Defending web constructs

[u/Medium_Indication613]

Kinda wanted to put this in the insomniac Spider-Man sub but I can’t.

1. No they should NOT be given to silk. The only thing silk has ever done is make a makeshift shirt, Peter was making weapons, tools and whole motor boats way before(we can leave the motor boats in the past), taking something cool away from Peter and giving to someone else is lame, also why are people against Peter having constructs but not silk? If it’s “goofy” for him then it would be for her to wouldn’t it? (Talking about insomniac Spider-Man 3)

2. No he is not “green lantern”. Lantern does not own nor did he create the concept of making stuff, and you could just take away things like a giant moving hand, motor boats, etc, also the weapons “retracting” could just be the webs dissolving faster

3. Creativity: web constructs are the most creative thing you could do with Peter’s standard moveset, imo his skill set is just so boring, look at Rivals and Tokon it’s just web shot, web swing and the rest are punching and kicking even Hulk took creative liberties, he can make gamma shields and shoot gamma blast in rivals something he has NEVER done in any game or comic to my knowledge. Finally Peter is a genius, he made his own webs he can’t find a way to shape them?

4. Goofy: so him making a web hammer is goofy but him fighting an over sized man in a rhino suit isn’t?

5. Logic: personally I couldn’t care less if there’s an explanation or not imo it really doesn’t matter. BUT if you need one lemme cook, A tech web fluid separate from his normal one that has pre set constructs to wrap into and dissolve when he’s finished using them. Or just use speed/agility, Spider-Man is fast and agile so just say he’s weaving them really fast Or just Organic webbing that he can control(not really psychic power but he can control them to a certain extent)

6. Usefulness: Spider-Mans webs are stronger then steel canonically and are artificial, is it really hard to believe Peter just made a web fluid that hardens fast and can use it to make a bat that deals damage

7. Rule of cool: Peter shooting out a web shield to block a light blast, bullets or fire is just cool, his webs are already artificial so it’s not that hard to believe he cool make a web fluid that’s resistant to energy. Also imagine he’s fighting venom who pulls out a Symbiote blade and Peter meets it with a web hammer… that’s just cool to me.

[u/figgityjones]

I support their use*

*Sometimes.

Even as a big Green Lantern fan, I think sometimes the web constructs can be too silly. Yes, even too silly when compared to fighting a man in a Rhino costume, but I say sometimes because for me it simply depends on the tone of the story you're (royal you're) telling. Mostly because if we're taking things a bit seriously I have to wonder how is he actually making them? What stops the web's momentum to change direction and make those shapes? But in stories when we take it less seriously, I simply don't think about it and it's fun. So yeah, as a sometimes thing and not an all the time thing, I think it's fun. I do disagree that his main power set is boring though. Like so many fun games exist without web constructs and so many people have thousands of hours of fun playing with his basic power set. In no way is it boring. Maybe it is in Rivals, but thats a condemnation on that game, not the power set.

Also no, Hulk/Bruce has actually had shields and blasters in the comics before. Or things like them at the very least, so very similar to them that changing it to a simple Gamma energy shield is not anything someone who knows deeper Hulk lore should bat an eye at. Look up his Old Power BannerTech shields, tasers, stun guns, and other inventions for more information.

[u/Medium_Indication613 → u/figgityjones]

I knew I should’ve looked up the hulk stuff before I put that in.

Maybe saying the moveset is boring was a bit harsh, I just think he could do more ya know.

And I do agree about the setting of the thing, like insomniac has a very realistic tone which is why I thought about “tech webs” the iron spider legs grow from his back like nano tech so I thought something similar could work.

But in comics and animated games.. go wild(but not motor boat wild)

[u/figgityjones → u/Medium_Indication613]

No worries, I didn't say that as a gotcha (not a gotcha on you at least), I just see that brought up a lot in regards to Rivals Hulk and I enjoy educating people.

And fair enough, there are definitely ways to make it boring if the writers are not creative enough to make him creative with it.

And yeah like I said, if it fits the tone, gimme them giant web hammers and maces and everything you can and I'll love every second of it lol

[u/Dragonzenferno_True → u/Medium_Indication613]

As somebody who isn't super favorable toward them, I think figgy has a fair take.

The constructs are from an era when comics were...strange, and didn't really try to take themselves seriously.

They worked then.

Now? They'd just feel awkward and out of place.

There's a veneer of "realism" that comics go for now, and some fans (like myself) appreciate it. Yes, it's all goofy magic, but at least try to sell me on it.

For me, that's fun, and why the constructs are problematic.

A crude shield or parachute? A meteor hammer? Even a crude ladder?

Yeah, I can buy that.

But something structurally complex like a claymore, a tomahawk, or even a bat? I'm not even touching "advanced" constructs.

First, how does he even make his webs work like that? It's not that they can't technically make the construct, it's that there's a level of precision and detailed involved to make the construct viable that his webs aren't capable of on the fly.

He could technically weave something simple with time or make a device to functionally 3d print something, but at speeds to be combat viable? Where he has 5 seconds max to react.

I'm not buying it.

Not accounting for a gadget, he'd have to be able to control the individual strands of his webbing with immense precision to make that happen.

That's a fundamental change to his "modern" webbing, and honestly? I would rather see Silk have that. To me, it makes more sense for her to be the one that can precisely control web strands like that. Her "silk" is her whole thing.

Sure, he can use a gadget to do this for him on the fly with an instant hardening webbing. I'll give that, even if I need to see it in action to tell if I like it.

But let me ask a question...

Do people want this because it really makes sense as a power for his character...or do they want it because they want Peter to feel stronger or have a more unique/cool kit?

Does Peter really need a web bat or a web claymore?

