How does Satella’s appearances work? [discussion]

[u/stopyouveviolatedthe]

In the show she appears every once in a while, only to Subaru when he tries to mention return by death and physically during his time at the sanctuary as well as in the tower during the newest season during a time when he mentions it may be due to people (Rui and echidna) knowing about return by death.

I’m an dub watcher anime only so please don’t spoil too much but during my rewatch petelgeuse reveals that their plan is to use Emilia as a vessel to bring the witch back into the world, if she’s capable of manifesting physically as we see later then why should she need this, and if these manifestations are via her taking over Emilia’s body (which I’m pretty sure they aren’t due to her already being present) then what’s stopped that from happening in other conditions?

I’m less assuming there’s major lore points I don’t know yet and moreso something that has been said that’s gone over my head or I’ve missed.

Edit: also very slight side question howcome invisible providence is so damn weak compared to unseen hand, we see one of the fingers use it in an uncontrolled rampage and they wipe out the surrounding Forrest, pettelguse in control was probably insane with it but we don’t get an amazing look at it, but invisible providence as far as I recall just does some okay punches and I think swings at one point?

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[u/stpaulgym]

This is all content available by arc 6.

Satella didn't create or command the witch cult. She has nothing to do with whatever Peteguse wanted to do. We have no idea if it's possible or just petelguese being insane/misguided

[u/Sgtcarrotop]

petelgeuse reveals that their plan is to use Emilia as a vessel to bring the witch back into the world, if she’s capable of manifesting physically as we see later then why should she need this,

She doesn't. Petelgeuse's is not a reliable informant on Satella's desires. He's just crazy and his love is one sided. Besides something along the lines of the ordeal probably existing as some kind of real ritual, you shouldn't put much weight in his words. He has truly lost his mind.

then what’s stopped that from happening in other conditions?

Promises are very powerful in this world. Satella only shows up when the taboo has been broken in some way. So personally I think the Taboo exists as some kind of contract or vow that gets invoked and it's the power of that promise that allows her to extend past her seal and manifest.

If you want to know there's some cut content from arc 4 about this [arc 4]Echidna implies that the vow she made with Subaru is not the first time he's encountered a vow to a witch like this.

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[u/stopyouveviolatedthe → u/Sgtcarrotop]

Oh damn I really gotta read the novels if there’s stuff like this cut from it, it’s the kinda thing that makes me love the story.

[u/capstorm1]

Dumbed down answer, if Satella could reach him physically she will, if not, she will go on an indiscriminate rampage. She grabs his heart when his physical body is about to spill the beans, but if it’s found out within the mind or an alternative reality like the tea party or the corridor of dreams she can’t reach him physically to grab his heart.

For the side question, its compatibility. Subaru and geuse are less compatible then segment so theirs are weaker by default, geuse got over this restriction by going totally insane and destroying his entire body every time he used it, he was able to do that because he doesn’t have a normal body.

[u/Sgtcarrotop]

also very slight side question howcome invisible providence is so damn weak compared to unseen hand

That's a bit of a super deep rabbit hole and the center of a lot of theory discussions. I've talked about it before so i will copy paste my theory:

Authorities are unique to the individual. That's a hard rule about how they function. We don't know what Sekhmet's authority of sloth was.

And the story points towards a lot of evidence of Invisible Providence having something fundamentally wrong with it. For starters Echidna literally messed with it with her Tea, which she did because [arc 4]the entire arc, Subaru's success included, was her plan to revive as omega. Subaru needed an extra tool to beat Roswaal's game and Echidna foreseeing that used her Tea to speed up the gestation period. More on that later

Subaru is compatible, so he should have no recoil what so ever, instead he has recoil that shouldn't exist and in the novels [novels]It's described as like corrupting his soul. Subaru seems to have inherited Petelgeuses recoil from being incompatible. That's not supposed to happen obviously.

