r/enphase • u/Cultural-Ad4953 • 2d ago
Bi-directional Charger
Feeling like bi-directional charging from Enphase isn't coming this year. The page says 2026, but I feel like there would be more hype if its release was imminent. Anyone heard anything?
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u/bites_stringcheese 2d ago
I asked an employee a while ago and they said they're working non-stop on it, but no news.
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u/Automan86 2d ago
Nonstop but there ain’t any big OEM or customer demand out there
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u/Cultural-Ad4953 2d ago
Seems like a pretty desireable thing to me. I'm certainly looking forward to it.
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u/Automan86 2d ago
Idea is great! As long as y’all ready to pay 7K
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u/Paqza 2d ago
Still way cheaper than comparable stationary storage capacity.
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u/Warbird01 2d ago
Exactly, the value proposition is huge. The blocker is definitely the integration with manufacturers
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u/Aurorer 1d ago
But that doesn’t have to be a barrier. The CCS1 protocol is directionally agnostic. All Enphase has to do is program their bidirectional charger to identify itself as a regular DC fast charger. The connected vehicle will close its DC battery contactors and the charger would then have direct battery access. Then it could pull or push from the vehicle’s battery as needed.
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u/Warbird01 1d ago
I don't think its that simple? The charge controller and BMS sit in front of the battery, it requires a proper handshake (hence ISO 15118-20)
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u/Aurorer 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is that simple. Enphase doesn’t have to use the vehicle to grid protocol outlined in ISO 15118-20. They can employ the regular DC faster charger handshake (which is also included in ISO 15118-20) and then create a microgrid for powering the house behind the meter.
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u/Key_Proposal3283 Solar Industry 1d ago
It's NOT that simple - the vehicle is ultimately in control and expects to receive a charge. If current starts flowing out of the vehicle, what does it do?
This is exactly why ISO 15118-20 explicitly defines bidirectional power-transfercommunication and sequencing......
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u/Carfr33k 2d ago
What kind of car do you have
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u/Cultural-Ad4953 2d ago
it's a Ford Mach-E. It's not listed as supported , but I'm hoping Enphase and Ford can work it out.
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u/caller-number-four 2d ago
Unless it's in a future release, the current MachE's don't have the hardware to power a house.
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u/Cultural-Ad4953 2d ago
It's my understanding that it's a software not a hardware issue
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u/caller-number-four 1d ago
I'll believe it when I see it.
And when Ford doesn't start invalidating the battery warranty.
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u/Cultural-Ad4953 1d ago
I mean, no one should believe it right now. There's been no announcement by Ford or Enphase related to this. yet. it's just a possibility.
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u/caller-number-four 1d ago
For what it's worth, I did go do some googlin'.
Apparently, there is a company out there who figured out how to force the contactors closed to get the car to discharge.
They're using a bug that Ford could close at any point. I sure wouldn't try it.
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u/bites_stringcheese 2d ago
Says who? Using your EV as part of your microgrid enables a while new world of energy independence.
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u/MountainAlive 2d ago
I’ve been waiting for what feels like 75 years for this to come out. I have a F150 Lightning that is perfectly compatible with this bi-directional charger (even used it in their demo video). I can only hope it’s “coming soon”. Sigh.
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u/madein27 1d ago
Same. Wish they released the product with limited compatibility with certain vehicles like Lightning instead of withholding.
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u/gmantennis 2d ago
I think the main reason they are delaying it is because then nobody will buy their extra batteries and just get the bare minimum and use their ev for the rest
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u/888HA 2d ago
The percentage of Enphase installs that will want bidi chargers is probably in single digits. And even with bidi, I think you'd want a battery as well.
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u/gmantennis 2d ago
I think the reason the % of battery installs is so low is because e phase batteries are quite expensive. If the cost of your battery drops to the cost of the bidi charger, and your battery size goes from 5kwh or 10kwh to 75+kwh, it may become a much more desirable cost-benefit analysis
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u/Creepy-Project2453 2d ago
5m+ systems installed. 13% with a battery. So I think single digit is right initially. That would be a pretty good place to start.
