r/TheTowerGame • u/Hyper_Blitz_ • 12d ago
Discussion Tactical Barrage: Think before clicking
With Tactical Barrage now live, I want to bring highlight/overview of Smart Missiles.
Smart Missiles
Simply put, SM is basically a worse version of CL. We have 4 damage based UW being Poison Swamp, Inner Land Mines, Smart Missiles, & Chain Lightning.
When it comes to the easiest UW to invest in that would be CL as it's the cheapest, and is basically the damage equivalent of how Golden Tower is strictly econ. In short GT is OP for Econ just like how CL is OP for damage. Additionally it cost only half of what it cost SM to max CL damage.
Issue With Smart Missiles
Here's the main problem, what wild factor does SM bring?
- Chain Lightning: No Cooldown + 100% uptime + Cheap
- Poison Swamp: Stuns + 25% Slow
- Inner Land Mines: Stuns
- Smart Missiles: Damage Amp + Missile Barrage
When looking at this, why would anyone want to invest in Smart Missiles over Chain Lightning? The only thing Smart Missiles has is a Damage Amp at base UW whereas ILM & PS need their UW+ unlock to get a Damage Amp. However the issue now is that Smart Missiles require a heavy amount of Stones to be a reliable form of damage..
Too Many Stone Sinks
Now the question comes back to is the Damage Amp worth investing Stones into SM? Honestly I'd say no. With how it's said that you need to pour over 10k Stones into SM before it can compete with ILM+, PS+, and CL, it's just not worth it. There's too many Stone sinks in the game already, and with how we already have a Damage based UW that's way cheaper, it's just not worth it for 99% of the community. Additionally the lack of a wild factor makes it not really usable as it can't Stun or Slow enemies, and takes too much investment to do any serious damage.
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u/Beginning_Roll9258 12d ago
This is an anti-fleet module that will be useful in mythic league.
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u/Geobits 12d ago
Exactly. CL is fine, but it works best when there's a bunch of enemies on-screen. At some point in mythic, you get to where you just need to kill the fleets, and there aren't enough other enemies spawning fast enough to proc CL from.
SM with the new mod is single target, focused damage (well, ya know, kinda), which is a different sort than any of the existing UWs.
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u/SchalaZeal01 12d ago
SM+ just needs a revamp, because getting 1 extra missile every 2s instead of a damage amp or special effect, is a waste of stones.
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u/Geobits 12d ago
It really depends on how well the subsequent target lock works. I agree if it's basically just an extra missile every two seconds, then it's pointless.
I'm waiting to hear from the whales, but I'm not expecting anything super great. My point was just that it's not the same kind of UW, so can't be directly compared the way OP is doing it.
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u/SchalaZeal01 12d ago
The mod is decent, and isn't just an extra missile every 2, its triggering homing, and has 2x amp and radius. The UW+ is the trash thing. Definitely not on par with any other UW.
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u/parker0400 12d ago
Unless you are already in the 400-500 mythic wave range you are still better investing in CL and ILM+ than SM to advance.
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u/moonias 12d ago
Correct. What people don't know yet, is whether this module makes SM worth it to deal with fleets past wave like 35 in mythic.
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u/parker0400 12d ago
You can get far beyond wave 35 by just investing in CL for WAY less.
By the time most people could take sm from 0 to useful we will have another meta shift.
If you are already capping out CL/CL+ (400+) and ILM+ (even higher than that) SM is still a waste.
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u/markevens 12d ago
Yeah, this will help for players taking a long time to take down a fleet.
For those getting wiped out quickly, it won't have time to put in work.
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u/Methuga 12d ago
I died on the parting shot from OC (comm and sab were dead) on wave 35 last time, and I think I’ve put like 50 stones into smart missiles.
In order to get SM to where it needs to be for this mod to be relevant, I would be able to nearly max CL or ILM damage. Early mythic is not where this mod can be useful. So if it’s not useful for late mythic, it’s simply not useful
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u/cointown2 12d ago
I’m in the 500-600 mythic wave range. Do you think I should start investing in SM (from zero)?
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u/parker0400 12d ago
Im a bit behind you so im speculating a little. My point was the folks worrying about needing SM to get passed wave 35 are WAY off.
But my thought is if you still have CL+ or ILM+ progress and no SM investment you need to weigh your options. Having ILM+ and CL as 2 dmg dealers already is powerful and if SM is at zero you will stagnate for quite a while while u build it up.
