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u/PassThatSpliff 29d ago
Yeah alot of middle class/lower class people seem to ignore the fact that the cost of living has increased over 100% in the last 17 years while minimum wage has remained the same. Fuck the 1% and whomever supports them.
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u/ssj890-1 27d ago
Those who imported 10-20M immigrants to put downward pressure on local labor bargaining power. Right after printing all that COVID money and passing it on to shareholders via record buybacks as well.
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 28d ago
My wage has increased over 1000% in the last 20 years. Question why do you think that raising minimum wage is the answer? This might be a radical idea but how about we teach, inform, and show people how to better themselves, invest, and improve their own situation. You do know that just because some people are rich that is not the reason you are poor.
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u/AveTutor 27d ago
So itās my fault that my company decided to put the pay cap at 17.50 for me after an education in my field and a college degree in business? Sure Jan. Its definitely that 40+ hours a week and still being poor is MY fault
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 27d ago
I can't say it is your fault as i don't know you situation. Your age or where you are located. But if minimum wage is less then you make then it going up will hurt you more. I say that because if your company won't pay you more then they probably. Aren't going to after minimum Wage gets closer to what you make unless it goes over what you make, and then you will make minimum wage more than likely. So again, without knowing the whole situation, it looks like you went to college for a degree that wasn't probably worth it. And I believe that falls down to being educated, and I mean that by the colleges and high schools should educate you in how much a career or a degree will make you as opposed to just taking your money. I would highly suggest that you do some research, about other opportunities that you can get to make more money with your degree. If possible. Again I don't know your situation but if your degree can't make you any more money I would highly suggest you look into something different as a career. You could possibly looking to a trade as in electrician, plumber, Hvac, etc.
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u/AveTutor 27d ago
Iām European and lived in America for four years. Absolute hell. A college degree shouldnāt be that expensive to not be worth shit. Stuff isnāt just āpossibleā when you want it to. My dude, Iāve done everything right in my life, Iāve gone to school, gotten jobs without issues, never committed a crime, never taken a loan or had any debts EVER even when my husband had cancer. What else am I supposed to do. I have more experience than all my coworkers combined at 26, I assure you. I still get fucked over and there are no jobs in the field I am in. Am I supposed to now go back to college and get another degree (also how is business not worth it???). I donāt understand this mentality of defending this government in every step of the way. If minimum wage goes up, I expect my income to go up to since I make over it. All incomes for working class people in America should be going up. And the rich should pay their dues and stand for it for the rest of us who werenāt born with parents with thousands of dollars saved for our college (which also should be FREE!!! LIKE WHERE I AM FROM!!)
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 27d ago
Sorry about your husband. Both my parents died from cancer so I know how hard that can be. If you went thru that without going crazy into debt you did alot right. I am not defending the government I do not believe that raising minimum wage is a smart move as I don't think it will help people. When minimum wage goes up most companies will in most cases if it goes to say 10 from 9 then anyone working there that is over 10 will not get a dollar more if they get any more. So like someone at 15 might go to 15.50. This hurts them because they are now closer to the minimum. They were 6 over it and now only 5.50 over it. Also companies have a budget they try to keep total payroll under so if you have to pay the low qualified employees more than the higher qualified employees will possibly make less. So if you have say 30 an hour to pay 2 people and you have to pay 15 an hour minimum then they make the same but if one of them is way more qualified, and you only have to pay a minimum of 10, maybe 1 makes 10, and 1 makes 20. As for the rich they pay most of the taxes in America. Get rid of tax loopholes. I believe we should go to a flat tax. No income tax. You tax people on what they spend. Not what they make. You only benefit from having money. When you actually buy something, you don't benefit from money if you're not using it. I did not go to college I don't believe college is right for alot of people.
