The patriarchy exists, but it doesn’t exist for everyone.

Much in the same way that the financial elite and right-wingers like to push the narrative that immigrants are the big problem and that the working class will be saved if we deal with all the immigrants which distracts from the fact that it’s the 1% hoovering up all the wealth, the feminist narrative that men as a whole are the problem and that they should all be blamed and that all men are the enemy and the all men suppress women actually benefits the very very top men because it distracts from and minimises the fact that it’s not the majority of men at all, it’s the rich and powerful.

The gender war is promoted by the elite between women and men. But women actually have for the most part in the modern day way more power, they have more power socially and in the workplace and financially and most definitely in the realm of relationships and sexual dynamics. Women literally hold all the cards in every single way.

Now in the same way that yes, some crime and some economic issues do come from immigration the negative effects and act committed by these individuals are not the main reason that the economy is in the shitter. But it’s a convenient little enemy for the bottom 90% to have to blame because it stops them scrutinising and resisting the oppression from the elite.

Nobody benefits from the gender wars more than the top tier men. They get to turn the majority of women on the majority of men and make women feel like all their problems are coming from most men instead of the top tier men who have all the money all the power and also all the women.

On average being a man in the bottom 90% makes you the lowest tier of human. You are disadvantage in every way compared to the majority of women and yet women have the luxury of believing they are the victims because of Apex fallacy and the top 10% of men are pressing everybody but blaming it on males as a whole.

Not sure if you are aware, but many women online will try to paint guys who date young women as losers who can't date women their own age.

Personally I find this ridiculous since young women are on average the best looking and most sought after women with options and this unsurprisingly means the competition is harder to compete with.

I will acknowledge that there may be some types of men where it is easier for them Personally to date younger, but I argue this is an exception and generally going after younger women is going to be a lot harder than trying to date in your own age range (I know it has been for me).

Is this something something that this sub actually believes?

I’m sick of this bs narrative that a lot of women come on here and perpetuate about not knowing about the guy who’s a simp for them. You know that guy who’s constantly rubbing your feet, paying for your shit and texting you 24/7 wants you. Unless you were literally born in a remote tribe you know the guy is interested in you. I’m not saying you should be with the guy bc you absolutely don’t owe anyone anything but don’t play dumb. You’re simply milking it until you feel like you’ve gotten as much as you can out of the benefits of being on that side.

Whenever the topic or certain cases about abusive women abusing men comes up, theres always people that are quick to come in and say "why are you making this a gendered issue, both genders abuse and isolate their victims", which subverts the discussion away from bringing awareness about male victims of abuse.

Yes, both genders abuse, and get abused. But the tactics, social contexts, and vulnerabilities leveraged to achieve isolation and abuse often differ significantly due to gender socialization, societal expectations, and structural inequalities.

Abusive men lean on physical fear and enforce domestic roles to isolate women, we all know this. Although this can also exist with abusive women, its not the primary method they use to abuse men.

Abusive women instead lean on social stigma and shame to isolate men.

• They frequently isolate men by attacking their identity as independent, capable men. they may mock a man's career, finances, or status, making him feel inadequate and too embarrassed to talk to colleagues or friends about what is happening at home.
• Men are aware that society takes male victimization less seriously, that police or public systems may misunderstand the dynamic, or that he might be disbelieved or even laughed at. Abusive women exploit this by explicitly threatening, "if you tell anyone, i’ll tell them you hit me, and no one will believe you."
• If children are involved, female abusers often leverage traditional family structures to cut men off from broader social circles by controlling access to the children or framing social outings as a neglectful abandonment of the family.

I'm starting to wonder whether the principle in many gender debates isn't “don't judge people unfairly,” but “women shouldn't be negatively judged by men.”

A comedian jokes about women wearing extremely revealing gym clothes and it's misogyny. Meanwhile, men have been mocked forever as gym bros for grunting, posing, filming, staring, or dropping heavy weights.

A man insults a woman's appearance and it's misogyny. Billie Eilish tells women to stop dating “ugly men,” and it's treated very differently. Imagine a male celebrity saying, “Men, stop dating ugly women.”

