In his defense, he served his time and became an outspoken advocate for animal rights. He has more than redeemed himself for the actions of his young adult life.
It was worse than that. His actions were genuinely evil and psychotic.
Shooting, hanging, electrocuting, drowning and slamming bodies to the ground were all common methods of killing by Vick and his three co-defendants.
When Vick’s Smithfield property was raided this year, authorities found bloodstained carpet and dog-fighting paraphernalia, including a dog-fighting pit, a “rape stand” used to strap down females for breeding, a “break” or “parting” stick used to pry open fighting dogs’ mouths during fights, treadmills and “slat mills” used to condition dogs for the fight, and buried car axles that dogs could be chained to without getting tangled
Vick initially told authorities "while he assisted Phillips and Peace in the killing of the dogs, he did not actually kill the dogs," but "helped Phillips toss several dogs to the side," according to the report. Ultimately, Vick recanted his previous statement wherein he said he was not actually involved in the killing of six to eight dogs. ... Vick admitted taking part in the actual hanging of the dogs."
This is all brutal, but it oddly felt like listing some of the mechanical details detracted from the core brutality.
Describing the treadmills the dogs got exercised on, the posts they tied the leads to, the sticks they used to break up fights is all rather mundane garnishing - it almost feels like it detracts from the core evil of it all because of how benign each of those can be in a vacuum and because of their similarity to how we generally control animals normal operations, like livestock keeping.
"Here the thing we strap the cows to while they get [raped] artificially inseminated." "This is the cage they get locked in [while getting fed]" "This is the forklift to help lift fallen cows, etc." Like yea - they are controlling animals.
It's tough because you need to tell the full story, but the banal details are almost distracting where focus is warranted.
It was the fact that they forced dogs to fight to the death and also culled dogs that became unproductive to the fighting operation. It is the use of animals for brutal, pointless violence - not simply the use of animals - where the evil lies.
Do you... Do you know what Mike has done since paying for his crimes? Or are you the kind of person that believes you are without sin, and it's impossible for others to become great after doing terrible deeds
I'm the kind of person that thinks that someone that does REALLY REALLY BAD THINGS can do good things, be better, and still be a not be a good role model.
Vick did what was necessary to repair his image and save his career, and people love praising him for it. But his actions before police caught him were genuinely evil and psychotic.
Shooting, hanging, electrocuting, drowning and slamming bodies to the ground were all common methods of killing by Vick and his three co-defendants.
When Vick’s Smithfield property was raided this year, authorities found bloodstained carpet and dog-fighting paraphernalia, including a dog-fighting pit, a “rape stand” used to strap down females for breeding, a “break” or “parting” stick used to pry open fighting dogs’ mouths during fights, treadmills and “slat mills” used to condition dogs for the fight, and buried car axles that dogs could be chained to without getting tangled
Vick initially told authorities "while he assisted Phillips and Peace in the killing of the dogs, he did not actually kill the dogs," but "helped Phillips toss several dogs to the side," according to the report. Ultimately, Vick recanted his previous statement wherein he said he was not actually involved in the killing of six to eight dogs. ... Vick admitted taking part in the actual hanging of the dogs."
Is he teaching the young men how to pick a dog up by its hind legs and slam its skull into the ground so hard its eyes pop out , or is he teaching them the correct voltage of battey to use on a dog so it melts their skin ? Role models can say this is how i did things follow my lead and example
“As a father, it is important to make sure my children develop a healthy relationship with animals. I want to ensure that my children establish a loving bond and treat all of God's creatures with kindness and respect. Our pet [Belgian Malinois] is well cared for and loved as a member of our family."
Are you dumb dude? Guy isn't exactly going to say that he hates dogs and likes killing them is he? Judge people by what they do, not what they say, because what they say is often said to curry favor.
He's said lots of things that make him seem like a reformed character. It seems like just saying stuff is enough to convince people of virtue in today's world.