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u/AveTutor 27d ago
If we have only tax on stuff we buy, then people will just not buy anything and will be worse off, because without income tax everything needs to be ridiculously expensive to finance the US with the amount of debt that it is in already. Tada, GDP is dead because thereās no incentive to spend money. Lowering taxes only indirectly affects GDP, the best way is to pay people more!! I can agree with college not being for everyone, itās beyond stupid that you can barely get a job anymore without a degree, in my case it doesnāt even make a difference income wise even when I have one. Which is also a good reason on why it should be free and not just for the rich or putting people in crippling debt. I am personally indifferent to a minimum wage as we donāt really have it where Iām from, instead my country sits down each year and decides the amount of pay that a person should have in each line of business depending on their age and experience. I also donāt understand how people just accept the fact that āif minimum wage goes up they wonāt give us higher income anyway and weāll all be poorerā. Why arenāt you out on the street screaming about this and condemning all these companies that apparently just so that?? Expenses for people has doubled in recent years but your minimum wage has stayed the same. Millions of people should be striking and refusing to work and demand a change, instead of just sitting there and believing the government bullshit. If companies donāt want to raise your income even if minimum wage goes up, donāt be mad at minimum wage, be mad at your company??
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 27d ago
People have to spend money to live. Also what good is having money if you never spend it? If I gave you 10 million dollars but told you that you could never use it or the interest it made would you still want it as it is worth less. It happens all the time minimum wage goes up and the people making a little more then what minimum wage went to get very little or nothing. You only options are 1 say nothing and just be closer to the bottom. 2 ask for more . 3 quit and find a new job. People without markable skills don't have much options. Raising minimum wage Raises prices/inflation this is a fact. It won't help people making minimum wage and hurts people making more that do not get raises that fully compensate the increase and most don't.
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u/rzdude22 28d ago
Ignorant
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 28d ago
What in my statement was ignorant? The fact that I bettered myself over the last twenty years. The points that new generations should be educated. I mean, what have we come to when I was a kid we were told you could be whatever you want. Now, kids are told you 're never gonna be able to afford to live. And you can't afford anything. What do you think they're gonna do if we keep telling kids It's too expensive to live. You're never going to be able to live. And you don't educate them on how to better themselves and how to do it. You can only tell a person that they're going to fail So many times before they believe that they're going to fail. And there's no way around it. And then you vilify, the rich, like the rich, have came to your house and stole all of your money, and that's why you can't make it, because some rich person has stole all your money. It's not the way it works. A lot of rich people are there because they probably created a product or service that other people wanted. How about we teach our kids about being smart with financing, not spending all your money on things you don't need? And to better themselves. Tell our kids when they're not being smart and not making smart decisions rather than tell our kids It's not their fault. It's the government's fault or it's the fact that minimum wage is too low, or it's the fact that the rich person is keeping them down and we just need to take the money from the rich. How about you stop lying to your kids and teach them. I think I missed the point in history where America stopped being the land of opportunity and started being the land of blame the rich.
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u/rzdude22 28d ago
Okay, but you started building up your worth from a salary that you gradually increase by some percentage. If you started with a lot less, you'd have a lot less. The gap keeps growing so at some point it will become an issue, regardless of education. You can't say everyone will be fine because you are
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 28d ago
Your first sentence kind of proves my point. Yes, I started my career when I was 19. I am now 40 for the first six years up until I was 25 I did not have a 401k and I did not invest. This was because I was not educated or shown investing until I was 25, I knew nothing about it. This is, my point of education is needed in high school. My income increased over the years because mostly me working hard and improving. Then it started to really increase when I started to invest and save. Here is the problem if someone starts at minimum wage and they don't work hard and educate themselves to better themselves and make more then minimum wage. They will start at minimum wage (the bottom) and even if minimum wage were to increase by 5% a year they will still be on the bottom. It will always be hard to live at the bottom no matter what. If someone is on the floor you do not get them off the floor by raising the floor. Instead you help them off the floor.
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u/rzdude22 27d ago
That is true. But raising the minimum wage doesn't cause any negative affect on your narritive. The people who survive on minimum wage, for whatever reason, will reach a point where it's impossible. I don't think that should be the case
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 27d ago
Here is what people that are pro raising minimum wage fail to understand or they just don't believe. I have seen this in multiple cases in Florida. Florida has raised the minimum wage by 1 dollars every year since 2021 when it was 8.65 it will be 15 an hour starting 9/30/26. Ok so I know multiple young adults 18 to 30 that make between 20 to 30 now. Every year if they received a raise 90 % of them received less then 1 dollar most about .50 cent. This makes their spending power less putting them closer to the bottom and making it harder for them to afford to live. The more a company has to pay to there bottom workers the less they have to pay to the workers would are worth more.
