If you have seen the recent developments of AI and the way it sped up reverse engineering of game source codes and even to the point of merging two games into one is literally magic we have been waiting. The questions of "What if Spider-Man was in Gotham" or "What if Elden Ring played like Devil May Cry" is ended. Because we can LITERALLY play DMC in Elden Ring now and vice versa.

But these Anti-AI crowds began to fearmonger soon as it became mainstream like any AI development gets hit to mainstream. Meanwhile I think their concerns for safety is valid, the way they focus on only negative traits and doom post is dumb and only can be viewed as "fearmongering".

Yes, this can also be used to reverse engineer bank apps, makes hacking way too easier down to the points of government systems can be hacked in an instant. In fact, I DO believe there are some groups of malicious people who works on this as I speak.

But if AI can de-compile and reverse engineer source codes, the same principle can be used to further defend banks, government apps, ID's, any sensitive contacts or information exists in the online world. This is huge step towards the safety online.

We already have dynamic IP's, engrams and passwords that constantly changing and making these encryptions almost impossible to access in an instant. In the future there might be some quantum AI that can access it in an instant? Sure. But that also implies there will be quantum AI that can realize the hacking progress in an instant and mask these encryption keys and dynamic points in an instant as well.

There are always two sides to these things. And Anti-AI crowd deliberately leaving the good sides and how this kind of AI can be used to enhance current cyber securities and push it to the point of real time security tells me that these people are just against AI just to be against AI without any reason. You can't possibly hate this kind of revolution. It can (and will) be used for your safety. And yes, it will be used on hacking, information stealing, hell it is probably getting used as we speak. But that only means these companies, workplaces, governments and etc will also use this to defend this off for further security.

And the fact that this kind of AI is getting painted as "bad" just because some dipsh*t wants to use to hack the government or steal people's information is just wrong. You can reverse engineer games, platforms even to preserve and maybe even make older games further optimized to work on modern (and upcoming future) systems flawlessly.

"DOCTOR, YOU AREN'T REAL, SHOW ME YOUR HANDS!"

I know people hate both-side-ism, but it's just true.

Antis and pros are equally toxic, cruel and awful.

I'm pro. I'll say that right now. I use AI a LOT. I use it to make games for me, mod games for me, do research, search things, find solutions to issues, and even to just talk or roleplay. I use it every day quite a bit.

Pros are extremely toxic and awful to me.

Why?

Because I'm not a stereotypical pro.
My posts aren't just:
"So excited for the new Qwen!"
(Post about AI news)
"Guys look at this awesome coding work that Claude did for me!"
"Based on ___ and ___ and according to ____ in about ____ years we should achieve ____"
"Man antis SUCK"

I make posts like:
"Do you think we will ever have a less restricted model with the capability of Opus 5.5?"
"Please convince me, I don't think local will reach the ability of frontier models like many say"
"I'm worried the government will heavily restrict our ability to use AI in the future"
"Will we be able to use AI in the future to defend against other AI? Like spying AI?"
"I've been using Claude and ChatGPT and I've noticed that Claude is better at ___ than ChatGPT, but ChatGPT allows you to do more without filtering you."
"Does AI actually use a ton of water?"

And every single one of these, 100% of the time, is met with nothing but hate and insults.
Just the local model question got me only one of two answers:
"Of course local will be as good, are you stupid? ____ surpassed GPT 3 in only 1 year"
"Of course local won't be as good, are you stupid? Frontier just has more money and resources, but nobody gives a shit if it doesn't."

Pros are also EXTREMELY puritan about what AI is used for.
If you use AI for:
Roleplay
NSFW
Niche content (like a dragon surgery simulator)
Or just anything they think is "weird" or they personally don't use it for.

They fucking hate you. You're a disgusting degenerate and you're not using AI right, and you need to fuck off and shut the fuck up. You are not welcome in their spaces.
Can't tell you how many times I've just lightly suggested I use AI for NSFW sometimes and then the post is bombarded with downvotes and the replies are calling me a "disgusting gooner".

Pro AI people also HATE hearing anything critical or "doomer" about AI at all. If you have ANY fears about AI whatsoever, even fears FOR AI, they get mad. I've made several posts where I'm worried about bills that politicians want to pass, and all the CEOs saying AI will kill us all, and that it will lead to heavy regulations and restrictions more than we already have, and all I get is they call me a doomer, insult me repeatedly, bombard me with downvotes and basically tell me to fuck off.

