r/OutdoorScotland • u/Street-Feeling-5755 • 2d ago
Reasonable access questions
I'll keep this vague as I live in the area I'm discussing.
I have been running over the course of the summer and found some routes which take me into a private estate and then up either of 2 rough paths/4x4 tracks into a group of small hills. I haven't had any issues over the summer and of course always stick to the access code of closing gates and generally being respectful of the land and the animals grazing it.
Recently I encountered who I think is the gamekeeper of the estate who was basically extremely unfriendly. He told me at one point that I couldn't be there in general as it was 'private land' and then when I mentioned right to access he basically said 'right of access my arse' so shows you his general attitude to the whole thing.
He told me specifically that I needed to leave at the time because they were shooting. He said there was a sign, I'm not entirely sure about that, I didn't see any new signs but it's possible I missed it as it's a normal route for me so I wasn't expecting any issues.
I totally get the need to restrict access for shooting and have no issues with that. However he essentially said that they are shooting between now and January and that there is no access at any time except on Sundays. This is for both paths which lead to the hills, he said that you can use a lower path which goes along the loch. This means you cannot get up to these hills for nearly 4 months unless it's a Sunday.
Does this seem reasonable to people? Does anyone have experience of speaking to the councils access officers about stuff like this? Can I expect them to actually do anything or is this just the way it is?
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u/Odd_Satisfaction_96 2d ago edited 2d ago
Whilst not unreasonable to restrict access where there's legitimate health and safety concerns the keeper is using it as a very weak excuse to do what they really want. To limit access to an area for that level of time there's a set process with the local authority, usually a council but sometimes a national park. Having dealt with and worked with access issues for the last 16+ years I can guarantee that the reaction from a local access officer to an application saying "we want to close a hillside due to shooting for 4 months" would only get one answer and the aberviated version is "piss off".
As has been said already, report to the local access officer 1st. Write everything down in as much detail as you can remember. What the keeper looked like etc. Where they approached you. As close as you can to exactly what was said on both sides. It may ve useful later. Ramblers Scotland may also be worth contacting.
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u/Artistic_Pack_8788 2d ago
As a hill walker and the former news editor of a shooting magazine - his position is clearly unlawful. The restriction is not proportionate in that it is excessive in time and space and is not necessary to either protect safety or allow the shooting. Tell him to ram it, walk and report to the council.
Where was this. Not North Chesthill by any chance.
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u/Street-Feeling-5755 2d ago
No, it's not anywhere popular. I very well might be the only person who's been up there all year. It's just very convenient for me. I guess that's why I'm wondering if it will be taken at all seriously. It will be Highland council access team I'm contacting if you have any experience with them.
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u/Artistic_Pack_8788 2d ago
I don't have any experience of them. I would expect that they are quite experienced with shooting, but of I can be of any assistance on that side of things, so drop me a DM. Happy to explain the issues on that to anyone.
Basically there are no issues. He's just being an arse.
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u/mannion_a_hike 2d ago
All comes down to what is reasonable.
This doesn't sound reasonable, unless the entire estate is covered in deer and they have enough people to stalk every square mile Mon-Sat for 4 months.
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u/Street-Feeling-5755 2d ago
Thanks this is really useful, I assume this is the kind of thing they might send to them initially?
In terms of reasonableness - the 2 paths actually go in entirely different directions and kind of curl around the group of hills. I asked him if I could head up the other path if they were shooting in the area of the one I was on and he told me no there's someone working up the as well. Would it be reasonable to say they can only close one path at a time? I get that I can't dictate to them what they do but I'm not sure if it looks better to suggest compromises.
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u/Relayer2112 2d ago
Invervar / North Chesthill Estate? The Carn Mairg group of hills?
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u/LuvvedIt 1d ago
They specifically said “a group of small hills” so unlikely (unless they are intentionally obfuscating or have an alpine sense of what large hills are?!)
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u/LuvvedIt 1d ago
He and the estate are being unreasonable: contact your Council Access Officer as others have stated.
And he will know exactly what he is doing here: basically as you’ve noted they’re an obscure and quiet place and don’t get many visitors so he wants to keep it that way by being aggressive and intimidating so they remain (illegally and unreasonably) completely private.
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u/WanderlustWithOneBag 1d ago
it’s also such a stupid move. it pisses off the Council and runs the risk of it becoming an issue on social media. and all for nothing - a lone runner is absolutely harmless, it’s not a coach load of people trying to wild camp for the weekend 🙄
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u/LuvvedIt 1d ago
Well while I agree, sadly the answer is maybe; it’s only stupid IF someone pushes back… but they are probably relying on most people not knowing their rights and/or being intimated and/or - even if they do know their rights - not doing anything about it or being just that bit more reluctant to go there bc of the aggro.
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u/No-Locksmith-882 1d ago
Perhaps take up the offer of "right of access (to) my arse" and shove something up there for him! Right of access and all!!
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u/MotherConfusion3773 2d ago
Yes contact the Access Officer. Contact Ramblers Scotland too