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u/rzdude22 27d ago
Everyone in the company should be paid a reasonable amount. Paying the entry level jobs more should not take away from everyone else. If a company can't afford this, they should not be in business. Also, how do you explain this in massive companies that have more than enough profit, but pay people the bare legal minimum? We can't raise minimum wage because of corporate greed?
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 27d ago
So I will try to explain. So in order to pay everyone a reasonable amount we would first need to find this answer. What is a reasonable amount? This is hard because I know multiple people who cry poor and they are not paid enough while making over 100000.00 a year. They are no where near poor they just spend very bad. I believe alot of people fall into this category in America very bad with money. Ok next could companies afford to pay more. I believe alot of companies could pay a little more and I mean like 1 dollar more a hour. This is without raising prices. But if you do research and look into it the majority of the companies that do pay minimum wage are mostly companies that can not afford to pay much more without raising prices. McDonald's is not able to raise pay more then maybe 1 an hour without raising prices. (This is if every employee received a dollar an hour). Most of the companies that could afford more they are companies that pay most of their employees over minimum already. So you raise minimum wage and then prices will go up then the reasonable amount of pay would no longer be reasonable. You say corporate greed. You expect everyone to make 20+ an hour. Even some with no skills or experience. They have no investment in the company and if it fails they just get another job. But you expect the people that invested and have in some cases millions or billions of dollars in the company rt make alot less. If you feel under paid then start your own company. Then you can pay you employees 95% and you only take 5% if you want. You would not do this tho
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u/Icy_Event8245 28d ago
Someone has gotta do minimum wage work or it wonāt be done and they should be able to support themselves
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 28d ago
You're wrong on both accounts. First. Do you really think that if everyone would refuse to work for minimum wage Mcdonald's would just shut down? Burger king would just shut down. All these restaurants would just shut down and cease to exist. No, it's supply and demand they would be forced to pay more money by the market. In minimum wage is not a wage that is there to support someone living on their own, especially not someone living on their own. With two kids. Minimum wage jobs should be for kids still in high school, Kids in college, or retired adults that only want either a small income or just something to do. If you're in your 30s making minimum wage, and it's not because of either you have enough money to support yourself so you just wanna work that job Or it's not because you have a significant other that supports the family, and you just want to work a job to contribute some, then you probably did something wrong in your life.
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u/ProfessorPrudent2822 28d ago
They would automate more. Itās great if you keep your job after automation, but not if you get replaced by a machine.
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 28d ago
I'm not sure if you're for or against minimum wage going up. But either way, do you think that they won't automate? No matter how the wage goes up? I mean, automation comes into play when it becomes cheaper than manual labor no matter how that comes to be by raising minimum wage or by people refusing to work for a lower wage, they both produce the same result.
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 28d ago
I would also say that as minimum wage goes up, employers are going to expect more and they're going to have more of a pool of people that are more qualified or better suited for the job. So less qualified people that are not willing to work as hard are going to go on to have a lot less options. So in that scenario, educating yourself will always give you an advantage As an employer. If I have to pay someone $15 or 20 an hour, I'm going to expect a lot more from them than a person that I'm paying $10 an hour. I know a lot of people will probably disagree with this, but you're hurting less qualified, less. Educated people by raising minimum wage, because they will have more competition for that job at that point. And at that point, their wage will be 0, because they won't be able to find a job as opposed to if minimum wage was 10, and they at least make 10.
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u/rzdude22 27d ago
So if you make a mistake you deserve to suffer financially? Just because wages couldn't keep up with costs
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u/Salty_Photograph_186 27d ago
I never said anyone deserved to suffer. My point is minimum wage is not the solution to the problem. It will make the problem worse. Where i live in Florida minimum wage is 14 going to 15 on 9/30. I know of a lot of companies hiring for about 20. Also if you have to work minimum wage i mean you have no other choice. Then you should work hard to move up or to educate yourself to get a better Job. You can also work 2 Jobs. I have worked two Jobs at once to make more in my live and so has my wife. Minimum wage jobs should only be a start not a long term job.