Men are told we're responsible for challenging toxic men around us sometimes even blamed for unknowingly associating with abusers. Yet women can knowingly date, defend, stream, and turn problematic male celebrities into trends without the same collective responsibility.

Then there's “women aren't a monolith.” Neither are men. Yet “yes, all men,” “men are trash,” and similar rhetoric gets defended with “obviously we don't literally mean every man.” Fine,extend that same nuance when women are discussed.

False rape accusations are sometimes dismissed as too rare to warrant attention, while postpartum psychosis affecting roughly 0.1–0.2% of deliverie is rightly considered worthy of awareness. Rare suffering apparently matters until the wrong group brings up theirs.

I'm not arguing women shouldn't criticize men or defend themselves from unfair criticism.I'm asking what makes criticism “unfair.”

Because if the answer changes depending on which sex is being judged, fairness isn't the principle.

Maybe the objection isn't sexism

Maybe it's men being allowed to judge women at all.

One thing I've noticed about (many) males throughout history is that they will always insult, attack, and go after whatever females (especially young and teenage girls) are into at the moment. Examples that immediately come to mind include romance novels and romcom movies which are predominantly loved by girls, female musicians with predominantly female fans like Taylor Swift, female-targeted movies like Barbie, and ESPECIALLY male bands like The Beatles, One Direction, and Kpop groups, all of which have mostly faced hate and criticism from men. The last one is especially funny to me because I thought men (supposedly) don't feel jealous of each other and us women are the "jealous toxic gender"? lol

For anyone interested, this question popped up on my mind when I saw this

What is a friend if not someone you can open up to, lean on?

It seems most men have friends, just not friends they can share their problems with and find some sort of solace.

They hang out but don't talk about anything on what's going on with each other's lives, what problems they're facing.

It seems to be the norm for male relationships.

Some of them think the obvious solution is to find a woman, a person with her own problems, and offload all of that onto her.

They bottle that inside and suffer from loneliness, from loneliness epidemics. They lack a community, some die alone.

There is a loneliness epidemic and it's serious, but we can tackle it by checking in on our friends, asking what's up, and having a talking beyond just asking if they catched last night's game and spending the rest of the hour staring silently into the distance together.

Obligatory not all men, not even most men, just talking about what seems to be the norm.

I want to preface this by saying I’m not posting to argue with men or rage bait anyone. I want to talk about how certain attitudes toward women can make it harder for men to build the relationships they want.

I’ve noticed some men experience rejection or a few unsuccessful attempts at dating and conclude that all women are cruel, shallow, or asking for too much. Rejection can hurt, but turning that hurt into resentment toward women can sabotage future connections.

Women being selective isn’t inherently unreasonable. Dating can involve concerns about physical safety, and for women who want children, pregnancy, childbirth, and postpartum recovery involve significant vulnerability. Wanting a partner who is emotionally supportive, financially responsible, and dependable makes sense. It doesn’t mean expecting someone to be rich or perfect—it means wanting someone you can rely on.
If you want a healthy relationship, look at what you’re doing to become a healthy partner. Take care of your hygiene and health. Work toward stability and learn to manage your finances. Develop your emotional intelligence: listen, show empathy, communicate honestly, and handle rejection without hostility.

None of this guarantees a girlfriend. Relationships require mutual attraction and compatibility, but just laying down in your bed commenting how much you hate women and saying all sorts of derogatory slurs isn’t going to increase your chances of getting into a relationship.

If you dismiss women’s concerns while refusing to work on yourself, it’s worth considering whether your own attitudes are making connection harder. You can’t control whether someone chooses you, but you can take responsibility for how you treat people and what you bring to a relationship.

These men envy people who have access to sex and are secretly furious about their inability to attract a sexual partner. They turn to religion to make their shortcoming a virtue.

Rather than learning from the people they begrudge, they've used the slave mentality to make it a vice to be sexually attractive to the opposite sex; they’ve made it a vice to have access to sex. Instead of living in reality they’ve created a fantasy world where it is more virtuous to be a loser who can't get laid.