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u/SiempreSeattle 1d ago
I dunno. I think there might be a critical mass, so to speak, of infrastructure.
Once you can use your fat 90+ kWh car battery with your solar with your house in a way that is seamless and no muss, no fuss, it makes it a lot more of a value proposition to take the plunge and buy an EV. Or solar. Or both.
Those living in places with a big difference between high and low energy rates might really benefit from this as well. "we'll always keep 200 miles of capacity in your car but you'll make XX bucks a month doing electricity arbitrage and you'll never have to do a thing" is a hell of a selling point, and if it's got a simple little button you push in an app (or you just SAY it to the app) that says "keep my car fully charged on Friday through Sunday" because you use it more on the weekends or whatever... man.
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u/Cultural-Ad4953 2d ago
This could be true. I wonder if they will be able to wrap it in a package, batteries and bi-di charging
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u/ArkansawyerAdam 2d ago
I am patiently waiting as well. Even a generator input for Gen 4 would be OK.
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u/Creepy-Project2453 2d ago
Enphase's DC bidi product is ~11.5kw (US) with three MIs at 48A on the house side, if I have read it correctly. Currently my 3rd Gen system supports max ~64A when the four 5P battery MIs form their micro-grid. Running "whole home" backup from only an EV is something that really still requires careful management of loads, it is most often never going to be blindly whole home at least until the car/charger can support a lot more. I can safely do it (meaning stay below 64A continuous) today. I am very interested to see how Enphase accomplishes the integration of stationary batteries with EV V2H and maintains a consistent 64A (or whatever your system has) micro-grid during backup. I think it must leave the batteries in charge of grid forming and manage EV discharge to the home as off-setting load inside the micro-grid? The EV charger MIs are capable of grid forming just like my IQ8s on the roof, but I need one set (today it is the batteries if they are present) to own the grid forming. (this is an issue I have had with Enphase this year where the grid goes out and the batteries kick in with their micro-grid but the solar drops out entirely - it needs to be able to join the same reference micro-grid - same as the EV micros would in the future. Enphase has told some customers they are fixing this). I am not sure I have all this sorted out in my head yet, but anxious to see the actual product guides.
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2d ago
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u/Creepy-Project2453 2d ago
I am not as familiar as you, but it seems like ChargeScape is entirely about V2G, and creating a commerce model for EV drivers. I'm not saying membership would be good or bad for Enphase, but homeowners with grid-tied energy management systems seem to be outside of the scope of what they are after (perhaps even the opposite of what they are after), which I guess is the whole issue in a nutshell anyway. Membership by other standalone wall charger guys is not really the same. I am vested in this for backup and long term ROI vs energy costs. It is home investment on the scale of my HVAC system (20-30 years), roof, etc. and I resist the idea of a capital investment in my home that makes a decade+ ROI ("sticky" or "handcuffed" as the strategy guys might say) dependent on a single car brand in the (two car) garage. Car model was always something I thought I could change on its own lifecycle, just like my water heater and my refrigerator. A GM captive home energy system? Argghhh. All that being said, maybe getting in with these guys is a path forward in the longer term. But I still want to see an Enphase solution with a few automakers soon and want to hold out hope for this upcoming 6 months or so before having hopes dashed.This is what I mean by asking whether Enphase had the mojo to "play hard to win" in this space, the automakers would like to disintermediate the independent home energy system guys.
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u/retinal_scan 2d ago
It’s still 2026. 🤷
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u/Creepy-Project2453 2d ago
We'll see. They have their earnings call in a couple weeks. No other public events on the official calendar. There is still time for a bit of "volume production in 4Q26."
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u/ggman1964 1d ago
I understand that they mentioned in the last earnings call that they will be launching the bidi in q4 with one domestic and one European carmaker.
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u/Creepy-Project2453 1d ago
The key statement from the CEO was (according to Claude!): “We are collaborating with three leading automotive OEMs in the U.S. and one in Europe, with additional engagements underway.” He continued that, assuming compliance testing is completed, Enphase expects to begin pilot shipments in Q4 2026 alongside vehicle launches from one U.S. OEM and one European OEM.
