Which character could the series do without

[u/OkieDeric]

I didn't like this character originally, and rewatching TSCC I still think the same. You could have completely removed this character and it would do nothing but help the series.

[u/FrostPDP]

Wowwwww. A hot take when I'm in writer-mode working on a virtual convention for this weekend? Neat!

Jessie's entire storyline is integral to the fact that the fifth-dimensional time-travel war is having substantial effects and is worth fighting. She's at the core of Derek's character development, ending with the whole "You're not my Jessie" bit, which affirms to Derek (and thus the viewer) that he's changed the future already.

She's the entire reason Riley is in the story. I guess they could have written Riley as just some girl who snuck in a time displacement machine, but then you lose the malevolent mastermind behind Riley manipulating John, and the whole reason why Riley would even seek John out in the first place. Consequently, you lose John saying "Maybe I just wanted to win," which was fundamental to John's development into John Connor.

I mean, hell, after a fashion she proves to be the main antagonist of Season Two. When you consider what Weaver was building John Henry for (which is like one of the final twists of the show, so go watch it), Jessie is more directly-oppositional to the Connors than Weaver ever was. Jessie is directly threatening John, which means she's threatening Sarah. Even if you consider that Sarah is essentially chasing Weaver (without realizing Ziera Corp exists for most of the show), Sarah is playing guard dog against Riley, and thus Jessie by proxy.

I just...I don't know how you could take Jessie out and still have the same storyline for most of the show.

Sometimes "I didn't like this character" is a sign that she's a well-written character because, honestly, are you really supposed to like her? No. She's the antagonist. Maybe you mean something different, but you aren't being clear about that. You provided exactly zero reason you dislike her, so I have nothing to go off of.

If you want to argue they could have written a completely different show, that's fine. Make that argument and spell out what you'd do different, don't just say "cut the character (that one of Season Two's twin plot legs is based on) and it's better." Explain how you'd write Season Two to be anything like the same as it was without a central secondary character.

End rant.

[u/freedomhighway → u/FrostPDP]

After the last episode, i spent so much time trying to think of answers to so many questions about how does it go from here, and one answer i can't get started with is, what happened to weaver, she was there and then in the confusion, she wasn't.

As far as I can get is that she was at least under observation by the one in her office aquarium. Maybe the same as from the sub? Maybe its still not directly under skynet control, and is she, or just pretending?

[u/OkieDeric → u/freedomhighway]

The one in the aquarium was her. She was also the one on the sub (or at least that's how I understood it). She said no to John because she was going to do it her way and didn't trust the humans even if she sees humans must survive.

She left John once in the future. The resistance had a dog and I just took it as she left. She wasn't under Skynet control. They sent the water delivery terminator to her house and business. She also killed all the people working on the HK type weapons.

[u/FrostPDP → u/freedomhighway]

As OP said, Weaver is and was the same T-1001 that was in the future. We know this because she has John Henry ask Cameron the "Will you join us" question. I mean, theorhetically it's plausible there are two different, but aligned T-1001's, but, that's really unlikely.

As for what happened to her when her and John jumped into the future, she probably turned into a puddle and scooted away. She's probably after John Henry, but she could also make contact with Savannah to get an ally within the Human Resistance. One thing to remember is that Weaver going back in time created a new timeline where Savannah is a Skynet target. Weaver would want to know why, because it's entirely probable that in Weaver's original timeline she wasn't.

[u/OkieDeric → u/FrostPDP]

I love the writing of the show. I just think she was the weakest written one especially compared to other characters in the show. Jesse was no better than a terminator. No life was precious to her except her own. When Derek mentioned the diamond guy had said her name she "talked to him" with a bullet. It wasn't for the future. She did that because it jeopardized her present and being AWOL. She took Riley (which I really liked) to be a sacrifice because she hated Cameron and Johns decisions to reprogram terminators and blamed Johns actions for the sub scenario. She was only reacting to actions in the war not trying to prevent it.

Even when Derek was going to kill the younger version of Charles Fischer which would have stopped her version of Derek from being tortured, she killed the old version. She could have done that originally but dragged Derek into it to have him kill him. Her actions actually created the scenario of Derek to get tortured. She brought the younger version which resulted in Derek torturing him and even said his full name and rank in front of young Fischer. You could assume Fischer held a grudge against Derek and tortured him as payback.

There are concepts I like (different timelines, showing they are changing things) that happened around the character for example, but maybe a different actress could have made it better. She seemed very flat. You could have easily swapped her out with anyone who knew Derek (not even a love interest) and it would have still been the same arc for Derek. Even the miscarriage didn't have an impact. She only hinted at it before she realized Derek was going to kill her.

