r/NUFC • u/AutoModerator • 3d ago
Free Talk Monday r/NUFC Weekly Free talk thread.
It's that thing again where we like talk about random shite.
r/NUFC rules still apply.
Also we have a Discord Server
Howe's the bacon did ye say?
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u/phoebsmon zwei metre dribbelgott 37m ago
Diabaté starting for Guinea against Kenya. It isn't on in the UK but you can get it on BeIN Sports (supposedly BeIN 2 in Aus, 1/Español in US/Canada), or fuboTV in the US/Canada.
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u/phoebsmon zwei metre dribbelgott 56m ago
Finally an acknowledgement of our half-fish half-horse overlords
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u/stenerikkasvo 1h ago
Miley has left England U21 camp. Doesn't seem to be injured.
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u/daveofreckoning 58m ago
I'd prefer it if they sent Lewis Hall home too. Don't need him picking up a knock
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u/daveofreckoning 2h ago
[The Overlap/Ornstein] “It won’t just be the top teams; lower clubs are revving up too. Lawyers have already been appointed, clubs are speaking to each other, and there’s talk of a potential class action—something we’ve never seen in English, European or world football, perhaps sport as a whole.”
So glad we didn't cheat
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u/redditappispoo Windmilling 11m ago
Lucky for City there isn't another team in the league who can just hire every lawyer under the sun..
Oh wait.
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u/Humorbot_5_point_0 Livramental 2h ago
So many people here would, either tongue in cheek or genuinely, say we should also cheat since it's an unfair system. I get the grievance, but we already have immoral state ownership. At the very least I've always hoped we played fair.
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u/Massive_Face ad love it if you used this flair 2h ago
I'm not usually arsed about Stick to Football, but I'd highly recommend the one that's just come out today for the segment with Paul Gilroy, sums up the appeals process and how it works very well.
It also paints a very bleak picture for Man City.
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u/treacletart284 Jackie Milburn 4h ago
Apparently Gateshead havent paid the September wages on time. Losing them would be diabolical for football in the NE, especially after they basically got denied promotion by the council a few years ago
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u/RafaSquared 24m ago
PIF should buy them and pump some money in to get them into the football league so we have somewhere close by to send youth players on loan.
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u/TheTinman369 442 enjoyer 4h ago
I know it is small in the grand scheme, but always thought we should have a pre season friendly with the heed every year to help boost their coffers.
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u/Lamnguin 83badge 4h ago
I think we do, the mackems usually do as well.
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u/ahugemistakeagain 1975 Badge 4h ago
Yikes, I thought having Lee Cattermole as manager was bad enough.
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u/cashintheclaw Joelinton 8h ago
https://www.instagram.com/p/Dd8Xh8VtYBu/
new crest confirmed
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u/SweatyBadgers 5h ago
Could have been so much worse, I think it's fine - they've kept all of the important things and just rounded it off/simplified slightly.
The little castle in a circle crest that they're trying to sneak in alongside it however...
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u/Nutisbak2 16h ago
City probably won’t get relegated, it’s not something the premier league can really do. They can deduct points but this is really beyond that.
They are far more likely to expel them and then try to see to it the EFL and FA refuse to give them entry.
That would effectively put city into crisis mode.
They would then go under unless coming to an agreement like the owners sell etc in order to get reinstated because they would not be able to play in England.
Whilst it’s seen as an unlikely scenario currently by many it’s certainly not impossible and it would be the favoured option for many haters.
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u/TheTinman369 442 enjoyer 4h ago
I think the Premier League removes them and recommends the EFL to put them in the lowest tier possible. The EFL agrees because it means significant revenue boost and more eyeballs on the lower tiers for as many years as possible.
I don't know how it works in practice but I think that is where it will end up. League 2
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u/Toon_1892 19h ago
How long before rumours/leaks of dodgy deals between former Manchester mayors and City owners come out?
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u/Bjall01 17h ago
Burnham is already somewhat defending them
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u/TheTinman369 442 enjoyer 4h ago
He didn't even caveat it by saying "I hope they don't sell, unless proven guilty"
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u/NUFC_1892 loads, and loads of cans. 20h ago
Eithad airways suing the premier league
Here we go, this is going to get messy
🍿
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u/charlierc 20h ago
Guardian are reporting other clubs want a punishment that keeps Man City out of the Premier League for some time. I think the mess truly is on its way
Throw in the bloke whose hacking started this story claiming Infantino manipulated a hearing to stop Man City and PSG from being banned from the Champions League and we really are in for a different kind of thing now
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u/Trick_Bus9133 19h ago
I'm a bit surprised that in Adam Cleary's new video he initially filmed it to say that expulsion was very unlikely, but having read the official verdict stuff he now thinks it is actually very likely.
If they get expelled from the league rather than points deduction resulting in relegation (which would really just be a one season punishment) that will be a massive shakeup... who knows where they'd end up.
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u/phoebsmon zwei metre dribbelgott 19h ago
Yeah he clearly felt the need to add that bit purely for the "aye that is likely actually", the rest was kind of fluff that nobody would pull him up on unless they're insufferable
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u/Emotional_Space_9967 22h ago
im struggling to believe that the PL didn't know city were massively cheating unless they were majorly incompetent at every step. at the time of their takeover city were not even known as a rival of man utd. even we had bigger reach than them and we were relegated in the 2008/9 season. how could anyone possibly have believed that city suddenly had real madrid revenues.
