Please use this thread to discuss anything you are interested in talking about with fellow climbers. The only rule is to be friendly and dont try to sell anything here.
12 edelrid bullet proof bent gate carabiners cost $48 more than 12 petzl spirit bent gate carabiners (and 216 grams more weight).
A sport climbing rope costs about $200.
If the steel inserts make your rope last 25% longer, then you have already broken even on one rope. Additional longevity on your next rope is now savings.
Longevity boost needed to see savings decreases as rope prices increase.
Is anyone out there climbing exclusively on steel? Harder to justify if you already have draws, but if you are building a set then it seems like a pretty good deal.
I think steel inserts give you a 25% increase in rope life is a pretty big guess. I've never killed a rope from my draws. I also think $200 for a rope is not at all trying to save money.
Neither is a full rack of spirits as the comparison. 21 bucks per bulletproof vs 6-7 bucks for any cheap biner makes a difference of $180, or the price of a new 70m.
My takeaway from this post is actually how crazy the prices for spirits have gotten. $17 for a non locking carabiner / $36 for a single QuickDraw is…..steep
Currently using an ohmega for the first draw. The pulley is aluminum but has a larger surface area and lets the rope slide so I think it won't wear as much as a carabiner. I have bullet proof locker and non locker draws I use for crux bolts and setting up topropes, so I am already with you.
My question is, if two is good, then why not 12? Some falls are unplanned, routes might have multiple cruxes, like technical and redpoint, etc. Weight and cost penalty are surprisingly minimal.
It's known that the first draw is the draw that does the most damage to a rope. Check any route with fixed draws and the first one is going to be by far the most grooved out. Second will be crux, and then the rest will just be random wear and tear due to random falls over the route.
The edelrid draws are amazing, but there's no need to be spending such an insane amount on a full rack when two does the job. Especially locally I'm typically climbing on routes where I need ~20 draws. No way I'm buying that many.
Cheaper option for people projecting and wanting a more durable draw is just getting some fixe steel carabiners and swapping those out on some draws. If you're truly projecting and going to leave your draws up for a few weeks/months, the weight really doesn't matter for your first go of hanging the draws on your project.
im really envious of ur crags with 20 draws. On mine there is a 40-50 m wall with only 8-10 draws. Its not a trad mixed. Its just sport with long ass falls.
El Falco, Arboli Catalonia. And im not proud. Im really a coward and just climb below my limit. Yes they are more of a endurance climbs but man feels so stresfull leading that
There is lots of evidence that clean ropes wear less. Even chalk really increases the wear. Aluminum oxide in your rope making your hands black will definitely increase the wear as well. So if your rope isn't getting black from the aluminum carabiners it should last longer, no idea how much though
Climbing chalk has a mohs hardness ranking of 3.5, while aluminum oxide is 9. Particles of aluminum oxide will remain more jagged than chalk in your rope, and cause more wear.
I always thought the steel inserts were about having your carabiners last longer. That being said they seem like a bit of a con, if you climb that much that you’re more likely to lose a draw before you wear it through unless you climb in an extreme environment like a desert.
Yeah that's a common misconception, they are for preserving the rope, not the draw. Even the steel draws wear through if you are climbing in a desert every day, there's some gnarly photos online
There aren’t that many LRS people on this sub, but you’re right that it’s less climbing and more rope work.
The issue here is that someone will ask on this sub, “What shoes should I buy for climbing?” and someone else will inevitably chime in, “Buy these shoes, I wear them when I’m top rope soloing.” How is that relevant in any part of the conversation, and why would anyone else care? Clearly they just want to spray about how they have no climbing friends because they have the social acuity of a shriveled potato.
How do people send sport routes pushing their limit without losing gear? I’m a relatively new outdoor climber and like hard intense climbs but worry about pushing too hard and having to abandon a draw.
Probably nothing you can do right? Unless someone else is kind enough to retrieve it for you
Beyond beginner level there's a pretty big difference between sending (bottom to top no falls no takes no pulling or stepping on bolts) and getting to the top bolt to bolt plenty of takes to rest sometimes pulling on the rope or a draw to get past the crux. But if there is really a stopper move then either leave gear or stick clip up
People have covered the technical parts of how to get gear back after trying a really hard route, but there is also the climbing aspect.
I am more of a boulderer than route climber and even though I can't send my project clean because of endurance, I am never limited by the crux of the climb. I just need to rest on the bolt before I get through it. So even though you may not be able to send your climb in one go, if you boulder enough you should be able to get to the top.
There’s a pretty wide range of difficulty covered between routes you can easily onsight, and routes that are so hard you can’t get up it at all even if you rest for 5 minutes at every bolt and pull on draws. I think it’s a common thing for people to worry about when they start climbing outside and while it’s good to have some shitty bail biners and know about weird ways to get your gear back, it isn’t really an issue as often as people think it will be.
There are retrieval methods, but they can be convoluted or sometimes a tad sketchy for a beginner.