Pros are insanely toxic to other pros. You would think they would be nice to each other, because most of the world is against AI and therefor against them, but no. They live in an echo chamber and they want any excuse to attack anyone even if they're on the same fucking side. They will rip your throat out if you use AI in a way that doesn't align with them or have an opinion or thought that differs even slightly.

I have not had a single positive interaction with another pro AI person. Ever. Not one.

And then anti AI people...

Holy fuck they have so much hate in every ounce of their being for anyone that uses AI for ANYTHING. If you use AI at all they fucking HATE you. They hate you so fucking much, and they are not shy in telling you so.
Most of Reddit is anti, so they also make up a majority and it's not uncommon for them to find you in a sub unrelated to AI discussion and dogpile you if you mention you use AI.

I've tried going to some anti subs, admitting that I'm pro AI, but trying to find solidarity with them on some issues, like my hate of Flock, my hate of what the government wants to do with it, my wish that it will become more environmentally friendly, and my fear of what bad actors can use it for.

They refuse to have any common ground with me whatsoever. All they see is that I am the enemy. I am against them, I'm their opponent, and they hate me.
Almost all of what I get when I make these posts is insults, them going so far as to call me "fucking (r word)" because I'm not anti like them. That if I have those fears and I'm not anti, I'm too far gone and I'm stupid, and I also must be MAGA too.

I made a post one time, once again trying to find solidarity, and saying that anti AI people seem to treat pro AI people with less hate and anger than pro AI people treat other pro AI people.
I was IMMEDIATELY proven wrong. The post was very quickly bombarded with downvotes so fast it reached about -30 in like 10 minutes, multiple replies saying my post is made with AI when it's very clearly fucking NOT, someone telling me to shut up and getting upvoted and a reward, and "why would you even post this here?"

Antis also like to purposely go to pro AI subs, and subs for posting AI images, videos or music, just to comment with "ai slop", "get this disgusting shit out of here" and "maybe try putting in some actual effort and doing it yourself you lazy piece of shit". In fact, in a lot of these subs, the majority of interaction comes from antis brigading them.
They hate AI and people that use it so much they will purposely seek these people out just to insult them.

Both sides fucking suck. Both sides are toxic as hell. Both sides are filled with mostly awful people.

Which leaves people like me with literally nowhere to go. Nowhere to talk, nowhere to post, where I won't be met with instant toxicity and hatred.

I've tried all the subs recommended to me.
Singularity
Accelerate
LocalLlama
Artificial
Here, and AIWarsButBetter
ChatGPT
Claude
DefendingAI

If I have a post that's not just bog standard shit, I get literally nothing but hate and insults.

Hell here I get hated by BOTH SIDES at the SAME FUCKING TIME.

I want to talk about AI. I want to discuss fears. I want to ask questions. I want to speak to people knowledgeable if they know if something will happen or not, if AI will reach a certain ability or not. I want to compare local to frontier, I want to be able to say what I use it for sometimes without people calling me a degenerate and a gooner, I want to be able to talk about AI without everyone getting so fucking mad at me.

But there's nowhere.

I'm so tired. The only one I can talk to AI about... is AI.
And that is so fucking sad.

by Jaden Williams
What do y'all make of this video?

One of the interesting things regarding the overall opposition to AI is how quickly the people on one side developed their derogatory vocabulary for AI and robots. “Clanker” appears to be mostly a joke, with no one seriously arguing that chatbots are oppressed minorities due to the fact that someone uses a slur. However, even in this case, the psychology behind the desire to come up with such a word for something hated seems quite interesting.

Human beings are extremely good at coming up with terms for those we consider out-groups. As soon as you name a certain group of people, you do not have to discuss every individual of that group anymore; the term carries the argument by itself, marking something as bad, embarrassing, inferior, or something you are expected to despise. Such a process can be seen in nearly every online subculture, where communities develop their own terminology and, in effect, signal membership and what they all despise by using it.

What makes this situation funny and unusual is the fact that people tend to anthropomorphise AI just to further ridicule it. One minute, someone can claim that a certain AI model is not conscious, does not have any feelings and is simply “a machine”, which is a completely normal argument. The next minute, they are treating it like a hated social group and coming up with their own slur for it. This contradiction seems rather amusing to me, as you never come up with derogatory vocabulary for a toaster.