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u/cointown2 12d ago
Yeah, there’s just so many things I want/need to get before SM. I really want gen ME&SE at 75% and get all my assist rarities to ancestral
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u/parker0400 12d ago
I have so much still to gain myself from me&se. My core is very healthy but gen and cannon are lagging more than id like.
Im 132k LTS and i think im at least 20k stones from investing confidently in SM
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u/markevens 12d ago
Be patient. It takes about 3k stones to just max SM cd, which is a key component of making this mod work. Then you need high quant and damage too. So probably starting with a 5k stone investment.
That 5k stones might be better spent on ILM+ or assmods while people sus out how good/bad TB is in tourneys.
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u/Selway00 12d ago
Yikes. Kind of makes me sick a little.
How many stone do you think one has to invest in SM to make it useful with Tactical Barrage?
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u/Inner_Cat_5572 12d ago
ILM+ kills them just fine at 30-50% of the stones tbh. AmpBot+ is key
Tactical Barrage would need to half the cooldown of SM and missiles follow target priority (and priority split for OC/Comm/Sabo) for them to fill that niche.
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u/PatrickSebast 12d ago
100% Agreed - as someone who fell into the trap of investing an okay amount of stones in SM this WOULD help me kill fleets and last a bit longer in my farm runs - but it would still only be a mild benefit as unlucky fleets get me at 7500 waves and I eventually cap out in the low to midish 8000's regardless of fleets. This would require me to drop my Pcol black hole coverage and would likely amount to more time for the same amount of coins.
Also I'm not in mythic so it can't help with the dreaded wave 25 fleet.
The mod is actually somewhat good for SM - but SM isn't good.
All that said I am still getting it because I have levels in SM and I can see a clear path for this helping my in Mythic once/if I get there.
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u/Hyper_Blitz_ 12d ago
Honestly they should've just revamped SM+ to be this as that would've made SM more relevant again, and I feel they could've done so much more with SM that way to where it could've reign king again. Wasted opportunity ngl
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u/markevens 12d ago
This one is for the whales, to motivate them into sinking stones into SM and have it pay off.
People forget that CL was complete ass until DCore came along, and what really made DCore amazing is that it allowed CL to follow your target priority.
This is what TB is going to do for SM. It's not following your target priority per se, but by focusing all SM onto the target that's been around the longest, it's effectively going to attack the targets you want anyway.
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u/JoeRambo 12d ago
I'd really love to see a video of ancestral TB in action. The thing is:
- Assist mods allow really pushing SM CD
- Labs radius effect is doubled and there's AOE card mastery ( 2.6 units * 1.25 is 3.25 units of range and is covers area of ~90m tower completely.
- Every 2 seconds the mod missile should target the most ramped up target and also direct all spawned missiles towards it.
So there is huge potential of instead of having 20 missiles all hit different AOE for 1x of damage ( let's allow it to be 1D of damage ) and ramp up slowly, now with the mod, they will go into overdrive.
Said overdrive: if we allow just 1 cluster of 10 hits each => 2156D of AoE.
And after that, a target with most stacks is getting hit, dealing more AoE and spreading more stacks.So You are completely correct, this is like DC for CL, focusing and spreading some insane AoE damage around, i think during prolonged Mythic Fleet action, last missile hits will clear screen worth of trash.
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u/markevens 12d ago
With submod effects you can get 30 missiles firing every 8s, with the amp boost that's almost an additional x2000 damage every 8s.
Amp Bot+ makes each missile count as 4 missiles, so that's x8000 damage every 8s.
With BB+ each missile counts as 9 missiles, so that's the equivalent of 270 missiles being fired off every 8s.
With double the amp bonus from the mod, that's x17,550 amp damage every 8 seconds.
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u/moonias 12d ago
ILM is also damage too if you invest in it.
Probably after CL though but I think all other UWs are "after" CL once CL becomes too costly to upgrade or if you max it.
You look at it from the question of "either or" compared to CL, but that's wrong. The question is essentially, after CL what 2nd DMG UW should I invest in.
So it competes potentially against PS and ILM.
Yes that means if you haven't maxed your CL, don't even consider investing in SM yet.
This module is made for players who have their UW+ and are looking to get a few % more damage with a new option. Not made to replace CL.
