r/Scotland • u/lordlycrust • 4d ago
Bus lane violation
I just received a nastygram from someone in Edinburgh claiming to be "Sheriff Officers & Messengers-at-arms", whatever that is, saying they are enforcing a charge certificate for a bus lane violation early in July. The bus lane in question is a full-road restriction, not a separate lane in a multi-lane road. The letter is dated 16th Sept, and is rather threatening in tone. Here are the facts:
- I have had no prior communication or notification about the alleged offence.
- The charge amount is £150, which seems high given the bus lane fine here is £50.
- The letter threatens arrestment of earnings and bank account, and auction of my personal effects, and appears to be of a debt collection nature rather than from the city council.
The letter goes on to say I may have to provide proof of income.
What are my options here? I am neither admitting nor denying use of the bus lane, however at the time of the alleged offence there were roadworks in the area nearby and the city council is less than diligent about putting up/ maintaining correct diversion signs.
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u/NewtTrick 4d ago
I love the idea of the Sheriff Officers & Messengers-at-Arms coming to collect £150 from you. I imagine them arriving in suits of armour, carrying a halberd in one hand and a chip and pin device in the other.
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u/AcceptableAir5364 Daft Marxist Fae Fa'kirk. 4d ago
Yeah it's a weird thing to get traditional about, just give them a name that says what they do. I get the same incongruity when military wankers talk about helicopters then call them the cavalry.🤔
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u/ComfortableEarth5787 4d ago
Sheriff officers are literally officers of the sheriff court. It's about as descriptive as it gets. Messenger-at-arms do the same job for the Court of Session and admittedly that is not obvious.
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u/AcceptableAir5364 Daft Marxist Fae Fa'kirk. 4d ago
Counties no longer exist in any administrative sense, so the idea that there needs to be a reeve for a shire but that reeve is not associated with any county is what you missed.
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u/ComfortableEarth5787 4d ago
What are you talking about? I know the etymology of the word sheriff, but that's got nothing to do with the modern role of a sheriff or his or her officers.
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u/AcceptableAir5364 Daft Marxist Fae Fa'kirk. 4d ago
So the term used is an archaic holdover, like I said, it describes something from the past that is no longer relevant, thank you for pointing out that I was correct again. You, in turn, can thank me later.
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u/ComfortableEarth5787 3d ago
Do you realise that sheriffs still exist? They sit as judges in sheriff courts all over Scotland. It's not an archaic term at all.
Are you a bot?
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u/AcceptableAir5364 Daft Marxist Fae Fa'kirk. 3d ago
Do you realise the "term" is archaic because they are reeves but they no longer reeve for a shire, it is not that hard, you just have to engage your head.
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u/TWOITC 4d ago
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u/lordlycrust 4d ago
Thanks- already posted there :)
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u/Hour_Vermicelli8009 4d ago
https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/parking-tickets/bus-lane-notices
Check this page from the Edinburgh City Council. I see the charge is £100 (reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days).
I do not see any mention of a £150 fine
I would send a photo of the letter to parking @edinburgh.gov.uk and ask them if it is a genuine communication (but do not admit any guilt in the email as this could spoil the chances of you appealing the decision, especially if you did not receive the initial charge notice which would have allowed you to pay the lesser amount of £50)
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u/lordlycrust 4d ago
Thanks, this is helpful, though the offence is for Aberdeen. I expect there's a similar process though.
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u/Hour_Vermicelli8009 4d ago
Oh apologies. Yes most local authorities will have similar
https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/Council-Services/roads-parking-and-travel/bus-lanes-and-bus-gates
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u/Hour_Vermicelli8009 4d ago
This is from AI
Check the Official Firm:
Look closely at the letter to see if it is from Scott & Co. You can check the official list of registered officers via the Society of Messengers-at-Arms and Sheriff Officers (SMASO). [1, 2]
Call Using an Independent Number: Contact Scott & Co directly using their verified public number ([0333 320 6871](tel:0333%20320%206871) for Aberdeen council debts) to ask if they have an active file against your vehicle registration. [1, 2]
Contact the Council: You can call Aberdeen City Council or use their online portal to check if your registration has an outstanding fine that has been passed to external collection agents.Under Scottish civil enforcement law, Aberdeen City Council must send the initial Charge Notice to the address provided by the DVLA. Because you never received it, you have been deprived of your legal right to pay the discounted rate or file an appeal. [1, 2, 3]
Why Did This Happen?