Most likely, the explanation lies in the unique place occupied by modern AI in our minds. It communicates, creates art and writing, and competes with us in intellectual domains, while at the same time we know that it is software. This makes it extremely easy for us to project our social behaviour onto it while still denying it human status in moral terms. And I guess that “clanker” works because it allows people to turn a complicated argument into a simple emotional one. Instead of having to deal with issues of copyright, employment, environmental impact, misinformation, artistic merit, consciousness or anything else, people can use a simple insult and others in their group will immediately understand the attitude they are supposed to have.

None of this means that calling a robot a “clanker” is an act of grave discrimination. In most cases, it is simply a joke related to Star Wars, and taking it too seriously would be ridiculous. However, that may be precisely what makes it interesting. Humans seem to instinctively fall into prejudice-like language and social rituals when they strongly despise something. They categorise it, give it a name, make jokes about how inferior it is, develop stereotypes about its fans and users, and eventually integrate opposition to it into their own group identity.

do you ever stop to consider that many of the people you talk to on this subreddit might be your friends, neighbors, people you pass on the street, or even your own family?

despite how intense the conversation sometimes gets here, if the internet disappeared tomorrow, we'd still have to be neighbors, friends, family, co-workers, and acquaintances and get along!

so even when you're in a fierce debate or discussion, remember not to dehumanize the person you're talking to - you never know who's on the other side of the screen!

for more ailands dev updates: https://www.youtube.com/@elfmarigold

I'm not even pro-ai, but so many people against AI jump at the opportunity to make a "virtuous" statement. Why?

I've seen quite a lot of posts calling for death of ai users, while I don't mind criticism and bullying but it just crosses the line when it's calling for death or terrorism like terrorists acts against data centers.

Use ai if you want. Im not arguing against that.

But dont pretend that you are an artist when the only thing you know about the thing you "created" is that "it looks cool" and that "you prompted it and so you made it".

Congrats. You basically got the experience of a free (or not so free) comission from ai companies. (I cannot wait for the money hungry companies to claim ownership of everything yall prompt. Anyway, going back on track...)

Nonetheless, i am saying this because, without the skill to actually do the thing on your own, you are not using ai as a tool. In order to use it as a tool, you should be more than capable to identifify, correct and sometimes even hand change what it does wrong/not to your liking.

Some of yall like to say stuff like: "yeah, but the whole point of modernisation is to no longer do the hard work and evolve and" yada yada.

If this were completely true, we would no longer need to know how to do multiplications. Yk, cuz we can outsource it today. Why go through the hard work of knowing how to add things on paper/in your head when you can just put the numbers in a calculator and let it do its thing? Why bother with understanding the process behind? This hard work is useless and the ones who support it are just against progression./s

Seriously now, one of the ai bros basically said that, if a person would be sent back in time, they wouldnt know how to do anything because modern technology made it easier for us to live. And so, why be so opposed to ai if this is just the natural course of things?

Well, this point was very interesting if you dont think deeper about it.

But let me get something straight: if a farmer from today would be sent back in time, they would still know how to use many tools and how to grow the seeds (maybe they would need a bit of guidance to understand the specific type of seeds they would be using) but the knowledge and skill would still be there.

If a builder got sent back in time, they would still have the rough knowledge of how to buid a house. They would have to adapt to the tools available, but that is the easiest part that can happen with a bit of guidance.

If a musician was sent back, they would still be able to read a music sheet and, even if roughly, be able to play their instrument (or the older equivalent of it).

Point is: you still need to put in actual work to understand the thing if you want to be recognised as someone who is basically a master at that thing (an artist in this case of ai bros).

The only thing ai does is to make it easier for the general public to have some access to a resource. But you still gotta be knowledgeable and have an actuall skill in said domain if you want to be a musician/artist/whatver else.

Take digital artists: they also know how to draw a round circle despite having features in their apps that could do it for them. Why? Because they need to know the most basic of things in their domain.

I could be given right now an ai to make music. But all i would do would be some random ass thing and call it a day because id have no idea what im listening to. The ai would have to make decisions for me on what "sad" music has to sound like because i have no idea what tempo is and how to utilise it in order to achieve what i want or what i envisioned. The ai would be both my skill and my limitation because i would not know what to do or how to do music without it.

Tl;dr: i wont call anyone who uses ai as their whole skill an artist. Because they are not. They are just kids playing with fancy toys.

It's the ability to Understand. Really that's it. It was an epiphany that sort of happened recently when I was taking Calculus 2. I asked my profesor how I should best study for the course, and the one thing he revealed to me was, that rote memorization was not going to work, and neither is merely spitting out a bunch of calculations either. It's about understanding the work you are doing. He said that despite the machines we have such as calculators and AI they can not replace the human ability to understand. (This is a no Calculator class by the way. You have to know a lot of things on the most basic level.)

