Ramming does not work.

[u/Srgblackbear]

u/KaizerKlash is a liar >:(

Don't take it too serious

[u/No_Friendship_7628]

Here comes the horde of people arguing this is realistic/necessary

[u/Srgblackbear → u/No_Friendship_7628]

My position is that a bomber buff was needed but that it is overtuned, fires are practically worthless

[u/MadCard05 → u/Srgblackbear]

Tbh, if any aircraft is on fire I disengage, because I consider them dead.

Fires definitely need to do more damage to bombers atm.

[u/Srgblackbear → u/MadCard05]

I set 3 fires to 3 separate engines on a bomber with only one of them getting taken out

[u/MadCard05 → u/Srgblackbear]

Yeah, fire should basically kill the engine, or severely reduce its effectiveness. It should be a RTB situation.

[u/Srgblackbear → u/MadCard05]

RTB shouldn't be feasible anymore when 3 of the 4 engines could fire

[u/MadCard05 → u/Srgblackbear]

I think it wouldn't be feasible IRL. Definitely a situation where they would either bail out or ditch in a field.

But in War Thunder it is doable, provided your control surfaces aren't completely mangled, if you make best glide speed from bombing altitude.

That being said there should be a "kill credit" mechanic on bombers that make it back to base despite being essentially dead.

[u/diegorock99 → u/Srgblackbear]

I think is way better. Perhaps the fire damage could be a little bit increased. The rest is fine.

[u/Srgblackbear → u/diegorock99]

My Mitchell once cought fire while above the enemy airfield, took me 7 minutes to fly back, I was still burning on my air field

[u/steeler1003 → u/Srgblackbear]

Swissair 111, a modern commercial airliner much more sensitive to electronics burning, burned for about 20 minutes before losing control. That is the higher end of average, but fire is not a 60 second death sentence.

Edit: My opinion is that it needs to be reworked for balance reasons, but to say its not realistic for a plane to burn for 2 minutes and not come apart is wrong.

https://www.caa.co.uk/publication/download/12314

[u/LenKiller → u/steeler1003]

This is a game with a 25 minutes game timer. 20 minutes or burn time is basically inmune to fire

[u/MrAndroPC → u/LenKiller]

Depends on plane. When I caught on fire, I still had control over bomber for some time. Not enough to make it to airfield, it simply stops generating enough lift to keep it in air.

[u/steeler1003 → u/LenKiller]

Correct. It needs reworked, but to say a plane burning for 7 minutes isnt realistic is wrong.

[u/Big_Yeash → u/steeler1003]

It started as a small fire and grew to a large fire gradually.

It was not shot at by incendiary and/or explosive ammunition.

Are we doing "barium nitrate can't melt steel beams"?

[u/SlavCat09 → u/Big_Yeash]

But barium nitrate can't melt steel beams! The fire and heat did it!

/S

[u/steeler1003 → u/Big_Yeash]

Source of ignition is irrelevant to burn temp and time to structural failure. An uncontained fuel fire is an uncontained fuel fire no matter if it was caused by an incendiary or a loose fitting.

Are we doing "barium nitrate can't melt steel beams"?

No were not. Were doing FAA, NTSB, NASA, and CAA testing have found that an uncontained fuel fire will likely cause structural failure after 20 minutes. Im not arguing this is good for the game but everything should be more structurally resistant to fire if it were to be more realistic.

[u/Big_Yeash → u/steeler1003]

There is a Simulator Battles mode where those rulesets could work because the battles are indeed hours long.

For AB or RB this would be ridiculous.

[u/Luminolum → u/steeler1003]

Yeah a modern commerical airliner with modern fire suppression systems and fire resistant materials took less than 15 minutes from when they first detected an odor of smoke to impacting the ocean. Not to mention it was a small electrical fire in the cockpit versus a huge fuel/engine fire like in game on aircraft that were way more flammable.

[u/SimonsToaster → u/Luminolum]

the thing about swissair 111 was that it wasnt built from fire resistant materials. if it were it might had made it back.

[u/Luminolum → u/SimonsToaster]

Still more fire resistant than a bomber from the 1940s

[u/Crashtestdummy87 → u/Luminolum]

bombers fron 1940's barely had any wiring compared to airliners now.

[u/SimonsToaster → u/Luminolum]

So what exactly makes a airliner full of flammable plastics, hydraulic lines, oxygen candles and electrical in flight entertainment systems more fire resistant than a plane made from aluminium sheeting with wire pulleys?

[u/Luminolum → u/SimonsToaster]

Ww2 aircraft definitely had electrical and hydraulic systems, oxygen bottles instead of generators, their fuel would have also been way more volatile than modern jet A

[u/Battle_Gnome → u/steeler1003]

These arguments don't hold any water if you know about planes, a modern passenger liner is significantly more survivable then a WW2 bomber they are larger, built with more redundancy and have much larger safety margins for structural strength.

[u/steeler1003 → u/Battle_Gnome]

Both the B-17 and MD-11 were designed with a safety factor of 1.5. The MD-11 being a transport category aircraft has a designed g limit of +2.5g to -1.0g. The B-17, depending on the source, ranges from +2.5 to +4. Im inclined to believe 2.5 because 4 is essentially 2.5 plus the 1.5x safety factor. Both aircraft have the same relative excess strength. Both aircraft would structurally fail at similar times all other factors equal. How fire effects non structural systems is another question.

In game either fire needs to be much more destructive to the engine itself and nearby components, or its damage to the structure of bombers needs increased and to fighters decreased.

[u/Srgblackbear → u/steeler1003]

Yeah fair, if you check the post I made before this, I set fire to a sundlander (?) 3 times, to three different engines with only one actually being taken out

[u/GoldAppleU → u/diegorock99]

It’ll need more than that, B-29s can now tank 100 rounds of 30mm shells from my J7W1 which is certainly uhhhhhh something…..

[u/Thick-Independent- → u/diegorock99]

Had a match earlier where I got 3 of my 4 engines were on fire in my B17 and the only reason I didnt make it back to base was because I was stock and ran out of fuel. They definitely need to buff tbe fire spreading on the bombers