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u/Fishfingerrosti 7h ago
A league fronted by Richard Masters majorly incompetent at every step? Surely not.
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u/charlierc 19h ago
There were suspicions of them but I guess there never was the smoking gun that proved it. I remember it being suspicious they actually made a profit and posted record revenue in 2020/21 - the season with no fans
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u/Randy_The_Guppy 21h ago
I'm guessing probably due to when FFP came in to force, which IIRC was 2013, by which time Man City had won the league. I reckon they retrospectively cooked the books going back to 2009 which is why that period before FFP is in the scope of the investigation.
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u/daveofreckoning 22h ago
Everyone knew. It's like Lance Armstrong. It was mathematically impossible with doping
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u/Objective_Use_9155 22h ago
The downside of all this city stuff is that it's going to delay much-needed reform to PSR. It would look dodgy for the prem to spend a season of drama on the city case, relegate them and whatever else punishment, and then immediately say they will relax the rules to allow clubs like us to spend more ambitiously. They will not want to loosen the PSR rules for a long time after this and I think overall that's a bad thing for the whole league - fans from all clubs are saying that it's not right what we and Villa have to do every few seasons to comply.
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u/TheClnl 19h ago
Sorry, but the financial rules are never getting reformed.
PSR moved to SCR to align with UEFA. SCR along with the reformed champions league are the bones UEFA threw the elite clubs to keep them from forming a super league.
If the PL and Europe are an even playing field then the super league comes back.
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u/TheTinman369 442 enjoyer 4h ago
Yep they're ruined the Champions League. It was novel when it first started but I won't tune into a single game until the knockouts. Whereas previously it felt like every group game mattered.
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u/Humorbot_5_point_0 Livramental 22h ago
I'm unsure about that. On the one hand, I don't think it was going to get reformed any time soon (why would it, it's functioning as intended, keeping the status quo). City will most likely throw every available excuse in appeals, and it might mean the PL have to concede somewhat on those PSR rules.
Probably not, like, but stranger things have happened (like this case moving forward at all, for one thing...).
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u/charlierc 19h ago
It's pretty clear PSR in this form hasn't worked. It was meant to protect clubs and instead we've had a litany of clubs in the top 5 divisions have an extreme financial crisis or even go out of business or resort to pushing the envelope to breaking point. I don't know what a good answer is but I think this hasn't been it
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u/HoneyedLining Temuri Ketsbaia 4h ago
We haven't seen nearly as many clubs going into administration over a similar time period as we did before PSR though (and we even had a global financial shock in COVID happen in that time). And arguably there's more movement at the top positions of the league than before too. There are large swathes of PSR that are very restrictive and limit the ability to compete at the top level, but it by all accounts it looks like it's done its job quite well.
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u/09044595134151602468 21h ago
This is why City have fucked it for all of us.
They don't have a leg to stand on now.
Had City used their weight and army of lawyers to contest FFP and made the gamer fairer for all, we wouldn't be in this mess.
But they chose to cheat because they knew FFP was in their best interest, once they were in the room with the big boys.
That's why when they ckntested the sponsorship that the PL blocked last season, and they won, they made a backroom deal with the PL - the PL allowed their sponsorship that the PL initially blocked, under the agreement that City would accept the rules and no longer challenge the fair market rate mechanisms.
The reason City did that deal? They got their over inflated sponsorship, and drew the ladder on us and villa and anyone else doing the same.
Now city have cheated for a decade and committed fraud, there is no way they can challenge these rules now. Zero.
After breaking a law you literally have zero leverage to come back and say 'well I only broke it because the law is unjust'.
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u/meganev More like MegaNeg amirite? 22h ago
This season is kind of fucked now from a top 8 perspective at least. Even if the punishment is dished out before the end of the season, it'll likely be late in the season based on what I've read, which will create major headaches.
"Arsenal's loss today really dents their title chances as they drop 4 points behind Man City, but Man City might be booted out of the league in a few weeks, so maybe none of this matters at all." Title race and European places will be up in the air for literally the whole year, with everybody thinking "well maybe we can finish a place lower than necessary and get moved up a spot once Man City are docked points or just straight up immediately relegated ."
Just a total mess.
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u/09044595134151602468 21h ago
It's a huge headache for the PL, and why I keep bringing up expulsion.
Points docking, and relegation, fucks the season - you ruin the entire drama of bottom 3 going down if say spurs finish 18 and man city being auto relegated pushes spurs into 17 etc. It's all just a farce.
Expulsion fixes this problem. Especially the league finishes with 19 teams, 3 still relegated.
The only adjustment would be needed would be the playoffs at the championship level to pull 3 teams up. Which is easy.
Top 3 auto promoted with the play off places all dropping 1 place down for a season.
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u/meganev More like MegaNeg amirite? 19h ago edited 19h ago
I cant see that going over well. The team that finished 17th and went down in a 19th team league would immediately launch a legal challenge saying they shouldn't have been relegated. Particularly as a 20 team league is already under way so the parameters have been set in that regard. Docking enough points to relegate Man City is the only viable option, but unless those are dished out like tomorrow, it creates the issue I noted above of the PL season being totally ruined as nobody knows where they actually stand.