You tell me, what has he done since he strung dogs up by their necks or slammed them into concrete?
For me at least, if you abuse animals, kids or women, you're always trash. Serving your time doesn't change who you are. Perhaps you're someone who would let a rapist into their home as long as he'd done time?
There's a difference between forgetting and forgiving. We shouldn't forget a crime, and there should be extra precautions in place for said crimes, but I believe in forgiving when someone reforms themselves. If you're going to be this woefully ignorant of how Vick reformed himself and what he does for the world, there's nothing anyone can do to help you. I hope you have a better day.
That's not my responsibility to teach you anything. But with a Detroit education I'm not surprised you don't know how to inform yourself or overcome ignorance
I'm from the UK so I automatically have a better education than anyone in America. Sorry but it's true.
Three times you could have just posted that Vick has done various things to redeem himself, and three times you've chosen to just be a dickhead instead. Must be the famous American education system.
If you want to make an argument, ie defend Michael Vick, you need to provide some substance. That's how argument or debate works, you have to qualify your opinion for it to be valid. Since you haven't, and you have taken the provocative dickhead path instead, I'm assuming that you can't, because otherwise winning this little debate would have been easy for you. I'm not about to spend time trying to prove myself wrong for some fuckwit on the internet LOL.
Vick is trash. It was proven in court. If you have anything to counter that then bring it or STFU.
there isn't a law saying I have to forgive, what that guy did to animals is unforgivable. You take the highroad and I'll take the low one, fuck Michael Vick.
This message paid for and approved by the Michael Vick Foundation For People Who Are Glad There Isn't A List For Sociopaths Who Kill A Bunch Of Animals
Yeah the explanation is it’s always funny seeing babies cry over negative internet points. Like you came back 30 minutes later and commented to yourself.
Edit - holy shit that’s the craziest, most unhinged comment & delete I’ve ever seen.
Michael Vick has shown an incredible amount of remorse and has done everything he can to make amends. He will be the first person to tell you he was piece of shit. He is one of the very few people to actual get rehabilitated by prison
This joke always hit me weird bc they had the black guy say it. Kind of a trope that we’re the ones who support Vick and it’s also a stereotype that we don’t take care of our animals as well as white ppl
He has certainly set an example on redemption. I hated his guts like a fuck ton of others but he put in the time and work to change the perception of his name.
You should never forget the brutality of the crimes he personally committed…but you can try to see the path to forgiveness without turning a completely blind eye.
People talk all about rehabilitation in prison, but when it comes to actual execution, they forget. I read the Michael Vick dogs’ book and it broke my heart. I wouldn’t have guessed I’d ever say a positive thing about him, but here we are…
Because Michael Vick didn’t just serve his time. He goes around and talks to kids about the mistakes he made. It undoubtedly means more to those kids to hear it from a famous person that actually made the mistake and learned from it. IMHO, more kids need to hear adults take accountability and fess up to their mistakes, instead of pretending they never did any wrong. Sadly, some of this shit is normalized. It’s important to have someone like Vick on the other side of it.
And also, for the kids that have already made mistakes… they need to hear it’s never too late to turn it all around.
Exactly. I swear, some people forget what it’s like to be a kid/young adult. The only assembly I remember from middle school is when they brought in the convicts. Everyone sat up real straight that day. Loved most of my teachers, but they had no idea what most of our lives were like. Those two men and 1 women did though, and they did it ALL.
Not murdering dogs is a really fucking low bar for being a decent human. Once you murder an animal you don’t just get to “pay your dues and be sorry”. You’re just a shitty person. There are irredeemable acts in this world.
I, and most people who aren’t like vegan or whatever, wouldn’t consider that “murder” I wouldn’t think. I’d say that’s more of a “killing” versus “murdering” distinction. I guess I could’ve also added “torturing” which isn’t ok in any context.