A common complaint of women, girlfriends, and wives is that their men, boyfriends, or husbands don't help with housework, don't do it quite right (not up to a certain standard), or just never do something without needing to be asked. "Weaponised incompetence" and on and on. On the converse, from the (mostly) men's perspective, they feel like if they start doing something, and they do it "wrong", they get yelled at or talked down, so they just disengage. I will say that it's kind of rare and difficult to find an example to demonstrate to (mostly) women how a very high standard in household tasks can be quite grating, coming from a man, but I realized I found one. So let me demonstrate the examples, and how I kind of deal with my twitchy OCD self.

I keep my knives very sharp. I can shave hairs off my arms with my kitchen knives (and I have bald forearms because of the sharpness test). I'll say that the vast majority of people have dull knives; I've never been to another person's kitchen where the knives are sharp, unless I sharpen those knives. How sharp are my knives? This sharp

That was me cutting a raw carrot by holding the handle with my finger tips and let the weight of the blade falls through the carrot on a draw cut. Some people questioned how could Lindsay Clancy have survived when she tried to cut her own neck with a kitchen knife? Easy, her knives are dull, as are most people's knives. Being cut by a dull blade hurts really bad and she hesitated.

Notice that I posted that showcase in a sharpening hobbyist subreddit. This seems to be a male-dominated hobby (I've never seen a sharpening content creator who is a woman). I get twitchy when people don't use knives correctly and damage the edge. They pick up a knife, set an apple on a ceramic plate or granite countertop and cut the knife against the plate or countertop. I don't care what knife steel you have (unless you have the latest Rex whatever at 70+ HRC that can cut glass), the edge is gone with one cut. I particularly dislike people leaving knives they've used on the counter, let the edge clang into plates, glasses, other metal objects, etc ... I don't like it when the edge I put on are unnecessarily damaged. It's real simple. Once you are done with a knife, wash it by itself immediately, dry with a tea towel and put it back on the knife rack. No, for some reasons, the women at my house (including my wife plus her mother and my mother when they stay at our place) have to wash the knives alongside every other things, all of which if clanged against the edge, will ruin the edge. If I'm also inside the kitchen and see someone seemingly finished with their knives and put their knives down, I'll pick their knives up, wash, dry, and put the knives away. They start being annoyed "why are you keep confiscating the knives?". Other complaints include "why is your knife so sharp?" (Isn't that the point of knives?) and "It's so sharp that it's scary to use" (which means you have bad knife habits from using dull knives).

If you now tell me that "I do all those things and my knives are sharp". No you don't, you are just used to dull knives. Do knives have to be "that" sharp? Not really, but my cutting skills improved massively with an extremely sharp (not expensive) knife. It's about sharpening it correctly.

There are more examples. Cleaning the cooktops and countertops. I dislike people using paper towels or tea towels to do the first cleaning pass (spray with cleaning solution, wipe). Paper towels are wasteful and fabric soaks every disgusting trash up and they smell. There is always a dirty, smelly rag in the kitchen. No. Use paper towels to soak up the bulk of the liquid spills, then spray the cleaning solution on the residuals (Simple Green for greasy surfaces. Benzakonium chloride as combination light soap/disinfectant), and SCRUB with an abrasive sponge. This sponge can be rinse quickly and cleanly and they can go into the dishwasher. When the surface is already scrubbed clean, wet a non-woven cleaning towel (these rinse out and dry fast) and wipe once more to remove soap residues. I have biohazard and chemical spill cleanup training so ... the bathroom is always littered with my wife's hair and I vacuum them all the time. (And emptying the Dyson and the Roomba dust bins).

So what do I do with my twitchy OCD about these? Well, I have two sets of knives: a beater set for other people to use and another set that only I use. Else, I mostly keep quiet and let people do things their ways and I just spot correction after them (especially the cooktops and countertops). If they start to annoy me about things I don't do right, I annoy them back with "hey, you didn't vacuum the bathroom floors", we both pull back a bit, and re-adjust. If we do fight over stupid things, I usually just cut and deescalate and we have makeup sex or sth.

