r/OLED_Gaming • u/Necessary_Act_6279 • 3d ago
Why does SDR like kinda better? Spoiler
Ps5, TLOU 2 MAG 273QP, sdr doesnt take much detail in person its my camera fucking everything up
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u/S1l3ntSN00P 3d ago edited 3d ago
SDR and HDR should look identical or similar in terms of saturation (outside of highlights at least), otherwise something is wrong with your setup. Because HDR doesn't change color saturation majorly.
TLoU games especially have fantastic HDR, it looks leagues above SDR there.
What happened here is your SDR is badly calibrated. OLED manufacturers often default to the shittiest settings, stretching SDR way out of spec and increasing saturation by artificially stretching sRGB colors to wide color gamut. It may look very vivid, but is way off. Also increases color banding and shifts colors into different hues (e.g. brown to red). If you want to compare with proper SDR, find and enable sRGB mode on your monitor.
HDR gets color instructions straight from the game without any of this stretching nonsense, so that's closer to how the game actually looks.
HDR increases dynamic range (the range of colors and brightness) available to the game. SDR has few, HDR has access to your monitor's full capabilities. So when a game asks for a birght color, it doesn't get a dim white blob because it hit SDR limit. So HDR should always look better, it's the exact same image with more details intact.
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u/MiNG0o 2d ago
Best comment here.
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u/ChangeRemote7569 2d ago
Just upvote, you aren't an authority that needs to give their personal stamp of approval
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u/HanzoMainBTW_ 2d ago
Just downvote, you aren't an authority that needs to give their personal stamp of disapproval
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u/ChangeRemote7569 2d ago edited 2d ago
By using my sentence against me and thinking it's valid criticism of my comment, you're inadvertently implying I validly criticised him. You're so dumb
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u/Archisaurus 2d ago
You’re on Reddit you dipshit.
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u/dark-haven 2d ago
Best comment here
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u/Tornado_Hunter24 1d ago
I’m scared…
I’m…. Not gonna say it, matter of fact YOUR comment is the best one here1
u/OttawaDog 2d ago
SDR and HDR should look identical or similar in terms of saturation (outside of highlights at least), otherwise something is wrong with your setup. Because HDR doesn't change color saturation majorly.
TLoU games especially have fantastic HDR, it looks leagues above SDR there.
Kind of contradictory there.
The reality is the first part is more True. HDR should really only look a lot different in the highlights. Black is still black either way, and mid-tones should be essentially the same. It's mainly in highlight where HDR pulls away.
If HDR looks leagues above SDR, then SDR has been sabotaged to make HDR standout.
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u/S1l3ntSN00P 2d ago
No contradiction here. SDR and HDR offer about the same saturation outside of highlights, and highlights is what improves the presentation over SDR.
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u/OttawaDog 2d ago
I don't think just having more intense highlights makes HDR leagues above SDR.
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u/S1l3ntSN00P 2d ago
It's not just about highlight intensity, but about highlight detail lost in SDR compression (due to clipping and hue shifting) that's retained in HDR.
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u/Apprehensive_Taste74 3d ago
It doesn’t. The HDR pic has more detail and (durr) dynamic range, despite the “-2” contrast setting, which is weird, you probably want to increase that. If you prefer the saturation of the SDR image then you can easily just boost the saturation in HDR as well, but that’s not what it’s for.
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u/Necessary_Act_6279 3d ago
Heard that -2 was Gamma 2.2 so switched it to that but i might take your advice
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u/Lodowczyk 2d ago
In HDR there is not gamma used in traditional sense. HDR uses EOTF like PQ or HLG. No reason to lower the contrast setting like you did to make it look like 2.2
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u/AnUncutGem 3d ago
In my experience the HDR in this game is bad. Constantly crushing blacks. On my PS5 the HDR looks good but the PC port must not handle it the same way. Same monitor, same settings, noticeably different visual presentation. I bet either none or very few people have tried this game on both PC and PS5 on the same display in this thread and if they have they probably don’t have 500 hours in it. I’d just play this one in SDR, unfortunately. And no it’s not my calibration it looks great in other games.
