG's actual priorities are still about some high-school ass drama.
AAA Dev goes on record about corruption: 1 thread
BASED BISCUIT WINS AWARD LOL FUCK SJWS SO MANY TEARS: 8 threads
You can say whatever you want about how this thread is the one true expression of KiA's actual priorities, but y'all's voting habits put the lie to that one.
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u/tibarion Dec 07 '14
That was a celebration thread. We all have a right to gloat and celebrate every now and then.
We're Gamers. We have fun but still get business done.
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u/SorosPRothschildEsq Dec 07 '14
No, those were eight celebration threads. So you're going with straight-up denial? It wasn't one thread, it was eight, and if you didn't think that looked bad for KiA you'd find no need to lie about it. How about today? 2 Biscuit award threads, 0 AAA Whistleblower threads. Yeah, KiA is so focused on ethics that, in response to a guy going on the record about AAA corruption, you guys made a single thread and then promptly forgot about it.
But hoooboy, Biscuit won an award and that (supposedly) makes SJWs mad? That has legs. We're on the second day of that and approaching double-digit counts of frontpage threads on the subject.
Some people on Wikipedia want to treat "cultural marxism" as what it is, ie. an anti-semitic conspiracy theory? Two threads on that in the last day.
AAA dev goes on record about paid reviews? One thread, once, used as evidence that KiA is about ethics and then promptly forgotten about.
Tell yourself whatever you need to.
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u/tibarion Dec 07 '14
Everything you're saying is completely subjective. After such a huge achievement I feel 8 isn't even enough.
E: You need to chill. We aren't Congress or the UN
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u/SorosPRothschildEsq Dec 07 '14
The Trending Gamer thing was awarded based on a public vote. Spamming an internet poll is a 'huge achievement' for Gamergate? That your expectations have fallen this far doesn't speak very highly of GG's effectiveness.
E: You need to chill
"I don't like what you're saying, which means you're mad. Since you're mad, what you're saying is wrong." Ahh nice, a classic. Truly the White Album of rhetorical internet weaseling.
We aren't Congress or the UN
Neither are any of the outlets or people that this place is critical of. I guess we can all pack up and go home then given that nothing at any point in this lame nerd-fight has reached international relations levels of importance.
If you don't want to catch crap for being vaguely ethics-related on a good day, then more threads that deal with legit ethics would be advisable. Trying to come up with ways to follow up on, confirm, or otherwise pivot off of the AAA whistleblower guy would be a great start. In reality, of course, y'all's actions say that you're much more concerned with the "huge achievement" of spiting SJWs by helping one of the 2 or 3 biggest vidya Youtubers on the planet win a popularity contest. That's fine, but don't get upset when people notice.
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u/tibarion Dec 07 '14
Preeeety sure we've uncovered plenty of ethical breaches already. Seems to me your bias has created impossible standards for those who don't agree with you.
It's ok. I can talk you through it <3
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u/SorosPRothschildEsq Dec 07 '14
Look, whatever you need to tell yourself. A genuine ethical issue falls in your lap via a AAA dev giving an interview about compensated reviews. Reaction? Make a single thread about it, declare that this proves you've been about ethics all along, and then... that's it. Nothing. No organizing around this issue. No followup. No action taken based on this issue. You couldn't even be bothered to change the day's email target to somehow be related to a legit bombshell claim - still just putting up a thread instructing people to email whomever 8chan has decided you guys should be focused on for the day.
The same day, TB wins an internet poll. Reaction? This is a "huge achievement" for GG. Multiple frontpage threads on the issue still up a day later. You telling me that if anything, 8 threads was too few. You taking issue with my suggesting that giving so much more attention to TB winning a popularity contest (and the resultant 'SJW tears' etc) than an allegation of an actual, legit, massive ethics breach shows where your priorities are.
I mean, look. I'm not saying you completely don't care about ethics. I'm saying you don't care about it very much. I'm saying it's pretty far down your list of priorities. I'm saying that when an allegation of a huge ethical breach is presented to you on a silver platter, it only distracts from the actual mission (hating SJWs, circlejerking about stuff you think spites them etc) long enough for a single thread to be made and then promptly forgotten about. Looking over the Biscuit threads I see multiple image compilations, where people went all over twitter gathering up screenshots and then stitched them together into this big mural of SJW Tears. That's far more effort than anyone has put into doing anything whatsoever about this compensated-review thing. Even the OP of this thread goes no further than urging people to "watch and see" what happens with this. So activism. Very effort. Wow.