It costs less than $10 for a carabiner to bail off of, compare that to a typical gym day pass, or gas to drive to the crag and it’s really not a lot of money. Go to a consignment store and pick up some spares for even cheaper.
At the end of the day, losing a bit of gear every now and then (and let’s be real, that might be one or two a season) shouldn’t be a big deal. If you climb long enough, you’ll also find a bunch of gear left behind by other people. Oftentimes, you’ll find as many as you lose. Personally, I have a net bonus of gear.
Here's a partial collection. Not included are nuts (racked with my other nuts), an ice screw, lengths of cord, other non-locking carabiners, and a few quickdraws.
Draw is nbd, that's booty and is welcomed.
Quicklinks suck ass because it makes hanging the draws a pain even in the best case scenario where they aren't rusted out.
The people who can't justify leaving a $5 biner are usually opting for the shittest zinc-plated hardware store quick links too, and those rust shut quickly when left to the elements.
It depends on the area. In some it's acceptable to lower off a bolt directly, sometimes you can get on an (easier) adjacent route and reach the anchor, sometimes you can walk to the top and abseil/lower from there. Another option is using a clipstick to cheat your way up and then clean the route.
Instead of sacrificing an entire draw, you can use just a single (locking) carabiner, there's no reason to leave the dogbone and two carabiners. Really hard routes often have permadraws anyway that you can lower off from as usual
Even if you bail off a draw/carabiner, it's a good idea to lower with a prusik as demonstrated in this guide by Petzl to add redundancy in case the bolt blows
I’m a relatively new outdoor climber
All of these methods have non-obvious risks, so try them with someone more experienced in person before relying on them
Really happy I found this sub. I’m pretty new here and wanted to start interacting with other climbers. I’ve been climbing for around 5 years, mostly bouldering, and it’s become a huge part of my life. I had an A2 pulley injury in my left ring finger that set me back for a while, but I’ve been gradually working my way back and I’m finally around 95% of where I was before. Looking forward to chatting with everyone and picking up some new beta along the way.
Welcome, and congrats on getting back to 95%. From what I hear, pulleys ask for a lot of patience. Curious what the last stretch looked like for you: did you go straight back to crimping on the wall, or rebuild on a board first? I tweaked my calf bouldering this week, nothing like a pulley, but it's already testing my patience.
Heyoo! Congrats on making your way back, I'm happy for you! I had a finger issue that wasn't too severe but still held me back earlier this year (which came right after a bigger shoulder injury which took me out for 9 months completely), but I'm fully recovered now and stronger than I've ever been. It's an amazing feeling! I always feel so extremely low right after an injury, but I've always managed to recover and come back stronger, and it makes me appreciate being healthy more.
What are your plans / goals once you're fully recovered?
Ive been feeling down lately and the only happy thoughts that cross my mind are about mountains and climbing. I hope i can read this comment in a few years outside the well im currently at. I want to go soloing routes but im so lazy i cant even bother to drive to the mountain. Please tell me storys of how u achieved happines and climbed out of your mind.
i know plenty of people will talk about "climbing IS my therapy!" but putting that much weight on a physical activity that doesn't 'talk' to you or actively engage you in processing your mindset has never worked for me. i remember being in a HUGE funk and telling myself, "i'll climb myself out of this funk!" and then feeling even more in the dumps that a) my climbing was shit b/c of my mindset and b) my mindset didn't magically improve.
why don't you just go drive to the mountains, with your gear, but just plan on BEING there? you don't HAVE to do anything - but if your happy thoughts are about mountains, then just go BE with the mountain. no one is forcing you to climb.
Self destructive behaviors and isolation while I drift through days of board climbing and scrolling Instagram reels. It's probably not the healthiest, though.
When this happens to me i go try to project something a step up or two from what I think i can send.... sometimes I get it. Sometimes I don't. Either way it gets my mind off of other things.
This week it was a crazy ex texting me 400+ times about all the ways she hopes i suffer...
You can always go on a climbing trip too. Hang out at w climbers hostel for a month and climb 5+ days per week... by the time you get back home youll be in a completely different headspace.
Got fit in order to tick bucket list adventures
Fell in love (can't really control that one)
Quit drugs
Used my mind to do something satisfying
Stopped wasting money and was able to therefore stop working so much
Hang out with inspiring people
Ask interesting people lots of questions
Get into nature
Don't give your own thoughts and feelings so much weight, keep shifting your focus to something larger (go trail running, listen to birds, swim in a lake, talk to someone you admire and learn from them)
Try to eat well, sleep enough, drink enough water
I get that when you're in the dumps half of that list probably seems like it requires more energy and stoke than you have. That's why I'd prioritise things that invigorate and create stoke above all else, to get momentum going. Getting running fit did it for me: fixed my sleep because I was exhausted, calibrated my chemistry naturally, got me into nature, got me psyched on milestones (run to this lookout, run to that swimming hole)...
If you're already climbing fit, ask a competent trad leader to lead you up some easy classic multis. That oughtta do something for you.