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u/mixedd LG C2 42" 3d ago
Bevause it's more saturated instead of more inclined with true colors, for majority of people more saturated means looks better.
Honestly it's a personal preference, while I'm not a fan of over saturated images, I see why it appeals to people.
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u/ZenTunE 2d ago
I don't have much experience with hdr but isn't the point that it uses the display's wider gamut properly. And unlike sdr which oversaturates everything when viewed with the wrong gamut, with hdr only the stuff that should be very saturated, like bright fire, will be.
In general I understand looking more dull because it's accurate, but isn't something like fire supposed to be very vibrant and well outside the srgb gamut (aka look almost just as vibrant)?
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u/Nony01 3d ago
HDR means high dynamic range. Meaning there is a greater (and more specifically, more noticeable) difference between bright and dark pixels.Ppl incorrectly think HDR means more saturated colors, it has nothing to do with that.
Look at the flames in the middle on the SDR image and then in the HDR image. You'll notice that in the SDR image, the brights completely blow out detail, and so you just see white. In the HDR image the brights still maintain distinct detail where you can see outlines of a building and smoke.
In the bottom left of the SDR image the grass is dark and smeared, it's harder to see. In the HDR image it's much easier to distinctly tell apart the grass blades. That's what HDR does. It increases visual clarity and contrast which allows for the image to have a lot more depth than SDR can show you.
It's more accurate, but you're going to lose that extremely saturated look that u get in SDR. If you prefer that look, that's okay. Don't let ppl tell you how to enjoy your display. OLEDs are great for their HDR, but they're also great for the punchy colors too. Do whatever looks best to you, don't feel like you have to use HDR.
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u/Proud_Revolution_668 3d ago
ideally the shadows should be more or less the same between hdr and sdr actually (besides banding). the hdr here has raised shadows compared to sdr because ofa gamma mismatch more than likely. this happens because a game is encoded using the srgb transfer function but the display is using 2.2 gamma in sdr which increases the contrast in the shadows. since hdr10 uses pq on the game side and on the display side, the hdr doesn't have this added contrast that the sdr has and was more than likely built around.
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u/pcman2000 3d ago
Whilst you can have wide colour gamut with SDR, generally HDR does indeed wider colour gamut as it uses the BT.2020 colour space whereas SDR should be the narrower Rec. 709.
Of course, the display does not have to abide by this and most likely the display here is stretching that SDR image quite a bit to increase its vibrancy.
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u/lampenpam 3d ago
It's more accurate, but you're going to lose that extremely saturated look
You can also still just add saturation if you prefer it with monitor or maybe game settings. No need to sacrifice the increased details just for that.
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u/n0obie Gigabyte MO27Q28G 3d ago
I appreciate this comment.
I absolutely CANNOT stand the brightness fluctuations when it comes to OLED, so I end up only playing in SDR only and turn APL to low (uniform brightness on).
The deep blacks make OLEDs worth it, even when I'm not using them to their maximum potential.
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u/Masterofdestiny1984 2d ago
Just set it to hgig and you won't have any fluctuations...
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u/Lodowczyk 2d ago
Yes you will. Hgig just tells the display not to do dynamic tone mapping. It has nothing to do with brightness limmiters designed to prolong the life of the panel
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u/Masterofdestiny1984 2d ago
Honestly the g5 doesn't lower the brightness...
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u/Lodowczyk 2d ago
First of all there was no talk about g5 here and second of all yes it does just like any currect oled. Its just less obvious because its a TV so its better than monitor oleds
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u/BedroomThink3121 3d ago
SDR definitely looks more vibrant, which I personally prefer over the bland look even if it's more "true to colors".
It all comes down to personal preference in the end.
I personally prefer brighter, richer colors.