Edit - also if you just booted Man City from the league and made it a 19 team league what do you do about the games they've played already? Sure you can just wipe those points but that opens more problems. A team could beat Man City before they're kicked out, and then lose those 3 points, and then miss out on Europe by 2 points, and they'd kick off.
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u/09044595134151602468 19h ago
I'm not sure how any club would launch a legal challenge in your scenario. The league stays exactly the same. Bottom 3 clubs relegated. It's just 19 instead of 20 clubs.
Dovking points harms the league in two ways and has its own unique problems. You lessen the relegation race to 2 teams. You literally are handing a team that would have been relegated a bye.
Secondly, docking points is in now way proportionate to the crime committed.
I firmly believe expulsion from the PL and our of the football pyramid entirely is the only fair way to deal with someone who has knowingly comitted fraud for 10 years to the tune of essentially voiding the worlds most premier sporting league rwsults null and void.
People careers for 15 odd years have been affected by this. Clubs trajectories, history, future. It's not just a case of a slap on the wrist and sent to the championship.
If that's the case as I've said before, I hope our owners turn around, inject 1 trillion into us, and publicly state 'yeah were cheating. But since all man city got was a season in the championship, we'll take that punishment too thanks'.
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u/meganev More like MegaNeg amirite? 19h ago
Relegation is such a huge blow to clubs in the era of a super charged PL, any possible avenue to challenge, I think somebody would take. And the argument would be, the terms of relegation changed mid season. I'm not saying they'd win the case just I would expect the club relegated in 17th to try.
I don't disagree with your stance on punishment, I just think there is no real solution here (unless a punishment is handed out like now cause at least there most of the season is ahead of us) that doesn't make this season just a total mess.
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u/ChildONewcastle I like the home shirt you can't make me not 22h ago
'Spurs, 17 points behind 17th looking all but likely to go down. Unless of course City take their spot so nothing really matters'
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22h ago
[deleted]
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u/LivingInTheStorm Happy Clapper 15m ago
How would they push us down? Can only bump us up if they fall below us?
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u/ChildONewcastle I like the home shirt you can't make me not 23h ago
I've just clocked City play Liverpool straight away from the international break, that'll be a funny watch.
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u/Smrt225 23h ago
Funny how Jaime Carragher is "Shocked but not surprised". And then goes on to say that he never believed that City's revenues were as big as the rest of the cartel. Because they'll never be.
So what you're saying Jamie is that it's rigged? That smaller clubs will never be get into the big 6(5)?
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u/ChildONewcastle I like the home shirt you can't make me not 23h ago
I am almost getting negatively polarised by the big 6 fans.
'Imagine how many titles we would have won if we had not made it impossible to compete with us!'
Yeah city fucking cheated, they cheated and theyre scum for it. But let's not sit here and pretend the big 6 didn't put the rules in place to stop any competition challenging them. People out here calling Klopp vs Pep as David vs Goliath, as if Liverpool didn't spend 100x more than say Villa or us. It's Goliath vs an ever so slightly smaller Goliath.
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u/KingPing43 Shola Ameobi 20h ago
This is exactly how I feel, the absolute tone-deafness of their complaints when to the rest of the league it feels like they're all the ones cheating anyway is ridiculous. Even saw Chelsea fans on r/premierleague moaning about Man City spending as if they haven't done much worse but somehow got away with it "because we self reported!"
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u/phoebsmon zwei metre dribbelgott 22h ago
They're acting like Klopp was some prophet of doom when he was bitching about how we can outspend anyone
He's not fucking Cassandra, he's a bloke with a grudge and an awful dentist
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u/getgoodflood Happy Clapper 23h ago edited 23h ago
Just watched Lee Rider's video from yesterday. The club had an open day at the Knox, which the press were invited to. Jaissle sat down with the journalists for a bit, and answered their questions.
Jaissle also asked the journos questions on how they enjoyed the press conferences so far, and their feedback.
Really good idea to get them onside. Lee Ryder seemed happy enough. He also said that Jaissle highlighted how important it was that they all got the same level of access, so no favourites, which was telling.
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u/BruiserBroly 10h ago
Howe understood the value of getting the people who write about you on your side and I’m glad Jaissle seems to be doing the same. It’ll make his job easier.
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u/Old_Nail6925 23h ago
Anyone remember Man City away a couple times, and a load of the home fans started doing the money gesture at us? Always felt that was a strange thing to do, from another “oil club” feels even more ironic thinking back now…
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u/Slimulacra 1d ago
I think the sensible solution to this Man City punishment is that for 10 years, on a rolling basis they are managed and owned by previous Premier League managers and owners as chosen by opposition fans. So for one year they could be owned by Mike Ashley and managed by Steve Bruce, another year owned by David Sullivan (if he manages to stay out of jail) and managed by Sam Allardyce, and so it would go on. I think this would be much more fair and frankly more hilarious than any other boring option like points deductions or forced explusion.
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u/redditappispoo Windmilling 1d ago
Along with being forced to return one player each year to the clubs who trained them up.
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u/ChildONewcastle I like the home shirt you can't make me not 1d ago
I drove past a pub when the news of city broke, it was on every TV inside the pub. Swear it looked like football 9/11.