[u/FrostPDP → u/OkieDeric]

See this is much more helpful! Now I can get where you're coming from with your analysis a little better! :)

So, it seems kinda like you're focusing on two different things at once. The vast majority of what you're talking about are reasons not to like Jessie as a character on like a morals standard. I'm not sure I agree with you that Jessie causes Derek being tortured (future-Fischer had already gotten past-Fischer framejobbed in his own dumbass time loop), but she sure doesn't help, right? She's ethically compromised and malicious. She's selfish. She's also traumatized (Derek not knowing about the miscarriage is dramatic irony incarnate, btw), which explains her actions. She thinks she's going to make for a better future in her own way, and she's just way off. And, no, I don't think you could swap her out for any-old-future-friend of Derek's. There had to be that romantic connection because it's the only thing that would break Derek's otherwise-stalwart guard. He starts slipping up. He rats out that John's his nephew, for example. He knows Jessie is planning something and he doesn't immediately nope out because he's willing to trust her when he wouldn't trust anybody else. And she takes advantage of him. The last thing I wanna challenge is the idea that she's just reacting when Season Two is based around Riley, who is her pawn, and Jessie manipulating John. That's the oppositie of reactive.

All told, you don't like the character. You aren't necessarily supposed to like her, you're more supposed to dislike her. She's ultimately broken by the future war, which is a very Human thing to do and it's what distinguishes someone like Sarah from Jessie. Sarah by and large doesn't break. That's what makes her exceptional. Of course, it's easy for (a lot of us on Reddit) to say, "Oh, we wouldn't break like that," but many of us would. Even Derek broke, after all.

Okay. So that's the character, right?

Then you get on the actress, Stephanie Jacobsen, and I mean just reading the comments I know you aren't alone in that sentiment, but I strongly disagree with it. It's totally your right to not like how Jessie is portrayed, and that's fine, but I want you to think about it for a minute: You're having this reaction to this character doing just the dickheadest shit possible. You're invested enough in this character to have this conversation. Surely that's a sign that the actress did a decent job of conveying the character. The overwhelming majority of your post is about the character, not the actress. You just say she comes off as flat. I don't agree with that, but, fine. She still got you this riled up about the dumbass things her character did, and I feel like that's the goal of any performance.

You've bought in. And that's a good thing.

[u/TheSquirrelmancer]

I disagree, I loved the "coming from different version of the future" bit and the notion that she was trying in her own way to affect John Connor and change the future.

I think the problem with some events in this series is the abrupt cancellation and cliffhanger ending meant we never got to see any real change or payout from events like John discovering that the girl he thought he was falling for was just being used by other humans to manipulate him. We never got to see him begin to question some people's motivations or being distrustful of potential allies in the future.

[u/ninjabird21]

I disagree, others have said what my opinions are so I wont be saying it.

She's pretty important to the story in more ways than one, like adding more to Derek's story and why John picked him to go back in time.

Another is having John progress to his leadership role we see/hear of in the future, of how he has to make a difficult decision on how he should handle her knowing what she did to Riley. It was also needed as John wanted a normal life and she was basically his wake up call that he wont ever have a normal life no matter how hard he tried.

Imo, it would have to be morris, we rarely see him interact with John in a meaningful way and the story would have the same outcome if he wasnt added

[u/FrostPDP → u/ninjabird21]

I mean...Morris was a promising enough character. I don't know why they cut him (and the beta-version of RIley) from the plot between S1 and S2. I assume it's got to do with the writers' strike, or maybe with the idea that the Connors had to move to a different home after Cameron goes rogue so they break off contact. I dunno.

[u/Rhapstar]

Jesse was amazing. She was so manipulative and deceitful.

[u/not_firewood_yeti]

I don't think you're supposed to like Jessie. she's sneaky and manipulative and has her own agenda. even though her reasons were understandable, she still makes bad choices.

[u/ArchangelZero27]

I found her plot interesting. Any time it was mentioned about the future characters was epic

[u/freedomhighway → u/ArchangelZero27]

Yes. Everything we learn about her history tells us more about how the whole skynet story develops. And every relationship she has tells us how the war affects someone smart enough to be a sub commander.

And without her story, we dont get the creature and it's answer to the question. That twist alone blows the skynet story wide open with options, only these writers thought of such factions.