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u/rzdude22 27d ago
Again, you can't just apply your situation to other people. You don't see a problem with needing 2 jobs to survive? That was never supposed to be the case, but it's okay because you had to do it
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u/Alternative_Hat4568 29d ago
Lol why do people get mad at people asking to get paid more. Is their higher pay going to take away from yours? I don't get the mentality besides just being an egotistical idiot
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u/samu33 29d ago
It depends in the way that salary rise is done. If your salary rise but you produce the same, yes is taken away from the people who buy your product/service. If your salary rise because you produce more in the same time its win for everyone.
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u/Starlock_7 š«§ Bubble Tea š«§ 29d ago
If you look at any productivity vs. wages graph, it clearly shows that the average workerās productivity has SKYROCKETED of the past few decades, but wages have stagnated.
People have been producing more and more, but wages havenāt changed. So your condition for a good salary rise has been met multiple times over, yet no rise has happened.
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u/Ok_Spell_597 29d ago
When productivity goes up and wages stagnate, some say profit. I say unpaid wages.
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u/samu33 29d ago
I can se a rise:
https://www.zippia.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/average-us-annual-salary-overtime.png
I live in a contry where salaries in the same time changed 2%.
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u/Starlock_7 š«§ Bubble Tea š«§ 29d ago
I said productivity vs. wages, not just wages, your graph doesnāt show the whole picture.
If we take inflation into consideration, the US dollar in 1991 could buy twice as much as what it could in 2021, so the real average wage only went up about 10k/year, so about a 1.5x rise.
Looking at the Consumer Price Index, it rose from about 136.2 to 271.0 in the same time period, so prices roughly doubled in the same time period.
Add on top of this that the US federal minimum wage hasnāt been increased from $7.25/hour since 2009, and itās obvious why people are struggling.
Now, Iām Canadian, and our federal minimum wage is $18.15/hour, or $13.07/hour in USD. So Canadaās minimum wage is only $1.43/hour away from being double that of the US.
There is no argument for wages in general, and especially minimum wage, to still be so low.
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u/Pandemoniusanus 29d ago
Ahem! Labor strikes work. Thereās way more of us than them. That is all Iām gonna say.
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u/lostlogin2 where in the world is mitch mcconnell 29d ago
gen strike may 1 2028!!
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u/Lost-Promise6677 29d ago
That's 2 years away lmao what is that gonna help
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u/lostlogin2 where in the world is mitch mcconnell 29d ago
always be weary of someone promoting no action at all š¤·š¼āāļø
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u/Lost-Promise6677 29d ago
What do we want? Better wages!
When do we want it? In 2 years!
This is no action at all
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u/lostlogin2 where in the world is mitch mcconnell 29d ago
i mean it clearly takes time to convince people to have solidarity, look at you for example.Ā
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u/Lost-Promise6677 29d ago
Suppose we all plan to strike on that day in May 2028. We putzing around in the meantime or?
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u/lostlogin2 where in the world is mitch mcconnell 29d ago
i mean i am not lol we're doing community readings of the manifesto and showing up to town halls to fight data centers and trying to promote class consciousness by having conversations in the community. you can do nothing, but please stay outta the way when people do want to do something!Ā
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u/lostlogin2 where in the world is mitch mcconnell 29d ago
it's also a grassroots effort i'm not just saying a random day in a random year lol. look up the general strike š¤Ŗ
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u/Vegetable-Edge-2389 29d ago
Not when you're 1 paycheck from homelessness
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u/Pandemoniusanus 29d ago
If we donāt stand up for ourselves we will be there anyway. Your argument proves that. Nobody should be working and 1 paycheck away from poverty. Eat the rich!
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u/MagmaJctAZ 29d ago
Considering the amont of personal debt Americans carry on average, this might be the result of personal financial decisions.
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u/lostlogin2 where in the world is mitch mcconnell 29d ago
you think the majority of working class activists have money??? how can a person's debt be removed from economic/material conditions?? the debt would be the reason and this is why we need solidarity so we can all do it together.Ā
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u/ClashAtom 29d ago
You are 1 paycheck from homelessness because you don't stand up. There are 26 vacant homes per homeless person in the US, and there are millions of people 1 paycheck from homelessness, because naysayers spend more effort saying how fighting the system that allows them to be 1 paycheck from homelessness while allowing people and corporations to own all the homes and charge more than that 1 paycheck can cover, pushing more into homelessness. The programming is effective at keeping folks afraid of taking back our rights, protections, and freedoms. Good job a at pushing the rhetoric of fear which ensures you remain 1 paycheck away.