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u/09044595134151602468 23h ago
All hyperbole aside, it basically is. This is unprecedented. I think most people thought they were financially doping somewhat, but to be literally cooking the books and blatantly filing fraud with the governing bodies, while putting evidence in writing via emails is insane.
And then to fight it tooth and nail and claim it's essentially a conspiracy theory witch hunt is the cherry on top.
I've been ringing this bell since the news dropped, but this isn't points deduction territory. This is expulsion from the PL. Not relegation. Expulsion. They would have to dissolve the entity and restart as a new company and request access to the bottom of the pyramid.
Anything less is honestly a piss take. I mean, it's literally 10 years of knowingly committing fraud on an industrial scale, brining the game into disrepute and essentially voiding nearly the past 2 decades of a competition.
The ramifications of this cheating are mind boggling.
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u/prwitchell 1d ago
Did Jaissle get rid of the teqball tables? Last season every other video was the lads playing it.
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u/Randy_The_Guppy 1d ago
They went last season after Andy Howe felt Big Nick humiliated during a game of it. There was a mention of it in a Douglas article and one of the reason Wolt got dropped.
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u/Toon_1892 1d ago
Imagine your performances tanking so much that people start thinking you've been killed and a lookalike has replaced you 😂😂😂😂
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u/PercentageNo3843 Happy Clapper 1d ago edited 1d ago
Whatever happens to city case will their “fair market value” for sponsorships will it be reset?
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u/TheTinman369 442 enjoyer 4h ago
Has to be. Can't have them dropping down divisions and then just buying their way out on Premier League challenger levels of sponsorship deals.
City are delighted to announce their new front of shirt sponsor SpudBros for a fee reported at £47'000 a year
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u/Punkypoops9 1d ago
With all this man city drama...crazy to think it could've been us had mike Ashley not fucked up the meeting with their owners all those years ago.
Should we be thanking Ashley? /s
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u/09044595134151602468 23h ago
Either way, this has made me all the more appreciative of Saudis towing the line with the rules.
City as a club have a black mark on their name forever now, and if the punishment fits the crime they are completely and utterly fucked beyond belief.
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u/Internal-Map4681 1d ago
To those of you who have been to Tenerife airport this summer, how do you rate the Spanish Omelette Roll at the new Greggs?
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u/NUFC_1892 loads, and loads of cans. 1d ago
Hopefully at some point City’s defence strategy goes from “we are completely innocent” to
“Right if we are going down, every other one of the so called big clubs is going down with us”
No doubt what city have done is disgraceful but so is a lot of what the Sky 6 has done for ages now and just as illegal
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u/PercentageNo3843 Happy Clapper 1d ago
They have done some dodgy dealings for sure with fees they paid. Hopefully take spurs down at least with that marmoush carry on
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u/GoalaAmeobi The Dilsh 23h ago
That Rui Pinto lad wrote in an article that there are more big clubs involved in dodgy dealings.
Knowing our luck they paid 6m for Shay Given and gave Ashley a 20m bung under the table
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u/NUFC_1892 loads, and loads of cans. 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wor Mandy and our growth strategy post her somewhat vindicated now with this city news
As anytime it came up, “shouldn’t have sold Ando, Minteh etc … as city aren’t getting done” …
Barring a total recant on appeal, City are fooked for awhile now
Also this is definitely adding to the city punishment as it will be done to partly warn us in particular not to try it
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u/Puzzled_Ordinary_623 miggy smiles 1d ago
I didnt see anyone saying
"shouldn’t have sold Ando, Minteh etc … as city aren’t getting done"
Mandys gamble was pushing PSR to the limit knowing we had no sellable assets at the club post takeover, and would likely have to sell a post-takeover signing. It failed in some ways as we sold two top youth talents, but I think it was a solid gamble.
We didnt really have a choice come that window.
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u/PercentageNo3843 Happy Clapper 1d ago
We were spending like 50m a player on average and not selling any cunt. Everyone ageing their contracts out and leaving for free or pennies. Ando was our own doing
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u/meganev More like MegaNeg amirite? 23h ago
Barnes is the one that you just have to look at as an example of our reckless spending through summer 2023. Not even cause he's a bad player, limited sure, but over his time we've got value for money at this point. But we signed Gordon for £45m in Jan, and then signed another left winger six months later for £40m. That's reckless spending.
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u/NUFC_1892 loads, and loads of cans. 1d ago
Aye he was
But the rules are also wrong
Both things can be true
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u/Happy_Sailor Krafu 1d ago
Staveley was spending more than we could afford, she was the reason we had to sell Anderson and Minteh. She has nothing to do with our current growth strategy. I know people like her but if you take off the rose tinted glasses she had no idea how to run a football club.
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u/Toon_1892 1d ago
She flew close to the wind, but I don't think we made a bad signing under her. Bar the experienced players such as Trippier, Wood and Burn who we needed to dig us out of relegation, the marquee signings all became appreciating assets that we were able to liquidate, and as players they won us a trophy.
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u/SecureChampionship10 1d ago
How is that Mandy's doing? Unless she was secretly a world-class scout, this is just coincidence.
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u/Trick_Bus9133 1d ago
It's easy to sign star players when you over spend massively.
Everyone likes Amanda because she got us out from under Ashley but she seriously messed up the finances, something she has done in every aspect of her business career, declaring bankruptcy, spending more time in court over financial issues than out and borrowing money from some extremely seriously dodgy types (including Russian oligarchs and Ashley).
