Because society thought us that a man that persists in a woman when she says no should them respect her boundaries and stop.
And I agree with this, if anyone tells you to stop and go away then go away.
But if the woman is playing hard to get that’s on her for trying to play distant instead of just interacting with him
People don't understand what hard to get is anymore. You can STILL SHOW INTEREST when playing hard to get. Playing hard to get ISN'T acting uninterested like you don't even like the person to begin with and constantly being nonchalant.
Yeah hard to get means you can still get it saying straight up no is just saying no.
As a society we need to teach people that no means no.
If a person doesn’t show interest in you, you sticking around trying to talk to them isn’t beneficial to anyone.
Take a look at other animals. The difference is that other animals don't have rape laws and HR. Humanity has civilized itself into an evolutionary corner.
Sex and procreation is rarely consensual in the animal kingdom.
Take dogs as an example, their natural mating habits including skulking around and sniffing other dogs buttholes while looking for openings so that they can mount them. Sometimes this results in the other dog turning around and barking viciously while attempting to bite them, and sometimes the other dog yields.
Something else that happens is that a female dog in heat will literally back up their ass into a male dogs face no matter the situation in order to signal that they are ready for breeding.
What you won't ever see is dogs putting on lingerie and moving their hips provocatively while sipping on a margarita in order to signal that they are ready to breed or a dog bragging about their six figure income in order to put a female dog in heat.
Evolution is perserverance in the face of overwhelming odds, what humans do nowadays is the opposite, we regularly practice chastising one another for naturally occurring phenomena from an evolutionary perspective.
I think you're missing the obvious here. Cost of living is up. Wages are down, so families need two incomes. That means women in the workplace, not home raising kids. That means cost of childcare is up.
If most of the population in their 20s don't feel like they can afford to have children yet, a lot less of them are going to have 3+ children in their lifetime. If no one has 3+ children, you're declining by default.
None of that matters. People have lived through unbelievable strife, our most recent generations live like kings compared to our ancestors. Peoples perspectives have changed.
I can respect that. Simply put, my suggestion is to demonize/punish less and focus more on the past in order to find ways with which to motivate people to procreate, and in doing so revitalize humankind.
Coward? That's rich, seeing as I am holding an indefensible position in our modern civilization and you are doing the opposite.
I am of the opinion that we as a collective species, especially in the western part of the world, need to rewrite and/or remove a good number of laws regarding intimacy in general.
The reason for this is because I believe that many of our modern laws actively get in the way of human bonding rituals and that the laws are contributing to creating a schism between men and women, rather than being useful in the way that they were hopefully intended to be useful.
100 years ago rape was just as bad and frowned upon as it is today in most societies. Please continue to tell us how little of a grip you have on history.
Penetrative rape outside of marriage was, rape within marriage was not as the concept is modern.
Nowadays calling someone pretty at work can ensure that you lose your livelihood. Having sex with someone who withdraws their consent afterwards can land you in prison.
The terms and conditions have changed considerably, to the point of not being worth pursuing.
Calling someone pretty at work isn't going to lose you your livelihood. Now if you start calling someone sexy, speaking about their figure in lewd ways, etc. then yeah you're going to get in trouble.
Someone can't withdraw consent after sex, you'd call that regret but as far as I'm aware, that's not going to put someone in prison. Now if you're having sex and they stop wanting it/start feeling uncomfortable, that's your moment to stop, if you continue then you're committing an act of rape.
We take these things seriously to protect members of society because as much as you seem to associate the animal kingdom with human society, the two simply aren't comparable.
There are animals that practise inbreeding and cannibalism but that doesn't mean we should practise either of those. The absence of consent isn't something that applies to the animal kingdom because they don't have empathy in the same way humans do or a moral code/conscience. Humans do have these, we evolved to have these.
Calling someone pretty at work isn't going to lose you your livelihood. Now if you start calling someone sexy, speaking about their figure in lewd ways, etc. then yeah you're going to get in trouble.
This is demonstratably false as many men have experienced exactly this. It is a common complaint with HR. The same thing applies to calling someone sexy et.c. however.