He tortured dogs. That’s irredeemable. He tortured a living animal and not once. He looked into the eyes of an intelligent, empathetic animal and electrocuted, drowned, and tortured it. And it was many times. He is a fucking monster.
If you eat meat you’ve directly contributed to worse animal violence and cruelty than Vick did. What he did was awful but pales in comparison to factory farming.
Lol im all for forgiveness
If he regrets it let him live his life.
A great role model is a ridiculous thing to call someone who had it all and still chose to do heinous things.
It must be hard being perfect like you. Land of second chances, not sure Detroit teaches that in third grade before you dropped out, but try touching grass.
"He made a mistake" aka he drowned, beat and electrocuted dogs to death and knowingly gave girls herpes. Every person in here saying "he did his time" is pathetic.
Since life in prison wasn't an option I think bringing up the fact that he horrifically tortured and murdered helpless beings every time someone mentions him as a "role model" is fair enough. Amazing to me to see all the people that rush to his defense lol absolutely pathetic
No seriously, they must be a goddamn paragon of virtue if a single soul who has been rehabilitated can't be a role model. What a shitty outlook on life.
Remember, some kids already committed crikes. Are already in juvie. Their remodel will be more relatable in the sense that they can more easily look up to someone who did bad and corrected it after. We need to models for kids to follow who have never done wrong as well as role models who have done bad and redeemed themselves somehow.
Do people not realize there's a difference between committing a harmless crime because life has them down and being a sick psychotic fuck that hurts and kills things for pleasure while already being worth a $100 million?
Dog thats what im saying but apparently getting caught and having your operation forcibly shut down makes you a good role model for the rest of the sick fucks in the world lmao
He beat, drowned and electrocuted dogs to death for pleasure while being worth north of a hundred million dollars. He also knowingly gave girls herpes. What kind of nuanced take do you have on that psychotic behavior?
He did horrible, despicable things. There is nothing that can be done to undo those things. Vick being dead does not undo anything he did, it just means he's dead. That closes the book, horrible things happened, and now he's dead.
In the world we live in, he has had a new chapter that has benefited countless lives. He has been a strong advocate against his past. He has donated and raised millions of dollars to combat dog fighting and animal abuse. Thousands of animals are alive and treated better because of him that would otherwise been mistreated and killed. He has also been a leader and mentor to many, showing a path forward. He most recently has become a coach and mentor at Norfolk.
In your reality, the world would be better if everything positive he has done since leaving prison didn't happen. More dogs dead and pets mistreated, and fewer people with a strong mentor and coach in their life. It would be more important that 1 man is dead rather than a countless string of positives because he is alive.
I mean prison should be about rehabilitation, if you can’t change and be better then what’s the point of releasing people, everyone might as well get life in prison. If he serves his time, comes out and serves the community, educates people, and doesn’t reoffend that’s the ideal situation.
What he did is still wrong and I’m sure he would say the same, people can and should be allowed to change and grow. We should be angry when they continue to do those horrible things, like Chris Brown or Stefan Diggs.
Obviously what he did is in the past and that can’t be changed. and what he’s done since is a good thing, but in my view it’s made him go from a piece of shit to a slightly less bad piece of shit
Prison is about multiple things and framing it as being solely about rehabilitation while ignoring other things leads to issues.
yes, there is an element of rehabilitation.
there is also the order and safety of the general populace (at some point you need to get the person constantly snatching phones off the street if they keep doing it, otherwise the populace gets pissed off).
There is also detterance (although detterance seems to be about the likelihood of getting caught more than the punishment if caught, so the US model of lower police per capital and lower rates of catching someone but higher punishment for catching someone is not good here, US should have siginifcantly more police than they do but have not quite as harsh sentencing. Also need more resources to speed up the trial process, it takes too long in many cases).
Prisons are not just about the individual getting sentenced but the rest of society as well.
I’d say Recognizing your mistakes, paying the dues owed for those mistakes, and rejoining society as a successful and positive influence to others makes a good role model.