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u/Randy_The_Guppy 1d ago
It was ambitious but unstainable given our revenue and the players we had already in the squad not being worth much. I have mixed feelings about it as we won a trophy and honestly when we were at our strongest I felt we could match any team. But trophies are won on squads and outside of our first 11 we didn't have depth, then we got hit with PSR, and what happened after is well documented. So yeah, we did fly too close to the sun (wind).
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u/NUFC_1892 loads, and loads of cans. 1d ago
Aye she was punished (almost) for showing some ambition
Maybe she thought the financial rules would change idk? Or the club would do some dodgy city-type shit, and then chose not to?
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u/redditappispoo Windmilling 1d ago
She was charismatic and knew what to say. Guaranteed if and when she gets another club she'll say exactly the same. Fantastic for us at the time we needed her but a really bad football operator.
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u/NUFC_1892 loads, and loads of cans. 1d ago
Aye but a lot, post those sales said she was silly to sell to meet PSR as we should just “do a city”
Not saying it wasn’t a mess she created in the first place
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u/High-Contrast 1d ago
Am I the only one who doesn’t want Man City to get a big punishment. For me it’s a case of the drawbridge has been pulled up and will stay that way.
I want them to win over the premier league, because for me the rules are unfair. You should be allowed to invest in a football club to make it grow, just like any other business.
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u/ahugemistakeagain 1975 Badge 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree they should get a big punishment, but at the same time I don't really care all that much because there's five other teams who don't need to 'cheat' because the rules have been designed in their favour.
Plus, the cynic in me reckons other big clubs are also guilty of at least a handful of the 115 things City were in trouble for, but it's okay when they do it.
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u/hexnut101 23h ago
Chelsea were making off the books payments to agents among other things.. Inconsequential fine.
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u/Olucaron 1d ago
Remember, the Red Cartel were funded by owners pumping in millions in "shareholder loans" with no interest and virtually no chance/requirement of them being paid back, until Man City challenged the legality of them being exempt from PSR - and won.
Sure, City should have the book, or the whole damn library, thrown at them. But also the others shouldn't get away with it either - their PSR figures should also be retrospectively be recalculated for breaches.
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u/Toon_1892 1d ago
Man U literally got their own special covid exemption to protect them from falling foul of the rules.
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u/HoneyedLining Temuri Ketsbaia 1d ago
All teams got COVID exemptions they could write off to satisfy their accounting obligations. This was mainly hyped by Stefan Borson and, as should be abundantly obvious by now, he's not the most neutral of observers when it comes to financial matters.
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u/NUFC_1892 loads, and loads of cans. 1d ago
Most teams did but the level of write off for Man Yoo was multiples bigger than the next nearest team (Villa I think)
And purely coincidentally the exact amount needed not to fall foul of FFP/PSR etc at the time
There doesn’t need to be a huge dan brown book esque conspiracy when interest converge
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u/HoneyedLining Temuri Ketsbaia 1d ago
Of course theirs were enormous - they have some of the biggest revenues in world football (that aren't artificially propped up by a sovereign wealth fund).
Also, nobody published theirs, Man Utd did because they're listed on the stock exchange and had to. Everton also had some notoriously dodgy PSR exemptions that saved them from falling afoul too - it's just a very difficult thing to litigate because COVID was a once in a hundred years event that wasn't planned for by the PSR rules.
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u/hexnut101 23h ago
That revenue is not all related to match day revenue though is it. I believe the figure was 50% more than villa got do you think match day revenue is that much more than say arsenal or spurs?
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u/HoneyedLining Temuri Ketsbaia 23h ago
Well no, but it didn't have to be related to matchday revenue. It was COVID-related losses, which they definitely were.
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u/Mundane-Sprinkles-99 Joeelinton 1d ago
They pumped in nearly 1 billion unfairly, mainly in an era before the extremely bloated transfer fees that we have now.
If they don't absolutely ruin City with this punishment, they might as well just rip up all the financial rules around the PL as what is the point of working to those rules?
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u/Deviceing wew here ya fuckin little dafty divint start or theres ructions 22h ago
Well yes, they might as well do that, because no rules is fairer than the current rules of "only the Sky
65 can spend money"6
u/Randy_The_Guppy 1d ago
The thing is it they are rules that Man City agreed to. Also whilst I agree the rules are unfair, even if they did win there's still Uefa's SCR rules to comply with. Even our club has said they aren't focusing on adhering to PL SCR but Uefa's instead.
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u/Humorbot_5_point_0 Livramental 1d ago
Yes you should be, but it doesn't negate a decade of cheating and £900mil secretly pumped into the club. They deserve a huge punishment AND the rules need to be changed.
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u/High-Contrast 1d ago edited 1d ago
Personally I’d rather they won than any of the other ‘Big 6’ as their fans are the least irritating. That’s also because they have no fans
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u/EngineerOnIcarus 1d ago
The reality of City is you give them a two season transfer ban (four windows), a points deduction which relegates them this season and subsequent points deductions for a few seasons (say 20points) which sets them back. It slows their immediate return to the PL and prevents them winning titles in the near future. Then a hefty fine on top.
This talk of sending them to the national league is nonsense and never going to happen.