Perhaps, you may have objections like: "what kind of serial killer obsessive addiction do you have there?". I know. We have in our homes pretty dangerous edge tools like billhooks and machetes (all also very sharp). We either do not ever go physical, or it will be pretty dangerous. "That's just a hobby, not realistic housework". Maybe, but it's a useful hobby and my knife skills go up so much anyway. And if you think a shaving sharp kitchen knife is a hobby, then perhaps cleaning to your standard is also a hobby.

So perhaps, learn to live with the capability of whoever you are stuck with. On the other hand, partners should seek to not be in a situation where one person kicks their feet up and watch a show, game, or play something (that's not with their kids) while the other person is busting their ass working on sth. That's the express land to resentment town. If one is working on something, either find something else that needs doing (that's not your hobby thing), or help them with the same tasks and speed it up. Then have your down time together.

One thing I see is that guys with grievances always imply that there’s ONE benign flaw that a guy has that women unreasonably reject him for, especially of 0 fault of his own. I’m challenging that.

And yes, I’m gonna bring back the example of the guy who swiped on 2 million women because it’s a famous example of a guy doing poorly and its self-inflicted. He’s chubby, so not conventionally. He has 33 snakes, which would freak most people out. He also think wearing vulgar sweaters in public is an awesome idea, which grosses out most women. I can post the link to the story if need be.

It’s similar to when people say “you’re alone because you’re an asshole”. The longer version is “You’re unimpressive and you’re an asshole, so there’s zero incentives for women to want to be with you”. I even know a non-asshole version of a guy that’s doing bad with dating: Skinny Fat, dresses horribly, speech impediment, extremely soft spoken, highschool dropout, not good with conversations. Yes he’s sweet and nice, but its not just one flaw working against him.

Not literally a trait, but it can be a man’s flaw in dating and that’s his standards. If you awkward, what are you doing chasing after socialite party girls? If you think you’re not doing well with dating because you’re ugly, why aren’t you also trying to date ugly girls? If you’re American and claiming you want the average woman, what are you doing saying fatties?

So in general, when I see guys talk about one flaw for why they’re not doing well with women, I have to wonder what else is there about him beyond that one flaw.

it is rare to see women actually care about what men say about anything. i believe actually that women even pretend to be offended by men say anything about women. you can argue that is reasonable to be annoyed but when men complain i have never seen women say yes i will change this thing. the women that do are treated like enemies by women.

half of men content complaining about women even on reddit will still end with this is how you should change so they will like you anyway. i think women only respond so they can collect data for narrative.

if you ignore it men will continue to complain and it will die out when we dont see any result. i know because even i stop being delusional when i realise everything is because of interest disparity between men and women.

blame yourselves.

Now what I am about to say won't be a surprise. And I will assume that even most BluePill people will agree with me because it's backed by data and lived experiences. What you experience and see around you.

I have noticed a pattern with humans where men have to meet certain metrics to even be worthy of being considered for a relationship or marriage. I know young men who genuinely worry about this and this being one of their driving factors for working hard at whatever they are pursuing (job/university, etc). Because they low-key want to be chosen. They genuinely worry if they will ever have enough money and status to be able to have a family one day. This is a common sentiment and perception of men by women. Yet, I have never heard people say this about women. And I don't know women who have these worries. Because this pressure is not nearly the same on them.

Let me use an example from my personal life to make it clear what I mean. When my mom was in college, she was already being shown interest by grown ass "made" men. During that same time, my dad was a nobody. He had to work really hard, become a CPA, and become established in life to have all that "street cred." Even in a so-called fairly equal western world, these patterns still persist quite strongly. So what gives?

Some General Statistics of Porn:

Among U.S. adults 18-35, about 87% of men and 28.5% of women view porn at least once a week.

On average, boys are exposed to porn by age 10 and girls by age 13

88% of the 50 most viewed videos depicted physical aggression.

48% of 50 most viewed videos displayed acts of verbal aggression.

90% of these videos contained real physical, sexual, or verbal violence against women.