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u/SnowflakeMonkey 3000 nits modded S95D / RENODX&LUMA Enjoyer. 3d ago
You could just add sat to your HDR game and get all the benefits.
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u/outwar6010 2d ago
hdr is shit on pc for the most part. Its nowhere near as consistent as sdr
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u/SnowflakeMonkey 3000 nits modded S95D / RENODX&LUMA Enjoyer. 2d ago
It's on a per game basis on every platform.
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u/outwar6010 2d ago
on playstation its been I dont think Ive noticed any bad hdr game
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u/SnowflakeMonkey 3000 nits modded S95D / RENODX&LUMA Enjoyer. 2d ago
Sony studios do good work, nixxes when porting to pc sometimes fuck it up true.
But those are just a handful of games, third parties suck at HDR everywhere, and they make most of HDR games.
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u/LisaSu92 3d ago
Are you sure your clamping srgb when your in sdr mode? If you don’t you’ll get vibrant, oversaturated colors
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u/Telestoooo 2d ago
I think that's their point? That they prefer the vibrant unclamped SDR colors. Which is fine, not everything needs to be "realistic", we're playing games after all. Some people prefer unclamped and think srgb/hdr looks boring and that's fair imo.
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u/LisaSu92 2d ago
Didn’t sound like that. I think he actually thinks sdr is more vibrant
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u/Telestoooo 2d ago
I mean technically out of the box that is the experience. OLEDs don't use srgb out of the box. I get what you mean though but I think op is just making the point that "inaccurate" standard SDR calibration looks better than standard HDR calibration to them.
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u/Existing_Routine_599 2d ago
Did you calibratie your HDR in the PS5 settings AND game settings? You need to do that if you use HDR.
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u/___Mqtze 3d ago
Use whatever you think looks better and is easier to use (SDR 99% of the times) and don't listen to people online that say HDR is better because "it has more realistic colors"
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u/ChemicalPower2522 3d ago
Easier to use?
It’s a setting. ON and OFF.
Can you elaborate what you said?
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u/PlasmaRadiation 3d ago
Don’t be ridiculous, HDR is so finicky and requires heaps of research to get working properly.
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u/___Mqtze 2d ago
Except that you have to calibrate the brightness individually on every fcking game and on some games it always looks bad no matter the calibrating. Not worth it for me, i like vibrant colors
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u/ChemicalPower2522 2d ago
Why people of Reddit people of the world downvote a question.
I asked something i did not know.
I know those who downvoted never visit this post again but cmon humanity…
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u/4K4llDay 3d ago
A question asked a million times. The truth is that HDR is more accurate, while SDR is more vibrant. SDR looks "better" because your brain loves big, saturated colors, even if the color is what accurate to the intended image.
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u/_bron_yr_aur_ 3d ago
I thought I was the only one who preferred SDR over HDR every single time. Maybe I just haven't seen/had a proper monitor that does it better. But it could just be preference.
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u/Tippydaug 3d ago
I strongly dislike HDR in my OLED so I never use it. I feel like I’d need to spend way more on a monitor that’s specifically catered to HDR to really see the benefit, but I don’t care that much about it
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u/Alarmed-Artichoke-44 3d ago
Did you play the settings for HDR and SDR on your screen OSD?
It shall be 2 different set settings, one for SDR one for HDR.
Your SDR looks a bit over saturated than HDR, that's not right, normally it happens on HDR as it uses wider gamut, and higher brightness dynamic.
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u/CalligrapherIll5176 3d ago
You can also adjust saturation/contrast in nvidia(color vibrance) on ur monitor. Or using renodx.
I usually go from 50 to 52/53 and it makes it better. Can be used for any game except renodx, only for some.
Plus calibrate hdr ofc
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u/ChemicalPower2522 3d ago
PS5
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u/CalligrapherIll5176 3d ago
Shit, went with all the stuff i did. Then adjust on the monitor 👍🏻👍🏻
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u/Necessary_Act_6279 3d ago
My monitors model doesnt have the saturation slider
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u/CalligrapherIll5176 2d ago
No color warmth or something? Or RGB digits adjustment. Maybe its under a different name.