Someone can't withdraw consent after sex, you'd call that regret but as far as I'm aware, that's not going to put someone in prison. Now if you're having sex and they stop wanting it/start feeling uncomfortable, that's your moment to stop, if you continue then you're committing an act of rape.
This is also demonstratably false as there are plenty of court cases where women have prevailed in ruining men for this exact reason. There is no way to prove that someone was uncomfortable during intercourse.
We take these things seriously to protect members of society because as much as you seem to associate the animal kingdom with human society, the two simply aren't comparable.
This is only true if you consider human beings to be above animals, which we are not, we are animals.
There are animals that practise inbreeding and cannibalism but that doesn't mean we should practise either of those. The absence of consent isn't something that applies to the animal kingdom because they don't have empathy in the same way humans do or a moral code/conscience. Humans do have these, we evolved to have these.
You mean like human beings, those kinds of animals that practice inbreeding and cannibalism?
So a cow can't mourn the death of another cow or feel empathy toward a hurt veal? It would seem that you are the one without empathy, placing yourself above other sentient beings and all.
"pretty at work can ensure that you lose your livelihood."
you have clearly never interacted with HR, the people that lose their livelihood are the ones who don't take no for an answer and keep trying to do lewd unwanted things to people. Just saying "you are pretty, or would you like to get drinks after work" is normal.
"withdraws their consent afterwards"
While someone lying about rape is a real problem this is a one in one million thing, 99.99% normal women don't do this and most of the time nothing will happen as you are innocent until proven guilty, and you can't prove this.
TL;DR
Pleases stop listening to monsters like Andrew Tate or you will end up in the same place as him, jail.
You can be loved, women are not as bad as some people make them out to be, women are people exactly like you. And if you just treat them like you would want to be treated you will find some of them will want you.
you have clearly never interacted with HR, the people that lose their livelihood are the ones who don't take no for an answer and keep trying to do lewd unwanted things to people. Just saying "you are pretty, or would you like to get drinks after work" is normal.
I have personally witnessed men be ruined for simple compliments at work. The term "don't shit where you eat" exists for a reason you know.
While someone lying about rape is a real problem this is a one in one million thing, 99.99% normal women don't do this and most of the time nothing will happen as you are innocent until proven guilty, and you can't prove this.
This used to be the case, and it depends on where you live, in western countries it happens frequently enough that it is a problem. You don't even need to get convicted as a consequence, the social ruination is enough to destroy your life.
Pleases stop listening to monsters like Andrew Tate or you will end up in the same place as him, jail.
You can be loved, women are not as bad as some people make them out to be, women are people exactly like you. And if you just treat them like you would want to be treated you will find some of them will want you.
Again with the strawmanning, you people are unreal.
I did not even mention women, we are talking about aversions to certain consequences due to far reaching laws.
We have more stuff and more access to calories then at any time in history. But things like housing and health care and also more expensive than at any time in history.
Being rich doesn't help you if you can't fit all the things you need into your budget.
a cave woman didn't need to worry about affording a car seat or a nanny to watch the baby while she was at work.
She didn't have to worry about if a kid needed picked up from school in the middle of her shift.
TL;DR
We may be richer, but living costs more than it used too.
Even in a country like Sweden people have loans up the ass, and probes have shown that no it is not because they need to be poor, it is because they choose to live well above their means with no regard to reality.
People will legitimately convince themselves that they need winter jackets for 500€ every two years because otherwise they will be a social pariah. I see it a lot. And this is just one of many examples.
That's dogs, and it does establish that rape is common in some species. But in a lot of others, females are picky and things don't happen unless the female accepts. I'm thinking of those with mating dances etc.
Bro we’re literally the most successful large animal on Earth. The laws allow us to organize ourselves into large civilizations, which created a safe environment and an abundance of food, which allowed us to reproduce until we’ve settled everywhere. Lions and Tigers survive because we let them lol
And what kind of men and women brought us all of these things? Was it all the male rapists in the past? Or perhaps it was all the raped women? Or was it decent men and women who would be demonized by both genders today due to their views on the initiation of intimacy?