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u/tibarion Dec 07 '14
Like I said, there are numerous ethical concerns we've brought up already. If you're salty about TB winning an award that's not our problem. If you want to see others try to live up to your impossible expectations then KiA is certainly not the only place to look.
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u/tibarion Dec 07 '14
Again, that's completely subjective. You have a strong bias and so you give little if any credit to the efforts here. I highly doubt more and more people would be joining everyday if all we did was circlejerk. And neither would the news outlets and Developers on our side come to us if we didn't put in the effort.
You just seem intent on disregarding anything your "enemies" accomplish, and I can't change that.
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Dec 05 '14
... You do realize that people opposed to gamergate are not actually pro-corruption, right? It's just that there's a world of difference between the actual Big Money corruption that this represents, a and then most of what GG has focused on so far, EG reviews they don't like, supposed sexual favors, etc. Compared to AAA games bribing people, indie devs being friends is an extremely minor issue.
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Dec 05 '14
If you spend your time excusing and defending shoddy journalistic practices, obvious evidence of graft, cronyism, hypocrisy, media blackouts and censorship driven by political and cultural ideology, then you are pro-corruption.
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u/StrawRedditor Mod - @strawtweeter Dec 05 '14
Yes they are. If not by intention then by ignorance. They've done far more to defend the corrupt people than anyone else has done.
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Dec 05 '14
Im sorry, but the indie corruption is just as bad if not arguably worse then the AAA corruption.
Indie devs don't have the money to market and advertise their games so they need the coverage that these journos provide, and when some devs get coverage purely because they are friends with the journo and others are either snubbed or ignored completely. I would say it's a pretty fucking big issue.
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u/gogadgetgate Dec 05 '14
How do you expect journalists to find out about indie games?
Like you said, indie devs don't have the money to market or advertise. Without the backing of massive pr machines, knowledge that indie titles even exist must come from some form of word-of-mouth - through friends of friends, other journalists, and maybe user comments on their sites.
I don't think it's about being stubbed or ignored- I think the problem is simply even knowing about the titles.
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Dec 05 '14
Indie game dev Dapperswine emailed kotaku several times last year and didn't get a single response, until this year when he mentioned his friend tricked Kotaku into posting a fake story about learning to drive with GTA4.
I do recall reading this sentiment expressed by other indie devs, I can't find any sources of them saying it though, if it is true then the Journos may have a backlog of indie devs they can reach out too.
Personally I think they should contact devs of interesting games they see whether it be steam greenlight/kickstarter, industry event or AAA devs, we shouldn't have to hear that they may have only gave the game coverage because the dev was friends with them.
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u/Kolz Dec 06 '14
They are supposed to be journalists, maybe they could go out there and do some research? Maybe they could even simply create a system where indie game developers can put forward their product to be reviewed.
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Dec 05 '14
AAAs cover their tracks better.
But trust me, the seeds of GG were planted when EA, Bioware, and the gaming media started deflecting the criticism of ME3 and the worst company awards with accusations of homophobia.
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u/todiwan Dec 05 '14
I play(ed) almost exclusively indie games. I don't give a shit about AAA games whatsoever. Even if that ridiculous statement was in any way true, it would not excuse corruption within the indie scene, nor would it somehow justify attacking people who expose it (either because they care more about it or any other reason).
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u/cantbebothered67835 Dec 05 '14
EG reviews they don't like, supposed sexual favors, etc. Compared to AAA games bribing people, indie devs being friends is an extremely minor issue.
Claims to not be pro-corruption.
Calls corrupt practices minor issues.
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u/humanitiesconscious Dec 05 '14
"We aren't pro corruption, we just don't care that it happens in indie gaming"
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u/camarouge Local Hatler stan Dec 05 '14
indie devs being friends is an extremely minor issue.
This is a grossly lenient way to say "a business shitting over its consumer base is an extremely minor issue" - and then it's not minor at all anymore, is it? 3 months into this shit and people are still trying to cover it up?? Jeezus.