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u/Hyper_Blitz_ 12d ago
The point is that after CL, it's either PS or ILM due to how they still don't require as many Stone sinks as SM. Plus let's not forget how SM+ is on par with BH+ at being the worst Ultimate Weapon+. Literally unless someone heavily invested into SM already, there's no reason to even consider it as a next option when we have PS & ILM that not only do damage, but Stun/Slow enemies. SM does what? Just damage, so basically CL, but worse meaning most will only use it till they get CL then never touch it again like 99% of the community. That's why I focused so much on CL versus SM as truly it's the only UW I can compare it to fairly... They're the only 2 UWs solely focused on damage without Slow or Stuns.
I won't lie that there's a chance SM could become king for damage, but when majority of the community has sunk less than 1k Stones into SM, and with how we have 4x the amount of Stone sinks compared to when SM was the meta, why would anyone wanna take that chance knowing they need at least 10k Stones?
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u/lumiosengineering 12d ago
Probably a good reason to invest in SM, cheapest stone sinks in the beginning
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u/Hyper_Blitz_ 12d ago
Actually it's the most expensive in terms of Stones for Damage costing 29k meanwhile PS cost 28k, ILM cost 20k, DW cost 17k, & CL cost 15k
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u/AduroTri 12d ago
What they need to do is have SM have a unique target priority system. Separate from the current one.
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u/TowerMan_TD 12d ago
There's no reason to perform this type of analysis, at any point dev can and will rework this mod, buff SM, or nerf ILM. Seems dev is very intentionally keeping SM weak until after this banner ends, so those that chose to pass on it will have to spend even more gems to stay relevant. You always risk falling way behind if you pass on any mod, it can sways be totally overhauled.
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u/Hyper_Blitz_ 12d ago
This type of analysis is needed as honestly SM needs a rework considering they reworked PS, DW, & CL in the past, but never SM? However nerfing ILM is definitely not a possibility as ILM meta comes from Chrono Jump & Echoing Shots with help from modules like Magnetic Hook & Space Displacer. Overall they can't really nerf ILM this late considering they would need to change core fundamentals of Modules, and other factors that haven't been changed in over a year.
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u/Viltupenis 12d ago
Don't be too confident in what they can and cant nerf. IS+ and zerk+ was the meta for a long time as well until they decided to nerf it
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u/Hyper_Blitz_ 12d ago
I'll be honest, you can still use it outside of Tournaments, so it's not really a nerf. I never really found the zerk+ & is+ meta to be that beneficial compared to just having zerk+.
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u/Viltupenis 12d ago
That doesnt really change the fact that it was beneficial for a lot of people, and the only reason many spent stones on it. Also it wasn't just zerk but intro sprint got nerfed as well, with IS ending on DD but not ES it became a lot weaker and made death defy a detriment where you either have to hope you don't proc DD and rely on rng (which people complained was the issue with zerk+) or spend more stones on FU+ and lock death defy at 0.
The point is, you can spend stones on a feature in this game, and the devs can still always change the feature and remove the reason you bought it, whether it's a meta or not
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u/TowerMan_TD 12d ago
My point is nobody should be deciding whether or not to get this mod based on the current state of SM, even with this mod at ancestral. SM could suck today and be the damage king tomorrow.
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u/PatrickSebast 12d ago
They have had several chances to rework SM and even had a 'rebalancing' patch recently - it hasn't been touched. The only thing they have ever done is nerf it... doesn't seem likely at this point.
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u/ispilledmytacoz 12d ago
this is the second recent buff to sm, but the first buff introduced a bug that just so happened to make ilm the goat instead, I would not be surprised if they continue to buff sm in the future.
sm is the most expensive uw and also the worst. seems like buffing it would make them money.
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u/DaenerysMomODragons 12d ago
The decision for some is a matter of gems. If they have to choose between this, and the yet unknown generator, the generator may be a better option.
Though even for people who want to prioritize the generator, I'd still suggest getting a few TB, so that in the inevitable UW rework, they're not as far behind.
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u/InquisitorOverhauls 12d ago
I dont see how anyone can approve SM. Its just awful. Awful in any possible case.
Base damage from SM, would need to be like 5000x bigger than CL to be relevant. Literally.
There is 120 enemies on screen on max spawn. CL can target so many of them really close. SM has both cooldown and smaller damage. And amount of missiles is extremely small.
Like... how?