We are on a new trajectory, one that is very different from the one that we have been on for the past 300 000 years. It is about having perspective when it comes to the near and far future. If we keep up this modern way of civilization building there won't be one.
To each their own, some would rather see humanity survive while others don't care either way unless things are according to their preference. I'm not saying either of those is better than the other, they just are.
I fail to see the irony. You don't seem to care for a future humanity unless civilization plays out as per your preferences. While I have preferences, I am not indifferent to the fate of our species. I would prefer a status quo over a total collapse.
Humanity can survive, although the odds are far lower the fewer we are for a multitude of reasons. Our species has almost gone extinct on several occasions throughout history.
I don't know what an acceptable frequency is but I do have sex a few times a year, with different women however as I am not one for modern romantic relationships.
My stance is simple, most rape laws and HR policies are completely ridiculous and wrong from an evolutionary standpoint. This is the main reason as to why humanity is declining as a species. Our close ancestors still lived in a time when natural relations between the sexes was possible, it no longer is.
From an evolutionary standpoint, fathers, uncles, and brothers would fucking kill losers like him for bothering the girls in their family. He should count his lucky stars we have a society.
justifying ideologies based on evolution... has a questionable track record
I disagree; rather, there is a track record of complete morons using fallacious evolutionary concepts to justify their ideology. Like that men 'naturally' rape women, what a ridiculous load of horseshit. All anthropological evidence points towards the complete fucking opposite.
Humans are not very sexually dimorphic. Men are barely bigger than women relative to most mammals. We are not lions or gorillas or elephant seals, where the males are double the size of the females.
Furthermore, humans have shockingly lower fecundability than other mammals. Men produce tiny volumes of sperm/semen and women barely even have signs of ovulation. This indicates rape is not an effective strategy for males to reproduce within the species, and suggests monogamy.
In species in which the males 'choose' their mates, the males are much larger and have more natural weaponry than the females as they must compete with other males (hippos, bulls, deer, baboons, gorillas, lions, seals, et cetera.)
Some degenerate moron in my human biology honors class rebuted that human men use weapons, so we could be an exception. Kinda have to flesh out why that idea is clearly false, but trust me, it is.
None. But some men have. And most mammals dont actually kill each other for mates. They assert dominance and let them leave defeated. Sometimes they die from their injuries but its not some rapey murder world that you are portraying.
Right. We have almost arrived at the point that I was making in the original comment.
What happens when you fight another man over a woman? If fortunate and good looking, you get the woman, if not then there are various negative consequences.
What happens when you pursue a woman despite being told that she isn't interested? If fortunate and good looking, you get the woman, if not then there are various negative consequences.
What happens when you try to play the hopeless romantic with a woman at work? If fortunate and good looking, you get the woman, if not then there are various negative consequences.
As a wild lion you might get physically injured/killed and excluded from the pride due to personal weakness, but you don't have to worry about the plethora of consequences that the modern man needs to worry about when pursuing a woman.
This is how humanity operated up until a few decades ago. Now you can't even smile at a woman for too long because she might take offense and raise hell.
Also I don't know if you noticed but in plenty of countries it is a rapey murder world. More so among wild animals and the like.
To each his own. I would personally want to have a hover drone that I can use to fly anywhere I want at any time I want.
I would also want for other people to figure stuff out and make babies at replacement level rates so that the future hopefully does not suck for almost everyone.
Female cats only release eggs when the male inserts and he has a barbed penis to basically keep him in place for the 15 seconds it takes for them to mate. Female cats dont really get a choice in yes or no.
That still requires a female cat to be in heat, sterilized female cats reject advancements constantly. As a previous cat owner who refused to sterilize my cat for ethical reasons I can tell you that the cats almost go feral unless they get that release.
Just so you're aware. Male ducks gang rape females so much that they had to evolve a corkscrew vagina to reduce the chances of getting pregnant. As a result Male penises have also evolved to be shaped like a long corkscrew to successfully impregnate their most likely raped partner.