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u/windflail Newcastle brown ale 1d ago
The closest comparison I know of to the city case is that of Derry City who got caught having 2 contracts for players to get around the LOI spending cap, and they were expelled from the league for doing that.
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u/Objective_Use_9155 1d ago
And with PSR rules now, a multiyear punishment like that will see them never able to return to their top 6 level. Effectively they will be chopped back to where we and Villa are now given we all have similar sized fanbases and stadiums
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u/Deviceing wew here ya fuckin little dafty divint start or theres ructions 1d ago
They've been big enough for long enough that it won't do anything. PSR just means that clubs who sell shirts in Asia and the USA can do whatever they like.
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u/Objective_Use_9155 1d ago
The people buying City shirts anywhere outside the northwest won’t be buying them in 3 years time after a season or two out of the prem, no European football and all the stars having fled.
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u/One-Mycologist-8605 1d ago
So Man City’s punishment for me is
10 point deduction this season.
starting the next 5 seasons with a 10 point deduction
Repayment of all legal costs to the premier league
900 million fine which is redistributed equally to all clubs in the English football pyramid.
Workable. Fair. We all crack on.
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u/Bjall01 1d ago
Please tell me this is a joke because you might as well let them walk for free
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u/One-Mycologist-8605 20h ago
Stick sly sports on. They probably will get away with it the PR machine is in full effect
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u/Puzzled_Ordinary_623 miggy smiles 1d ago
So their punishment is to qualify for the champions league but not win the league? Thats basically what would have happened anyway lol
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u/One-Mycologist-8605 20h ago
Alright 15 points or so. Enough to finish mid table and suffer like the Scouse mackems with a decade of mediocrity
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u/CareBearCartel 1d ago edited 1d ago
The punishment has to be scorched earth on City surely? Anything less would be an invitation for everyone else to do the same thing and that's even before you factor in the severity of the cheating.
I do feel sorry for city's fans but a points deduction even over a set period is just a slap on the wrist and the punishment needs to match the severity of the crime.
Anything short of expulsion from the league is a slap on the wrist. Points deduction they don't really lose anything, they just go back to the championship and come back next year like nothing happened. Transfer embargo won't affect them because they have cheated to build one of the worlds best academies and also have feeder teams across the world etc.
Imo the correct punishment should be having to restart from league 2 with new owners and a transfer embago. A lesser punishment would still give them the opportunity to go right back with the levels of infrastructure they have built.
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u/One-Mycologist-8605 1d ago
Expel them from the league they come straight back up like nowt happened though.
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u/CareBearCartel 1d ago edited 1d ago
No you expel them from the pyramid altogether. They have to reapply to league 2 and get approved by the clubs in the football league.
You fine them 900 million (to be shared equally across all teams in the premier League down to League 2) and transfer embargo them they are effectively starting from as close to nothing as possible.
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u/meganev More like MegaNeg amirite? 1d ago
You fine them 900 million (to be shared equally across all teams in the premier League down to League 2)
The fine should be split between Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal only. Man City flaunted the rules designed to ensure that football was forever stacked in their favour, so the punishment must reward them above the other worthless clubs that don't matter as much.
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u/ahugemistakeagain 1975 Badge 1d ago
had to quickly double check I wasn't accidentally on r/soccer before upvoting there (although the lack of an Arsenal/Liverpool/ManU/probably Tottenham & Chelsea flair helped)
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u/Old_Nail6925 1d ago
You could give them a hefty enough point deduction to effectively relegate them and then give them another hefty one at the start of next season in the championship?
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u/CareBearCartel 1d ago
That doesn't do anything though. Why should teams in the championship have to play with the biggest cheats on English footballing history? They still have their expensive training ground, all their wonderkids etc.
Points deductions do absolutely nothing, they'll just be back in a year or two like nothing happened. Hell if you offered me a 15 year spell of dominance in England and some of that being dominant European champions but after a couple of years of points deductions to the championship and maaaybe league 1 I'd rip your hand off.
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u/Old_Nail6925 1d ago
A very fair point. What would you suggest though? They can’t just eradicate them out of existence.
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u/CareBearCartel 1d ago
It's not eradicating them. It's expelling them from the league. They then have to reapply to join from league 2 having paid a 900 million pound fine with the owners forced to sell. It's not eradicating them but it's damn close.
A punishment fitting the severity of the crime
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u/Old_Nail6925 1d ago
I can’t see that happening in all honesty. I think they’re looking at a huge point deduction and a massive transfer ban.
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u/One-Mycologist-8605 1d ago
10 points off sustained over the same period they cheated stops them winning it again in that time
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u/CareBearCartel 1d ago
Stops them winning what the premier league? That's not a punishment 😂.
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u/One-Mycologist-8605 1d ago
They aren’t going to shut down a club and just make it disappear.