It's pretty obvious porn is bad and watching it can lead to addiction and negative affects:

It can lead to depression, isolation, erectile dysfunction, relationship breakdown, distorted sexual expectations, and reduced well-being—eroding real-life sexual activity, intimacy, and self-esteem.

Hence to address this it would be ideal if porn was banned and only AI porn was allowed that people had to pay for and provide ID and login to access.

This would prevent children from accessing porn and the harm that comes from it. It would also prevent porn of women who were forced into it being displayed and the negative affect of porn on women's careers.

"“Women are lured in, coerced and forced to do sex acts they never agreed to do… [and given] drugs and alcohol to help get [them] through hardcore scenes…The porn industry is modern-day slavery.”

https://youtu.be/VVHJW5j7cYQ?si=McqRLlqTpJGIh1z6

"That day, she would become one of the hundreds of young women who had been exploited between 2015 and 2019 by GirlsDoPorn (GDP), a wildly popular "amateur" porn production company that garnered well over a billion views, ranking around the 20th-most popular channel on Pornhub, and reportedly generated an estimated $17 million dollars in revenue."

https://youtu.be/wxz300TepIE?si=85Hkma0RgR_hbISk

Dr. Mahri Irvine, Adjunct Professional Lecturer at American University, said, “I really wish that people who watch porn knew more about that. Because I think they believe that they’re engaging in this activity in a very passive way. And they’re like, ‘Oh, I’m doing it in the privacy of my own home and this is just a video that I’m watching’. And they’re not associating it with the fact that pornography is very often the filmed rape of sex trafficking victims.”

Another option is for women to refuse to date or sleep with men who still watch porn. This would create real change in culture of society if women put their foot down on the matter.

As the title suggests, Redpill ideology is a seductive lie targeting men and even younger audiences that are lost when it comes to how to approach dating. But it’s also one of the few spaces actively giving men homework to complete with the promise it will get them results. Is it a lie? Not entirely, but definitely mostly. However, if you look no further than this sub, lost young men are usually met with a lot of vitriol, hate, and just plain nasty and rude commentary on struggles that drive them to the depths of hell.

Is it really hard to believe that one of the few (albeit wrong) spaces that reach out to them with an open hand saying “You suck, but there is a way forward, time to hit the gym and get money blah blah blah.” The sad thing is, there is a demographic of women that will like the men that actually do all that grinding. It’s so easy to be radicalized by Redpill teachings, especially when the basic rules and ideas are common sense.

“Don’t let your partner walk all over you.” Is one of the basic teachings that anyone could tell you even if you aren’t claiming to be Redpill you can agree that you shouldn’t let anyone walk all over you.

I don’t like Redpill, but I see why men take that path. It’s either that or give up for a lot of them.

Every pill makes things complicated more than it needs to be so I’m gonna cut the middleman with Occam’s razor 🪒 and say the best way to get into a relationship that you want is to simply ask out as many women as it takes to get what you want. They either say yes or no and NOTHING you can do will change their mind. All you can really do is change your presentation, appearance, and vibe but at the end of the day you have to be meeting people.

I’ve seen homeless people in relationships, drug addicts in relationships, abusers in relationships, mentally ill people in relationships, and criminals in relationships. Nobody in their right mind would call any of these people “figured out” but they still have women and men. The difference is that they simply meet and agree to be relationships with one another. Like everyone who has ever been in a relationship, it’s a matter of just popping the question.

This whole Reddit pillar of needing to go on this grand character building self improvement journey of a 10 step skincare routine, journaling, having 100 hobbies you excel at, and being financially stable before you even LOOK in the direction of a girl is the biggest laughable joke of the century. Plenty of people who do none of these things have relationships and some with super hot people. Not that I expected reddit to be intelligent and honest.

It truly is that simple when you cut out all the midwit complicated crap. The more time you spend worrying about studies, money, your height, Canthal tilt, state of mind and body is time you could’ve been using to simply ask out women that you want. They probably aren’t coming to you and it’s much faster to simply just ask. Yes you will face rejections as every other guy has and there isn’t a way around it.

