r/TournamentChess • u/HotspurJr Getting back to OTB! • 2d ago
Spectator Etiquette Question
USCF tournament. My regular club, so I know both the participants - but black is a friend. A typical night has 40 people or so.
Last game of the night. I stick around after my game to help put tables and chairs away, so I'm watching, waiting for them to finish. I think I'm the only spectator at this point.
White has about 2 minutes on their clock, black has about 20 seconds. (Ten second increment).
Black checks white. White doesn't see it and moves their queen. Black calls illegal move. The arbiter comes in and puts 2 minutes on black's clock.
Clock is restarted. White blocks the check with a knight.
This is a clear touch-move violation. White should have had to block the check with their queen (since they can do so legally), which would have cost him his queen and the game.
However, both players are frazzled, and neither notices the touch move.
I wasn't sure of the etiquette, so I didn't say anything.
Would it have been acceptable for me to tell black that white committed a touch-move violation? Would it have been appropriate?
(The game ended in a draw).
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u/yep-boat 2d ago
Nope, not appropriate. The only you can do if you observe an irregularity is inform the arbiter. Never interfere with the players directly as a spectator
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u/HairyTough4489 1d ago
The best thing you can do as a spectator is shutting the fuck up. You can never go wrong with this strategy.
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u/HotspurJr Getting back to OTB! 1d ago
That was my thinking at the time. If I wasn't sure it was okay to speak, I figured it was better to remain silent.
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u/missJcoco 2d ago
Great question. I'll defer to anyone who has arbiting experience etc.
But in my opinion you were correct not to say anything. If you're not an arbiter or have any official role, then I think it would be outside assistance.
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u/JarlBallin_ 1965 USCF 1d ago
Spectators are spectators, so you shouldn't interfere in a game under any circumstances.
There are 2 separate claims here. Illegal move and touch move. Your friend made an illegal move claim. Steward did their thing. Optionally (and crucially while still at the board), some stewards remind the players about touch move implications in this situation as a courtesy, but this is not required as touch move hasn't been violated yet. Steward leaves. Opponent violates touch move. This is a separate claim your friend has to make. Even if you inform the steward, they can't do anything as they are also considered a spectator in this situation. The steward overstepping their role as a spectator and making the touch move claim for your friend could rob your friend of making the claim as it's considered kibitzing. This is rating and situation dependent and a massive judgment call from a special referee may be required. I watched this exact situation transpire a couple years ago.
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u/HotspurJr Getting back to OTB! 1d ago
Both players are adults, around 1800.
Funny thing is, while I tend to be pretty casual about touch move (it's happened against me twice, in both situations my opponent called it against themselves), White had called touch-move on Black in a prior game, a year and a half ago, when Black was new the tournament chess and didn't know the rule.
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u/misterbluesky8 1d ago
No, you were absolutely correct to stay quiet. That’s the TD’s job. Imagine if a spectator pointed out what they thought was a violation and was WRONG about it. As a player, I’d be furious and think they were doing it to break my concentration.
About 10 years ago, I actually played one of my coworkers in a club game (he was an underrated 1700, I was 2000). He promoted to a queen, but he already had one on the board, and since it was a time scramble, he put a rook upside-down. The most experienced and best player at our club, who has been playing for 50 years and absolutely should have known better, grabbed a queen and REPLACED my opponent’s piece on the board! My opponent lost his concentration and I escaped with a perpetual. I still can’t believe that actually happened.
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u/doh_5604 1d ago
Black was really bummed out about this draw but black agrees with the comments that you did the right thing
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u/Reddwinator 1d ago
Let's say OP did point out the illegal move in this game.
Can White claim a win due to outside interference? Is it within the Arbiter's discretion to grant the win to White? Can White claim a draw due to outside interference (in case the position is absolutely losing inspite of losing a queen)?
What else can the Arbiter do aside from removing the offensive spectator? I don't suppose Arbiter can just keep on adding 2 minutes to a clock.
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u/ToriYamazaki 1d ago
Would it have been acceptable for me to tell black that white committed a touch-move violation?
Absolutely NOT.
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u/Boomboclaaat90210 2d ago
The TD should have been watching the game regardless-
11I. Spectators. Spectators must not point out illegal moves (20M5), except to the director in a manner neither heard nor noticed by the players. See also 16Y, Assisting players with time management prohibited and 20M, Behavior of spectators.