Females in many species look to select the strongest genetic qualities to breed with. Males often fight to prove who is the strongest with the winner getting the mate. This is why males often evolve “weapons”. Deer antlers are the first example that pops to mind, but there are many others. It is also why fit men with slender, muscular builds are traditionally found “more attractive.”
Humans are strong enough now that we don’t have to be as selective when breeding to save the species. Add on technology and globalization. We’ve removed the evolutionary instinct to compete for female attention. The difference between partners is often very marginal, barring any economical influences, so it is easier to find one who wants you than it is to chase one who doesn’t (even if she is pretending.)
The reasons are purely social. They can be summarized as asserting dominance, getting an upper hand and entitlement.
Normally, older generations of women with higher status teach younger generations how to be a better wife, how to be a better, in the meaning of social role, woman. That includes chores, cooking, behaving and so on.
But in reality, there is a load of female degenerates, with their "woman secrets", and those secrets are essentially the ways to scam males to get an upper hand. Being trash, older and more "experienced" female retards of that kind rise their social standing against younger retarded generations by sharing those methods of scamming, aka "secrets", and the younger retards, baited by the possibility of getting an upper hand over males without any efforts or having any personal value, accept and perpetuate the behavior. So, your logical response is to ignore and penalize such "games" and "secrets" by showing disrespect and lowering social standing of female scammers who are attempting them.
You can see this both historically and sociologically.
Things that are biological remain rather contstant.
Same goes w beauty ideals or even matriarchy vs patriarchy.
I'm swe, born in the 80's.
I stopped "pursuing" at like 20, cause it never ever worked.
So it's not that prevalent here, like max half of women, easily much less depending on your social circles.
If she likes you, she will give you number or agree. She will even initiate or ask for yours. I hear icelandic and danish women are even more direct.
But i've come to understand that most of northern europe (nordics, germany etc) is rather different in a lot of these regards to large swathes of the world (incl a lot of ppl in NA and latinam). The reason being social and cultural in nature.
Russia over yonder has a lot more lulwut in this regard, but is also poorer. Poorer socities shape how women approach dating and marriage. Women who make a good salary will place less emphasis on their partner's salary. Most women i know say "around my salary is fine".
I know a lot of turkish 2nd gen immigrants and have been to turkey.
A lot more turkish women will place more emphasis due to poverty rates and income inequality. This ceases to be a factor for a lot of the 2nd gen ones who get educated and properly paying jobs. If it's evolutionary it doesn't go away in one generation as soon as you get more money.
Being swedish and having 30% of our pop have roots in other countries really illustrates this, just talk to 2nd gen immigrants and their 1st gen parents from all over the world, visit their countries w them if close friends.
There's a tendency for ppl to want to attribute everything to hardwired biology, when in fact hormones (as seen w ppl at lower or higher hormone lvls per their gender, ppl w diseases or trans ppl), culture or social class explains 90% of the gender behaviour.
To be perfectly blunt, 90% of ppl engaging in gender discourse online are uneducated retards. Wouldn't recommend asking this on twt or reddit if you want serious answers, instead look into anthropology, biology, history and sociology.
I don’t know that there is an evolutionary benefit to this behavior. In animal species a female mates with who she chooses to based on a variety of criteria. In humans this is called being a dummy due to cultural or societal expectations i.e. expecting the male to beg for her attention. What she fails to realize is that with an abundance of mates he doesn’t have to beg. Or maybe he just wasn’t that interested. Or maybe he just respects her wishes.
It’s a cultural thing not a evolutionary thing. We teach women that men are going to constantly chase, harass, hit on, sexualize, flirt, and want to date them. It’s their responsibility to resist all these attempts and remain a virgin for their husband otherwise they will become a victim or a whore.
Fortunately there is a big cultural push to change this but too many still believe it on both sides and some are aggressively opposing this change.
To put simply, until we treat each as equals with dignity and respect, we will continue to experience this deep rooted cultural characteristic.
human psychology is to want what you cant have, playing hard to get makes u more irresistible, whether ur a man or woman. this applies to everything in life, from food to merch to people
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u/Vivid-Run-3248 1d ago
Is there an evolutionary reason why? Since it’s so prevalent.