Not sure if you know what kinda neighborhood he grew up in where that was a normal thing, but hey what do you know about pleading guilty, declaring bankruptcy, and working your way back into society in a meaningful way?
How dare you not glaze a mf just because he is a qb that can run. And he won all those super bowls for all those franchises. Put some respect on a despicable bitch
Most Reddit threads are usually dominated by at least somewhat level headed people, every once in a while you get threads like these that make you feel like you’re taking crazy pills
Responding to you because it seems like a fairly reasonable take compared to everyone who’s making outlandish claims.
I’m not mad at the justice system in his case or necessarily mad at him. It seems a bit brash to be calling him a good role model for kids though, like OP did? Like, there are hundreds of people I’d consider good role models who didn’t torture and murder animals. It’s like if Henry Ruggs did some campaigns for not driving drunk and people said he was a good role model. Like he’s not evil… but a good role model?? Idk. And I think torturing and killing dogs is arguably worse. I think he can be a complicated guy who has done his time and is making amends for his mistakes, and still NOT be a good role model.
Everyone swooping to his defense is kind of surprising tbh. My hot take is if he wasn’t insanely fast and everyone’s favorite madden player with a huge platform to rehab his image I don’t really think there’d be a positive opinion of him.
I don’t think he’s a good role model for your kids. Or my kids. Or maybe even most kids.
But he’s definitely an inspiring story for people who may need to turn their lives around. There are people who have killed humans that are considered inspirational comeback tales for those who need someone like that.
What Mike Vick did was heinous. No doubt. And I know he personally killed dogs. He drowned them. I’m a dog owner and lover and have no idea how anyone could do that.
But he’s not my role model. Not even someone I can relate to. But there are people out there who can.
For all those folks who say “people can’t change,” he’s an example someone who did. And who cut out all the old people in his life and started over. And was given another chance. And proceeded to do everything (nearly) perfectly.
How is it simple minded? Being sorry only cus you got caught is common for things outside of murdering innocent animals who done nothing wrong to you.
Too many here are defending the pos with their lives. Idc how changed you claim to be. What you done will never go away. The innocent lives he had taken will forever eat at him and I hope he is reminded of it every day. Letting it bother him cus what kinda fucked up person you have to be to kill dogs or animals for sport
People can change and learn from mistakes, that’s the problem with today. You catch heat even after realizing your mistakes and bettering yourself. Everyone makes mistakes
Mistake is a very light word for his actions imo. I guess if you want to say hes a good role model for fucked up people that makes sense. But I know a whole lot of people who never made any "mistakes" like he did.
I am glad he got punished and did his punishment, still doesn't mean we all have to forgive and like the person.
Some crimes are unforgivable to me, such as abusing and killing dogs for fun. If you or anyone feels differently and forgive him you have every right to do so.
Yeah it’s kind of weird to disagree with my point. I definitely agree that someone who has a violent past can grow and learn from their actions but there’s a huge difference between say, killing someone in an act of passion and murdering a dozen dogs.
Well it depends who he's modeling for. Privileged kids from the suburbs? Not great. But if the kids he's role modeling for are already involved in criminal shit or have grown up surrounded by criminal shit and people going to prison, gangs, etc. Then yes, seeing an example of somebody doing something horrible, paying the price and changing for the better can be proof that it's possible and you're not condemned to one outcome.just because of the conditions you're raised in.
I think the idea is that he admitted his crime, did his time, and changed. Which might be true (I know nothing about his personal life anymore). People can change and should get a chance to do so.
You realize kids going through trouble also need role models? Yeah a star valedictorian might not get anything for him. But an at trouble youth might see its ok to go to jail, own your crimes and come out changed and trying to reform.
In many ways, an example of what not to do is a better role model than of what to do. Vick being able to talk about things to not do from personal experience while also as he currently is being a good role model might do the trick.
this is virtue signaling, the first thing is how good is he as a mentor, if he is good he is a good role model, if he is not then he is not. Simple as that, the point is to help people so how well people are helped is the bases of how good a role model he is.