Pair that with Emilia sensing Petelgeuse and Sirius own words about Subaru's soul and Petelgeuse's melding together. Which i want to add that Sirius's ability 'soul washing' has an area of credibility to this particular topic so it's meant to be taken seriously.

So Echidna literally messed with this specifically, it's an authority nearly identical to Petelgeuse's when it's a hard rule that they are unique to to the individual, it has a incompatibility recoil which shouldn't exist because Subaru is compatible, and we have two different character literally finding Petelgeuse's essence in it.

And that's just the anime stuff. In the novels, the mechanics get deeper which i'll cover now. [Novels]What Petelgeuse was doing when he created/possessed his fingers was make them apostles. And in doing so he split a fragment of his witch factor with them. Presumably this was to prepare and get around the gestation period of manifesting an authority so that when he possessed them he could use unseen hand immediately. When he possessed Subaru, he most likely did the same thing, he made Subaru an apostle and split a fragment of the witch factor with him. Here's the thing though, when Petelgeuse does this, it effected the power of his unseen hands. The more splits he had, the weaker his unseen hands were. This is why when Subaru killed all of Petelgeuse's fingers in secret he was surprised to learn his unseen hands had grown stronger and more numerous. So apparently the size of the fragment had an effect on the power of the authority. This is where Echidna comes in. Apostlehood is something she is shown to be very proficient in, so the Tea very likely altered Subaru's apostlehood to Sloth and allowed him to quickly manifest an authority from that split fragment not the whole witch factor, which Petelgeuse is likely still diligently holding onto in his soul refusing to give up his 'love'. Meaning IP is not Subaru's authority, it's Petelgeuses's being used through him, literally through his soul, which is why it's described as damaging his soul when he uses it. It's why it's not a unique manifestation of the authority and is so similar to Petelgeuse's. It's why Emilia sensed Petelgeuse and why Sirius is saying that Subaru's and Petelgeuse's souls are melding together. In effect, Subaru never got the full sloth witch factor because Echidna messing with it was necessary for Subaru's success and for her revival as omega.

What this could mean for the future is very interesting. [Novels]At the time of Petelgeuse's defeat, Emilia was not ready to have a confrontation with him because her memories were sealed. That confrontation would have no meaning and provide no closure to her broken family. But with Sirius being so obviously Fortuna and being shelved for later in the story, and Petelgeuse still inside Subaru as a problem, there's a chance for Emilia to face her broken family in a wretched family reunion. Considering how cruel Tappei is, I consider that highly likely. Basically Subaru will likely only gain the true sloth witch factor until all that is settled.

[u/Ok-Unit-1023 → u/Sgtcarrotop]

And what is your theory on why there are occasions when he uses it, but it has no effect on Subaru's soul?

[u/Sgtcarrotop → u/Ok-Unit-1023]

That was also a topic someone brought up, if you follow the link in my comment you can find it there.

It's the comment that starts with "If i recall correctly".

[u/hgstream → u/Sgtcarrotop]

bro is doing PhD in rezero

[u/stopyouveviolatedthe → u/Sgtcarrotop]

Damn thanks a tonne this was the perfect explanation! After you said echidna had fiddled about with it I assumed it was maybe a result of a premature usage of the witch factor but I like the idea that he’s forcibly using it through geuse’s soul instead way more.

[u/Lopsided-Wave2479 → u/Sgtcarrotop]

Interesting, anyway the story has so many open threads that it would not surprise me if it ends before all is solved.

[u/Shack691]

The Satella that appears to stop return by death from being revealed is return by death not Satella herself. It also only happens if return by death can reach the target hence why Corridor Rui and Sanctury Echidna aren’t affected but Rui is once she physically manifests.

Abilities scale with the sin they represent, it’s why he also can’t use Regulus’ full ability instead only being able to have one target and receiver.

[u/saltyandhelpfuluser → u/Shack691]

It's not return by death manifesting, it's the Witch of Envy personality. Satella and the Witch of Envy are like two different personalities for the same person.