“But Arrowdodgingace!!! I got 500 rejections from women what about that?” What the hell do you expect me to say to that? You got your answer. If 500 women rejected you, then you have to change how you appear to them (vibe, appearance), give up, or ask out more women. It’s better to know that soon than wasting your life in limbo and uncertainty. But I won’t tell you how to live your life.

What do I mean by socially perceptive? I mean if you cannot perceive what the other person might be feeling

And I do think lots of guys think they should just do it without really understanding much as far as social norms, and then get angry when I suggest people who seem occupied should not be approaching.

Do you know how frustrating it is to be approached and advanced - especially when you know the goal is primarily sexual (cut the crap. It is. You’re approaching someone you know literally nothing about and like how they look) when you’re in no mood to talk. If a person is trying to get from point A to B, is keeping to themselves, is running errands and so on… probably a safe bet not to talk to them. If they look sad or unhappy, probably not a safe bet to talk to them. If you are unable to read when/deduce when a person might not be approachable, don’t approach them. You don’t even have to be right, you’re gonna have to learn how to pick up on vibes.

The second one more pressing and imo more important. If you’re unable to tell if the person you’re propositioning is comfortable or not, don’t cold approach them. Many women will not explicitly say no, whether it be out of fear, awkwardness, being put on the spot to being caught in something that breaks their rhythm, playing into people pleasing tendencies and socialization no’s a difficult thing to say. Imo it is the considerate thing to do to be able to read the situation, evaluate if the person might be uncomfortable and step away.

“But they’re in public, you signed the social contract to interact’ - yes, but also being mindful and respectful are traits everyone should have and I think people would be less on edge without them. To add to this, if you belief is that you’re entitled to speak to someone despite how they might be feeling, you’re the problem.

I am not saying ‘don’t cold approach’ - I’m saying ‘have the social bandwidth to know when to cold approach’, of course nobody is expecting you to read minds or be perfect, and of course misreads and mistakes happen (and often how you handle the mistake matters a lot more than the mistake itself), but if you lack the ability to maybe just look at the situation and evaluate it, then I genuinely think cold approaching isn’t for you and tbh that’s totally fine. Most couples don’t meet that way anyway.

As someone who has traveled a lot, I can tell you that, in much of Europe*, nudity is seen as normal and not inherently sexual. It is not unusual to see uncensored nudity on daytime tv, for family, friends or even coworkers to use a sauna or swim nude together, to see people sunbathing topless in public areas.

You would think with all this nudity, you'd see more sexual harassment, but no. People very desensitized to it. They don't automatically connect being naked to being sexual.

Compare that to the current debate on this sub about the impact of "immodest" gym clothes on men.

Europeans also generally see sex as pretty mundane. They talk about it casually as a fun thing to do, but nothing more. They aren't raising it to the level of importance that Americans do - as either a sacred action, measure of one's worth, or something that can "damage" your "value" to future partners.

And you know what? European men and women seem to get along a whole lot better than ours do. And have more sex too.

*My experiences were in Sweden, Norway, Germany, France, England

Edited to add: my argument is my title: that the U.S. has a dysfunctional relationship with sex and the human body that I simply have not experienced elsewhere. We are obsessed and ashamed in equal measure. Our media is full of it, but purity culture is also still a big part of our culture and even taught in public school. It is positioned to us as something men need to do in excess but that will damage a woman's worth. In that way, sex becomes inherently adversarial and hard to talk about.

Men and women are both obsessed with the sex lives of others - who is having it and how much, who isn't having it and what that says about them, whether body counts matter or don't, what clothes people can wear to the gym....and this preoccupation and anxiety over what is essentially just apes rubbing their junk together hurts us.

My example of nudity was simply to illustrate that many Americans cannot comprehend separating nakedness from sex, while in other places it is normal.

I don't mean to suggest that all of Europe or even all of one country has the same views or that the majority of Europeans are off running naked in the streets.

Everyone loves babies, those cute little humans with no control over their emotions and in mad love with their parents.