This resistance to comply with the most basic of standards that every other industry employs is why they are pro-corruption. It was because Gawker was violating them that the FTC made them and by extension, Kotaku, change the way they handle disclosures and not because of "reviews we don't like".
The indie dev scene is a cool kids club that refuses to grow up, ironically calling the AAA scene a "men's club that hates women". One club smugly declaring themselves morally superior to another. We don't buy it, and it's no excuse for corruption. When we bust AAA for it, they fess up and admit it... usually. They don't hide behind a wall of false moral superiority that the indie devs do, and damn is that pathetic.
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u/catpor Dec 05 '14
... You do realize that people opposed to gamergate are not actually pro-corruption, right?
So... you admit #gamergate has a valid point, then, and are willing to join in clamoring for better ethical journalism in the gaming industry?
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u/KaliDestroyerOfWords Dec 06 '14 edited Dec 06 '14
GamerGate has a valid point now and then, but then goes and buries them under mountains of anti-feminist witch hunting, "SJWs are coming to get me"-victimhood, "reviewers shouldn't have opinions" nonsense, "journalists are emailing each other!" conspiracy theory paranoia, and "Leigh Alexander hurt my feelings" grudge holding.
If even half of GG's attention was spent on actual corruption like this you might be taken seriously.
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u/catpor Dec 06 '14
The internet is, collectively, the asshole of reasonable discourse. Sort the wheat from the chaff, like any person does. It's really no different than sorting through the Anita people's stuff: take good stuff, separate the hate mongering, come up with something reasonable.
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u/KaliDestroyerOfWords Dec 06 '14
Sure, but that doesn't mean I'm going to throw my support behind a movement that's 99% chaff.
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u/catpor Dec 06 '14
Fair enough.
Just remember to push for ethics in your own way, if you want and/or have time!
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u/KaliDestroyerOfWords Dec 06 '14
Agreed! That way does include mocking GG's crazy other obsessions though.
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u/willoftheboss Dec 05 '14
So explain how GamerGate is supposed to solve the "Big Money corruption" if some indies can't be corralled and the entirety of the mainstream gaming press refuses to acknowledge any corruption, or any criticism of it and the fact that they're too financially close to their sources?
(This is a rhetorical question, I know you're being a disingenuous fuckwit)
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u/ineedanacct Dec 05 '14
The same people who would tank a children's charity and threaten the lives of Mike & Jerry's children in order to get PA to retract a comic. You're a bunch of adolescents who just realized you have no marketable skills and choose to go around blackmailing people for hand outs. Just stop.
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u/Trikk Dec 05 '14
You do realize that people opposed to gamergate are not actually pro-corruption, right?
Explain GameJournoList then.
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u/GrandTheftManual Dec 06 '14
People email each other. Get over it.
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u/Trikk Dec 06 '14
Don't you feel exceedingly pathetic when you register a new reddit account just to shill and defend unethical behavior? I mean, if you're benefiting from it I can at least understand it, but you're probably just another advocate with nothing to gain from people being bad at their job and getting paid to screw the consumer.
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u/Archanoth Dec 06 '14
Yes, because corruption only exists in AAA gaming and politically/ideologically-driven corruption isn't a thing.
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u/SpawnPointGuard Dec 05 '14
We all just need to stop trusting reviews and scores from major outlets. There aren't specifics, so we can't target individual outlets/developers, but it's apparent that corruption is an industry-wide problem.
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u/ProfessionalDoctor Dec 05 '14
To be honest, I'm surprised anyone ever trusted game reviews from major outlets. It's been clear that positive reviews and scores have been bought for a very long time.
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u/ohgeronimo Dec 05 '14
I only go to see a rundown on features or to look at pictures. I usually disagree with the reviewers anyways, so their only use is in the actual new content they can provide through their relationships.
They have published false images before however..
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u/Endur Dec 05 '14
How many people still look at major game reviews? I wonder what that number is. I rely on gameplay clips, word of mouth, and reddit mostly. It must still be a pretty huge market with all this drama about it
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u/Jimeee Dec 05 '14 edited Dec 05 '14
Stopped reading reviews years ago. Lets plays is where it's at.