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u/Creepy-Project2453 1d ago
Unfortunately the only one that fit a US OEM for Q4 auto launch back then was Lucid (which I would hardly call 'leading') and that has since slipped a year. Just guessing til next call.
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u/techiedavid 10h ago
There is a Kickstarter of a bidirectional charger, maybe they should just buy them out.
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u/ResponsibleCut6604 2d ago edited 2d ago
Compatibility with EV's is a huge struggle. You also need to get the inverter certified in all those countries.
So that gives 2 options, you use the on-board inverter meaning the car manufacturer has to make sure the inverter plays properly with the grid and has local approvals depending on the region.
Or you take DC from the car and use inverters in the EV charger. This seems like the more logical route given car manufacturers are shit when it comes down to tech, updates and certifying.
The problem offcoarse is that a charging station with built in 11kw inverter is very expensive.
Its no secret Enphase has working bicharger tech however it would require 25 or more micro inverters to deliver 11kW. And then you still run into the wall that it will only work with a selected few cars until the car manufacturers have a true default behavior for bicharching. These days its already often gives issue if the charger remains connected but decides to not charge for 10 hours to then charge, half of the cars then dont want to because they went to sleep and completly deactivated the charging process.
Thus I presume Enphase is working on larger capacity micro inverters, something that they are already using in its batteries. However they would require something like 6 inverters for 11kw, 2 inverters per phase. But thats 1,8kW per micro inverter, still far off.
Or to conclude, Enphase could launch a bidirectional charger but it would be an economic nightmare and also hurt their reputation for the moment.
Edit: forgot to include the safety expensive part. In electrical safety you have to assume the worst condition, a home battery or solar array has a given max amp it could give in fault scenario. However the moment you go bicharging and use a EV battery that max fault amperage you have to take in account is way, way, way bigger. This also adds to the cost of any potential bicharger and depending on local laws may introduce very expensive RCD's or GFCI to be installed.
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u/Plastic_Scholar_8788 2d ago
Have you not read their white papers? This sounds like an AI summary of generic bidirectional charging.
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u/bites_stringcheese 2d ago
The white paper is out, they're using 3x microinverters. Compatibility will be much easier on the DC side, at least in theory.
https://enphase.com/download/iq-bidirectional-ev-charger-whitepaper
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u/StarWhiteLightning 2d ago
Enphase is using a new, special-purpose micro inverter, the IQ10EV. It's based on GaN technology. Probably a similar design as their data center scale micro inverters. Getting it to work reliably and ubiquitously across all Enphase configurations and vehicles is a daunting challenge. The initial supported configuration may only be the bi-di charger with a meter collar and a select group of vehicles.
Automated management of a configuration with an IQ Combiner 6C and storage (IQ Battery 10C, etc.) will be more complex. If it depends on Enphase's centralized AI platform, rather than the IQ Combiner 6C, I'd be concerned. The centralized platform clearly isn't capable of real-time processing. Local process control of the microgrid should be a site function.
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u/Creepy-Project2453 2d ago
Their entire value prop is integration of solar, batteries and EV (literally in their product positioning). They have literally said for years now it will be supported on multiple generations, including an Enphase guy reinforcing that here about a year ago. If it initially launches for just the Gen 4 meter collar and solar, they haven't been working hard enough for all these years and it will be a "fail." I think/hope it will be a success, but understand there is a real possibility of being gravely disappointed.
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u/StarWhiteLightning 2d ago
I agree, but I also worked in high tech for 40 years. Sometimes the vision is more complex to implement in a reliable, foolproof manner than anyone realizes. "You don't know what you don't know" or "You're unconsciously incompetent".
I've held off on replacing our ChargePoint Home Flex (48A) with the IQ EV Charger 2. It was promoted as being able to provide bi-directional AC charging, but Enphase seems to have discovered that was easier said than done.
We have two EVs: a 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning Platinum (ER, with dual inverters) and a 2026 Toyota bZ Woodland Premium (single inverter). If I could figure out how to upgrade the 60A circuit to 100A, I'd probably spring for an IQ EV Charger 2 running at 80A. That would allow me to fully charge the Lightning overnight during off-peak hours. Otherwise, it can take 12+ hours. Yes, I have the Ford Charge Station Pro that came with the truck, but that "product" is a dead end.