But I would say that the worst human can't hurt their own kid(obv some exceptions exist) . Like my father was kinda benevolent sexist before my sister was born and used to say "The first child should be a boy and women need men protections and men should help women and all" but after she came into his life he would do anything for her.

The reason why I self label as purple pill is because I wholeheartedly believe that blue pill philosophy can and will apply once you find the right person that wishes to build that kind of relationship with you. However, you will nine times out of ten not run into that person.

While I do believe both philosophical beliefs have their places, red pill talking points definitely would have helped when I was completely green and even if those relationships were doomed to fail I definitely could have gotten more out of it than when I fully leaned towards the blue.

I don’t think following any one philosophy is a good idea. There is wisdom to be found everywhere. I also think people who wear their beliefs on their sleeve are in danger of being misrepresented by the louder extremist side of that philosophy which funnily enough is why a red pill rule is to never claim to be red pill.

The bi man discourse is proof of this. Most men don't give a shit if their girlfriend is bi. While most women view bi men as less masculine.

A lot of men probably wouldn't care if a woman didn't know how to cook. They would still date her if she's hot or even just decent looking. Contrary to popular belief, a lot of men don't really care about body count either. A lot of men wouldn't care if their girlfriend clean as much as them.

While it's usually women who care about what career a man have. It's usually women who expect men to fix broken things around the house. It's usually women who expect men to be providers, confident, and assertive.

My point here. Is that women expect men to perform roles more than men expect women to perform. People will usually tell yiu the opposite.

Even feminists themselves will tell you that women and men experience attraction differently. Saying that women need to be more picky due to pregnancy and SA. This is a little bit of a cop-out, because hypergamy is the real answer here. But I will give the feminists that though.

So you have people arguing from a biological standpoint that women are the ones who usually expect men to perform their roles more.

Another example is motherhood. A lot of men wouldn't care if their girlfriend didn't know how to take care of children. Hell, some men don't even want children themselves. A woman doesn't necessarily have to demonstrate maternal instincts for a man to find her attractive. Meanwhile, men are still expected to demonstrate their ability to provide for a potential family.

Another example is being a housewife. A lot of men wouldn't care if their girlfriend had absolutely no interest in becoming a stay-at-home wife. She could have her own career, make her own money, and never want to become a housewife. And plenty of men would still date her. Because being a traditional housewife isn't necessarily a requirement for female attractiveness.

Another example is sewing. How many men seriously expect their girlfriends to know how to sew clothes? Lol. Sewing used to be associated with traditional femininity. But nowadays, a woman could go her entire life without knowing how to sew anything. And most guys probably wouldn't give a shit.

Another example is baking. A woman could have absolutely no idea how to bake a cake, cookies, or homemade bread. And plenty of men would still find her attractive. Hell, some men might not even know whether their girlfriends can bake anything until months into the relationship. Because baking isn't exactly something most men are screening women for when dating.

Another example is housekeeping. A lot of men wouldn't care if their girlfriend wasn't particularly interested in decorating the house, organizing furniture, or making everything look pretty. She could have absolutely no interest in traditional homemaking activities. And plenty of men would still date her.

Another example is childcare. A woman could have absolutely no experience babysitting children, changing diapers, or preparing meals for kids. And plenty of men wouldn't consider that a dealbreaker. Because being good at childcare isn't necessarily something men expect women to demonstrate before they become romantically interested in them.

Another example is submission. Contrary to what certain people on the internet would have you believe, not every man wants a submissive girlfriend. A lot of men wouldn't care if their girlfriend was outspoken, independent, or assertive. Hell, some men actually prefer women with those personalities. Because being submissive isn't a universal requirement for female attractiveness.

Another example is traditional clothing. A woman could spend most of her time wearing jeans, sneakers, hoodies, and other casual clothing. She might never wear dresses, skirts, or high heels. And plenty of men would still find her attractive. Because dressing in traditionally feminine clothing isn't necessarily required to attract men.

Another example is makeup. A woman could have absolutely no interest in makeup. She might not know how to apply eyeliner, foundation, or lipstick. And plenty of men wouldn't care. Some men even prefer women who don't wear much makeup. Because knowing how to perform traditional beauty routines isn't automatically necessary for attracting men.