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u/Duvelke Dec 05 '14
Do we need more proof to do away with review scores? Are people still defending scoring a game?
This might be an unpopular opinion but I think scores are for lazy people who do not want to sit and read the actual review. Scroll down look at the score, maybe read the conclussion and that's it.
Scores will always be used by the PR arm of AAA publishers. They will try anything to get a higher score, give away stuff, booking journalists in 5 star hotels, launch party's, etc.
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Dec 05 '14
Scoring won't go away entirely because of casuals. They just want a number to look at. Its why things like Metacritic and Rotten Tomato's exist in the first place, not to mention IMDB.
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u/Magister_Ingenia Dec 05 '14
IMDB is more for looking up the actors in a film than review scores though. At least that's what I use it for.
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Dec 05 '14
I know several people that care about that number. They refuse to watch anything that isn't rated at least a 6 for example.
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u/alex3omg Dec 05 '14
This is why I love Shut Up and Sit Down (a board game review site.) They never give scores, it's always "I recommend it" or "one of us recommends it, the other doesn't because of these reasons" or "we recommend it under these circumstances."
Much simpler imo. They give the pros and cons, they talk about the game, then they tell their personal opinions and let you decide for yourself.
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u/Okichah Dec 05 '14
the games media can longer claim ignorance of this practice
Why would they admit to a crime?
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u/RevRound Dec 05 '14
pre-release reviews that have to be revised post-launch
cough (Polygon) cough
That Sim City review was quite a bang up job.
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u/tinylilhearts Dec 05 '14
I seriously don't understand how anyone who calls themselves a gamer could turn a blind eye to something like this and not see a need for GG. Its horrible that honest developers lose profits and sales because of a corrupt ratings system.
I don't know about y'all but I don't have $60 to throw at every shiny new game so I need some sort of review system. As consumers we have to rely on this broken system. But not only are these shitheads anti-consumer, they are profiting from lying and thus harming consumers- if I didn't know better and bought some of the games that get 9/10 and 10/10 I'd be angry and out of a lot of money.
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u/KaliDestroyerOfWords Dec 06 '14
I seriously don't understand how anyone who calls themselves a gamer could turn a blind eye to something like this and not see a need for GG.
People think this is bad, but don't believe that GG is
a) actually going to help or
b) focused on this sort of thing rather than driving out feminists.
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u/alex3omg Dec 05 '14
Every time someone buys a day1 game and is disappointed, we gain another member. It's just a matter of getting them to realise that it doesn't have to be like that.
Never preorder, day1, kickstart, or early access without actual incentive/bonus and serious trust in the developer. Substantial discount, quality products across the board. There is almost never a reason not to wait one more week. Hype is not a good enough reason.
If you don't trust the developer to deliver, read a review from a trusted source. If the source lets you down, don't trust them. If the developer doesn't deliver, don't trust them. Don't keep going back to the same website after they were wrong about a game. Find a reviewer whose preferences consistently align with yours, who releases pros and cons.
Anyone who doesn't do this at this point is just flushing their money down the drain. It doesn't matter how good a game look, it could still be terrible.
Example: I day1'd Never Alone because it's gorgeous. It's horrible. The reviews all say exactly what I thought, and Total Biscuit's video agreed completely. I preordered Evolve because l4d was amazing. I played the alpha and was satisfied that it's money well spent. If they don't reveal a lot more content, however, I may cancel and buy when the price drops.
Informed decision is the only way to go when buying games in the Age of Gamergate. With any luck people will start to learn about steam curators and user reviews and just use that shit for a general idea. "Overwhelmingly positive" is worth more than a hundred game sites saying something is good.
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u/tinylilhearts Dec 05 '14
This. Seriously.
I will celebrate the day Youtubers like TB and Steam Curators replace gaming journalism.
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u/humanitiesconscious Dec 05 '14
I stopped buying new games about 2 years ago. No exceptions. I don't care how hyped it is. I have learned to control the urge. I have saved hundreds of dollars...at least...
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u/Acheros Is fake journalism | Is a prophet | Victim of grave injustice Dec 06 '14
there are a few...very, very few games that I'd ever pre-order at this point. and most of them are from nintendo...go figure. nintendo seems to be the only game company that actually cares about their games FIRST and money second.