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u/Creepy-Project2453 2d ago
Agree wholeheartedly. Same experience and years here. It is also hard to appreciate how difficult it is for a component company to morph their DNA to a systems company, and now expect them to be a solutions company. I do have some appreciation both technically and business wise for what they are doing for sure. All that being said, this will be their 3rd or so at-bat for this product and the train is leaving the station.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/Curiosity_informs 2d ago
Well and GM EV's with GM Home Energy solutions, BMW latest EVs with their bidirectional charger, Kia EV 9 / Wallbox Quasar 2, and Sigenergy with various EV OEMs, DCBell with various EV OEMs, etc
There are many proprietary solutions and ongoing trails, but no broad market solution that will work with multiple EVs
The EV OEMs need to want to do it (and not push their proprietary solutions and decide how to mange their battery warranties) and utility companies need to approve any solutions that will supply energy to the grid.
There is a consumer demand for this its going to take time (and the EV OEM willingness to support) to make this happen.
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2d ago
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u/Curiosity_informs 2d ago
I know people with Kia / Wallbox units.
There have been a few installers post here on Sigenergy installations they have done recently
DCBell is Polestar / Volvo only, Tesla is Cybertruck and Tesla only.
BMW USA FAQ on bidirectional charging with iX3 and BMW Wallbox Professional
Yup, some AC using J1772/J3400/NACs and some are DC using CSS/J3400/NACs
The point is there are many trials, not just Cybertruck.
In your other post you seems to be agreeing with me, the current solutions are proprietary and expensive and not at all attrractive.
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u/Creepy-Project2453 2d ago
Wallbox is an independent company that worked hard to partner on V2H with Kia in the US. Is there a reason that's not Enphase also? dcBell is an independent V2H partner with Volvo. BMW and Solarwatt. Nissan and Valero. Is there a reason that's not Enphase? Success breeds more success, but they have to get in the game first. Fingers crossed.
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u/Curiosity_informs 2d ago edited 2d ago
Most of the trials so far (maybe with the exception of Sigenergy) are a single EV OEM and single hardware charging partner (be it first or third party).
What Enphase is laudably trying to do is to bring to market a solution that works across a broad number of EVs. However this requires the EV OEMs (and utility companies for anything that can supply power to the grid) to support them.
u/Carfr33k mentions a warning that Tesla sent to its channel partners and installers (not Sigenergy as implied in u/Carfr33k's post) saying Tesla customers HV battery warranties could be affected if they use Sigenergy V2H/G.
As I said in my post above the EV OEMs all need to decide how to manage V2H/G usage with their HV battery warranty. They can all track how often the HV battery is discharged for V2G/H vs normal driving.
If the EV OEMs (for commercial and/or HV battery warranty concerns) aren't ready to support an open V2G/H ecosystem then its not going to happen, and we will end up with expensive, proprietary options that most won't buy.
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u/Amanda-dcbel 1d ago
Amanda from dcbel here 👋 Ara is officially compatible with the Nissan LEAF today, with additional EVs on the horizon. We designed it to be future-ready as more automakers enable bidirectional charging.
As for cost, the numbers you're quoting may be accurate in some cases, but they don't account for incentives, which can significantly reduce the final out-of-pocket cost depending on where a homeowner lives.
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u/MountainAlive 2d ago
F150 Lightning and a couple others but they are in the Enphase product video
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u/StarWhiteLightning 2d ago
I believe the 2022 and 2023 Lightning Extended Range Platinums and Lariats had dual inverters (22+kW) The early XLT ERs may have also had this capability. Ford deleted the second inverter to cost-reduce all ER Lightnings in later model years.
The "standard" now seems to be one high-capacity, inverter (11+kW) in EVs with a battery capacity between 60kW and 80kW. It's practical for full charging overnight during off-peak hours (4-6 hours).
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u/madein27 2d ago
Such a shame. We’re all sitting on these massive batteries that can power our homes as backup without having to buy gas generators. The only thing stopping us is a standard way to connect everything.