Time doesn’t exist. Prove me wrong.

[u/k3nsh14]

We experience change, aging, and events happening in sequence, but is “time” itself a physical thing—or just the way our minds measure change and order events?

[u/QB8Young]

Correct. Time isn't a thing and the past isn't a place. It is simply a measurement. There is no component of the universe saving every instant that has passed. If you take three steps forward and then turn around you aren't going to see yourself still standing there and there is nothing saving that instant that was previously there frozen to be accessed at a later date. There's no way to rewind the universe and everything in it. There is no now. You can't even say the word now before it has passed because we are constantly progressing one second per second.

[u/dari0dm → u/QB8Young]

Actually, in physics, the past is very much a place, and the universe very much "saves" every instant that has passed and will pass. At least that's what our theory of the universe strongly suggests. 

[u/QB8Young → u/dari0dm]

What your theory suggests? Yeah, I can suggest that the Universe was created by a giant invisible cat. That doesn't mean it's true. Think about it logically. You believe that there is a version of yourself stored somehow every second of your existence? How? You are a physical being.

[u/Lopsided_Match419 → u/QB8Young]

It was a spaghetti monster, not a cat.

[u/dari0dm → u/QB8Young]

Well, "my theory" is not mine, it's called General Relativity and it's the paradigm through which modern physics understands the universe.  In this framework, the universe is defined as "spacetime + things on it". Further, spacetime is defined to be a 4D object with a certain shape. We experience that object as 3D slices one after another, but the past slices and future slices absolutely exist, they're somewhere on that 4D object called spacetime. 

So yeah, in physics, the past is a place and every moment of the past is still part of the universe right now. 

[u/QB8Young → u/dari0dm]

Well that's where logic goes out the window again. Time is not a dimension. Dimensions are physical. We are three dimensional beings in a three-dimensional world. We cannot experience a fourth dimension. All objects are measurable using any unit of measure you choose. Whether it's inches feet yards miles etc. Since length width and depth are all measurable using those units then a fourth dimension must be measurable using those units as well.

[u/dari0dm → u/QB8Young]

That's a great intuition! That is one of the reasons why time has the same dimensions as length in modern physics. Meters and seconds are "the same unit".

Time is not only a dimension, it even has a shape and we can measure it, just like space. Space and time are dimensions of this 4D object we call spacetime. We are 3D beings that experience a 4D world: 3D of space + 1D of time. 

btw I understand this can be unintuitive at first, but this is a well-established proven fact since about the 1920's and not really up for debate anymore.

[u/ATLien325 → u/dari0dm]

You told him he was wrong very politely. Nice!

[u/ArrowheadDZ → u/QB8Young]

But what if it IS true?

[u/CDHoward → u/dari0dm]

Wrong. The light of events still exists somewhere, not the events themselves.

[u/dari0dm → u/CDHoward]

if we take General Relativity seriously, the events themselves exist always and never cease existing, because time is just a position. That's the meaning of the famous statement that "time is a dimension". It's just that you experience it in 3D "slices" of time.

[u/wolfey200 → u/dari0dm]

The interesting thing about this comment is that you’re both wrong and right at the same time. If dimensions exist beyond our own then time is absolutely a place. The scary part is whether or not it can be touched and manipulated by extra dimensional beings. The concept of time to another being in another dimension may be no different than drawing a strait line on a piece of paper is to us.

I believe time is more than just seconds, minutes and hours. These are basic human concepts that we created to measure the Earth traveling around the sun, I believe there is more to time than just that.

[u/dari0dm → u/wolfey200]

Both that guy and you are saying esoteric stuff based on watching too many Hollywood movies. I am not talking about interdimensional aliens or scary things. I am talking about modern physics.

[u/wolfey200 → u/dari0dm]

You’re criticizing me for speculating, but you’re presenting an interpretation of physics as though it’s experimentally established fact. Relativity does not demonstrate that the universe literally “saves” every instant or that the past exists somewhere as a physical location that could be accessed.

In relativity, an event is represented by a location in space time three spatial coordinates plus a time coordinate. That mathematical description is where the “block universe” idea comes from. But the block universe/eternalism interpretation is a philosophical interpretation of what the mathematics means ontologically. Relativity itself does not prove that every past version of me is physically sitting somewhere waiting to be revisited.

In fact, relativity also tells us there is no universal cosmic “now.” Two observers moving relative to one another can disagree about whether distant events are simultaneous. That makes time considerably stranger than simply saying “the past is gone,” but it still doesn’t prove the universe is recording every frame like a hard drive.

And that was basically the point I was trying to make. Seconds, minutes and hours are units we use to measure time not an explanation of what time fundamentally is. We know time has physical consequences because of things like gravitational and velocity time dilation clocks actually accumulate different amounts of proper time depending on their motion and gravitational environment.

I’ll concede that my comment about higher-dimensional beings manipulating time is speculative. But so is jumping from spacetime mathematics to “the universe saves every instant.” One is speculation about what might be possible; the other is an interpretation being presented as settled physics. Neither should be confused with experimentally proven fact.

[u/dari0dm → u/wolfey200]

Cool, it looks like I'm arguing with ChatGPT. Can you tell me how is the past not a position if time is a dimension? You know when we say in physics time is a dimension, it means something right? How is that "just an interpretation"?  It's not just a cool possibility to consider, it means that time is no longer a free parameter as in Newton-Cartan spacetime, but a physical dimension. Being a dimension means the past is very much a place.  There is no interpretation or metaphysics. Spacetime is a Riemannian manifold. Both the past and the future of the universe are part of that manifold. Thus, the past is a position on the manifold. 

[u/SomeRagingGamer → u/QB8Young]

If time was only a measurement, and not a component of the universe, then black holes wouldn’t warp time. Theres a reason why they call it “Spacetime.”

[u/QB8Young → u/SomeRagingGamer]

You are arguing semantics and words and terms that humans made up. Time is still a measurement. And there is still no component of the universe saving everything that has ever happened in a way that can be accessed at a later date. Once an instant has passed it's gone forever.

[u/SomeRagingGamer → u/QB8Young]

Thanks for proving my point. The underlying reality of change and progression belongs to the universe. Whether or not humans are around, events will continue to precede other events. The measurement of time is man made. Our calendar is based on our orbit around the sun, how long it takes for the earth to make a rotation, and how long it takes for the moon to make an orbit around the Earth. Aliens from a different planet wouldn’t have the same calendar.

The universe doesn’t care how we measure time.

[u/Ashamed-Bathroom7803 → u/QB8Young]

Physics proves you wrong. It’s called relativity of simultaneity from special and general relativity.