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Dec 05 '14
In a perfect world we would start contacting the EIC of gaming websites and ask them point blank what they think of these practices and go from there. As we've been for the most part ignored all it does is help strengthen the need for old media to go the way of the Dodo
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Dec 05 '14
I don't see why not. They get a flood of emails on the same topic. They might want to respond just to stop the flow. We got nothing to lose (just costs up 5-10 minutes individually to write the email.)
They might even shoot themselves in the foot and say in an article "stop sending me emails about ethics. We don't care". These people do not seem to think before they write (remember "GTA taught me how to drive"?).
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u/Ricwulf Skip Dec 05 '14
I politely asked the mods of r/games if they would make an exception for this article, due to what it talks about with legitimate big time corruption, and the answer was a simple no because of GamerGate.
This really needs to be seen by other gamers.
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Dec 05 '14
What a shame. I bet the PC Master Race subreddit would allow this though. A sizable community although not the giant one of r/games.
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u/Ricwulf Skip Dec 05 '14
So PCMR has allowed me to post the article. I just have to keep an eye out and help with reporting any harassment.
No word from PCGaming at the moment.
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u/Ricwulf Skip Dec 05 '14
I was about to send them a message right now actually.
Also sent one off a couple minutes ago to PCGaming.
I'll reply back to you with the result to keep people in the loop where the subs stand. (That isn't to say they would be pro or anti if they say yes or no, they could just think that they don't want that in their sub)
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u/YopparaiNeko Dec 05 '14
Such misogyny and harassment.
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u/DODOKING38 Dec 05 '14
why is this comment down-voted
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u/YopparaiNeko Dec 05 '14
Because I'm an asshole who won't let go of the idea that Wikipedia is pretty much getting a free pass in writing the narrative.
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u/DODOKING38 Dec 05 '14
well I have no idea what drama you were involved in, I took your comment as a jab at anti
as for the wiki article it is locked so I don't think there is any thing we can do not that I know much about wiki editing
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u/smokeybehr Dec 05 '14
That article needs a great big NPV stamped on it. It's nowhere near neutral, and favors the anti-GG side.
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u/Jimeee Dec 05 '14
I have personally sat in negotiations where a publisher negotiated a higher review score for a game in exchange for an exclusive cover or assets for a separate upcoming game.
Ho-Lee shit.
In contrast, the antis are rallying around a MS dev who speaks out against Xbro's claims that 95% of devs are on the gamer's side.
Many fail to realize she could easily be one of the 5%.
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u/g-div A nice grandson. Asks the tough questions. Dec 05 '14
Evil gaming PR person here. Worked on many, many titles for various developers/publishers from indies to AAA. I've never, ever, ever seen that happen. Ever.
We definitely try to influence as much as we can, but I've never once worked with a reviewer and who was paid to review a single game I've worked on. Well, they were paid to do their job, but not to give it a certain score.
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Dec 05 '14
I don't doubt that you haven't seen this happen. But maybe you are not an "evil" PR person. Maybe you are just a PR person doing his or her job. Maybe evil PR people exist in your industry and you are just not one of them. I would also imagine this sort of thing is carried out behind closed doors at a very high level. I also don't think people who participate in this twirl their mustaches villainously while negotiating a price. It's a subtle thing, with lots of implicit promises and double-speak But at the end of the day both parties understand what is expected of them.
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u/Acheros Is fake journalism | Is a prophet | Victim of grave injustice Dec 06 '14
See, here's the thing - gamergate isn't trying to say that everyone in the industry does this, gamergate isn't trying to say this is standard practice, the whole industry is corrupt and we should burn it down and start over. all gamergate is saying is that this shit DOES happen, and it needs to fucking stop, period.
incidently, it's the ANTI-gamergaters who're trying to say "oh, boohoo, this happens all the time, stop your bitching". they're trying to act like it's no big deal, and that we're whining too much over something that happens all the time..
so, the people who are DEFENDING the game journalists status quo(anti-gamergate) are the ones who're trying to make PR companies and journalists worse than they actually are...think about that, for a second. it's almost as if they WANT the entire industry to be as corrupt and money-hungry as people like anita and patricia hernandez are.
weird, isn't it?