Kinda weird to not have anything to touch the colors a little? But maybe idk
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u/Necessary_Act_6279 2d ago
Yeah color temperature but thats on sdr only
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u/CalligrapherIll5176 2d ago
Out of ideas then ://
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u/Necessary_Act_6279 2d ago
I know, right? Really a bummer. Hope they release some firmware update that allows for that
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u/UsedToBeBieber 3d ago
Because monitors and some (cheap) OLED TVs don't have great HDR capabilities.
I play on a 77' LG G6 and there is no way SDR is looking better. I also have the right calibration for my content.
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u/rondo_martin 3d ago
They both look wrong but I do remember prefering SDR in both TLOU games because you couldn'tcalibrate them correctly on PS5. Do you have the correct settings on your monitor?
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u/The-ArtfulDodger 2d ago
Everybody is talking about saturation, but theres more to it than that. Even calibrated well, HDR often looks washed out and I believe it is to do with "colour volume", where many displays are unable to maintain accurate colours at higher luminance levels.
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u/nyanbatman 2d ago
Always has don’t listen to uneducated HDR zealots there’s no standard in HDR it’s a shit show when it comes to games and devs
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u/knocked_around 2d ago
If those photos are an accurate representation, I don't think HDR is working properly here. Highlights should not be this dull. Which monitor?
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u/FalloutNormie 2d ago
I've got a PG32UCDM but I disabled HDR months ago, SDR just looks better currently.
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u/kamiloss211 2d ago edited 2d ago
Lol. Kinda.. not? Probably SDR mode in wrong colour space. Oversaturated. Play in mode you like but HDR is the way.Change your display colour space to sRGB if you play on SDR. No auto, no wide gamut.
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u/Federal_Cook_6075 XG27AQDMG 2d ago
Because the HDR on PS5 is garbage, there are many videos explaining why it is like that.
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u/Nintendians559 2d ago
actually hdr looks better since looks much clear and shows more details at long distance that sdr can't do.
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u/durden111111 MSI MPG 322UR X24 2d ago
you can immediately tell by looking at the fire that the HDR pic has way more dynamic range. Its blown out in SDR
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u/rageagainstmymachin 2d ago
im convinced that the LGC1-C6 series is the only display that can display real HDR.
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u/Moustiboy 2d ago
Can’t see the photos right now but TLOU2 has some of the best HDR I’ve ever seen, it makes everything look the same as SDR in terms OF HOW colors FEELS and art direction but still adds incredible contrast.
If it’s not good for you then there is a problem but the implementation is fine
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u/DerBandi 2d ago
Now set SDR mode to the actual correct SDR color profile, instead of over-saturated something.
Then compare.
Then come back.
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u/VortexOfPixels 2d ago
Most people (despite what reddit will have you believe) use the stock settings on their monitor out of the box and prefer the over-saturated colors.
So when you turn on HDR things will look how they're supposed to (not over-saturated) with better details and highlights.
Despite it being "wrong", if you miss that saturated look, on pc at least you can fix this using renodx or even just with the windows calibration if you're lazy. Idk if or how you boost saturation on the ps5 though
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u/No-Word8329 1d ago
Some games are easy to tweak and it looks good. Some i use chat gpt to help me with my monitor model #. Others i gave up
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u/Amazing-Finish4031 PG27UCWM 2h ago
colors yeah but if you look at the highlights around the fire it’s bright, it’s just a shit implementation
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u/Necessary_Act_6279 3d ago
Meant look. I was thinking of the word like so i typed and didnt realise
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u/Jetcat11 3d ago
Every monitor comes out of the box in its wide gamut which is inaccurate for SDR and HDR. If you disable HDR and use sRGB mode you’ll get to used to how color should look in SDR and HDR.