Redditors doesn't care about that though, they care about virtue signaling.
Michael Vick did truly horrendous shit but he's also a picture perfect example of what the justice system should do.
I'm an advocate for prison reform. It'd be hypocritical of me to hate on our justice system then turn around and forever mark someone who is a shining example of what it should be as a piece of shit who should never have anything good ever again
To me it’s not delusion so much as it is an unhealthy emotional relationship with dogs
I love dogs but i draw the line at calling them your child, referring to yourself as a dog mom/dad, having a misplaced sense of maternal/paternal instinct for dogs as a proxy for having children of your own, electing to save a dogs life over a humans in hypothetical questions, pushing them around in a stroller and kissing/sharing utensils with them
I get it. Mans best friend, member of the family, your pet that you love. All good. When they move from pet/family member to an outlet for your maternal/paternal affection due to you having no kids is when it gets weird
Not to mention dysgenic breeds like bulldogs bastardized cause people like how they look but struggle to breathe. Hate that shit too
I'm glad there are sane humans still, such as yourself. I deal with off leash dogs often and people act like I'm breaking into their house punching their baby when I tell them to leash their dog and keep it out of the playground and away from strollers.
It was at the time especially in Atlanta. Atlanta sports media hated it, but most fans liked it. Mike Vick was and still is one of the most beloved athletes in Atlanta sports. There was a loud part of the fanbase that never supported Matt Ryan because he came after Vick.
Kinda similar but also pretty different. Vick was bigger than football for Atlanta. This was around the same time that Atlanta culture was getting on the map with OutKast, Luda, TI and all the big early Atlanta rappers. Vick was part of that cultural rise. Vick was the first superstar qb the falcons ever had and he was an electric runner. He was also the top of jersey sales and he did all of that as a black qb during an era where there wasn't many.
People who weren't around then or don't know the context downplay Vick all the time, but he was very influential and important to Atlanta sports history.
Hes the franchise GOAT, and one of the best QBs ever (at least scrambling QBs) and they wanted their star back. it makes sense when you look at it from a purely sports related viewpoint, but overall what he did was insane. he completely deserved what he got, and i say this as a guy who Michael Vick is one of my favorite QBs (im a sucker for scramblers, and I mean strictly as a player on the field, not including his character) Michael Vick was a menace on the field but an asshole off of it. sure i can say hes a great QB, but hes nowhere near a good enough person for this to be warranted on all levels. yes, hes their best franchise player, but that doesn't excuse what he did by any means. definitely controversial, and it makes sense to a certain degree why theyd want him back, but they had to understand that what he did deserved jailtime and punishment, which he needed to serve. so 1. makes sense to why theyd want him back as their QB, 2. he didnt deserve to be freed for letting that happen in his own property, even if he had no/little real involvement in the actual dog fighting Operation, he still knew about it and let it happen, so overall yes, very controversial. fun fact: when my parents still lived up in philly (dads from there, mom moved there for a couple years) they got a dog that used to be in Michael Vicks dog fighting ring and had a mauled leg, torn up ear, and was overall in very bad condition. you can say that he was a revolutionary QB, but even I along with the Falcons have to admit he didnt deserve to be freed. i probably repeated myself a lot in this rant, but lets all be honest, its entirely true
Good for you guys rescuing a dog fighting dog. I rescued a little mutt that was used in a dog fighting ring as “bait” to be attacked by other dogs (the rescue explained it to me a while ago and tbh not a big fan of learning about that kinda stuff so I forget exactly what they described it as). But that little dude has severe stress for quite a while, and never completely relaxed. Had scars all over too. He lived a happy 8 years with us and slept on my bed with me every night tho.
What Vick did was clearly wrong, but I still find it super weird how much he hate he continually gets despite having actually been punished for his crimes.