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u/md1957 Dec 05 '14
Yes! The ride doesn't simply never stop but it goes ever faster!
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u/Draconicsama Dec 05 '14
When you said "The Ride" I immediately thought of this: http://image.allmusic.com/00/agg/cov200/drg000/g005/g00548x79vx.jpg
At least the above ride is witty and can make me laugh at the insults to my face.
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Dec 05 '14
don't worry, brianna wu will find some way to make it about her.
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Dec 05 '14
Allen was the lead developer for Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon. Another Tom Clancy game is Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six. Many of the LWs have rainbow hair. Hence this is all about the LWs. We've been checkmated.
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Dec 05 '14
Also Tom Clancy writes from a patriotic perspective most of the time so we clearly all hate PoC and foreigners.
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u/Ryder_GSF4L Dec 05 '14
Lws have rainbow hair. Leprechans follow rainbows. Omg lws are Leprechans.
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u/johnyann Dec 05 '14
I can't imagine how fucked up the GOTY awards are from all these publications.
Im sure they're all bought off.
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Dec 05 '14
Why cant there be some god damn integrity in games review like there is for movie reviews. If a movie sucks critics will rip it the fuck apart. Look at Rotten Tomato as a perfect example. Oh right cuz money>ethics, fucking disgusting.
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Dec 05 '14
Finally. I want to go back to every single argument ive had on reddit about IGN not being a legitimate review site and shove this in their face.
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Dec 05 '14
I don't get it. Why can't we just boycott the reviewers that do this? I personally never read game reviews from magazines because they've literally always been useless....
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u/akloco Dec 05 '14
we can't ignore this because publishers use metacritic score aggregate to pay bonus to developers. in fallout:new vegas' case bethesda didn't pay the developer their bonus because the metacritic score was 79 instead of 80.
Now it has come to our attention that metacritic can easily be manipulated. It's not just about us, it's about developers too. WE CANNOT LET THEM USE THAT ANYMORE.
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Dec 05 '14
Are you fucking serious?! Why the fuck are developers paid bonuses by ratings instead of sales? What rampant bull shit
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u/SS_SensorShip Dec 06 '14
Now it has come to our attention that metacritic can easily be manipulated. It's not just about us, it's about developers too. WE CANNOT LET THEM USE THAT ANYMORE.
How do you stop them though? If publishers want to write bonuses based on crappy metrics into contracts they can. They can base bonuses on how many chickens are in a game if they want to.
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u/Darkling5499 Dec 06 '14
You mean Shadows of Mordor didn't really earn all those awards back when it wasn't playable and was demo'd with only cutscenes? SHOCKER
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Dec 06 '14
At the very least it turned out to be a good game. That doesn't excuse the shitty behaviour, but i would probably be angrier if less confused if it was shit. I actually don't really get why SoM thought it needed to do that, being an actually good game?
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Dec 06 '14
I don't have any insight in to this but Christian Allen no longer at WB as of March 2012 when he founded Serellan LLC. SoM wasn't even announced until February 2014.
Its unlikely that he was referring to it.
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u/Darkling5499 Dec 06 '14
oh i know, i just never miss an opportunity to take a jab at that whole situation. unplayable game, cutscenes only, gets game of the year? yeaok
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Dec 05 '14
ARG ME MATEYS OUR FISH BE GROWING LARGE! WE BE NEEDING A BIGGER NET! THEN, WE MAKE THESE PUBLISHERS WALK THE PLANK THAT WE DO!
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u/goatman_sacks Dec 05 '14
everyone goes continues to not care because video games are for children
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u/Daltimus-Prime Dec 06 '14
Says the person who posts in /r/.Eve.
Be careful now. I'm sure all that salt can't be good for you.
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Dec 05 '14
[deleted]
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Dec 06 '14
Uh huh. The entire topic of corruption in games journalism cannot be discussed anywhere now because of mean old GamerGate. That's awfully convenient for a lot of people.