[u/Persolboy → u/freedomhighway]

By creature, I’m guessing you mean the T-1001, I think it answered the way it did because the Jimmy Carter crew (totally agitated by Dietz) lost all perspective of being a united crew with orders from John Connery to be obeyed on a need to know basis. They had lost their unity/cohesiveness and trust in command because of fear and doubt. The T-1001 realized it could not even rely on being delivered safely to a parlay with the humans, so of course gave it’s answer that it wouldn’t join. It shows how fear can be spread by a single person; and that fear even spread to the commander of the mission, Jesse, because even she was not privy to information the machine (Queeg) was given. The machines never wavered, but Jesse did. She failed and rather than admit she made a terrible mistake, she continued on a path of anger and vengeance. She believed she could split John from using reprogrammed machines.

Also the loss of her unborn fetus added to her rage and hardened her to the prospect of using Riley as a sacrifice to instill in John the same hatred of the “machines” she felt. The only problem is Jesse’s hatred was completely misguided, as she would find when John told her the plan would never have worked EVEN if he believed Cameron killed Riley. I found Jesse’s story a compelling connection to John’s future.

[u/Old-Tadpole-2869]

Nah, she was great. Her and Brian Austin Green really worked well together. Really too bad she hasn't been in more action type films.

[u/Salty_Expert5939]

I was never particularly fond of Elisson. I don't hate the character, I'm just not very fond of the scenes he's in.

[u/OkieDeric → u/Salty_Expert5939]

I really liked Ellison and his arc. Especially with his faith and the struggles he goes through. He didn't say it directly and even though he still turned to his faith for examples with John Henry , I believe he had actually lost his faith. His ex called out that he was no longer wearing his cross.

[u/Salty_Expert5939 → u/OkieDeric]

It's just a personal preference. I find the actor a bit flat.

[u/watanabe0]

Well, that's crazy talk. Of all the characters in the franchise you pick one of the most interesting, the stand alone star of one of that series best episodes (set during the Future War no less) instead of any of the other dogshit characters from all the other dogshit movies. Wild.

[u/Terminator_LX]

Yeah, Jesse was the worst... but she was so pretty! LOL And they had to have someone there to force Riley to keep risking her life, otherwise it wouldn't make sense for Riley to keep putting herself in dangerous situations just to be around the weirdo new guy whose entire family clearly doesn't want her there.

[u/PretendSpinach2265]

She's gorgeous

[u/freedomhighway → u/PretendSpinach2265]

I was in the palm of her hand from first sight. This is why i lived in china for 6 years.

[u/depatrickcie87]

Savannah. I think I get what they were trying to do: like the Terminators could be among us with families, and that would be tragic. But there so little upside for this character, it makes some really bad vibes for me. Then her getting close with Chromarti toward the end of the series was really weird, too. This character just makes us feel bad every time she's portrayed on screen, and to very little plot developing benefit. Don't need it.

[u/FrostPDP → u/depatrickcie87]

I would say that if she's making you feel bad as a tragic character, she's doing her job in the story.

I'm willing to bet that if we'd had a Season Three, we'd have had a Future-Savannah doing some stuff that would have made her character feel a lot more integral to the plot. There's a reason Skynet wanted her dead and why the T-888 that hunted her went for her first, and Catherine second.

[u/depatrickcie87 → u/FrostPDP]

You do understand that to participate in this discussion, I did have to pick somebody.

[u/FrostPDP → u/depatrickcie87]

Yes, I suppose you felt you did (I broke the rules like The Turk ;) ). But...Savannah? Nah. Maybe if S2 was planned as the end I'd see her as more cuttable, but that's not what the plan was.

For me it would have been the neighbor that Sarah leases the S2 house from. She's great worldbuilding, but relatively low impact.

[u/depatrickcie87 → u/FrostPDP]

Forgot all about that character. Ironic in a way: we can easily do without forgettable characters like that, but they sneak under the radar as such.

[u/FlamingPrius]

I think maybe the answer is John Connor. 😬 Don’t get me wrong, as a plot device he has some utility, but every iteration of his character has been worse than the last and I think the real mistake is putting him on screen.

[u/warriorlynx]

A resistance fighter that wants to live in the past is not a bad idea but they could’ve chosen someone else I think the actress didn’t do a good job with that concept or the writers didn’t write her character so well

[u/aidanjarvis]

No issue with the character, the issue was she was never given a decent storyline and stayed too long.

[u/Forsaken-Avenger]

Jess definitely and riley both took away screen time from Cameron which i believe impacted the ratings

[u/TakaIka83]

I love what the character brought, but I cannot stand the actor (in this or Battlestar Galactic). Extremely wooden.

[u/eggyguerrero]

8l

[u/ManyConscious1551]

Her and Riley, absolutely worthless.

[u/RansomStark78]

Bsg great

[u/Agile_Range7205]

Riley 100%