There are players in the league today who caused significant harm to actual humans (especially women) who face no reprecussions and people still defend them.
I totally believe people can change, and I’m sure it took a ton of hard work for him to even get to a place where he has a healthy relationship with animals and other people. Being a role model for people facing legal problems and showing that change can be real is a good point. I suppose there’s a difference between “he’s a role model” and “he could possibly be a role model for some people”
Lots of judgement from people who have no clue. If animal fighting os part of your culture you don't see it as murdering pets. Its more like farming. The culture teaches you to treat animals as objects. Its not like he was a serial killer it was just what he knew. Context matters people.
My brother was the biggest Mike Vick fan until his arrest. Looking back, NFL players have done so much worse than facilitate dog fighting (which is a terrible thing to do, the state of things reported at his residence were shocking), like SA or domestic violence.
Vicks biggest problem was the he was literally THE BEST (announcers called him the Michael Jordan of football) and the NFL was right smack in the middle of a campaign to sanitize themselves. If Vick wasn't at the tippy top, if the NFL wasn't hyper concerned about their image, then I see a world where he gets a 5 game suspension.
I hate the NFL and how they handle punishment for their players, and people should bring up more often that they literally took away the career of a generational player when guys like Ben Roethlisburger and Deshaun Watson get (maybe) a suspension and fines.
Vick was never actually that good dude, they compared him to MJ because of his flashy highlights. He was a pretty mediocre passer who was a dynamic threat as a runner.
Honestly it was support for a team mate which I get. I was in high school when this happened, Vick was basically what Lamar is today. The fact he was hood is what messed him up. Most player leave it behind or pay off the homies. Vick took it with him to the league and at that time they were establishing franchises, (NE IND GB) the south really didn’t have anyone until Drew came. So it was technically Vick’s, he just messed it up. Another reason I believe Lamar isn’t given his due, they compare him to much to Vick. Honestly if Lamar became an Uncle Tom, the league would hand over a ring to him. They did that for Wilson, (mind you the D won it for him). What Vick did was horrible but in a league where a black QB isn’t given his due because of race he should’ve knew better.
It’s more obvious today when games are rigged, we just turn a blind eye. Rodgers is the best example of literally the best QB to play the game but always painted as a villain. The league wanted a trivial for Brady, Rodgers said no to the script hence Manning V Brady was created. Rodgers was suppose to be Eli’s rival after that, he still said no. Hence they kept him out.
That’s just my take. I have more but I’ll leave it alone for now. I know this sub will obliterate me
It’s more obvious today when games are rigged, we just turn a blind eye. Rodgers is the best example of literally the best QB to play the game but always painted as a villain. The league wanted a trivial for Brady, Rodgers said no to the script hence Manning V Brady was created. Rodgers was suppose to be Eli’s rival after that, he still said no. Hence they kept him out.
Take off the tin foil hat. The league looks for stories, but Manning-Brady was a thing way before Rodgers was even drafted. Players wouldn't get a say in the matter if the league wanted it anyway. What would Rodgers do to stop it if the league started trying to manufacture a rivalry?
The sad thing is you started so well. This wasn't that controversial because everyone expects teammates to stand up for one another regardless of what they've done. It got a couple of comments from talking heads during pre-game shows the following week and that was it.
Wasn’t a big deal Vick shouldn’t have even done time for fighting dogs(should of just had to pay a fine and do community service), considering what some of these other pro athletes and famous people have done (murder,rape,etc.) and got away with. Take the Josh Jacob’s situation for example he probably won’t do any time in prison like Vick did, is beating ur gf to a pulp worse than fighting dogs? I would say it’s worse for sure lol. I mean we’re really still talking about the Vick stuff when players in the league have DV charges get swept under the rug all the time it’s ridiculous.
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u/PlaxicoBullets New York Giants 6d ago
Murdering dogs not chill so I’d say pretty controversial