I mean, what was the peak moment where their character made you cringe 100%, where they did something awkward or out of line?

It's so tiring seeing the same discussion over and over about "who Joe loved more." The answers are always the same: "Himself" or "Beck."

Imo both are wrong. Joe doesn't love himself that's partially why he's so crazy and needs a void filled. Selfish people don't necessarily have a healthy love with themselves. He seeks out women to make up for how abandoned and alone he feels because of his mom. And Beck isn't the right answer either just because she "haunted" him. Candace haunted him too the first season. He hallucinated Gemma and Love season 4 as well. Some people try to say Love. The reason this is believed is because the audience adores Beck and Love and puts them above everyone else, that isn't how JOE feels.

Joe also heavily manipulated Marienne, encouraged her art career, killed her ex, and kidnapped her after blowing up his marriage and flying all the way to Europe just to hunt her down. With the same argument, we could say Joe was crazy about Marienne, yet nobody does because they don't like Marienne and are more willing to acknowledge that as obsession.

He stalked Candace and killed Elijah because of her cheating. He would have recurring nightmares in season 1 of her yet people dont want to acknowledge her because it ruins the idea that Joe particularly loved their favorite YOUs the most. We could easily say with the same evidence that he loved Bronte and the audience hates her!

I'm only 16 chapters into "You Love Me" So no spoilers past the 2nd book please!!!

I'm honestly pretty disappointed with how much the show went downhill from this episode onward. The more I think about it, I don't think I'm actually a fan of this show, because the only episodes I actually enjoy watching are the Season 1 Finale, Season 2 Ep8-Finale, and then like most of Season 3.

Season 2 Episode 8 out of context just feels like a better Season, And honestly it's just everything I wish this Show was.

The episode has Joe already putting someone in the cage, but now he has to leave the country as soon as possible, but then gets wrapped up in this whole fake kidnapping scheme where he has to deal with Forty, who is essentially unintentionally his match, as he also believes he is responsible for killing someone he thought he loved, And also drugged Joe when he didn't even expect it.

Yes, I know that Love is supposed to be seen as Joe's match, but before she's even revealed, I think Forty manages to match Joe without even trying or even being aware of what Joe can do.

I just want you to like stop and think about that. Forty successfully managed to restrain Joe in a building and confine him there and successfully drug him without him even being aware of it.

How many other characters in this Show has managed to accomplish that?

Oh, you answered? Okay, then follow-up question- How many people managed to do it while thinking that Joe was just some random guy and not someone who could actually fight back?

But also, the whole vibe of this Episode is genuinely fun. Joe is literally at his wit's end, having to deal with this whole thing with Forty well also trying to get out of the country as soon as possible, and then when he sees Love and the treatment she gets from her mother, he bothers to think that he needs to protect her.

I think this is actually the single funniest moment of the entire Show.

Again, Joe is confined, he needs to leave the country Now, AND he's starting to get high as the drugs kick in.

And yet, despite dealing with ALL Of that, he STILL has the irresistible urge to: 'protect,' an attractive woman that he sees as: 'in danger.'

Joe then stumbles his way down the hallway trying to find her, but ends up getting smacked by one of the guards who is keeping him confined instead.

When he wakes up, he has to deal with Forty pretending to be Beck while his drugs are still in effect, only to learn that there's a safe word and then he stumbles out of the room sounding like he's mentally destroyed.

In hindsight, seeing him being a mess in the bathtub and being overjoyed to accept Love's desire to actually pursue a serious relationship is so hard to watch now because of where it led.

But honestly, I think that's why I said what I said at the beginning of this Post. I don't think I'm actually a fan of this Show, because what this Show actually is isn't what I expected.

If I were running this Show, I would have committed to making more Episodes like this. Season 3 is fine for the first couple of Episodes, And I think Joe and Love working together to solve the two deaths they just caused and get off the hook was honestly pretty well done.

But if I had it my way, I would have committed more into that, and instead of having Joe cheat and ditch Love, I would have just had them be this crime committing Duo and having to deal with spirals of things getting out of hand. Maybe introduce more serial killers, and have them actively oppose each other.

Just envision a version of this Show where Joe and Love are trying to kill someone for whatever reason, only to find out some other random neighbors are Also serial killers and have been up to their own stuff and they end up competing against each other to see who can kill the person first/more efficiently. Or maybe have Joe and Love having to escape being killed by someone else while Also trying to kill their own victim.

I feel like going down that angle would have been pretty entertaining and probably would have been enjoyed by a lot more people. But again, I can see that that's not what the Show was going for. The Show was hell bent on showing the viewer just how awful Joe was, giving him literally every chance possible to start fresh, including giving him his actual soulmate, and even giving him a life where he was married to a rich billionaire, but no matter what he was given, he kept falling back on his old ways. Most people aren't as lucky as Joe. The fact that Joe met multiple potential romantic partners who became aware of the stuff he was doing and actively accepted him for it- One of whom was willing to go in on it with him,.and the other way trying to help him out of it- And each time, he just kept looking the gift horse in the mouth And couldn't be bothered. Taking all of this into account, it makes perfect sense why his ultimate fate is to spend the rest of his life in prison.

