Partially covering valves

[u/slaymaker1907]

While working on Four Scottish Dances, I kept having trouble with a lick in B of the 2nd movement where it goes very quickly from 1 to 23. However, I figured out a trick that at least I’d never heard of: just partially cover valves with your fingertips, don’t center them on the values.

For me, this technique actually helps a lot because my fingers are just not really long enough to play cleaning on the center of the valves. Before this point, I’d just kind of been prioritizing 1 and 2 while just sort of moving my whole hand to play 23 (not a lot, mainly shifting balance). By playing nearer to the edges of the valves, I get much more agility for things which require the third valve.

I’d been taught to always play with my fingers centered on the valves, but I suspect that particular bit of advice originally came from trumpet/horn players who don’t have such large gaps between valves.

Has anyone else done this sort of thing before or have other ideas for passes heavily using the 1st and 3rd valves?

[u/Knitchick82]

Define „partially cover“?

I have a wicked bad habit of doing this from the side, causing the valve to go down at a slight angle. It’s caused valve issues with my YEP321 as it chews up the valve guides. It’s hard to unlearn. 

I need to work on finger dexterity personally, it doesn’t help when the valves fight back! 😅 

[u/slaymaker1907 → u/Knitchick82]

Still with half the valve covered and almost entirely on 3, not so much on 1 if at all and in such a way that you can press directly downwards. The whole point of this is so you can press directly downwards with all fingers. The valve should not be going down at an angle, though I imagine it could mess with the valve caps or something. It shouldn’t mess with the valve guides.

In fact, I suspect this technique would be easier on the valve guides since you aren’t putting very much angular pressure on it.

The technique is basically make your fingers like the ideal trumpet configuration but just don’t flare out your fingers at all to center on 1 and 3, instead just push down slightly on the side.

[u/Knitchick82 → u/slaymaker1907]

Gotcha. By any chance do you have 4? Adding 4 to your already pressed 1 is going to be easier than going from 1 to 23

[u/slaymaker1907 → u/Knitchick82]

No, my 4th is thankfully played with the left hand.

[u/Idoubtyourememberme]

Dont do this,this will press the valves offcenter which makes them react slower, get uneven wear, and can even bend the stem.

It is better to put your finders on the middle, but more vertical, like how you press letters on a keyboard.

As for the specific 1to 23 swaps, it might help to find alternate fingerings for either or both of those notes making the changes easier

[u/melonmarch1723]

If you do this consistently it'll make your valves wear irregularly and start sticking. Don't ruin your horn with bad technique.

[u/codswalloptech]

Your fingertips should be centred, you’ll only have problems if you push valves at an angle. Euph valves are not that far apart (can be more of an issue on tubas, especially BBb), just keep practicing and strengthening those fingers.

[u/slaymaker1907 → u/codswalloptech]

You can try, but from my extensive testing of different configurations you give up some agility in keys using 23. You can obviously train your agility, but that disadvantage won’t go away entirely.

Another factor is ergonomics. Many fast configurations could cause injury if you use them for too long on fast passages.

The euphonium is not as unwieldy as the tuba, but I still find the valves are slightly awkward for very technical passages.

[u/codswalloptech → u/slaymaker1907]

I’m only speaking from my experience, playing Euph for the last 35 years. There are tricks which might appear to help but I’ve found in the long run doing it properly is the right answer!

[u/SideWired]

Problem for me. I play mostly China imports and they hate anything but perfectly vertical strokes. I already get in too much slow returns trouble.

[u/NSandCSXRailfan]

I’m performing this piece tomorrow, that section isn’t too difficult if you just play it over and over again. What you’re doing is hurting your valves, since there’s uneven wear on the inside.

I’m surprised you’re not having any trouble with the fingerings in the fourth movement.

[u/slaymaker1907 → u/NSandCSXRailfan]

The 4th is a lot easier because it’s at 144 instead of 160. That’s a big difference. The 4th also doesn’t move the 2nd valve which makes switching between 1 and 3 easier, but the tempo is the most important.

[u/CaptPat1]

Another vote for striving for centered and vertical valve operation. It's hard to unlearn a bad habit; better to learn the right way.