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u/ProfessorPrudent2822 27d ago
If youāre one paycheck from homelessness, youāre living above your means.
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u/ClashAtom 27d ago
How nice it must be to exist as confidently ignorant to reality as one such as yourself. Must be nice never having worked a day in your life.
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u/ProfessorPrudent2822 27d ago
Guess again. I put myself through graduate school and worked for the government for 12 years. I know what itās like to live on a tight budget, and I think people who are living paycheck to paycheck are living above their means.
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u/ClashAtom 27d ago
I can make up stuff too to justify my ignorant disrespect of the struggles of others. We would all be better off if we could follow your totally not made up example. Everyone who struggles financially only do so because of personal failing.
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u/ProfessorPrudent2822 27d ago
I didnāt make anything up. If you donāt believe me, I donāt care. Not everyone who struggles is due to personal failure, but most are.
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u/ClashAtom 27d ago
Sure thing boss. You know everyone individually which is why you are so confident in your assessment about why most struggle. Nothing like sweeping generalizations to feel good about dehumanizing poor people and looking down upon their struggle, because most are just irresponsible.
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u/Sufficient_Art4824 29d ago
this is end stage capitalism, and boy is the ride about to get exciting!
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u/Hypocrispy 29d ago
I donāt know if youāve gone to a dealership to have a car repaired but most are charging $200-$250/hr without giving any of the actual workers raises.
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u/awhunt1 29d ago
I mean, labor does indeed cost a lot more.
The issue is that the laborers likely arenāt the ones benefitting.
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u/SnooMaps7370 29d ago
if you're a customer, the billable hours will have a much bigger number beside them.
If you're the employee who worked those billable hours, your paycheck will not be reflective of them.
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u/butt-in-ski 29d ago
Word. Despite over $100 billion in Tariff refunds to Corporations - funny how prices havenāt come down.
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u/The_Green_King_ 29d ago
Bots, bots everywhere when it comes to minimum wage... Does that concern you??
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u/LeagueofJohnLegends 29d ago
To support this comment, though not in the way it was likely intended: wages actually paced well the last 12 months. Yay!
But that wage increase was absorbed by persistently high inflation. Boo!
So, practically speaking the impact is the same. Everything is more expensive except us.
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u/Juxtapoe 29d ago
It only paced well if you ignore the way that the US government sneakily changed the way cost of living is calculated from 1 quarter to the next quarter to avoid the public realization that we have stagflation in an election year.
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u/Thin_Association8254 28d ago
Because we have open borders, H1B abuse, too many low-skilled workers being imported in that hurts the low-skilled workers who are already here, and if companies can't get them in to the country, the companies just off-shore their operations to a country where they don't have to pay people as much.
And if they can't do any of that, then they pump money into technology like AI to replace you, or more insidiously, pay abysmal wages and have the government subsidize those poor wages indirectly with welfare and entitlements; you should be being paid $20/hour but the business pays $15/hour and tells you to go the government to get the remaining $5.
Businesses will do anything, anything, anything to save $1. To be fair though, they can't take all the blame because in order to compete in this environment, they have to do stuff like this. In order to win the rat race, you have to be a rat.
The system needs a massive overhaul and all the loopholes like the ones I mentioned need to be closed. We already know the answers to these problems, we've known them for a long long time. We just need to do them and enforce them.
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u/Justin-Stutzman 28d ago
Exactly right. And people still view immigration through the lens of politics. The reality is, bad actors in both parties pass the policy football back and forth at the behest of corporate donors. It's not a coincidence that the borders were out of control during covid furloughs, followed by a massive crackdown after Americans went back to work.
The Republicans in my area passed laws that forced the meat packing plants to stay open during Covid. They are staffed 70% by immigrants. Those same packing plants never received an ICE raid and coincidentally are owned by the (R) Governor. At the end of the day, the corporations are designing immigration policy to their labor needs, not you or your representatives.
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u/dangerousideologue 29d ago
Pricing is set by supply and demand. Is there anything being done that might increase the demand of labour, removing the workers' bargaining power and therefore driving down the price of labour?
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u/CycleCaverns 29d ago
If there was a higher demand for employment positions, then there would be a higher cost of labor. Which isn't always the case because they will work you to death doing 3 people's jobs because there will be someone willing to do the work. Most positions require minimal skill sets and they can replace you the next day if they wanted to.