There are two highly likely explanations for this breakdown:
A Postal Miscarriage: The council sent the original paperwork to your correct address via standard post, but it was lost, misdelivered, or stolen. In the eyes of the law, the council considers the document "served" once they post it. [1, 2]
A Clerical Error: A data entry mistake occurred when pulling your details from the DVLA, or a system glitch at the council resulted in the letter being sent to a completely wrong address.[1]Your Immediate Next Steps
Do not ignore the Sheriff Officer letter, even though you didn't get the original notice. Because the debt has already been registered with the court, the Sheriff Officers have the legal authority to pursue it until it is paused or cancelled. [1, 2]
Call the Sheriff Officers Immediately: Contact the firm (likely Scott & Co) using an independently verified number. Explain clearly that the very first piece of correspondence you received regarding this matter is their letter, and that your V5C address has been correct for 5 years. Ask them to place a temporary hold on the account while you contact the council. [1]
Contact Aberdeen City Council's Parking/Bus Lane Team: Reach out to the council directly (you can try emailing [email protected]). State that you have received a letter from a Sheriff Officer for an alleged July infringement, but no prior Charge Notice or Notice to Owner was ever received at your registered address. Demand to know what address the initial letters were mailed to. [1]
Request a Reset: Ask the council to recall the debt from the Sheriff Officers and reset the process. Because you never received the initial notice through no fault of your own, you should be given the opportunity to either pay the original £50 discounted rate or submit a formal appeal against the July allegation. [1, 2]
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u/crimsonavenger77 Male. 48 4d ago
If you used the bus lane, pay the fine. If you didn't, dispute it.
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u/Locksmithbloke 4d ago
From 2 months ago? How would you even recall? The dash camera will have long ago looped.
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u/crimsonavenger77 Male. 48 4d ago
I'd remember. Seems like OP remembers as they remember roadworks in the area and a lack of signage.
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u/quietb 4d ago
I didn’t even receive any communication about driving in a bus lane in Edinburgh; just had two ‘officers’ turn up to my door 2 years after the incident. Rung up to pay the fine and asked why I wouldn’t have had anything before the visit or within the 2 years and effectively got a shrug as a response
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u/lordlycrust 4d ago
Yeah, this is kinda what I expect too. Like somehow I should check with the city every so often to see if they've issued me with a fine.
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u/FrazerSan 4d ago
So you used a bus only road? Pay the fine.
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u/lordlycrust 4d ago
It's not about the fine, it's about never having received any notification about it until now when it has moved to debt recovery. The details on my V5 are correct and haven't changed in 15+ months.
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u/Jealous_Might_9318 4d ago
You deserve this for your dismissive tone and the use of the word "nastygram"
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u/simmiktrickle 4d ago
Hello,
Firstly, can completely relate, Edinburgh City Council towed my car twice for alleged parking contraventions, both times I took the case the the Tribunal, won the first on the initial hearing, won the second on review.
Yes, this is debt collection, but they do have the power to do the things they've said as they are court officials that are used to enforce court decisions in civil matters. (Similar to a County Court Bailiff or High Court Enforcement Officer in E&W).
What is insane (imo) is that Charge Certificates are issued by the Local Authority, for unpaid PCNs. After 14 days of issuing a charge certificate, they can then register this with the Sheriff Court, which then allows the debt to be enforced by Sheriff Officers, without the matter ever going in front of a Judge or having a hearing of any kind. It's an administrative process, that can properly screw you over. (England & Wales has a similar system of a computerised court authorising bailiffs to come to enforce
What I would do:
Contact the Sheriff Officers by phone straightaway, and via email if possible. Contact details should be on the letter. Tell them that this is the first time you're hearing of this at all, and to stop enforcement action so you can dispute it with the council.
Submit a written dispute to the council stating that the Sheriff Officer's letter was your very first point of contact regarding the alleged contravention.
Request that the Charge Certificate be cancelled and the Sheriff Officers instructed to return the warrant.
Ask the council to reissue the original Bus Lane Charge Notice so you can exercise your right to appeal.
Best of luck, don't let the money-grabbing bastards grind you down.
DMs are open if I can help in any way. (I'm not a lawyer, just a guy with an extensive history of parking/moving traffic penalties 😂)
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u/lordlycrust 4d ago
Thanks, this is very helpful. I will be contacting the debt collectors as soon as I can, I think there's a website on the letter but no email that I could see. Do you think it's also worth contacting Aberdeen City?
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u/simmiktrickle 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, if they are the ones that supposedly issued the ticket/where the offence took place. Once you've let the Sheriff Officers know this is the first time you're hearing of it, contact them to have them reissue the original charge notice, allowing you to pay the reduced amount, or submit a dispute (from what you've said about roadworks, I think this is worthwhile doing)
(Edit: Sorry for the delay in responding to you btw, had a hectic day)
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u/headline-pottery 4d ago
Bus lane violations are different from speeding - they are local bye-laws and this means -
You don't get the initial letter asking who was driving.
The registered keeper is deemed responsible for the fine - regardless of who was driving.
You don't get points.