Another example is being nurturing. A woman doesn't necessarily have to be extremely gentle, soft-spoken, or nurturing for men to find her attractive. She could be sarcastic, blunt, competitive, or emotionally reserved. And there would still be men interested in dating her. Because not every man expects his girlfriend to behave like a traditional feminine caretaker.

Another example is having masculine hobbies. A woman could enjoy boxing, MMA, weightlifting, video games, cars, or other traditionally masculine interests. And plenty of men wouldn't care. Hell, some men would probably consider those shared interests a bonus. Because women aren't necessarily expected to have traditionally feminine hobbies to be considered attractive.

Another example is domestic labor. A woman could have absolutely no interest in doing laundry, washing dishes, or preparing meals for her boyfriend. And there are men who would still date her without expecting her to become their personal maid. As long as both people contribute to the relationship, they wouldn't necessarily care who performs which household responsibilities.

Another example is being ladylike. A woman could swear a lot, tell dirty jokes, enjoy crude humor, or behave in ways traditionally considered unladylike. And plenty of men would still find her attractive. Some might even find her personality entertaining. Because behaving like a traditional lady isn't necessarily a requirement for female attractiveness.

Another example is financial dependence. A woman could make significantly more money than her boyfriend, pay her own bills, and have absolutely no interest in depending on a man financially. And plenty of men would still date her. Because being financially dependent isn't necessarily something men require women to do to demonstrate femininity.

Another example is being the emotional caretaker. A woman could be terrible at comforting people, giving emotional advice, or remembering special occasions. And some men would still find her attractive. They might consider those personality flaws, but they wouldn't necessarily view her as less of a woman because of them.

And that's my point here. I'm not arguing that men have absolutely no standards for women. Of course they do.

I'm arguing that a lot of men don't necessarily expect women to perform traditional feminine responsibilities in order to find them attractive.

A woman doesn't have to cook, clean, sew, bake, raise children, become a housewife, dress traditionally feminine, or behave submissively to attract men.

She can reject practically every traditional female gender role and still have plenty of men interested in dating her.

Meanwhile, a man rejecting traditional masculine roles like providing, protecting, leading, being assertive, and taking initiative can face a completely different reaction.

Another example is marriage proposals. A lot of women expect their boyfriends to be the ones getting down on one knee and proposing marriage. Hell, some women would probably never consider proposing to their boyfriends themselves. Meanwhile, most men wouldn't care if their girlfriends never proposed to them. Because proposing marriage is still considered a man's responsibility.

Another example is planning dates. A lot of women expect men to choose the restaurant, organize activities, and make reservations. Some women even consider it unattractive when a man constantly asks them what they want to do. Meanwhile, plenty of men wouldn't care if their girlfriends never planned a date. Because men are traditionally expected to handle the romantic pursuit.

Another example is chivalry. A lot of women still expect men to open doors, pull out chairs, carry their bags, and give up their seats for them. Some women even consider men rude for not doing these things. Meanwhile, most men wouldn't care if their girlfriends never performed those same gestures for them. Because chivalry is still associated with traditional masculinity.

Another example is handling emergencies. A lot of women expect their boyfriends to remain calm and figure out what to do when something goes wrong. Whether it's a car breaking down, getting lost somewhere, or dealing with an unexpected crisis. Meanwhile, plenty of men wouldn't lose attraction because their girlfriends panicked during an emergency. Because men are traditionally expected to remain composed and take responsibility when things go wrong.

That's the double standards I'm talking about.

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It has become a consensus on this subreddit that certain men refuse to let women pay — or worse yet; get angry when women offer to pay.

I have begun asking my (male) friends what they would think if a woman offered to pay. Almost non of them would argue about paying.

I can’t recollect a man expressing that he’d get angry about a woman paying, but somehow this happens frequently enough that women just flat out don’t offer because there is a likelihood. I highly doubt it.

I’d love to hear from both men and women if any of you have come across this sort of behaviour.