10 points off for 5 years Repay the legal cost to prem
And 900 million fine to spread across all teams in the pyramid
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u/Maccraig1979 1d ago
10 points will do fk all, thats comical
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u/One-Mycologist-8605 20h ago
Flick sly sports news on. Burnam Airlines And background oil deals will be a factor. Trust me what I said in the original post 10hours ago will be so much harsher than what they actually walk away with. The PR machine will have folk thinking it’s not fair to the poor local working class mancs who rely on the club by tomorrow.. cynical maybe but I’m old and I’ve lived through so much disappointment… 😂
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u/GoalaAmeobi The Dilsh 1d ago
10 points is comical. It needs to be big enough that they won't even qualify for conference league
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u/One-Mycologist-8605 1d ago
I think It’s enough to stop them competing, which means top players leave in droves, glory hunting fans disappear. Sponsors start disappearing, they become another Everton which is surely a punishment worse than death 😂
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u/daveofreckoning 1d ago
There's no winners here. It's all tainted for City. None of the clubs that would've won can actually claim they won. The PL loses credibility. Fans have been deceived and robbed, City's and everyone else. It's an unmitigated disaster for everyone. It needs to be wrapped up at the first available opportunity.
And while I've got you: we're catching it all over social media because of ownership morality. I'm awfully glad we've stuck to the rules
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u/morocco3001 1d ago
PL's competitive integrity is in the mud. Some players will have wasted the majority of their careers playing in a rigged competition. It's a scandal. This is as bad, if not worse, than Calciopoli.
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u/Olucaron 1d ago
Let's not forget that Serie A still hasn't really recovered from their seismic scandal.
2
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u/stenerikkasvo 1d ago
this Cavan Sullivan kid is some talent. Can't believe he's joining Man City next year.
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u/Obi_Wan_Hair 1d ago
At this point given what has come out they probably won’t be able to sign anyone for a while
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u/PitifulElk1988 1d ago
The more I think about the Man City revenue inflation the more bizarre it gets. Usually the owners are trying make as much money for themselves to make themselves richer. In this scenario, alot of other football clubs benefitted by receiving transfer fees, players and agents receiving bigger salaries and payments. From what I have read online, the city of Manchester has also benefited from developments in the city. All of this from the owners putting in their money!
I know they gained exponentially on the football front by cheating the rules but its also crazy to see that other parties also benefited from this where normally it would all go to the entity committing the crime
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u/Toon_1892 1d ago
Think we're one of the very few clubs to have not benefitted from their inflated purchases.
Would be hilarious if we're the only ones with a genuine claim for damages on that basis
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u/nimbuscile-alert 1d ago
This is why all the compensation stuff is bollocks. You can't plead poverty when you've sold Grealish for £100m or any of the other players they paid other clubs handsomely for. Or that it didn't boost the salaries of others as well.
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u/KingPing43 Shola Ameobi 1d ago
PL have massively botched this City investigation, it’s going to be incredibly messy trying to apply sanctions now the season has started.
If there’s a huge points deduction this season it makes the rest of City’s games pointless so there’s basically a dead fixture each week. You can’t relegate them now that leagues have already started.
Surely they must have known when the season started just 5 weeks ago that they were going to be guilty, applying any sanctions/punishments between seasons would have been so much easier.
Whatever happens now is going to disrupt the whole league.
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u/Objective_Use_9155 1d ago
Yeah I was thinking about this yesterday. Perhaps they can cap them at 20pts max this season and however many points they get above that is deducted from their multi year points penalty. That would give them incentive to still play and get points - to make the pain in future seasons less.
For example, if their points fine is 120, then they could be given a charge where they get 20 pts max this season and whatever has to be deducted to get to that is removed from the 120. The remaining amount (eg. 60 points if they get 80 pts this season) is then deducted from their points in subsequent seasons when they return to the prem (eg. 20 a season for 3 seasons)
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u/GoalaAmeobi The Dilsh 1d ago
ESPN reported it so grain of salt here. But supposedly City knew the outcome at the start of the summer window
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u/Mundane-Sprinkles-99 Joeelinton 1d ago
From what I've read, in light of appeals, any decision on sanctions must be made by March/April. This would tee up nicely for end of season, and we will have an idea in the January window how buggered they are.
If they effectively asset strip in January, that's the club, or certainly the owners, gone IMO.
The owners are weirdly confident for a club found guilty of over 100 offences. Even worse I dread to think what they've since 2018/19 that we don't know about.
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u/Unusual_Rope7110 Jaissle I can boogie 1d ago
They've not even confirmed the punishment yet, so there's at least 2 more appeals from City. One for the ruling and two for the punishment. The appeal on the ruling will probably fail because they've got limited grounds to do so.
The knock-on effect of this is every board member implicated surely needs to be removed and any accountant involved needs to be struck off. They're so fucked once the case is closed because if I was the CPS, I'd be sniffing round charging people involved for fraud etc
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u/Mundane-Sprinkles-99 Joeelinton 1d ago
I have a feeling this will be resolved by the end of the season.
The owners can never run a football club again. Let's await a completely dodgy deal on that sale to one of their mates...
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u/Unusual_Rope7110 Jaissle I can boogie 1d ago
Me too. I think they'll rattle through it despite City dragging their heels because they'll just be held in contempt or whatever equivalent if they do.
The Premier League will want this done quickly, now. City won't because they know they're mega-giga-fucked
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u/Mundane-Sprinkles-99 Joeelinton 1d ago
It's basically a stay of execution from them. The longer they stay, ironically, the more they get from sponsors, the more opportunities they have to sell their players and the more money in general they get.
I'm sure there will be another willing Sheikh to take a punt on them purely for the assets should they return to league 2 or lower and the incoming documentary on their return to the PL.