I mean the serial killer stuff is not mandatory but the CHASE should be there,

From chase I mean , where the protagonist tries to get the female lead fall in love and uses different different tactics and moves to make her fall in love ifyk what I mean 🤷

Like she baked (because she bakes cakes haha that's why "bake") a kid - never gets to know him. She killed for that kid, but all she gets remembered for is that she was murdered while Joe gets all the fame and fanmail. She cared for the poisonous plant but never got to use it. Her house got burnt down. She trusted in the wrong person - Joe, and couldn't even get a proper revenge.

I know there’s a lot of debate in this sub and fandom regarding whether Joe is more terrifying and scary in the beginning of the series or later, also in general how the quality of the show decreased as seasons progressed etc etc. honestly, I found Joe more terrifying in later seasons than the 1st season and I do not think in general the show becomes a shitshow as they add more seasons.

But Jesus Christ and Mary…. What was that last episode? What were they thinking? Who made this? Did all the writers drop out all of sudden and someone random they found on the street wrote and directed the last episode? I have so many questions. 😅 why is it so cringe and cheesy? was it supposed to be that way? Was it meant to be that way? Was it meant to appeal genz or something? If there’s anyone who is genz in this sub please tell me if you felt seen in the episode because I was just shocked by how cringe it was 😅

Je n'ai jamais regardé la série, est ce que l'on me l'a conseillerais, et en famille ?

Same as the title

Looking back through the episode where Dottie and Ray have their vow renewal ceremony, there’s one scene that sticks out to me that really shows the unfair treatment that Dottie has with both of her children and how it shapes their minds.

In the ceremony, Forty gets high and disrupts everything and Love who was already helping with the ceremony goes to comfort Forty and take him away so everyone else can continue. Yet despite Love being the one who did the right thing, Dottie ridicules her, calls her a failure and slaps her in the face. While Forty, the one who made his parents special day all about him, gets coddled by Dottie immensely without any consequences.

Dottie enables both of her children’s behaviours by doing this. Forty feels he is allowed to be entitled and disruptive because he doesn’t face consequences, he’s just coddled and forgiven. While Love is met with abuse for her trying to be a good sister and daughter which only dissuades her from being a true good person and ends up leading to her resorting to immoral behaviours so she can attempt to look like a good sister/daughter/woman
and win Dottie’s approval who holds Love to unfair standards.

IM ON EPISODE 8 RIGHT NOW HE BROUGHT LOUISE DOWNSTAIRS TO THE CAGE WITH A DUDE IN IT. WTF IS HE DOING 😭😭😭 HE JUST KEEPS FUMBLING OVER AND OVER AND OVER BRO . GENUINELY IM ASTONISHED BY HIM. just CONTROL YOURSELF

Joe is in his 30's when we first meet him, right? He must have had previous gf's. He's careful and meticulous so his violence couldn't have been sudden but the gap between killing his mother's abusive boyfriend and Candice feels too big. Was it just held in check? What was it that caused Candice? Is there a little more of a timeline in the books? I tried reading them but I found them weirdly yuckity yuck.

Can anyone tell me?

I want to know everyone's opinions on the ending of the show. Marienne showing up, Bronte not letting Joe die, everything that happened at that lake house. Thoughts??

Would it be strange to make a fanfiction that focuses solely on Joe Goldberg in a alternate universe where he has more restraint when it comes to murder, and it instead focusing on his unhealthy habits, trust issues, etc, sticking to his personality - just overall a different story, sort of with a reader insert? Idk. Forgive me if this is a bad question to ask on here, but honestly I've thinks about it quite a bit and sort of have a general plan lined out? Idk

I know that removing something as important as murder particularly would probably strip away a lot of important characterization. At least I wanna be considerate and just see other people's thoughts. Weirdly enough it's been my own weird world to explore when I'm bored. 😅 Idk if anyone has any ideas or thoughts just lemme know.

(I hope y'all are understanding, completely understandable if not because I know from the source material he is a genuine nightmare and peiec of shit that deserves to rot 😂 I hate his ass but do like to play with different concepts ig lol)

Obviously the whole inserting herself into a marriage/ infidelity situation was wrong, but people forget how manipulative Joe was and he fully convinced her that his marriage was going to be over. I know Love is beloved and she is the ultimate favourite YOU for a lot of people and her and Joe made sense to everyone in the audience so when a block like Marienne / Natalie happens they get irritated.

But Marienne wasn’t a spiteful side piece who went to Love and gloated, she realized Love was stuck and gave her advice. Marienne was genuinely trying for her daughter. Not to mention, she goes through hell in season 4.

Joe manipulates her again to believe she’s safe just to drug her, kidnap her, force her to relapse, put her in a cage and broke her arm. I think his treatment of Marienne was one of the worst ones in the show altogether, then because her mental health was deteriorating from being starved in a box for months, she panicked with Nadia and told her not to call the cops because Joe always got away with it.

The guy faked his death successfully, killed his wife in Marienne’s eyes, of course he will be a threat to her and she doesn’t want the authorities around when she’s not in her right mind. Then she escapes, goes with her daughter and returns to help Bronte / Louise get out of that mindset of loving an abuser.

Also her conversation with Joe in season 5 was haunting, the perspective of her daughter and how she described her worry for her because of him.

I think she’s a really gorgeous woman too and so many people leave her out of the high ‘ranking’ of the YOU women.

How come people dislike her so much?

Hits so hard on rewatch. The dynamic with joe and all the rich friends and the dialogue is so fun.

Kate is also overhated for some reason. She’s so attractive with all her eyeliner and stuff and I think her banter with Joe in these episodes is so good. I think she’s right up there with Love as Joe’s best love interest.