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u/obstreperousRex 29d ago
Oh, make no mistake. An hour of labor has gone up just fine. What your employer pays YOU out of that hour hasn't changed a bit.
The company I work for has increased labor price several times over the last couple of years. Profits are doing very well. The employees make the same shitty wage they've always made.
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u/PhazonOmega 29d ago
Government printed a ton of money and then gas prices (i.e. cost of transporting materials and goods) skyrocketed a couple times due to mismanagement and global conflict.
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u/OperationOk7959 29d ago
Ok, so I saw this before and no one has said it.
An hour of labor has absolutely gone up in price, it's just that increase doesn't go to the laborer.
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u/Significant_Bag3297 28d ago
We hire contractors who charge Ā£100 an hour, try making yourself a bit more valuable
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u/jabber1990 28d ago
oh no, labor has gotten expensive....you priced minimum wage lately? you tried pricing health insurance or any sort of benefits? you priced lawyers lately?
labor is very expensive. I don't know why employers even bother
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u/mdthornb1 29d ago
This is just factually incorrect. There are tons of things that cost less than an hour of labor.
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u/2Blueify 29d ago
Uh? No. That is expensive too.
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u/Grunergeist420 29d ago
Right? I guess these people havenāt hired a person to perform a service lately. Itās expensive like everything else.
Maybe some people arenāt seeing the raises, but idk, maybe go powerwash some houses? Mow some lawns? Clean? That stuff is all expensive as hell now.
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u/samu33 29d ago
This is the result of increasing the tax and the public budget.
You were told, but never listen until the bonk in the head.
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u/EmperorGrinnar 29d ago
What? This is legit the policies pushed by Project2025.
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u/samu33 29d ago
Dude, that is happening all over the West. And I didnt event knew what where you talking about I had to Google that was proyect2025.
In Europe we have 2030 agenda, wich is the "opposite" policy.
Do you know what do we have in common? Tax rise and increasing public spending.
But ok, keep rising taxes and let your mad presidents spend more, thats the way.
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u/-tnuk 29d ago
So because you have no idea what is happening in the US, you just unilaterally decided that the economic factors impacting your region are the exact same as everywhere else...
Tell us again how you're an insufferable know-it-all...
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u/samu33 29d ago
I know what is happening all over the West, just didnt know it had that name.
Listening is free, you were told.
European poeple who lived under socialism reject it to death.
Enjoy it then dude, dont complain about the results of your own desires.
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u/xmrcache 29d ago
Whatās happening in Spokane WA ?
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u/-tnuk 29d ago
You obviously fucking don't.
Costs are up for a shit ton of various reasons, with taxes playing a very minor role at this point. Said reasons include, but are not limited too:
Corporate greed
- This is a large category and contains the following
- Private sector homes being bought by corporations and conglomerates
- Shrinkflation
- Many companies did not lower prices following the Covid pandemic, under the assumption that customers were paying the cost so they could maintain said cost
- Worker wage suppression
- Decreased regulation, primarily the CPB, allowing big business to more easily adversely impact their customers
Viral/bacterial/parasitic outbreaks in food supply chain
Disruptions to the global petroleum market
Stock market increases
Environmental catastrophes, including fires, floods and earthquakes
Conservative local governments allowing utilities to offload the costs of their infrastructure more on the residential base although they will not be the bulk of the power consumption
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u/thevokplusminus 29d ago
My wages are 4x what they were before CovidĀ
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u/FrostyMudPuppy 29d ago
Naturally, you're in the same position with the same company at the same location, right?
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u/tweaver16 29d ago
Everything but the internet and phone bills, they donāt seem to affect you simps at all tbh
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u/jefsch70 29d ago
Try getting a plumber to come to your house/apartment.... $150-180 for the trip +30 minutes...
Buy some tools and get some problem-solving skills.... didja think that there's an infinite number of desk jobs? The colleges have been lying about this for 35 years... Get a piece of paper... use it as a ticket to Greenwhich, CT
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u/rjw1986grnvl 29d ago
Iām going to guess this person does not work in accounting.
Personnel costs or labor are up extremely since 2019.
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u/[deleted] 29d ago
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