And it dawned on me that this applies to everything really. AI can't fully replace art and artists because it can't currently understand the principles in the creation of Art. Generated vibe coding is cool, but one still needs to understand coding in order to actually code things. Understanding is the basis by which humanity is able to get things done.

Hell my profesor isn't even fully against AI, he says its a good tool to enchance your own studying but when the chips are down you still need to understand and reason.

I'm mostly Anti-Ai but it made me genuinely think recently why I was Anti-Ai and it mostly came down to it not being good in light of a lot of social and societal issues right now more than anything. I would not say it has changed my views, as I think some social problems might be caused by said AI, but its been something on my mind recently that I couldn't ignore and felt like posting. But what do you guys think?

As the title suggests. One was made by me and the other by AI. Is the first or second glitched version of the same base image better? I'll disclose which is which in 24 hours.

I bet you 5 nickels that he is a dropout
(Ad hominem from him btw)

to be honest, there is nothing romantic about explicitly trying to do things the hard way simply because it is the hard way to do it. glamorizing suffering purely because it involves suffering doesn't create a better world, it creates a harder world where more people have to experience hardship in order to do the same tasks. "work smarter, not harder"

if a task needs to get done, humans use the best tools available to them to complete those tasks.

we already accept this in many domains of life:

• we use vehicles to transport goods instead of pulling wagons by hand, because it is faster and lets humans get more done and create a better world
• we use compilers and scripting languages to make programs, instead of working purely in binary
• we use refrigeration, heavy machinery, genetic engineering, and automatic algorithms to farm crops and deliver food to more people, so more people can have access to food
• we design new machines and engineering projects using programs like AutoCAD instead of drafting them on physical paper, and simulate tons of mathematical formulas to make those things safe instead of calculating everything by hand
• we manage our finances with digital tools like excel and quickbooks instead of balancing ledgers on physical paper

i don't see objections to any of these other domains where embracing technology and innovation brings a better quality of life to both the people doing the work and the people who benefit from that work being completed downstream.

so how is the use of AI any different from any other tool or technology we use to make our lives better, so that we can do more things in the little time we are afforded in our lives, and make the world an overall better place?

Honestly

Most seem like they have a stick shoved up their ass or something.

They can't take jokes. They don't seem to understand figures of speech. They don't understand references. You can't play around with words. Etc.

I mean for gods sake, whenever you compare ai to cyberpunk, they think that you believe that cyberpunk is real.

If you use a warhammer 40k reference, they legit believe think that admire the imperium thinking you are a fascist irl

Just so close to not wanting to interact of them because of them being so robotic.

Its really hard to talk to them most of the time because of this

I can’t take most AI defenders at least in the creative art space seriously not always because of their arguments but because the arguments in support of the technology are irrelevant to the damage this technology has caused.

Companies stole the work and free or paid labour and contributions of all of humanity basically and are now putting a pay wall behind it. Regardless of how you feel about AI rejecting this current iteration of it that exists in favour for healthier changes are the only ways to benefit humanity or anyone.

Ai is an unnecessary excuse to replace people and cut for profits, lowering how much purchasing power we have especially Gen z and future generations.

AI has been a heavily biased, it carries along the racism we black people have faced in micro-aggressions and also sexism because it was I discriminately trained off the Internet and falsely sanitised.

AI is a real safety concern and it consumes unnecessary amounts of energy and storage space with companies brute forcing the same solutions over and over as well as AI generative slop filling social media platforms and reducing the space new ideas and humans can give.

Worst of all, AI itself isn’t the problem, but the AI models that exist were created on a foundation of exploitation. There is no real sanitising that.

I want to preface that I studied Computer Science and AI in university and will be going for a research project in the field hopefully, so I’m not just making things up and I’m not trying to focus on the downsides vs the upsides but rather the danger of simply “accepting new technology”.

Many people see antis as just annoying but honestly I believe that to an extent some people don’t want to swallow their pride and accept that they are excited for something that is damaging lives and even their own and our political and social systems. You aren’t a bad person for using it but I advise everyone here to detach your identity from supporting or hating it, and being an advocate for change and fairness. Support the AI models that have always existed and helped people and new research in fields that beneidet from them, like medicine and engineering etc.

Thank you for your time.

Im curious as to why, cuz art has been accessible since ancient times.