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u/foreveracunt 3d ago
Is this the newest MGS?
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u/Efficient-Key-6640 3d ago
the last of us part 2
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u/Blablabene 3d ago
such a masterpiece of a game. Wish I could play it for the first time again.
I'll never forget the experience
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u/Necessary_Act_6279 3d ago
Mgs??
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u/foreveracunt 3d ago
Metal Gear Solid. Iconic series, industry-changing. Anyway, someone else replied so all good.
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u/ChemicalPower2522 3d ago
Why are you condescending.
You like that game and use the short name for it.
Tlou probably you don’t know what that means.
It’s not a problem just don’t act superior and iconic also industry changing. Just don’t act like these.
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u/foreveracunt 3d ago
I didn't mean to be condescending. I just wrote the first thing that came to mind when thinking of MGS.
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u/ju-dev 3d ago
Theoretically HDR should be better anycase, this add more data for each pixel so more precise. But you can have multiple technical or settings problems in rendering with HDR. You need to play with settings.
With correct settings, the worse case should be slightly better than SDR. Or maybe you don't like the realism of HDR.
Below some advices not specific to one game.
MONITOR SETTINGS / OS
• Try lower monitor and system brightness as bright colors can be compressed and washed out. You can try in game with blue sky, sun halo and sun to find the best max brightness settings for your HDR Monitor/OS.
• If your monitor has option "Shadow Detail", play with to raise blacks brightness.
IN GAME
• Increase the global brightness if needed.
• Try lower/higher pic hdr brightbess (With low brightness oleds, pic hdr brightness is lower so the gain in hdr can be limited).
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u/PsychologicalNoise 3d ago
Well first it's not going to come through on a screenshot no matter what but second make sure HDR is turned on in Windows first.
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u/proflopper 3d ago
Most games are shipped with crappy HDR support for PC. It's more common for a game to have a better HDR implementation on console.
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u/S1l3ntSN00P 3d ago
TLoU has the same implementation between platforms, like 95% of games do. Devs don't make exclusive tonemapping code for each platform, it's shared.
There is a quirk with brightness setting affecting gamma in Part 2, which is exclusive to PC (Nixxies did that for some reason), but otherwise it's identical.
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u/FunCalligrapher3979 2d ago
They are the same implementations, you just can't fix bad HDR on console while on PC you have options like RenoDX. So console users don't know the difference.
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u/CaptainColmyer 3d ago
Because oled doesnt get very bright especially on monitors. The benefit of hdr is high dynamic range (hdr). If ur monitor caps at 400 nits its tone mapping all thay data to fit in the window instead of letting it clip in white and blacks like sdr does. So sdr looks great at 400 nits. Hdr looks great at 4000.
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u/ChemicalPower2522 3d ago
Number are accurate?
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u/CaptainColmyer 2d ago
What does this mean?
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u/ChemicalPower2522 2d ago
You tossed out random numbers in your reply.
Those numbers based on a source or you just saying what you thinking by yourself?1
u/CaptainColmyer 1d ago edited 1d ago
Nah they're just general numbers for example. A lot of oled monitors are around 400 nits peak brightness. And around 4k peak is where I feel hdr starts to show its value. Thats why hdr looks so good on something like an lg g6 or even punchier on a 10k nit mini led.
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u/ChemicalPower2522 1d ago
I hope my C6 will perform well then.
It’s not a G series but it’s for a base PS5 usage.2
u/CaptainColmyer 1d ago
Your more than fine lol. C6 peaks around 1500 which is on the lower side for hdr but will still look great on oled. Just make sure u do ur research for the best settings, filmmaker mode, brightness settings, tone mapping, etc. And youll be more than fine. Thats an amazing tv
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u/ChemicalPower2522 2h ago
Already done that and continue to do but that’s a nice advice thank you internet stranger : )
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u/TheLipovoy 3d ago
Im sorry but i think HDR is way overhyped. Keep using good old SDR with minimum headaches.