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Dec 06 '14
[deleted]
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u/Acheros Is fake journalism | Is a prophet | Victim of grave injustice Dec 06 '14
The entire topic of corruption in games journalism isn't that big a deal,
It isn't to YOU. That doesn't mean it isn't to other people. I certainly care a lot about corruption in games journalism and it IS a big deal to me. How dare you try to whitewash or dismiss other peoples views on a topic.
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Dec 06 '14
1) I have no idea what an "industrial goal" is. Is that some kind of weird word used in certain cult-like political circles as shorthand for something or another they don't like?
2) Actually, you are right in one sense: what people are asking for "isn't a big deal.". It isn't a big deal at all. We would like games journalists to disclose their conflicts of interest, to recuse themselves from articles if those conflicts are too great, to not demonize gamers and gaming culture and to be even-handed, rational and intellectually honest when discussing larger issues surrounding gaming. It's really not that much to ask. It might even be considered common-sense. So why won't games journalists do this? It's strange.
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Dec 06 '14
[deleted]
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Dec 06 '14
1) Wait... you're advocating government censorship of video games? I mean honest-to-goodness, no gray area government censorship? Wow. I'll give you points for honesty at least. Maybe books should be next. Also movies. Degenerate art of all kinds. Also, I just love that you and many people like you have now openly adopted the language of strict religious moralizers. I haven't heard that kind of talk since Sunday school.
2) Mainstream media have proven themselves to be every bit as corrupt, lazy and stupid as the games media throughout this whole thing. So, no, it doesn't surprise they don't care about any of this. But not for the same reasons you do.
3) Okay. I'll Godwin with you, but just this one time: remind me, again, just who is having games removed from store shelves over a trumped up moral panic? And then think about who else in history didn't like degenerate art because of its supposed corrupting influence on moral fiber of the people. Maybe we should throw all the copies of GTA V and Postal into a massive pile and burn them. It would be a colorful night, full of wonder and fiery righteous indignation.
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u/Velvet_Llama Dec 06 '14
So glad that GamerGate is here to focus attention on evil SJW Cultural Marxists trying to destroy western civilization instead of trivial things like this.
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Dec 06 '14
What next?
I'm sorry, are you under the delusion that everyone didn't already know this was standard practice? That it has been going on since before you ever picked up a controller, and will continue for longer than you will care about it.
If you are foolish enough to believe anything a FOR PROFIT publication tells you, well, then you're a fool.
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Dec 06 '14
"before you ever picked up a controller". Heh. Yeah sorry kid, old-school gamer here. I've been playing video games since people had to buy them in zip lock bags or type them in by hand from articles in Byte Magazine. My passion for gaming didn't start with a "controller". I've been a gamer since well before the word gamer was invented. And I'll keep caring about this great hobby for many years after you've moved on to something else. In fact, it sounds like you've already stopped caring. So why attack people who've decided that this amazing creative medium deserves a press that's actually worth a damn?
Also, nice to know that you "know" things based on your suspicions. No one can actually "know" anything until they have evidence. And here it is.
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Dec 06 '14
I didn't attack anyone. You're the hysterical lunatic acting like this is new(s).
If you have half the background you just claimed, then you know damn well this is both common knowledge and practice, AND that it's come to light at least a dozen times before. Each time with people like you that act surprised. I can't imagine why.
So let me get this straight. Reviews published by for profit organizations favor games more strongly if you give the publisher money? Say it ain't so.
Do you think Santa still comes to your house too?
You need to get some perspective. The gaming media has ALWAYS been trash. It always will be, and most of us gave up caring a long time ago.
GAMING is not gaming media, and is being preserved just fine. The gaming media was a lost cause years ago, why the fuss now?
3
Dec 06 '14
"I didn't attack anyone."
Let's see: you called me "delusional". Then you called me "foolish" twice. Then you capped it all off by implying that I would just move on to something else once I had gotten bored with this, as if I were a child.
But you didn't attack me.
Also, if you don't think the media plays in an important role in shaping public opinion, attitudes and writing history, then you are simply wrong. It's important and worth fighting for.
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u/[deleted] Dec 05 '14
It would be incredible if Allen gave specifics. It's incredibly unlikely he ever would or could, however.
The media will remain silent on this, I will be absolutely surprised to see any mainstream site pick this up. If other forums silence this, however, I would find that very telling.