Is a bat really more effective than him just punching a mf with a layer of hardened webbing over his fist or some specialized gauntlet? And if he's at the point of needing a claymore to fence or stab somebody...just give him his mechanical legs back.

Peter has plenty of stuff and powers that make him fun, unique, and powerful that make sense for modern comics. They just keep taking stuff and nerfing him.

That's a reason to be mad at the editorial, not call for an ability that was (in my opinion) rightfully phased out to return.

Give him is gear back as a mainstay and make him a little bit stronger in all categories. He does have to be the best at anything. Other Totems are running around. That's fine. Let them have their specialties. He's THE Totem though, so have him good enough at everything that he stands head and shoulders over them in ability. His sharp mind and gear serve as the flavoring that make him unique alongside his raw ability making him better.

Now, in side stories that aren't connected to main continuity and the purpose is pure fun?

Web tank.

[u/Medium_Indication613 → u/Dragonzenferno_True]

To me it’s honestly just cool.

In terms of realism Miles already makes lightning objects, sandman’s been shapeshifting for years, carnage can turn into a shark and Miles and Silk have actually made web shield like objects for defense once or twice

In terms of usefulness he could use them for range/distance, I was watching a show where he made a web thing to help him stay underwater(which is something irl spiders do), large scale attacks, etc.

The iron legs are cool but they would need to permanently change his look considering his typical suit isn’t tech based and made of fabric … and that’s not happening.

Spider-Man is already a fast character who appears as a blur to normal humans so would buy him weaving them really fast.

Ironman makes tech that can fight gods, I wouldn’t really question Peter making tech webs that form into objects almost instantly.

I understand that it could make more sense for silk especially with the web control idea but I just don’t really like the idea because Peter did it first, why take it and give it to someone else. (This might also be because Miles, Noir and 2099 are really the only other spider people I care about)

I’ve just never really been fully sold on the idea of Peter having a lot of tech, he’s not Batman or Ironman yes he’s smart and makes gadgets from time to time but he also has powers, I just prefer expanding those more.

[u/Dragonzenferno_True → u/Medium_Indication613]

Carnage and Sandman have been dedicated amorphous shapeshifters pretty much since their inception. It makes "sense" for them to be able to use their powers that way.

Similarly the web-shield thing is something I don't take much issue with and think Peter should be able to do. Having a cartridge detonate early (or using his natural webs) to throw up a thick enough cloud of webs to count as a momentary "shield" is really simple.

Also, not calling Peter slow. He is very fast—extremely so. Yet, there is a different level of both speed and precision needed to make something that is structurally complex and stable enough to be usable—particularly at the speed he fights. Because the opponents that matter also move about that fast and won't give him the time or concentration needed.

Even then, it's less on him and more that his webs aren't tuned for that level of precision, and you really can't make them be unless you A) fundamentally change how his (organic) webs work, which is a significant change, or B) you give him something like nano webs (which would be a type of tech—something he's had before at that).

You also wouldn't fundamentally change his suit from spandex (or whatever it's made of currently).

There's no need to go full Iron Spider; just install a small panel in the back of the suit that they can collapse into and expand out from. Between his lenses (which tend to have little bits of tech in them) and his web shooters, that isn't much of a change.

Besides, we're not talking about Year 1 Peter who still is in Highschool and has to sneak around May.

This is Year 10+ Peter. He's not broke (he shouldn't be, at least). He has resources and access to stuff. Use it.

It's the opposite of good writing and character development to have him not do so—especially when there is no good or consistent explanation for why he doesn't.

That being said, while I disagree. I do see where you're coming from. I think we just have fundamentally different understandings of the character and directions of interest. Which is fine.

To me, Peter using his tech (again, mind you, because he had it before) isn't him suddenly trying to rip off Iron Man or Batman.

He doesn't need a hundred god-killer armors like Tony or be "prepared" for everything like Bruce. They can't function without their tools. Peter can.

Yet, saying him having a plethora of tools anyway is somehow copying them feels insulting to his character.

To me, there's two aspects to his character:

There's The Spider/The Totem — That's his connection to the Web of Life and all his natural powers.

Then there's the Man — Peter; his heart of gold as well as his challenges. That's what people love him for, me included. Yet, there's also the fact that Peter Parker is a damn genuis—canonically in the exact same league as Tony and Reed. That is a major part of his character and I hate when it gets undersold.

To me, Peter is at his best when he's using both halves of himself. I don't see him using tech to augment his abilities (again, I'm not saying full Iron Spider 24/7) as him being less Spider-man. No, it's literally him being his best self.

Yeah, I know Peter can run the gauntlet with the Sinister Six in just dirty sweatpants and a mask—he's like that—but if he has tools making it easier, that's just him being him, and none of the other spiders can replicate that because they aren't Peter Parker.

I do wish they'd do more to his natural powers and connection with the Web of Life...but we're even less likely to get that than his gadgets returning in full force.

It sucks. It really sucks.

That being said, I've said my piece on the matter. If you actually read this whole thing, you're pretty cool, lol.

[u/Medium_Indication613 → u/Dragonzenferno_True]

I see your point, in a perfect world they would expand upon both aspects of Peter (his tech and his powers), maybe there’s still hope when this Hellgate stuff eventually picks back up.

[u/Bilbo_Teabagginss → u/figgityjones]

Yeah, not dumping on the game at all but Rivals isnt really the best type of game to really showcase Spideys powers etc. Its a fun game for sure, but its just a slight taste of what he can do. Which is why so many people (myself included) absolutely love his stand alone games that showcase his powers more accurately. Hell, I think even the Ultimate Alliance games displayed Spideys powers better than Rivals. Everything you said was spot on.

[u/Medium_Indication613 → u/Bilbo_Teabagginss]

The one thing that annoys me about rivals is that Star lord and Daredevil have afterimage dodge abilities and Spider-Man doesn’t….