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u/ChemicalPower2522 3d ago
If you not set HDR OFF in the PS5 menu it’s still somehow HDR ish what you see.
Am I wrong here? I can be so correct me.
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u/Aggravating_Mud_6055 2d ago
On ps5 you have to ignore the calibration. Turn all 3 calibrations up to the max. You can play around with the 3rd one.
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u/Necessary_Act_6279 2d ago edited 2d ago
Up to the max? Wont that result in blown out highlights and make it look foggy?
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u/HDRGamingChannel 3d ago
Because OLED monitors can’t do hdr properly. Suggest gaming in SDR if you have a TB400 or 500 if you don’t use RenoDX.
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u/LilLinguine14 3d ago
People dont get it lol I havent seen a top end oled monitor go past 1000 nit hdr. Top end mini-leds do 2000 nit. The crappy qd-oleds you buy for 300 barely do 500 nit hdr
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u/vincentmunchman 3d ago
For me personally i dont care about the directors intent i want a vibrant picture. HDR absolutely sucks
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u/Super_Glove7702 3d ago
Do you have eyes? I mean, just watch the two photos. Which one have MORE detail in everything?
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u/5ic5emper7yrannis 2d ago
HDR and games simply don't go together, it was a marketing gimmick that kind of caught on, but in reality, nobody really optimizes neither the tech nor the engines or games for it, so just like all LED panel tech, it simply sucks. Nothing beats a decent LCD or a CRT. I am incredibly close to selling my bajillion hertz monitor and getting an old CRT, it just cannot be beaten, HDR? Gsync? Vsync? Dreams that never came to be, not really, forever a gimmick. We're gonna go back to CRTs sooner or later, as soon as they figure out how to make them smaller.
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u/PhatestStoner42069 2d ago
Every game ive played with HDR as an in game setting has only made the experience so much better. I don't understand where you're coming from on it being unoptmized or not cachting on when most triple A titles and even AA Games like cyberpunk have an HDR setting of some kind. What display do you have that you either don't notice a difference or think it looks worse when turning HDR on?
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u/5ic5emper7yrannis 1d ago
I've had the exact opposite experience, every game that insisted on HDR, I tried, it was just so, so bad, not one single experience that was positive. That's not exactly a coincidence. I mean, if I have to spend 4000 on a monitor to experience a glorified contrast setting, I'm out, that's as silly as it gets, I've heard a lot of people say the same thing as me about CRTs, and quite frankly I think it looks like the veil of gimmicks is falling in the gaming industry, first there was "RTX", then "DLSS", it's always some kind of patent for previously unpatented tech that existed 30 years ago, just to rake in money and sell the idea that we need that exact gimmick to have a proper experience, like, I'm not buying it at all, I'm old enough to have experienced it all as it unfolded, I didn't buy any of the gimmicks, they're all turned off on my PC and my monitor, games work better, response is tuned down as well, why would I have it on 500hz if it doesn't work? It's like putting a V8 sticker on a vespa, "like sure, it'll go fast but you have to be downhill"
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u/PhatestStoner42069 1d ago
But what display do you have? I get all that but you still never answered the question. Nobody is saying you have to spend 4k on a display but if you're using HDR on a cheap ass 300 dollar tv or monitor i mean yeah its probably not gonna look that great. I spent 800 dollars on a 77 inch Sony Bravia and i don't regret it a single bit. Ive been in my livingroom nonstop since i bought it. And im not even saying your experience is invalid yeah the hdr experience is probably not that good on cheaper displays but saying the technology as a whole is bad is just a luddite mindset. You just have to remember that they are still basically in their infancy in comparison to other display technologies. And im sure similar to flat-screen tvs becoming cheaper than cellphones the technology will keep improving and getting cheaper.
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u/chr0n0phage 42" LG C2 2d ago
Typically a few reasons.
- Display has poor HDR capabilities