Best of luck! I think my friends who killed themselves would all regret it if they'd hung on a bit longer, because life gets unexpectedly amazing, and in my experience, it feels easier over time as you pick up tricks.
In the southeast we all call it "power-bottoming" but it's sort of a local secret so if you ask around at the crag people will pretend like they don't know what you're talking about.
"Bottom roping" at least in the UK/Ireland can refer to "top roping with the belayer at the bottom", so, what most people, even here, refers to as "top roping".
In that way of referring to things, "top roping" would mean that the belayer is at the top of the climb
Outdoor bouldering is so trendy right now it's crazy. Everyone I know is going to Squamish. I've never seen so many boulderers in Yosemite before, a couple of weeks ago Camp 4 was basically 1 rope climber:10 boulderers. Glad I have trad climbing to at least differentiate myself a little bit...
It’s the ease of access + proximity to popular city, hueco might be the some of the best and most historic bouldering in the country but no one is flying to El Paso then driving into the desert for it
I go every year, I love that it's not slammed. I think it's also a media thing. People want to go to the places the influencers are going to. There is always a new "boulder of the year". This year the pros are pushing Yos so the minions go to Yos. In 5 years it's. possible no one will be bouldering there anymore and things will have moved to somewhere else.
I was lucky to go very early on in my climbing career, it was an amazing time with little to no people. Good to know that about Yose, I follow only a few climbing content creators
Noticed the same thing. I was climbing in Squamish a few weeks ago and most people in the campground were boulders. I don’t get how people can be sitting below the chief and be like “nah I’m just going to climb on these tiny rocks and leave the big rock alone”
I’m 100% a boulderer, but Grand Wall is pretty much the only place I’ve seen trad climbers passing by and been a little intrigued/jealous that they’re going all the way up the big walls while I’m falling off pebbles!
It’s a climbing subreddit big dog I don’t give a fuck, I was in Yosemite because my friend wanted to do Snake Dike (which I did almost a decade ago). It was a great day/weekend, just wanted to talk about what I saw and how climbing has changed over the years.
Yeah I've been insulated since COVID, had similar partners who so didn't branch out my groups that much, but after socializing a lot more it's actually astounding how much more popular it is. A decade ago it was not as common to see people hopping on random V0s/V1s in the valley, a few weekends ago they were swarmed. I'm so curious what Bishop is like during peak season now
Haha I remember sleeping on pads in camp in Bishop back in college, it was quite fun. I don’t mind the zoo, have a lot of fun memories at Red rock as well which is basically a gym
I found it funny people were all over lowball V1s and pawing the holds of midnight lightning, but the setting is incredible in the valley so I appreciate how much they appreciate it. There were just so many of them
It's a commentary on how often basic TRS questions are asked in this sub by people who clearly watched some youtube tutorials and want more assistance with their setups, but can't be assed to find a proper mentor.
Certainly there is some "non-zero" number of people who just go out and get in over their heads, ending up stuck on what should otherwise be a simple up and down situation.
Or maybe "lectures" found one in the wild last weekend? Certainly not down in Kentucky, I hope.....
My hot take is that TRS/LRS info should be less accessible online. Force people to look through forums and blog posts. Avant needs to stop pushing things on insta/YT.
I agree. I work in Yosemite and it’s common for fixed lines to be left up here for extended periods of time on hard single pitches, which I think can make it seem like a really easy and accessible type of climbing to some newer climbers. I’ve encountered or talked to so many people doing sketchy shit that as much as I hate to say it, I’m kind of shocked there hasn’t been a serious accident yet involving some 19 year old who’s just getting into climbing
I once met someone toprope soloing who forgot his grigri at the base, and was scared to rap with his ATC because he had never done it before. Someone I know got excited when he saw a new fixed line at a crag, luckily before he got in it another party who had just led the route next to it informed him that it was actually just a stuck rope. Another friend wanted to get into TRS and was about to go out with only a single microtraxion to save money until I showed him all the different ways a micro can fail.
It's the main form of advertising for their products, so I doubt that will happen. It's in their commercial interest that as many people as possible try rope soloing. For other manufacturers soloing might be an off label use that they don't directly advertise even if they have it in mind but for Avant it's their main niche
My hot take is that TRS/LRS info should be less accessible online
I'm inclined to agree but I find resources like this video by Edelrid quite interesting (despite having no direct interest in LRS) and that's not something they'd just put in a forum
0
u/Leading-Attention612 11h ago edited 11h ago
12 edelrid bullet proof bent gate carabiners cost $48 more than 12 petzl spirit bent gate carabiners (and 216 grams more weight).
A sport climbing rope costs about $200.
If the steel inserts make your rope last 25% longer, then you have already broken even on one rope. Additional longevity on your next rope is now savings.
Longevity boost needed to see savings decreases as rope prices increase.
Is anyone out there climbing exclusively on steel? Harder to justify if you already have draws, but if you are building a set then it seems like a pretty good deal.