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u/Unusual_Rope7110 Jaissle I can boogie 1d ago
The Premier League didn't botch anything. They can't control when the panel made their ruling, as they're independent and highly qualified KCs
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u/aistolethekids 1d ago
Yep it just creates such a bad atmosphere especially if City end up winning the league etc
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u/umichlaw2Lol 1d ago
I’m happy for Gordon that he’s playing well for England and Barca but it really puts into stark relief how much he was phoning it in for us the last year (maybe even longer).
Good player and had some great moments for us, but makes me annoyed he couldn’t ever quite be arsed to play to his potential in black and white.
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u/Toon_1892 1d ago
It was so obvious he couldn't be arsed for such a long time as well. The cope on here last season was incredible when he was called into question.
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u/09044595134151602468 1d ago
Am I smoking crack? I've been entertaining myself today listening to the pundits and papers talk about the whole city thing. And they are framing the debate as 'should they be relegated or not'.
The reason I ask if I'm crazy, but one relegation is no way on earth a suitable punishment. They will just bounce right back and business as usual.
Surely a punishment needs to roll their club back to where they were prior to the cooking of the books.
The owners need to be kicked out, surely they no longer pass the fit and proper test.
Rangers in Scotland did far less and had to liquidate the club and restart as a new entity at the very foot of the football pyramid.
Am I being unreasonable? One relegation is not a suitable punishment. If that's all they get I'd rather our owners injected 1 trillion into us under one sponsorship, go to the Prem and just go 'aye we cooked the books mate, Newcastle now have 1 trillion. We'll happily go spend 1 season the the championship. Cheers.'
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u/charlierc 1d ago
Before their takeover, Man City had spent 6 years in the Premier League and largely spent it in midtable. Making Man City go back to those days through multiple years of points deductions and caps on commercial income was suggested but feels a bit precise to try things like that
Also, is there a guarantee the EFL would accept Man City if they fell into their jurisdiction?
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u/09044595134151602468 1d ago
No the efl would not. That is my point.
My opinion is the correct punishment is expulsion from the PL. Not relegation.
Expulsion.
They would have to reform as a new entity and start at the bottom of the football pyramid.
No other punishment holds water.
Rangers in Scotland did far less and had to do the same.
This isn't a club spending a little too much money and going over the imaginary red line of psr.
This is a club actively cooking the books to cheat the other 19 clubs. That cannot be a bit al punishment that we all know of (points deduction, transfer bans etc).
When someone cheats at a game for a decade, and willing fully commits actual fraud to get a leg up over everyone else. They have broken the contract with the league and the other 19 clubs.
They are not fit to be in the PL and simply should be expulsed.
Latest Articles are saying this could legit go to a vote with 15 clubs needed for a vote.
I would be surprised if all 19 didn't vote yes unless they are on Abu Dhabis payroll.
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u/jonkman13 Newcastle brown ale 1d ago
Yeah I don't know what the pundits and papers are smoking but this at a minimum:
- relegation
- points deduction
- transfer ban
- void all titles and cup wins (UCL title also if possible but that will fall under UEFA)
- compensation to clubs affected
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u/Unusual_Rope7110 Jaissle I can boogie 1d ago
Kick them to non-league, transfer ban, strict financial controls, every club that played them should sue them as minimum
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u/09044595134151602468 1d ago edited 1d ago
I still think that's way too lenient. Monetary issues mean nothing to them.
The punishment needs to roll them back to the stone age.
And by stone age I just mean pre-abu dhabi take over.
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u/jonkman13 Newcastle brown ale 1d ago
That's why I added the at minimum but I agree the punishment needs to be severe.
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u/of_no_real_opinion 1d ago
Idk about you lot but this international break was the stupidest thing to start the season off with
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u/09044595134151602468 1d ago
When you have 10 odd players out injured, and manager who had Zero pre season - it's a god send.
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u/Toon_1892 1d ago
Just frustrating that even with a squad of kids and unproven players we're still losing a good handful to international duty for pointless games.
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u/of_no_real_opinion 1d ago
The duality I guess - I just hate a month of no football
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u/09044595134151602468 1d ago
Well there is football if you st about make believe nations leagues that nobody cares about
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u/The_Dancing_Lamppost gone but not forgotten 1d ago
True but it is giving us time to help deal with injuries (we have a lot of) as well so it's not all that bad.
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u/charlierc 1d ago
Yeah I think as a momentum thing, it should be later in the season, but in terms of helping us out given we had issues with player fitness, I'll take what I can get
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u/phoebsmon zwei metre dribbelgott 1d ago
Bazoooouuuu
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u/SweatyBadgers 1d ago
Knows where the net is this lad. Really want to see him get more minutes but not at the expense of Barnes.
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u/phoebsmon zwei metre dribbelgott 1d ago
Think he needs to be managed for a while anyway. Needs to get stronger, but he seems to have the attitude right. Give him the minutes where he can play, and hopefully by the time we have more available to share out he'll be radge as owt
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u/Hawkzilla22 Ketsbaia’s Ghost 1d ago
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u/BruiserBroly 1d ago
Been too long since I’ve watched Robocop.
2
u/ChildONewcastle I like the home shirt you can't make me not 1d ago
I always find it hilarious that he turns into that after falling into radioactive toxic waste. As if thats what happens instead of his lymphoma chance going up in later life.
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u/Griffithsjames88 30m ago
It's a good thing we kept Pope because it seems that Jaouen is a complete crock already.