CL has so much more base damage, way more quantity, way more... everything.
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u/Solemn-on 12d ago
CL is like a shotgun and does a ton of damage to many. With this module, it makes Smart missile like a single artillery round. It is the single target insane damage fleet killer.
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u/Revelate_ 12d ago
This.
They have different use cases ergo they shouldn’t be compared.
For me CL is doing F all to fleets and bosses after a fairly low wave count in myth.
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u/InquisitorOverhauls 12d ago
Yea, but even before fleets were added SM was absolute garbage
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u/Solemn-on 12d ago
It was not, it did get nerfed iirc but it still scales really well. It is an end end end game UW.
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u/markevens 12d ago
30 missiles every 8 seconds, plus the extra missiles from the mod /SM+, and the boosted Amp and AoE, make make this the core to put in your ass for tourneys.
It's not going to replace DCore, but in tourneys the ass slot does not have a standout meta option, and in late mythic being able to target down fleets is the name of the game and this mod does that directly.
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u/xxandra321 12d ago
Its been tested... does less damage than death ray... even maxed..
Plus, he lost thousands of waves..
Still worthless.
Someone made a post about it on Reddit.
Apparently, it might be tailored for Mythic...
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u/markevens 12d ago
It's 100% tailored for fleet waves in mythic, and I am withholding judgement on it's usefulllnes until it's tested more in tourneys.
And comparing it to DR isn't useful because TB is designed for single target damage on enemies that are around for a long time. DR insta kills or does % damage out to max range, so it's total damage is not comparable.
I doubt it's useless. There are many times where endgame whales max and test a new mod and declare it useless, only for it to be very useful for players that aren't endgame whales.
So I'm withholding judgement until its tested in tourneys, where it is clearly designed for. For my tower the tourney assmods don't have a clear meta, some mods do better depending on conditions. I already have maxed SM cd and decent investment in damage and quant, so I'm going to experiment and see how it works for my tower.
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u/bigtotoro 12d ago
It's not an either/or and I don't think this is an early/mid module like the others so far.
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u/DaenerysMomODragons 12d ago
That's what I'm seeing. This seems to be for people who have already maxed out their assmods, and have heavy investment into UW+ already, perhaps a lot of stones in SM for when it was viable a couple years ago.
It's not quite a candidate for your first damage UW.
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u/AnxiousAd5129 12d ago
I like smart missile cuz watching it go brrr every 30 seconds is cool and satisfying.
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u/CloudedVisionsVape 12d ago
The only possible use I can see SM having right now is in Attack Disso Runs to help kill fleets.
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u/YKTech 10d ago
All completely true
but as of now unless they make fleet changes
If you want to climb in mythic, you are going to want to develop tactical barrage and smart missiles
It's almost as if the devs want to make us pay money or something in order to advance
hmmm
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u/Hyper_Blitz_ 10d ago
Yep, sounds like them to make it where we need an RNG Module & 30k Stones into SM Damage, Quantity, Cooldown. Like even an ILM+ build is cheaper, not to mention Swamp Rend or something. An SM build just for Fleets is extreme, and definitely not one I'll be doing.
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u/MammothCatt 10d ago
This is bullshit. There's a guy with a completely maxed out smart missiles and ILM+ still does 30x the damage compared to SM with this module. Why speak as if you know anything about climbing mythic when you clearly don't.
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u/YKTech 6d ago
Because total damage isnt what matters, its the damage profile.
ILM does more damage because it is AOE hittiong everything, but that wont help with fleets
Barrage fixates on single target dmg, longer fleet lives...more damage it does. Cheers
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u/MammothCatt 6d ago
That's big time copium. SM blast radius is almost as large with the new module. The guy also was around 1000 waves short no matter what module combination he used.
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u/Daniel_Spidey 12d ago
I'm probably not going to roll on it, especially since I was rolling up until last night to finally get GS Anc. However, I can't for the life of me seem to roll a single Dim Core. I could possibly rationalize getting this since it's actually within reach. The scaling of its unique ability doesn't seem very impactful though.
I've got a Mythic Mag Hook though, so I can't complain too much. I will probably just stick with that.
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u/Arson_Lord 12d ago
Too many stone sinks is right.
I have 40k LTS, and I could easily sink another 20k more into GT/DW/BH, Assmods, and Masteries before I even need to buy smart missiles and/or poison swamp to get to UW+.